Naam Japna

[Sikh80]

You are a sikh [my presumption],sir,. Kindly go thru. the objection raised ,if it is worth the salt. One has no right be judgemental about others unless one is sure as to what one states. It is immaterail if One quotes kabir ji or not. Guru Sahibs have quoted "Prahalad' and 'Hrinkashyap' that would not be heard by christians. You seem to be a sikh. Make your soul understand sikhi. Rest can be forgiven for ignorance. But not a sikhi worth a dime. Pl. let yourself have the privelege that U r entitled to. It is only up to u.It is not very important if I post my views or in books that sell very well evenin US.

You would be a sikh till your conscience permits. I cannot be a judge nor can anyone else. Stop being in a fool's paradise.
I await your reply. You are very much here.
Rgards randip ji.

 

[Randip Singh]

You are a sikh [my presumption],sir,. Kindly go thru. the objection raised ,if it is worth the salt. One has a right no be judgemental about others unless one is sure as to what one states. It is immaterail if One quotes kabir or not. Guru Sahibs have quoted "Prahalad' and 'Hrinkashyap' that would not be heard by christians. You seem to be a sikh. Make your soul understand sikhi. Rest can be forgiven for ignorance. But not a sikhi worth a dime. Pl. let yourself have the privelege that U r entitled to. It is only up to u.
You would be a sikh till your conscience permits. I cannot be a judge nor can anyone else. Stop being in a fool's paradise.
I await your reply. You are very much here.
Rgards randip ji.

Look. Don't be offended by what I have asked. All I am asking is , is clarification.

You seem to be saying that if one follows the Bani of the Bhagats (or one Bani specifically), one can call oneself a Sikh. Is this what you are saying? If not please clarify?

 

[Sikh80]

Sikhs are very humble beings. They have been moulded in the concept of Miri /piri. Yes if sikhs follow to the extent as the banis of saints are contained in SGGS ji one should be proud to be a sikh.

Bani of any one which appears in SGGS is most respecable and is to be followed by a sikh. Hope it makes sense with you and thy idiocyncracies.

 

[Randip Singh]

Sikhs are very humble beings. They have been moulded in the concept of Miri /piri. Yes if sikhs follow to the extent as the banis of saints are contained in SGGS ji one should be proud to be a sikh.

Bani of any one which appears in SGGS is most respecable and is to be followed by a sikh. Hope it makes sense with you and thy idiocyncracies.

Ok so what you are saying is that if we follow the Bani to the extent that it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji then it is OK?

The reason why I asked is because someone asked me this question years ago. I used to think that it is OK to follow all the teachings of Namdev and Bhagat Kabir, until (especially Bhagat Kabir) I found things he has stated at total odds with what Sikhi says........there was one of his writings not in Bani where he condems women as evil and to be avoided........I found that at odds with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I think what our Guru's have done is taken aspects of various teachings that have common ground and discarded the rest. Wold you concur?

 

[Astroboy]

There are alot of verses from Kabir and other saints which have been excluded from SGGS - the reason is because they contradict each other and point towards austerities and rituals with more self importance attached to them than towards Akaal Purukh (those verses) are excluded. There are many who follow Kabir Panth and confuse themselves to be Sikhs.

 

[Sikh80]

Respected Namjap ji,
In India we have 'fire-extinguisher' services named as 'Fire-Brigade'.It is a separate entity altogether. I do respect your role as a Fire Brigade.


Regards once again.

 

[Randip Singh]

Respected Namjap ji,
In India we have 'fire-extinguisher' services named as 'Fire-Brigade'.It is a separate entity altogether. I do respect your role as a Fire Brigade.


Regards once again.

from my above post:

Ok so what you are saying is that if we follow the Bani to the extent that it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji then it is OK?

The reason why I asked is because someone asked me this question years ago. I used to think that it is OK to follow all the teachings of Namdev and Bhagat Kabir, until (especially Bhagat Kabir) I found things he has stated at total odds with what Sikhi says........there was one of his writings not in Bani where he condems women as evil and to be avoided........I found that at odds with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I think what our Guru's have done is taken aspects of various teachings that have common ground and discarded the rest. Wold you concur?

Do you concur?

