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Naam Japna

Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
~SSA~ Pk ji,
It is nice that you replied to the thread. It is also very nice to learn that you are an author.I shall check up the article that is stated by you. In the meantime It is requested that you may kindly post anything that you like in this thread for the advancement of the thread. I do not have much that is original. I am just posting and pasting the thoughts of others.

Regards.
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
The Guru, in effect, means that to matters that are beyond the spacio-temporal world, it would be wrong to apply the spacio-temporal logic, and yet man knows of no other logic or language. Perforce, He has to be explained, howsoever inadequately or symbolically, only in terms of that language.

That is why the Guru has cautioned us against the pitfalls and inadequacy of human logic and language to comprehend the Timeless One. All the same, the Guru has mentioned the state when the Transcendent God was all by Himself and there was no creation. The Gurus say, "When there was no form in sight, how could there be good or bad actions? When God was in the Self-Absorbed state, there could be no enmity or conflict.
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ
आसा महला १ ॥
Asa Mesure. 1st Guru.

ਆਖਾ ਜੀਵਾ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਉ
आखा जीवा विसरै मरि जाउ ॥
By repeating Thy Name I live. By forgetting it, I die.

ਆਖਣਿ ਅਉਖਾ ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਉ
आखणि अउखा साचा नाउ ॥
Difficult it is to repeat the True Name.

ਸਾਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਲਾਗੈ ਭੂਖ
साचे नाम की लागै भूख ॥
If man feels appetite for the True Name,

ਤਿਤੁ ਭੂਖੈ ਖਾਇ ਚਲੀਅਹਿ ਦੂਖ ॥੧॥
तितु भूखै खाइ चलीअहि दूख ॥१॥
then, that appetite consumes his pains.

ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਇ
सो किउ विसरै मेरी माइ ॥
How can He be forgotten O my Mother?

ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੈ ਨਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
साचा साहिबु साचै नाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
True is the Lord and true is His Name. Pause.

ਸਾਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਲੁ ਵਡਿਆਈ
साचे नाम की तिलु वडिआई ॥
Of even a fraction of the greatness of the True Name,

ਆਖਿ ਥਕੇ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਈ
आखि थके कीमति नही पाई ॥
people have grown weary of recounting, but have not been able to appraise it.

ਜੇ ਸਭਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੈ ਆਖਣ ਪਾਹਿ
जे सभि मिलि कै आखण पाहि ॥
Were all men to meet and glorify Thee,

ਵਡਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਾਟਿ ਜਾਇ ॥੨॥
वडा न होवै घाटि न जाइ ॥२॥
Thou would grow neither greater nor lesser.

ਨਾ ਓਹੁ ਮਰੈ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੋਗੁ
ना ओहु मरै न होवै सोगु ॥
That Lord dies not nor there is any mourning (on that account).

ਦੇਂਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਚੂਕੈ ਭੋਗੁ
देंदा रहै न चूकै भोगु ॥
He continues to give and His provisions never run short.

ਗੁਣੁ ਏਹੋ ਹੋਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ
गुणु एहो होरु नाही कोइ ॥
This is His vitrue that none else is like Him.

ਨਾ ਕੋ ਹੋਆ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥
ना को होआ ना को होइ ॥३॥
There has been none, nor there shall be any.

ਜੇਵਡੁ ਆਪਿ ਤੇਵਡ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਿ
जेवडु आपि तेवड तेरी दाति ॥
As great as Thou art, O Lord so great are Thine gifts.

ਜਿਨਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਕੀਤੀ ਰਾਤਿ
जिनि दिनु करि कै कीती राति ॥
Thine is the personality who makest the day and the night, too.

ਖਸਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਮਜਾਤਿ
खसमु विसारहि ते कमजाति ॥
Vile are they who forget their Master.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਵੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਸਨਾਤਿ ॥੪॥੨॥
नानक नावै बाझु सनाति ॥४॥२॥
O Nanak, the True One Himself is the embellisher.
 
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Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ
आसा महला १ ॥
Asa Measure. 1st Guru.

ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤੂਤਿ ਬੇਲਿ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਫਲੁ ਹੂਆ
करम करतूति बेलि बिसथारी राम नामु फलु हूआ ॥
The vine of good actions and true character is spread out and it bears the fruit of Lord's Name.

ਤਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਰੇਖ ਅਨਾਹਦੁ ਵਾਜੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥੧॥
तिसु रूपु न रेख अनाहदु वाजै सबदु निरंजनि कीआ ॥१॥
The Name has no form or outline and it resounds spontaneously. Through the Name, the pure Lord is revealed.

ਕਰੇ ਵਖਿਆਣੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ
करे वखिआणु जाणै जे कोई ॥
IF one understands the Name, then, alone he can discourse there-on.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
अम्रितु पीवै सोई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
He alone quaffs the Nectar (of the Name). Pause.

ang351
 
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Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand

  • Without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord; without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord.

  • He has placed Himself within the True Guru; revealing Himself, He declares this openly.

  • Meeting the True Guru, eternal liberation is obtained; He has banished attachment from within.

  • This is the highest thought, that one's consciousness is attached to the True Lord.
 

pk70

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

There seems to be a widespread confusion about Naam, Simran, and Gurmantra. We will discuss some important characteristics of the all three together, because they are closely related. This article is bound to be long. To avoid distractions, there are no references for the quotes. As always, an attempt is made to write the entire contents according to Gurbani. Just read it and then verify it with Gurbani. Then, please point out my mistakes.

SAT SREE AKAAL Sikh80 ji

I must applaud you for searching Gurbani and sharing with Sikh fellows. You have tried to take basic points and in a suggestive language.Also you tried to explain them. When you cover a big area, some problems do occur; all the same, it was my pleasure to share my approach in that context.

Many of the questions put on this site are triggered by either misinterpretation of Gurbani or confusion around the words used in Gurbani.I used to confuse on these points before but not any more after studying Guru Granth. Many couldnt satisfy my quest save for Dr Sahib Singh, Gurbachan Singh Talib and Pr. Teja Singh and Dr Baldev Singh Scientist (USA) who strictly tried to follw Satguru’s Gurmat. On various issues, you can still disagree with the said scholars but it is not much though. Why do I regard their works close to Gurmat ideology? Because they kept totality of Gurmat in mind while working on Gurbani. I did over come my confusion after finding difficult Gurwak interpreted by Guru Sahiban themselves and found no contradiction in it as some peudo scholars claim.

If any one is interested really to understand Gurbani and practice accordingly, he/she should start with mool mantra. I shall try to explain all points discussed in Sikh 80’s post in concise text. Interpretations by Guru Sahibaan in GGS Ji are priceless in this context.

Satguru Nanak started with “Ikk Onkar”, it is an answer to his followers about the supreme being. Regardless the different claims people have about Him, He is one, it is defined in various Shabad also by hinting about “ kete Nama”. Followers are warned in Gurbani not to fall for any other One repeatedly through out GGS ji like”tudh bin dooja ko nahi, tu raheaa smayee” Rag Mlar ki Var Mehla 1 (1291). Ikk Onkar is also known in GGS ji as SACHA, NAAM, SHABAD, GURU. GURDEV, GURGOPALA. Many times people took the word Guru in all contexts as Guru Nanak and his sroops when they read Gurbani. That is a mistake Also stressed is given about Ikk Onkar in Asa Mehla I : Sahib mera eko hai 11 eko hai bhai ekko hai(350)( My master is one only one.)Dr Sahib Singh gives in Guru Granth Darpan, examples after examples how The creator was called in various words such as Sacha, Naam, Shabad, Gurdev, Gurgopala.like at page919, 943 etc. List goes on.

Then comes answer for the theistic, “ SATNAAM” in this context, “Sat” means reality and existence. Some translate it as true but best meaning suits here in this context after the word Ikk Onkar, is reality and existence; it is declared that He is just not an assumption or presumption or mere myth but a reality.
“KARTAPURAKH” this word removes a lot of confusion about the Almighty. He is a creator, active, all is His Creation. People get rewards; achievements etc are all as per His Ordinance. Whatever is done is due to Him, none other should take credit of any thing because only His Will prevails.
NIRBUO NIRVAIR, Creator has not fear of any one since He has created everything visible or invisible., He is beyond animosity, it is not possible He can have animosity.

