Just off-topic: Not sure, on what basis this super slow computing speed is derived from? Will you pls be kind enough to provide a citation to it, I couldnt get one!
Regards.
Mathematics In Scripture?
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Regards.
And of course there is the fact that Raagmala comes after the seal of Guru Gobind Singh, with many contending that it is not genuinely a part of Guru Granth Sahibji.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sanatan-sikhism/26891-competing-perspectives-on-raagmala.html
Dear Mattquatsi,
<?"urn:
fficeffice" /><o> </o>
We don’t have nay mathematic in SGGS. It gives us the way to live life. In bani we learn how to respect others and how we can serve others.
What you wrote is WOW. Any one can do what you have done. What does it teach us?
Every thing can be explained in mathematic. All other science is from math.
<o> </o>
If you want to look up math or other science then you should look in Hindu holy books. They are full of science if you can under stand science.
If you want do discuss Christianity I will be glad to discuss it with you. But this is not the place to discuss it. Send me message with your email.
<o> </o>
Seeker3k
<?"urn:
fficeffice" /><o> </o>We don’t have nay mathematic in SGGS. It gives us the way to live life. In bani we learn how to respect others and how we can serve others.
What you wrote is WOW. Any one can do what you have done. What does it teach us?
Every thing can be explained in mathematic. All other science is from math.
<o
> </o>If you want to look up math or other science then you should look in Hindu holy books. They are full of science if you can under stand science.
If you want do discuss Christianity I will be glad to discuss it with you. But this is not the place to discuss it. Send me message with your email.
<o
> </o>Seeker3k
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Seeker3K ji,
Guru Fateh.
You write:
Why is this forum not the place to discuss Christianity or any other religion?
Can you elaborate and shed some light behind your assertion and reasoning?
The fact is that we do have interfaith section in this forum and Christianity is already being discussed in the following thread with Mattquatsi ji.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/chris...rd-comparisons-sikh-scripture.html#post126797
I would urge you to participate in it and educate us with your contribution and input.
Thanks & regards
Tejwant Singh
Guru Fateh.
You write:
Pardon my ignorance, but I am a bit confused by your assertion.
Why is this forum not the place to discuss Christianity or any other religion?
Can you elaborate and shed some light behind your assertion and reasoning?
The fact is that we do have interfaith section in this forum and Christianity is already being discussed in the following thread with Mattquatsi ji.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/chris...rd-comparisons-sikh-scripture.html#post126797
I would urge you to participate in it and educate us with your contribution and input.
Thanks & regards
Tejwant Singh
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Special thanks to respected forum member Tejwant Singh for his comments above. SPN not only permits but encourages inter-faith dialogs and does have a forum section which is rich with articles going back to the very beginnings of SPN.
Interfaith Dialogues
There are also sections in Interfaith Dialogs for discussion of 12 different religions.
In fact one of the motivations for the birth of this forum was to provide a place for interfaith discussion and comparative essays. There are also times when it makes sense to have some religious comparison in threads that are not in Interfaith Dialogs. This thread is a good example because it considers mathematical structure in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and the inspiration for the initial questions came from scriptures of Christianity. As long as the Sikh faith is not undermined, as long as Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not undermined, and as long as proselytizing is not going on, there is no problem.
Interfaith Dialogues
There are also sections in Interfaith Dialogs for discussion of 12 different religions.
In fact one of the motivations for the birth of this forum was to provide a place for interfaith discussion and comparative essays. There are also times when it makes sense to have some religious comparison in threads that are not in Interfaith Dialogs. This thread is a good example because it considers mathematical structure in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and the inspiration for the initial questions came from scriptures of Christianity. As long as the Sikh faith is not undermined, as long as Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not undermined, and as long as proselytizing is not going on, there is no problem.
SSA,<?"urn:fficeffice" />
Originally quoted by Narayanjot Kaur ji
All I was asking was for your opinion of those two paragraphs as I continue to be ambivalent, and don't know what to make of them. Your opinion is still welcome.
