Naam Jap, Simran And Naam Simran

[Harry Haller]

Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea

A collective noun names a group of two or more persons, places, things, or ideas

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

HARRY HALLAR Ji,
Very Good.
Now try to know the grammer of the word Guru.
You can see that this word "Guru" in Gurmukhi script is written with a matra of Dulaekad(two lines under the letter R of the word Gur) This is the reason I prefer to write this word Guru as GuRoo.

Now you should understand that in Gurbani any NOUN word with two lines under its last letter is a COLLECTIVE NOUN (for representing two things together).

I would like you first to get yourself confirmed for this.We can proceed later on as I want to go slow so that you can develop the correct understanding in your own style.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

Prakashji

Completely with you so far 100%, carry on ji

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

HARRY HALLAR Ji,
Thanks for your confirmation,

Now you can also see a word Gur with a matra of Aukad(word with a singleline under the letter R) so this is simple NOUN word.(representing someting single)
(You can also note that in English version the word Gur with matra of Aukad does not exist as the indication of this matra is not there.) This is a major mistakein English.)

So I write this word Gur with a matra of Aukad as Guru.The grammer of this word is very crucial for the whole of understanding of Gurbani.This word Guru is NOUN as well as COLLECTIVE NOUN depending upon the context of its use.(This you can learn gradually as this is really most important to understand.
All Noun/Cllective Nounwords as SINGULAR and,

Therefore the word Gur is PLURAL(for representing more than two things together..)

Therefore all the NOUN/ADJECTIVE words in Gurbani are visible in the above pattern of Grammer.This is the Uniqueness of Gurbani grammer.

So try to grasp this from Gurmukhi version of Gurbani.

With best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga

Ifyou have understood this then we can proceed for the grammer of CREATOR in Gurbani.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Though "Learned"
"Ignorance" is bliss


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Harry Haller]

proceed Prakashji, I am completely with it so far,

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

HARRY HALLAR ji,
I think having grasped the basics of Gurbani grammer you can see yourself how the references for the CREATOR are COLLECTIVE NOUN.
Now look at the grammer of the word GOD which is not a Collective Noun so this makes the difference in using the word GOD for CREATOR in context of Gurbani.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Luckysingh]

What is Naam and what is Simran??
This is a question on the minds of many. I find that many threads start on such topics but seem to omit explanation in lay terms. However they contain good appropriate references to the Guru Granth Sahib ji but don't always emphasize on the connection.
I will try to explain, what my translation and understanding is to the above relative to this thread that should help anyone new to this to make more sense of it an hopefully gain better understanding.
Remember, this is no theory, but simply my intepretation that some may find useful.
If other members could also post their intepretations and explanations, then we can all progress and learn.


Naam is the word of the lord or creator or it can be an expression for the lord and his presence. Let me explain,- Naam is actually within us. It is something within us at and before birth, now and even after we die.
- We know that we came into this world empty with nothing attached and we will die and leave empty with nothing attached except the Naam.It is the only thing to go with us.
Try and think that Naam operates in our subconscious mind. Even before we are born in the womb this part of the subconscious is present and operating.
We know that the body is made up of many many cells that make tissues that make organs that all function throughout the body and keep it all functioning, active and alive, this is very much granted and automatic throughout our lives. All these cells have their own fuctions and know to do this or that until they die and new ones regenerate. Biologists and scientists understand all the mechanisms involved with their function.
But, these minute cells each containing a nucleus,-

-How does it know from initiation what to do and when ?
Where does the command and conditioning come from ??
This is not known from any textbooks, just as no textbook knows where the universe finishes or ends!!
-The answer is Naam.
The naam that operates in our subconscious mind is what operates and instructs the first DNA and nucleus. It has been there since we were in the womb and is present now and will be there after we die to instruct the cells to decompose etc.. This subconscious is the only thing we stay attached to.All our bodily and cellular processes work because of the presence of Naam. Since our birth we have taken for granted functioning of all parts of our body.

Naam is consciousness- This is important to remember, as quantum physics even postulates now that the whole universe is itself consciousness! Remember,-He is Karta Purkh-The Guru Granth Sahib Ji explains that the Whole Universe Functions because of HIS Presence.-
So, where is this connection with our consciousness and Naam, and why aren't we aware of it or feel it ??
The answer is that we lose this connection because of attachments and the 5 thieves. The main one being haumai or EGO. Because of the presence of ego the connection to naam and consciousness gets very clouded. The Maya further keeps the Mind in doubt by creating illusions. Our path towards re-connection starts with knowing the reality and setting aside the illusions through Guru Granth Sahib Ji's words.
Then to LIVE GURBANI by dwelling on the meanings, reciting it and reshaping our mind with the intention to remove the nasty hold of Maya.
We LIVE GURBANI when accepting our Divine Origin with the principles of living that are made clear in Gurbani and when this is absorbed, consumed, actioned or imbibed, then we get the real FEEL. Simultaneously doing Simran strengthens and assures this.
Through Simran we remember and get connected with Naam in our conscious awareness as well.
Simran is being repeatedly advised by Guru's word from the shabad as a mean to have Naam in life.
Simran means to remember and to keep affirming the remembrance through repetition.

The basis behind Simran is that we already have Naam connection, It's always there and has been, we've just lost the feel due to the clouding over the connection.

