May Sikhs Eat Kosher Foods Other Than Meat?

[spnadmin]

Randip ji

Why is there no prohibition against kosher meat in the Rehat Maryada? Why add, or make things more complicated than they really have to be?

All we are talking about is a sharp knife and a sanitary abatoire. No extras. The kosher slaughter is totally different from halal slaughter. This is a fact, not my opinion.

Therefore, it follows logically. Kosher foods are permitted.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

To take the matter to its logical extreme, if we are going to split hairs (not a very Sikh thing to do on a couple of levels!), :noticekudi:

all fresh produce is kosher by default. As I write I am eating fresh mango and strawberry. "Nuff said! peacesignkaur

 

[Ambarsaria]

Randip ji

Why is there no prohibition against kosher meat in the Rehat Maryada? Why add, or make things more complicated than they really have to be?

All we are talking about is a sharp knife and a sanitary abatoire. No extras. The kosher slaughter is totally different from halal slaughter. This is a fact, not my opinion.

Therefore, it follows logically. Kosher foods are permitted.

spnadmin ji I am not knowledgeable on Kosher meat processing. I saw the slaughter example in the movie Earthlings and the captivated animal had a cut to the neck and the head was not severed. It was allowed to bleed and slowly die. Isn't that conflicting with Jhatka method? I do not know if the "sacrificial" part is also in Kosher slaughter as none was shown in the scene I referenced.

With packaging in the meat industry we are so removed from the actual slaughter, I find it much of a moot point personally. If playing a tape in a chicken slaughter house makes it Halal, to me that shows example of shallowness of thinking that our Gurus countered many a times in their travels and Gurbani for various practices.

Perhaps we may want to call it,

"Fools who wrangle over Jhatka and Kosher"
​

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Kosher foods seem to be just clean vegetables, dairy and other products. So no reason I see of any issue.

For Kosher Slaughtering the below so to me it does not represent Jhatka. Then again the SRM only states "Kutha" and it has been defined as meat prepared the Islamic way including sacrificial aspects, sacrificial aspects for slaughter are not part of Kosher.

Kosher slaughtering

The mammals and birds that may be eaten must be slaughtered in accordance with Jewish law. (Deut. 12:21). We may not eat animals that died of natural causes (Deut. 14:21) or that were killed by other animals. In addition, the animal must have no disease or flaws in the organs at the time of slaughter. These restrictions do not apply to fish; only to the flocks and herds (Num. 11:22).
Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Cheit-Teit. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.
Another advantage of shechitah is that it ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher.
The shochet is not simply a butcher; he must be a pious man, well-trained in Jewish law, particularly as it relates to kashrut. In smaller, more remote communities, the rabbi and the shochet were often the same person.



http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm#Certification

Fruits and Vegetables

All fruits and vegetables are kosher (but see the note regarding Grape Products below). However, bugs and worms that may be found in some fruits and vegetables are not kosher. Fruits and vegetables that are prone to this sort of thing should be inspected to ensure that they contain no bugs. Leafy vegetables like lettuce and herbs and flowery vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower are particularly prone to bugs and should be inspected carefully. Strawberries and raspberries can also be problematic. The Star-K kosher certification organization has a very nice overview of the fruits and vegetables prone to this and the procedure for addressing it in each type.
http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm#Certification

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

Ambarsaria ji

Yes, Kosher slaughter is not the same as jatkha. However, Sikhs are not required to eat jatkha. Nor are they forbidden kosher. The eternal problem comes into any thread about meat when we confound the discussion of what is permitted/not permitted with the cruelty to animals issue.

If one is really serious about the cruelties of slaughter, then that requires a different thread.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Judaism is a religion that delights in God's Law and interpretation of that Law, both Torah (written Law - the first 5 books of the Bible) and Talmud (oral tradition). Interpretation is often very much hair-splitting by using a type of argument, the pilpul. This method is quite interesting and worth some research. :noticekudi:

However, Sikhi takes a different approach. As I understand it, we generally look at a rule and ask, "What is the purpose of this rule?" and base a decision on that. :sippingcoffee: icecreammunda

So...what is the reason we (Amritdharis) are forbidden to eat halal meat? Is it because of the disinclination to follow the Muslim way or because of the Muslim blessing and/or the sacrificial nature of the killing? Or is it because of the cruelty to the animal? I think the answer to these questions would settle things. (It won't, of course, because we Sikhs enjoy constant turmoil, but that's another topic.):swordfight-kudiyan:

As for, is it ok for (Amritdhari) Sikhs to eat kosher food other than meat? The answer is YES.

About kosher meat, I don't know and I really don't care. I am a vegetarian and I have other things on my mind. japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

mai Ji..you asked..,,<<<<So...what is the reason we (Amritdharis) are forbidden to eat halal meat? Is it because of the disinclination to follow the Muslim way or because of the Muslim blessing and/or the sacrificial nature of the killing???>>>

The answer is in my last para above.