“AKAALMURAT AJUNI” both words are related to each other. If there is birth, death follows; it is basic principle of nature. So Ikkonkar is beyond birth and death. Any one takes birth has to die. The Enlightened personalities faced the natural principle; however, Tha Absolute One is above this principle. If Sikhs in this context dare to say He incarnates, or He came in the form of Satguru, they are simply disrespecting Satguru in a horrible way. Compliments given to Guru should be decipher as” they were like Him” See page 931, one who realizes him becomes like Him”, however, He doesn’t take birth, very strict instruction to the Sikhs is given in Moolmantra, how low they can stoop to violate this Hukam Bharu Mehal 5 ghar 1(1136) Satguru curses such idiots. Another example may be suitable here. A Mother dearly loves her son and says” mera putt tan raja hai” her comment doesn’t mean in reality her son is a king. Satgur is revered so highly in Sikhism because Satguru leads the seekers to HIM and helps the seeker to get free from the chains of Maya.Satguru is worthy of that esteem. The Ultimate worship is performed to The Supreme Being. Ardaas is (should be) addressed to Him only
ਪਉੜੀਕੀਤਾਲੋੜੀਐਕੰਮੁਸੁਹਰਿਪਹਿਆਖੀਐਕਾਰਜੁਦੇਇਸਵਾਰਿਸਤਿਗੁਰਸਚੁਸਾਖੀਐ {ਪੰਨਾ91}
In essence. Pray to The almighty if you are in need to do something. With the guidance of Satguru , His blessings , wish comes true certainly.
Then SWEMBH” means He is from Himself, self extent, no one did or could establish or create Him, He illuminates by Himself. Though Satguru has tried to express the inexpressible, he also declares that actually because of His being Infinite, it is not possible to explain Him in words.
“GURPARSAD” some scholars say it means that He can be known by His grace only, many say that He can be realized with the blessings of Guru. In Guru Granth Sahib the later meaning is stressed through. His grace is considered extremely important.also I take both meanings for me to proceed on the Gurmatt. The next waak is about His eternity; His existence was, is now and will be for ever.


When Moolmantra is understood as interpreted by Guru Sahiban, Sikh needs to follow Gurmat path strictly. First , a battle within the mind should be started.Remember we are known as Sikhs.

NAAMSIMRAN ?NAAM JAPNA usually as Sikh 80 explained in detail, repetition of Gurbani ( which is His praise ) without unconditional love for Him in the heart will not bring any fruit. There should be longing for Him, a feeling of separation from Him in the heart. How many we feel separation from Him? Answer lies in our over involvement of worldly affairs. If one is happy what one is having and very much involved in it, his singing Gurbani is a ritual.His love serves as a kind of intoxication and elevates souls to higher state. Ritual is nothing more than a conditional behaviour, while being in it, other stuff can take over the mind(it does we all know, doesnt it?). Even visiting Gurudawara should be taken seriously.
Go there to get something from the Guru. Get Hukamnama, get it into mind, check all the time if Guru Hukam is not disobeyed. Reciting, singing Gurbani, just merely taking Hukamnama and talking about it is not sufficient provided something inside our heart is posted to check on our own deeds.

Simran techniques are explained by many. To me some time they appear to be yoga exercises. Many cannot understand these if they don’t have special talent to meditiate on mind and then move it towards His memory. They talk about sounds, the practice. I personally feel that Sikhs should take Gurmat as a practical way. Here are a few ideas I can share. The best hint about simran I got from Satgur. Is In Maru Mehla 1
ਮਾਰੂਮਹਲਾਕੋਈਆਖੈਭੂਤਨਾਕੋਕਹੈਬੇਤਾਲਾਕੋਈਆਖੈਆਦਮੀਨਾਨਕੁਵੇਚਾਰਾ੧॥ਭਇਆਦਿਵਾਨਾਸਾਹਕਾਨਾਨਕੁਬਉਰਾਨਾਹਉਹਰਿਬਿਨੁਅਵਰੁਜਾਨਾ੧॥ਰਹਾਉ {ਪੰਨਾ991}
In essence: People judged Satguru to be a person who just got lost. They didn’t think Satguru fell for The Creator. None other than Him was in His mind. )
Well that is what happens when one falls in love with Him. Remember falling for a person can drag the minds to the extent of craziness! So falling for Him is more powerful. Be aware! Thinking is changed, behaviour is changed and society starts giving strange look because the approach towards life is changed. He starts guiding the soul against all odds.