Yes I totally agree with these both paragraphs. The two way effect of music cannot be denied. You have put it very nicely in these two paragraphs. Yes the whole idea revolves around the “resonance” and specially “acoustic resonance”. That is the tendency of a sound system to absorb more energy when it is forced or driven at a frequency that matches its own natural frequency of vibration. As you have explained same thing happens to the human (living creature) minds also. During listening to the music when acoustic resonance takes place, when the frequency of vibration of any particular musical note or set of notes matches the frequency of the vibrations produces by mind ,then a great resonance occurs, that is the state of mind when the notes or the word flow directly to the inner mind. That is the state of mind which is termed as “ Beta stage of mind” by mind control experts, that is the state of Manan (a Sanskrit word) came in SGGS ji as “ Manney” ( maney surat hovey man budh) or let’s say that’s the stage of mind which is “Ikagarta”. So the acoustic resonance is very important part of music especially sacred music.
Now let’s see what gurus have given us as gurbani. (I had tried to explain same in my essay at www.likhari.org). Gurbani divided into 31 ragas and also the statement “ kalyug meh kirtan pardhana”. This statement of guruji may have the logic of resonance behind it. Please note that Bani cannot be written in raags. Bani can be sung in raags. Bani is not written in ragas, bani in written in different poetic styles. But has been classified into 31 raaga based on the “Ras bhav” (prakriti) because same as a writing has a particular RAS ( prakriti) the ragas also have the specific prakritis. So based on the “ras bhav” ( prakriti) of the bani it might has been divided into 31 raagas. The set of notes of different ragas will produce the different frequency of vibrations depending upon the ras bhav of the bani, and when resonance will be in effect that bani will travel to the deeper most layers of mind and will have permanent effect on the mind. Then only the surat will meet the prime source (God)
Singing contains two parts, lai and taal ( tune and rythem). Supposing the Lai (the tune being the most important part for creating resonance) when guru ji divided the bani in ragas the most important part of Tune was taken care of. But still, as the remaining part Taal (rhythm) was remaining. I believe to complete the process in full parts of gurbani were specified by Ghar (rhythm) also. It seems that when the music is created in particular raag and is being sung in particular ghar (rythem) it might be creating the best possible resonance with the minds of the listeners. WOW the fine scientific occurrences like acoustic resonance has been taking care of while compiling gurbani. When I think about this my head bows further towards the feet of satguru.
But are we singing the gurbani as detailed (raag wise + ghar wise) in SGGS ji ?. If not, then why? If not then why our beloved gurus had divided the gurbani on basis of raga and ghars? Seems as, if I was carried away by emotions and gone off the track, but could not sustain myself.
May waheguru bless us with the power to abide by the instructions put up by gurus in gurbani.
Roopsidhu
fficeffice" />Originally quoted by Narayanjot Kaur ji
All I was asking was for your opinion of those two paragraphs as I continue to be ambivalent, and don't know what to make of them. Your opinion is still welcome.
Yes I totally agree with these both paragraphs. The two way effect of music cannot be denied. You have put it very nicely in these two paragraphs. Yes the whole idea revolves around the “resonance” and specially “acoustic resonance”. That is the tendency of a sound system to absorb more energy when it is forced or driven at a frequency that matches its own natural frequency of vibration. As you have explained same thing happens to the human (living creature) minds also. During listening to the music when acoustic resonance takes place, when the frequency of vibration of any particular musical note or set of notes matches the frequency of the vibrations produces by mind ,then a great resonance occurs, that is the state of mind when the notes or the word flow directly to the inner mind. That is the state of mind which is termed as “ Beta stage of mind” by mind control experts, that is the state of Manan (a Sanskrit word) came in SGGS ji as “ Manney” ( maney surat hovey man budh) or let’s say that’s the stage of mind which is “Ikagarta”. So the acoustic resonance is very important part of music especially sacred music.