 

[Sikh80]

Dear Randip jeo,
ssa,
It is for the third time that you have forced this upon me to comment upon as to why something has been done by Guru sahibaans. I am forced to comment upon as per that I think is correct. You may kindly get the answer from someone else. I refuse to entertain your kiddish request.

It is as per gurbani, that one should not indulge in excessive intellectualisation.[Japu ji sahib]

lakh sianapa nal hovey ta ek na chalay Naal,
Kiv sachiara hoiyae kiv kure tute Pal,
Hukum Rajai Chalna Nanak likhiya naal.

I am a poor creature or we are all poor creature who know
nothing of His creativity and HIS actions.How can then we comment upon HIS actions. We are no body. The one who judges all cannot be judged by HIS creation.It would simply be a foolish exercise. let us look at something that I have taken from some parallel post and put the things in the perspective.

Guru Nanak was, therefore, the EMBODIMENT of Divine Light:

• 'Gur Nanak Dev Govind roop.'
  (Basant Mohalla 5, p-1192, Guru Granth Sahib)
  'Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.' (Translation of the above

Further Guru Nanak's body was a platform from which God Himself spoke and delivered His message- Gurbani (Divine Word). God manifested Himself through Guru Nanak:

• 'Gur meh aap samoai sabad vartaya.'
  (Var Malar ki Mohalla 1, p-1279)
  'In the true Guru (Nanak) He installed His Own Spirit Through him, God speaketh Himself.' (Translation of the above)

God is in the Guru and Guru is in God. Though God is everywhere and in everybody but His traits are illuminated through the Guru. The Jot (Divine Light) that enshrined Guru Nanak's body and the Primal Jot of God are, therefore, one and the same:

• 'Gur Nanak Nanak har soai.'
  (Gaund Mohalla 5, p-865)
  'O Nanak, Jot of Nanak and God are one.' (Translation of the above)

Again the Janamsakhis (biographies) reveal that God spoke to Guru Nanak and said:

• 'Mei aad parmeshar aur tu gur parmeshar.'
  'I am the Primal God and thou art Guru God.' (Translation of the above)

We eulogise so much and now someone ask me to look into the actions and reason out as to why something was done or why it was not. May HE be blessed with something of reality. My guru Sahib is GOD and we exist here because HE wanted us. I shall not even think of answering your question. Let someone else may do it.My conscience does not permit me to say something about my Maalik that is not HIS praise.

In the end I would close with this line that seems to me appropriate as the thread is about 'Jaap'

'Jo jo japai so hoi punit Bhagat bhai lavai man hit.'
(Gauri Sukhmani Mohalla 5, p-290)
'He shall become pure whosoever repeateth His Name With devotion, affection and heartfelt love.' (Translation of the above)


with deep regards to Randip singh jio

 

[International Akaali]

Sikh80 i get the sense you get very uncomfortable and stressful when an individual does have any kind of question why is that? He has just asked that do you concur it is not that hard of a question.

Also I would like to ask you where in SGGS is given this "vidhi" of naam simran/meditation. As is this the way guru sahib has given us is of the rrepitiion of gods name numerous times in a certain position? Please clairify, you have pasted a bunch of articles which i don't have time to read right now so can you please summurize as per teaching of guru granth sahib ji. Thanks.

 

[Sikh80]

Sikh80 i get the sense you get very uncomfortable and stressful when an individual does have any kind of question why is that? He has just asked that do you concur it is not that hard of a question.

Also I would like to ask you where in SGGS is given this "vidhi" of naam simran/meditation. As is this the way guru sahib has given us is of the rrepitiion of gods name numerous times in a certain position? Please clairify, you have pasted a bunch of articles which i don't have time to read right now so can you please summurize as per teaching of guru granth sahib ji. Thanks.