His Simran is not limited to Shabad kirtan only, the practical aspect is huge. Take a look
ਰੂੜੀਬਾਣੀਹਰਿਪਾਇਆਗੁਰਸਬਦੀਬੀਚਾਰਿਆਪੁਗਇਆਦੁਖੁਕਟਿਆਹਰਿਵਰੁਪਾਇਆਨਾਰਿ੪੭॥ {ਪੰਨਾ936} M-1
( In essence Almighty is realized with Guru guidance, all ego(me) disappeared, pains/sorrows gone and soul lady has realized Almighty Spouse) How? By battling with mind which is grossly involved with maya.While being in love with Him, thoughts about Him take over the control of heart.

More ਰਾਜਨਰਾਮਰਵੈਹਿਤਕਾਰਿਰਣਮਹਿਲੂਝੈਮਨੂਆਮਾਰਿਰਾਤਿਦਿਨੰਤਿਰਹੈਰੰਗਿਰਾਤਾਤੀਨਿਭਵਨਜੁਗਚਾਰੇਜਾਤਾ .... {ਪੰਨਾ931}
( In essence King Lord is contemplated with all heart by battling with own mind. Result was good, I have become absorbed with Him and have seen Him in whole world and over.)

How one can expect a seed to grow if needed land and atmosphere are not provided. It is that simple to understand realization of Him. A strong longing for Him in a heart that is battling against the odds (primal forces like ego etc) is mandatory to meditiate on Him. Without that, keep reading, keep chanting all the effects will be negated by the trash we are facing with every day under the name of wealth, achievements, rewards etc. Sikh just works on a job, manages a business, does( whatever stage he /she is put on)but his/her love for Him dominates all.
No need to urgue on what is Naam, basically it is HIM and our relation to Him. First of all, a relation is needed to be accepted by our minds. Relationship doesn’t survive without love. Without love relationship dies its own slow death.Take example of any relation on this earth. To establish the relationship with Him is a big deal, believe me. Following the crowd mentality can push us away from our real aim of life.Satgur says that don’t doubt for a second, if a longing for Him is established within mind, His grace will follow
ਸੂਹੀਮਹਲਾਜਿਨਕਉਭਾਂਡੈਭਾਉਤਿਨਾਸਵਾਰਸੀਸੂਖੀਕਰੈਪਸਾਉਦੂਖਵਿਸਾਰਸੀਸਹਸਾਮੂਲੇਨਾਹਿਸਰਪਰਤਾਰਸੀ੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ729}
( In essence If persons have true love for him, a strong longing is there , doubtlessly His grace will follow and all pains will disappear.) It is a guarantee from Satguru. Then why NaAM simran is not taken seriously by following Satguru strictly. The last half part of Sikh80’s post advocates same idea I have shared with you here.
Rest another time.



Bhul chuk m
aaf.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Sikh80 Ji,

I am truly happy for you that pk70 is sharing Gurbani Vichaar with you and that you are both like-minded. It is a rare opportunity to have satsangat online, like this. I'm enjoying every bit of your info and am learning at a tremendous speed from both your company.

"the lowliest of the low," [1. p. 15]
and never does he mention another person as ?That is Thou.? According to tradition, the Fifth Guru declined to include in Guru Granth Sahib a hymn by a contemporary saint, Bhagat Kaanhaa, saying,
"I am He, O, I am the same," because this hymn was felt by the Guru to be evidently contrary to the Sikh thesis that man is not and can never be God, though he can be His instrument.

Waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru, Sikh80 Ji!!

and Waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru, pk70 Ji !!!

When Moolmantra is understood as interpreted by Guru Sahiban, Sikh needs to follow Gurmat path strictly. First , a battle within the mind should be started.Remember we are known as Sikhs.



 

pk70

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namjap ji

Thanks
I must compliment to sikh80 for his open mind( as you have). Share an idea with him or question his idea, he gladly accepts it if his mind agrees with it; if not, he asks further explanation unlike closed mind persons who start throwing judgemets. Very interested in learning about Sikhi. I advised him, the anwer is in Guru Granth Sahib if studied in its totality.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Simran does not differentiate between persons on the basis of religion or nationality. It is a way of life that is based on right conduct and moral values and that ensures a human being the peace of mind in all circumstances. It
is a spiritual science and moral hygiene that cures
the mind of tensions and worries, rids the soul free
of the dross and dirt and clears the conscience of
evil influences (vices).