Now let’s see what gurus have given us as gurbani. (I had tried to explain same in my essay at www.likhari.org). Gurbani divided into 31 ragas and also the statement “ kalyug meh kirtan pardhana”. This statement of guruji may have the logic of resonance behind it. Please note that Bani cannot be written in raags. Bani can be sung in raags. Bani is not written in ragas, bani in written in different poetic styles. But has been classified into 31 raaga based on the “Ras bhav” (prakriti) because same as a writing has a particular RAS ( prakriti) the ragas also have the specific prakritis. So based on the “ras bhav” ( prakriti) of the bani it might has been divided into 31 raagas. The set of notes of different ragas will produce the different frequency of vibrations depending upon the ras bhav of the bani, and when resonance will be in effect that bani will travel to the deeper most layers of mind and will have permanent effect on the mind. Then only the surat will meet the prime source (God)
Singing contains two parts, lai and taal ( tune and rythem). Supposing the Lai (the tune being the most important part for creating resonance) when guru ji divided the bani in ragas the most important part of Tune was taken care of. But still, as the remaining part Taal (rhythm) was remaining. I believe to complete the process in full parts of gurbani were specified by Ghar (rhythm) also. It seems that when the music is created in particular raag and is being sung in particular ghar (rythem) it might be creating the best possible resonance with the minds of the listeners. WOW the fine scientific occurrences like acoustic resonance has been taking care of while compiling gurbani. When I think about this my head bows further towards the feet of satguru.
But are we singing the gurbani as detailed (raag wise + ghar wise) in SGGS ji ?. If not, then why? If not then why our beloved gurus had divided the gurbani on basis of raga and ghars? Seems as, if I was carried away by emotions and gone off the track, but could not sustain myself.
May waheguru bless us with the power to abide by the instructions put up by gurus in gurbani.
Roopsidhu
Last edited by a moderator:
SSA
originalli quoted by Narayanjot ji
All I was asking was for your opinion of those two paragraphs as I continue to be ambivalent, and don't know what to make of them. Your opinion is still welcome. Thanks.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
I have already posted my reply. But for a moment when I read the word "ambivalent" I was not able to understand in which context it was written. Any how, please do write your views about my post
roopsidhu
originalli quoted by Narayanjot ji
All I was asking was for your opinion of those two paragraphs as I continue to be ambivalent, and don't know what to make of them. Your opinion is still welcome. Thanks.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
I have already posted my reply. But for a moment when I read the word "ambivalent" I was not able to understand in which context it was written. Any how, please do write your views about my post
roopsidhu
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
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Here is what I found in resonance with this topic.
Secret Teachings of All Ages: The Pythagorean Theory of Music and Color
Secret Teachings of All Ages: The Pythagorean Theory of Music and Color
roopsidhu ji
I can't really voice an opinion because this is an area which I do not have technical knowledge.
So intuitively it seems right. We know that kirtan has this effect from individual and personal experience. The musical organization makes that possible, makes a connection with the deepest parts of the mind possible. So I have to nod my head in agreement with you. Now it would be great if the ideas expressed in your comments could be expanded, elaborated into more research and investigation.
I can't really voice an opinion because this is an area which I do not have technical knowledge.
So intuitively it seems right. We know that kirtan has this effect from individual and personal experience. The musical organization makes that possible, makes a connection with the deepest parts of the mind possible. So I have to nod my head in agreement with you. Now it would be great if the ideas expressed in your comments could be expanded, elaborated into more research and investigation.
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NamJap ji
The article you have just linked to the discussion is fascinating from beginning to end, and I think there is some truth to it. Modern investigations in the area of physics have examined connections between resonance and changes in physical form.
The article you have just linked to the discussion is fascinating from beginning to end, and I think there is some truth to it. Modern investigations in the area of physics have examined connections between resonance and changes in physical form.
Numerology is originally a hebrew construct and can only make sense with the Hebrew alphabet. Each letter indeed stands for a number so it is possible to find meaning in an equation or a mathematical formula. Protestants took much interest by the Kabbale (a set of mystic and esoteric knowledge), and tried to apply Hebrew conepts and principles to the New Testament to find some hidden meaning. The "epta" thing is indeed very important. In Jewish tradition there is something sacred or meaningful about the number 7. For some, all this is just plain superstition while others see it as a path to mystic ie. hidden and higher knowledge. I don't think we can just borrow concepts from one culture and apply them to another and expect any sereous result. Later I will make a demonstration of numerology using our friend Mattqatsi but now I have to go. I thought people gave some time to this thread so it would be a way to conclude in case our friend doesn't show up. I hope he is ok. He seemed very stressed out.
Dear Polpol Ji
I don't belive in numerology or significant numbers...9 is another as it is the highest single number and features in eastern culture including Buddhism
But I am intrigued by your forthcoming demonstration and look forward to it!!!