Akali ji,
ssa
Since you are here I would like that you take up the question of randip ji and answer and guide us.What do you feel. I would also like that you should study the posts when you have the time and also tell us the ''vidhi'' after summarizing from SGGS ji. Incidentally I am attending to some other job.I shall read when I have the time.:advocate:On second thought I felt that you may really be short of time and hence The following 'tuks' are posted from SGGS ji.

hir ko nwmu jpIAY nIiq ] (405-13, Awsw, mÚ 5)
Chant continually the Name of the Lord.
swis swis iDAwie so pRBu iqAwig Avr prIiq ]1] rhwau ] (405-13, Awsw, mÚ 5)
With each and every breath, meditate on God, and renounce other love. ||1||Pause||

ijnw swis igrwis n ivsrY hir nwmW min mMqu ] (319-18, gauVI, mÚ 5)
Those who do not forget the Lord, with each breath and morsel of food, whose minds are filled with the Mantra of the Lord's Name

rwm nwmu myrY pRwix vswey siqgur pris hir nwim smeIAw ]1] (834-13, iblwvlu, mÚ 4)
He has brought the Lord's Name to dwell upon my breath of life; meeting with the True Guru, I am absorbed into the Lord's Name. ||1||

and
ijcru ivic dMmu hY iqcru n cyqeI ik krygu AgY jwie ] (556-1, ibhwgVw, mÚ 3)
As long as there is breath in the body, he does not remember the Lord; what will he do in the world hereafter?

 

[Randip Singh]

Dear Randip jeo,
ssa,
It is for the third time that you have forced this upon me to comment upon as to why something has been done by Guru sahibaans. I am forced to comment upon as per that I think is correct. You may kindly get the answer from someone else. I refuse to entertain your kiddish request.

This is not kiddish. Not intellectualism but something I want your view on. I am not trying to catch you out.OMG

My opinion is that if we follow only the Bani of Bhagats that is not Sikhi...........Sikhi finds the common threads of Bhagats and highlights those.

Do you agree with this or do you think Bani of Bhagats is the same as Sikhi?

 

[Sikh80]

This is not kiddish. Not intellectualism but something I want your view on. I am not trying to catch you out.OMG

My opinion is that if we follow only the Bani of Bhagats that is not Sikhi...........Sikhi finds the common threads of Bhagats and highlights those.

Do you agree with this or do you think Bani of Bhagats is the same as Sikhi?

Dear Randip ji,
Kindly re-phrase your question.It is not clear as to on which you want me to opine.

 

[Randip Singh]

Dear Randip ji,
Kindly re-phrase your question.It is not clear as to on which you want me to opine.

Ok we know the Bhagats had other Bani's that were not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji......yes?

My question is that if we otally followed one of these Bhagat Bani's totally, is that the same as Sikhi?

 

[Sikh80]

Having no reply from your side I am posting the reply to your question as I could interpret. If you still want to know something please feel free to post the query.
Bani of Granth sahib Maharaj ji contains the Bani of Nanaks/Gurus and the saints. The entire bani when clubbed under the head of 'SGGS ji' is called as ‘sabad –guru’. The ‘sabad guru’ thus includes the Bani of the saints [to the extent that is included in the Granth sahib ji] and Guru sahibs. The extent of bani of these saints that is included in Granth sahib ji also forms the part of ‘sabad-guru’ and is worthy of as much respect as is the other bani of Guru sahibaan.

I am no one [and so are you] to philosophize as to why only this much portion of the bani of saints is included in SGGS ji and why not the entire bani of the saints have been taken in ‘sabad- guru’ nor should I bother about that part of the Bani of the saints that is not included in the Granth sahib ji.It is also stated that I have fair supposition that all the saints whose bani is recorded in Granth sahib ji Maharaj were having a very high spiritual level that they had their dasam dwar opened. All Of the saints were said to be in communion with Almighty. They were Souls of higher level.

In the end I shall re-iterate as follows:

The sikhs bear the followings:

Gurbani is jewel:

• Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion. Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured. ||2|| (page 376)
• Hold your mind steady while reciting Bani:
• Under Guru’s Instructions, hold your mind steady; O my soul, do not let it wander anywhere. One who utters the Bani of the Praises of the Lord God, O Nanak, obtains the fruits of his heart’s desires. ||1|| (p538)
• Focus one’s mind on the True Lord:
• When the Lord shows His Mercy, He enjoins the mortal to work for the Guru. His pains are taken away, and the Lord’s Name comes to dwell within. True deliverance comes by focusing one’s consciousness on the True Lord. Listen to the Shabad, and the Word of the Guru’s Bani. ||1|| (p1277) [1]

[1]

Bani - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.






E&OE

 

[Sikh80]

Hope it satisfies and confirm so that I move out to have a cup of tea as it is almost past seven in the evening and I am glued to comp. for more than an hour to attend to your question.
regards

 

[Sikh80]

Ok.Sir, I shall check tomorrow morning.

