Thanks Gyanji for the input.
I can see(thanks to the different inputs) and understand that the problem is the 'counting' and not the actual mala.
Kabir ji points towards many of the brahmin rituals as like a person walking in the dark with a lamp, who still falls into a pit or well. Because what use is the lamp ??
Carrying, wearing or counting on a mala is not going to increase your bhagti.
Kabir ji was under the wing of brahmin pandit Ramanand for a number of years.
On page 326, he realises that he wasted his life in kashi by following the prescribed worthless rituals like counting on the rosary for instance.
ਸਗਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਿਵ ਪੁਰੀ ਗਵਾਇਆ
Then on 656 - ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ
Bhookhe bhagti na keejai. Jah maalaa apanee leejai.
Bhagti devotion can not be performed while hungry (maya's hunger) and here is your mala, take it back !!
(I know that I looked at this shabad from a different angle in the previous post, but I can interpret it more clearly with the others)
The person who counts beads of mala or who counts their jap for bhagti is full of 'hunger' for maya. - this is not gurmat, totally manmatt !!
Looking at the shabad about kabir ji's mother again (856)
ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Jabb kee maalaa laee nipoote tabb te sukhu n bhaio
Ever since this worthless son has taken the Mala, there has been no Sukha (Joy, ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ,Gain, etc.)!
- This is telling us that those who take on the empty practice of counting are worthless and there can be no sukh.
Gurbani instructs us to have the rosary enshrined within.
There is no calculations or sums that determine when a person gets enlightened.
Therefore counting is contrary to gurmat.
If there is calculations or sums to determine your level of bhagti, then this is ALL false and part of Haumai and false-Ego.
It becomes clear that Kabirji doesn't endorse the mala, even if he carried one.
As he says ''The mala is on my neck and the lords name is on the tongue''
Which indicates that confining the lords name as a number to a mala bead is NOT what he does, even if he has one on his neck.
Therfore, counting your jap, or counting your paarts is NO way to move up the bhagti scale.
And I can now clarify with understanding the wrong about counting that Gyanji stated in his OP.
The only real use for a 'Mala' is that it helps some people to concentrate if they can be doing something with their hands, as I mentoned previously.
It works like a tool to help focus your concentration and dhian on the One Lord when trying to meditate and contemplate.
But if you start counting and using it like an abacus, then you are just improving your math and not your bhagti or spirituality !!
My post may look like a bit of a U-turn, but I knew that you don't do empty practicing with the mala and thanks to Gyanjis posts, I can now see that you don't do any counting either (there is a difference! although it can be easily missed!)
Agreeing, disagreeng, expressing and then realising is all about learning, and I always feel better when I have learnt !
osed a few questions.... Is Kabir Ji really THAT RICH..that he can afford to buy a FRESH NEW POT daily....and spend his entire day embellishing it..polishing it..ONLY to DISCARD IT the very next morning for a BRAND NEW ONE ??