I don't belive in numerology or significant numbers...9 is another as it is the highest single number and features in eastern culture including Buddhism
But I am intrigued by your forthcoming demonstration and look forward to it!!!
Here is a simple demonstration of numerology: Suppose we are in the middle ages and I read what Mattqatsi wrote and I have a feeling he is going heretic about the Bible. So I want to know more about him but I only know his name and his date of birth. First, I take his name and change the letters of his name into numbers according to A=1, b=2,etc. This will give us 13-1-20-20-17-1-20-19-9. I add them up and I come up with 1230. The real sum is 120 but I'm a monk (devinely inspired), so I chose to write 30 as the sum of the first coloumn which is right, instead of keeping the 3 for the left coloumn, though I also added 3 to that coloumn as we should do in an ordinary addition. So his name is narrowed down to 1-2-3-0...we drop 0 because it's just "nothing" and I see that his weird name in letters has a nice sound, simple, nothing to worry about...just a simple 1,2,3 kind of a guy. I now add up these 3 numbers and it gives 6...oh!?
Now let's look at the year of his birth. 1987. Do you see something? His name goes up from 1 to 2 to 3 and the year of his birth goesn down from 9 to 8 to 7 or if we prefer it goes up if we read from right to left, which is ok too. I left out the 1 because I had left out the 0 in his name and because I want to keep a set of 3 numbers. Now if I add 9-8-7, I come up with 24 and 2+4=6...oh! oh!?
Let's continue. I notice that between 3 (the last number of his name), and 7 (the last number of his birth year, there is 4-5-6 and if I add them it gives 15 and 1+5=6! OMG!!!
So we have 6 for his name, 6 in between and 6 for his birth year. 666, the number of the Beast in the Bible. If I were a monk in the middle ages that would be enough to have our poor friend accused of sorcery and be burned alive! Luckily, he could defend himself since I did not consider the day and the month of his birth... the tenth of the sixth month and so we add 6 + 1 (drop the 0), which equals 7 (that's better) and he could also argue that I should have kept the 1 in 1987 whose sum is 25, resulting into 7 and not 6.
So what can we make of all this? Nothing, absolutely NOTHING Ha! Ha! If we were real Kabbalists, who knows, but we're not and that's the point I wanted to make.
Now let's look at the year of his birth. 1987. Do you see something? His name goes up from 1 to 2 to 3 and the year of his birth goesn down from 9 to 8 to 7 or if we prefer it goes up if we read from right to left, which is ok too. I left out the 1 because I had left out the 0 in his name and because I want to keep a set of 3 numbers. Now if I add 9-8-7, I come up with 24 and 2+4=6...oh! oh!?
Let's continue. I notice that between 3 (the last number of his name), and 7 (the last number of his birth year, there is 4-5-6 and if I add them it gives 15 and 1+5=6! OMG!!!
So we have 6 for his name, 6 in between and 6 for his birth year. 666, the number of the Beast in the Bible. If I were a monk in the middle ages that would be enough to have our poor friend accused of sorcery and be burned alive! Luckily, he could defend himself since I did not consider the day and the month of his birth... the tenth of the sixth month and so we add 6 + 1 (drop the 0), which equals 7 (that's better) and he could also argue that I should have kept the 1 in 1987 whose sum is 25, resulting into 7 and not 6.
So what can we make of all this? Nothing, absolutely NOTHING Ha! Ha! If we were real Kabbalists, who knows, but we're not and that's the point I wanted to make.
HAH HAH HAH
That's brilliant!
And worrying too....perhaps we have been infiltrated by the dark side.....
I posted on a similar thread before that given enough data volume, it's easy to divine patterns and meaning where none exist
But in this case, the source document is one that has been chopped and changed and translated and edited numerous times. How could there possibly be any retained pattern from the original greek/hebrew/coptic texts to the English text (of which there are also multiple versions) now!
Excellent post!
That's brilliant!
And worrying too....perhaps we have been infiltrated by the dark side.....
I posted on a similar thread before that given enough data volume, it's easy to divine patterns and meaning where none exist
But in this case, the source document is one that has been chopped and changed and translated and edited numerous times. How could there possibly be any retained pattern from the original greek/hebrew/coptic texts to the English text (of which there are also multiple versions) now!
Excellent post!
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