I didn't get infuenced by yoga or anything as such when I started simran and meditation. It was this thought of knowing that within me is a subconscious operating with naam that has all the answers, reasons, cures and control that we don't even feel connected to. So, connecting with my innerself and naam with simran and meditation, I knew would help me much more on the path to spirituality. It wasn't about finding myself within, but more of connecting with the naam ,the lord or creator within me in this way, which is also within us all.


Page 107
ਸਿਮਰਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੋਖ ਸਭਿ ਲਾਥੇ ॥
　

Simraṯ nām ḏokẖ sabẖ lāthe.
Remembering the Naam, the Name of the Lord, all sinful mistakes are erased.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਾਥੇ ॥ 　
Anṯar bāhar har parabẖ sāthe.
Inwardly and outwardly, the Lord God is always with us.
ਭੈ ਭਉ ਭਰਮੁ ਖੋਇਆ ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਦੇਖਾ ਸਭਨੀ ਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
Bẖai bẖa▫o bẖaram kẖo▫i▫ā gur pūrai ḏekẖā sabẖnī jā▫ī jī▫o. ||2||
Fear, dread and doubt have been dispelled by the Perfect Guru; now, I see God everywhere. ||2

Below is what I make of the shabad using the gurmukhi and english translation. I Apologize for any errors.

Through Simran, Naam is obtained and afflictions are removed.
The presence of Har Parabh (God) is felt within and outside by us (during Simran).
(This has happened when...)
The Guru has (first) removed fear, attractions and illusions (when by accepting Gurus teachings and spending more time on understanding Gurbani rather than reciting)
(and then during Simran) by seeing Gods presence where ever you go.
　
We have to understand and accept what is being told to us by Guru Granth Sahib Ji regarding our Divine nature and nature of Maya’s illusions.
The principle is to "FEEL the presence, accept the presence as real (even though Maya says HE is separate), you will actually Know HIS presence"
　
From page 223 is the following

ਜੈਸਾ ਸੇਵੈ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥

Jaisā sevai ṯaiso ho▫e. ||4||
They become just like the One they serve. ||4||

What one serves (in mind through thoughts and beliefs) tends to manifest"


I hope the above gives a better perspective and explanation with regards to naam simran.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Luckysingh ji thanks for your post. Some comments for discourse. I have picked some important para lead lines from your post in doing comments.

Naam is the word of the lord or creator or it can be an expression for the lord and his presence.

The naam that operates in our subconscious mind is what operates and instructs the first DNA and nucleus.

Naam is consciousness …..

The answer is that we lose this connection because of attachments and the 5 thieves.

Then to LIVE GURBANI by dwelling on the meanings, reciting it and reshaping our mind with the intention to remove the nasty hold of Maya.

Simran means to remember and to keep affirming the remembrance through repetition.

I believe you are over stressing and making complexity out of something that requires none.
If you focus on understanding you won’t need to,

• Define Naam to be a word or line
• Worry about DNA and nucleus
  • Perhaps understanding will guide that there is a creator and such is unwavering truth that prevails
• Worry about consciousness, sub-consciousness if you live the truth as is creator
• Dwell, recite, etc., if your objective is understanding
  • Understanding is not time limited, remembering is!
• Understanding expands it does not need to be re-affirmed if really understood correctly.

I note above simply to share and not to create win/lose or wise/dumb scenario. The teachings and guidance in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is much simpler and straight forward if one so sees and reads it.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Harry Haller]

Luckyji

The name, naam of the Lord is Truth. Surely by truthful living one is close to Creator

 

[Luckysingh]

Harry ji and Ambersaria ji

I address both paaji because I need to clarify that all my comments above are confined and limited within the topic.

I agree Naam is much more than we can describe, the complete truth is all things associated with creator.

Now, with reference to my post, I was not defining or giving a concept for Naam. BUT, all I was doing was giving this in relation to Naam simran. As many people often wonder and ask what is naam simran ?- This is ALL I am addressing here and within this subject is all I intended.
I hope that it seems a little clearer now, as you may have read my comments above out of context. They are all confined and within the topic of Naam Simran.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry ji and Ambersaria ji

I address both paaji because I need to clarify that all my comments above are confined and limited within the topic.

I agree Naam is much more than we can describe, the complete truth is all things associated with creator.

Now, with reference to my post, I was not defining or giving a concept for Naam. BUT, all I was doing was giving this in relation to Naam simran. As many people often wonder and ask what is naam simran ?- This is ALL I am addressing here and within this subject is all I intended.
I hope that it seems a little clearer now, as you may have read my comments above out of context. They are all confined and within the topic of Naam Simran.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

Luckyji

If you were defining or giving a concept for Naam, then that is wonderful, why should you not? In an age where entertainment passes for the brain killing pastimes that so many people 'enjoy' (including myself), then to contemplate what Naam Simram is, and put your name to it, in my mind, is a wonderful way to spend some time.

I think we turn too many of these into a competition, where we all compete to see who can come up with the most plausible explanation, and I think this is wrong. I have said in previous posts that we are all on a different path, I now believe this to be wrong, we are all on the same path, just different stages, some (including myself) frequently go backwards, but sometimes you have to go backwards to see what nugget you may have missed which is vital to the journey. I do not believe anyone has the right to correct anyone else, that is taking away their learning, their ability to absorb, their very Hukam.

I thank you for your post, I found it very interesting, my current stance is to keep things as absolutely simple as possible, thus Naam Simran to me simply means remember the truth. Any reference to Simran in the SGGS is a subject that requires contemplation, internal debate, understanding.

Gurfateh