Its NOT 'disinclination..to follow the Muslim WAY..." Its becasue to the Mulsims there is NO OTHER WAY..for ALL !! IF they Rule/are in majority..they make LAWS to ensure everyone FOLLOWS their WAY....if they are in a minority..they DEMAND they be given their WAY !! No room for dissent/others ways...Guru TEG bahadur Ji gave His LIFE for Right to DISSENT..each follow his own way...Guru Gobind Singh Ji CODIFIED that RIGHT in Banning HALLAL specifically as that is ONE MAJOR WAY muslims "slaughter the right to dissent"..and GGS said NO WAY will my Sikhs be "slaughtered" !!and deprived of their RIGHTS. Thats what JHATKA is..really...a RIGHT TO BE DIFFERENT...which is DENIED by LAW in all Muslim Countries...even TODAY.

 

[Ambarsaria]

I am good to go tomorrow to have some "Kentucky Fried Chicken" (unhealthy as anything) but tasty occasionally.

I just hope that the Halal music tape got stuck when my chicken(s) was slaughtered. I wonder if they have Halal tape inspectors at various meat processing plants :interestedmunda:. I never heard that production lines are shut and meat was destroyed when a tape or music player got stuck. I feel for Muslims who ate all this Haram (non-Halal) meat.

I wonder which method the chickens prefer. Perhaps neither as they like "Veggans".

Sorry just having some fun to see how much of rubbish logic of way way back for the three religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) falls apart under rigor of logical testing.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ishna]

Totally off-topic but Ambarsaria ji: in Australia, one of the biggest suppliers of chicken to supermarkets, chicken take-aways, KFC restaurants here, slaughters all their chicken the halal way. I asked them recently by email, and followed up with an email to the Islamic Council of Australia. The only way they can be certified is to have all Muslim slaughtermen, to use sharp knives, to be supervised properly in case any of the machinery stops working, and they must say Allah Akbar every single time a chicken has it's throat cut.

The funny part is, as much as so many "white Australians" will moan and groan about Muslims, they a) don't know their beloved chicken wings on the BBQ are halal and b) wouldn't actually care!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I would say no.

The reason ebing is that the Sikh view would be that t is needless purification. How can you purify that which has been created by God?

The problem as I see it..people havent read SGGS !! The SGGS is the one and only Granth that sets out the BASICS from the word GO !!!
EKOANGKAAR...............and then MOOL MANTAR....draws the Image of the Akal Purakh..the GOAL that is to be achieved...aimed at..........and then 1429 pages of explanation...methodology ...personal experiences on HOW to achieve that GOAL....NO longish preambles..no beating aroudn the Bush..tall tales..wasting time...STRAIGHT TO THE POINT.

This GURBANI RUBBISHES the idea of fake "purity" sucham koshers and hallals etc etc.... The Milk is NOT "pure/sucham" becasue the calf has tasted it....the Flower is NOT "pure/sucham"..because the Butterfy/Moth has sat on it and tasted of its nectar..the HONEY is not PURE because it is REGURGITATED by the BEES ( essentially VOMIT of the Bees)....the Water is not "pure/sucham? becasue there are billions of germs bacteria etc living IN IT..everything is being CONSTANTLY RECYCLED....being CONSUMED...digested...and EXCRETED....what do you think YOGHURT is ??? .so WHAT Kosher..what Hallal ?? THese are ALL MAN MADE "restrictions"...for MEN. Nothing whatsoever to do wth the CREATOR or of any help in Achieving the GOAL of MERGER as set out in the Mool mantar !!

GURU SAHIB set out to LIBERATE US...HIS SIKHS from all such SILLY man made restrictions and set us free to FLY HIGH..but alas..we look around us..people in CHAINS..and YEARN to wear those chains around our necks..our ankles..and be FETTERED....just like Slaves !!!! Its YOUR CHOICE..to FOLLOW the GURU..or the RABBI/.....IMAM...whatever...I wont becasue i got better things to do....more importnat things than this..kosher hallal splitting of hairs, sharp knives not knicked..not this not that..all blood out or few drops not out yet..blah blah blah...what a load of rubbish that sounds so out of place in the SGGS Context....Apologies JIOS !!!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

HAAK PRAYA NANAKA us soor us gayeh....TO Guur nanak Ji sahib..the PORK and BEEF are not meat of the Cow or Pig..BUT the HAAK..the RIGHTS of OTHERS ...To USURP another;s RIGHTS..is equivalent to eating pork and beef respectively.........BUT "RIGHTS" are difficult..pork/beef is so easy to identify....!!!thats why everyoen rushes forward to avoid pork/beef....BUT when the RIGHTS of others are being TRAMPLED..the beef eaters and the pork consumers slink away with lowered ehads..and mutter..iTs NOT my buisness !!! GURU NANAK JI didnt slink away...he faced babar...and the Pandit and the maulvi..and called them Rajjeh Sheehn Mukaddam KUTTEH. Rulers are Lions and Judges DOGS. To defend RIGHTS of others is KOSHER and more Hallal for a SIKH than a piece of food....GURU TEG BAHADUR JI gave His HEAD for that !!!