Sikh80 Ji,

What a powerful statement. The power lies in its subtleness. It's invisibility.
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
Yes,you are right Namjap ji everything that elevates the mind is wonderful.


"When the awareness dawns that we are alienated from God there arises in the heart an acute hunger for the attainment of that exalted Spirit. Only then do we setout to seek an accomplished teacher, a realized ;(Guru)"


For us everything is said to be in Granth sahib ji. But I strongly feel that there should be some classes for this. My knowledge is very shallow. I want to learn more.
Thanks for the wonderful write up.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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PK70 Ji, Sikh80 Ji and All Sadh sangat Jeeo,

It is a way of life that is based on right conduct and moral values and that ensures a human being the peace of mind in all circumstances.

These particular words express what goes on in my mind/consciousness every night before I go to sleep. It is like a replay button that scans the whole day's activities.


If I have said something to someone that not exactly true, this replay button gives me the opportunity to review the event. It offers me a second chance in expressing myself in a more honest way.
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
Dear namjap ji,

It always nice to go through your posts.

Right conduct is righteousness that leads to contentment and it is a contended mind that props up righteousness; in a way this a cyclic process and it is only this kind of living that leads to compassion, spiritual repose and consistency.

I am quoting the following from Jap ji Sahib that I was going through a while ago.

The bull of righteousness that is stated to have supported the earth is the son of compassion and mercy.[literal meaning]

In essence Lord has made the rule that entire creation shall get support from righteousness. It is the Hukum. This righteousness leads to contentment. One who is able to make this out is the one who becomes truthful. In the paudi-1 the same question is posed :

ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ] (1-6, jpu, mÚ 1)

Thus one who has attained this kind of understanding that it is the righteousness that is supporting the entire creation becomes truthful; one understands HIS Hukum and will; and one becomes contended and at peace with oneself .

In this Paudi and in the last three lines of the above ,Guru Nanak dev ji is asking from Sidhas as to what is the support of the earth and if the earth is supported by any mythological bull then what is the support to the Bull. Guru explains that the logic of Sidhas is not worth sustaining and shall not stand to logic if it is stated that the bull is supported by another earth. In this way there will be anomaly that there shall be many earths. However, the message conveyed is that entire creation is supported by the righteousness only and it is this that leads to contentment.

It is an achievement if you are always at peace. Please let us have the trick ; besides that you have stated above.

Regards
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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This is the greatest misunderstanding which man has with regards to value, worth and wealth.

ਰਤਨੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਕਉਡੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਚੈ
रतनु तिआगि कउडी संगि रचै ॥
Raṯan ṯi­āg ka­udī sang racẖai.
Forsaking the jewel, they are engrossed with a shell.

ਸਾਚੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਝੂਠ ਸੰਗਿ ਮਚੈ
साचु छोडि झूठ संगि मचै ॥
Sācẖ cẖẖod jẖūṯẖ sang macẖai.
They renounce Truth and embrace falsehood.

ਜੋ ਛਡਨਾ ਸੁ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨੈ
जो छडना सु असथिरु करि मानै ॥
Jo cẖẖadnā so asthir kar mānai.
That which passes away, they believe to be permanent.

ਜੋ ਹੋਵਨੁ ਸੋ ਦੂਰਿ ਪਰਾਨੈ
जो होवनु सो दूरि परानै ॥
Jo hovan so ḏūr parānai.
That which is immanent, they believe to be far off.

ਛੋਡਿ ਜਾਇ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਸ੍ਰਮੁ ਕਰੈ
छोडि जाइ तिस का स्रमु करै ॥
Cẖẖod jā­ė ṯis kā saram karai.
They struggle for what they must eventually leave.

ਸੰਗਿ ਸਹਾਈ ਤਿਸੁ ਪਰਹਰੈ
संगि सहाई तिसु परहरै ॥
Sang sahā­ī ṯis parharai.
They turn away from the Lord, their Help and Support, who is always with them.
 
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