 

[Randip Singh]

Having no reply from your side I am posting the reply to your question as I could interpret. If you still want to know something please feel free to post the query.
Bani of Granth sahib Maharaj ji contains the Bani of Nanaks/Gurus and the saints. The entire bani when clubbed under the head of 'SGGS ji' is called as ‘sabad –guru’. The ‘sabad guru’ thus includes the Bani of the saints [to the extent that is included in the Granth sahib ji] and Guru sahibs. The extent of bani of these saints that is included in Granth sahib ji also forms the part of ‘sabad-guru’ and is worthy of as much respect as is the other bani of Guru sahibaan.

I am no one [and so are you] to philosophize as to why only this much portion of the bani of saints is included in SGGS ji and why not the entire bani of the saints have been taken in ‘sabad- guru’ nor should I bother about that part of the Bani of the saints that is not included in the Granth sahib ji.It is also stated that I have fair supposition that all the saints whose bani is recorded in Granth sahib ji Maharaj were having a very high spiritual level that they had their dasam dwar opened. All Of the saints were said to be in communion with Almighty. They were Souls of higher level.

In the end I shall re-iterate as follows:

The sikhs bear the followings:

Gurbani is jewel:

• Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion. Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured. ||2|| (page 376)
• Hold your mind steady while reciting Bani:
• Under Guru’s Instructions, hold your mind steady; O my soul, do not let it wander anywhere. One who utters the Bani of the Praises of the Lord God, O Nanak, obtains the fruits of his heart’s desires. ||1|| (p538)
• Focus one’s mind on the True Lord:
• When the Lord shows His Mercy, He enjoins the mortal to work for the Guru. His pains are taken away, and the Lord’s Name comes to dwell within. True deliverance comes by focusing one’s consciousness on the True Lord. Listen to the Shabad, and the Word of the Guru’s Bani. ||1|| (p1277) [1]

[1]

Bani - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.






E&OE

Ok so I won't get an answer from you. Just say so instead of skating round the topic.

Everyone including YOU is entitled to an opinion, you do not wish to share it fair enough.

For me Bani of Bhagats not in Sri Guru Granth sahib ji does not constitute Sikhi.

PS Enjoy your tea................and please don't call me sir. We are Sikh and are all equals.

 

[Sikh80]

Does it really matter?Sir,.
It matters a little as to what we believe about the rest of the Bani of the saints.

I am student of physics, I shall study physics. Why should I study chemistry and form any opinion about chemistry.
My prescribed subject is Physics only.
Bye sir.I break for my Tea.It is very cold here.
Regards.

 

[Sikh80]

The guidance from Akali ji is awaited.

 

[International Akaali]

Sikh80: The answer to randip singhs question is this as per my understanding:

Bhagat bani which has been given gurgaddi should be called gurbani. There bani which is present in shri guru granth sahib ji is gurbani. Remember bani is a word that means spoken or said by first person of whoever the individual is and not the way we say in our daily lives :whisling: or :advocate:. In this case bhagat ji's bani outside of shri guru granth sahib ji can never be considered gurbani as guru sahib didnt give that authority of gurbani to the bani of bhagats outside of guru granth sahib ji.

We do not know why that the bani outside of guru granth sahib ji but however there was a reason as to why it was or wasn't. We can't come to that understanding because we do not need too. Gurbani is given us the ultimate path to reaching the stage of sach khand and being one with akaal purkh. If we come to say "oh why wasn't this bani of bhagats included", then what are we as individuals trying to say that guru sahib made a mistake that he didn't include it in gur shabad? No one would ever say that and we can't come to an understand as to why, The bani of bhagats which go in line with the sidhant of sikhi which guru nanak sahib created is included in shri guru granth sahib ji and the ones that are not, are not included it is very simple concept. So our ultimate guru is not the bhagat himself, or guru tegh bahadur only, or guru nanak dev ji only etc, our guru is all those bhagat's, mahapurkhs and guru's which have there bani in guru granth sahib which makes guru granth sahib ji as our ultimate guru which gives us the spirtual path.



I dont have much time right now so i will post some other time on the naam topic. Have been very busy

Regards