One God

[svea00]

None of your good works count and grace can only be found in Jesus Christ alone.

Excuse me Mr. Jamesuk!
But this is in fact exactly why I abandonned the christian belief.
I do believe that good deeds count... anytime, to anyone, by any means. I try to serve humanity with ridgeous love and respect. I do believe that there are several equal ways to one god, Jesus might be the only one for you, but please don´t claim that he is the only way for everyone.

 

[carolineislands]

I have been looking at so many of repsonses and posts and can't stop to see that once I used to think the same.

And I read your post and think to myself, "Wow -- I used to think just like that!" Now I understand that your perception of God is only one perception and one way of understanding God. There are many others but it is the same God.

None of your good works count and grace can only be found in Jesus Christ alone.

Faith without works is dead.

And grace comes from God, only He decides who receives it and why. Your perception of God is very very small. God is beyond the manmade rules of your religion. The beliefs you call the "truth" were outlined and defined at the council of nicea by MEN. God is beyond the reasoning of those men and beyond the words of any human language. God transends all of human kind's attempts to define him. Like the blind men trying to describe an elephant, we only have one perception of the truth. You describe the trunk of the elephant and another describes the ear, and yet another describes the leg and so on. What we need to do is take off our blinders and see that the God we ALL worship is far more than the little fragments of understanding that each of us has been holding up as the one and only truth.

What you're telling us here is in effect that there is only one truth and it is the trunk of the elephant. What I am saying is that is only a part and that the whole measure and scope of God is more than any of us can perceive and that to truly love him and transend all the made up rules that people have used to try to define him, you have to first give up allegience to doctrine and put your focus on God alone.

God is bigger than ANY religion -- including yours. We live in an infinite universe. Do you really think that a tiny litte gaggle of pompous catholic fathers at nicea were the only human beings to have ever understood truth throughout the ages of mankind? Everybody else is going to hell, right? Have you ever wondered about how illogical that is? Have you ever looked at the tiny dot on the globe that represents the life of Jesus? Have you ever looked at the size of the earth compared to the Sun? Or the Sun compared to other stars hundred of times it's size? Have you ever thought about the amount of energy it would take to create this universe? I have. One scientist figured it in Kilowatts. If you wrote the number as 1 followed by zeros on ticker tape it would encircle the earth at the equator 13 times. If you wrote the number 1 followed by zeros in books, it would fill a library of over a million volumes. God created this infinite universe with a single thought. And yet you think that your version of Christianity is the only section of humanity God has ever spoken to or revealed himself to? You think that you are the only ones that have the ability to know and love and be part of God? What gives you the right to define what God does and does not do or how he chooses to present himself to others? God can present himself to anybody any way He chooses at any time past or present and just because he has spoken to you in one way does NOT mean he cannot speak to another in another way. If that's the right way for you -- follow it with all your heart. However God reveals himself to each individual is how that individual should follow, and with everything within them give Him thanks and honor.

You discredit and diminish God by restricting your perception of who he is and what He is capable of. And you make him less than He is in your own mind by attempting to impose your limited perception of Him on others.

How dare you presume to declare how God does and does not reveal Himself to others. That is HIS job and HE will do it however HE desires. And that is between God and the individual he reveals himself to. If you would come to understand that, you just might find out that he has revealed MORE of Himself to others than He has to you because you are limiting him and others are not.

Think about it...

 

[spnadmin]

PLEASE MOVE ALL SIMILAR POSTS TO THE INTERFAITH DIALOG SECTION JAMESUK JI.

MOD

 

[jamesuk]

***********************************************

You have been asked to post messages from Christian scripture in the Interfaith Dialog section. Please abide by this.

This is your second warning.

Mod

 

[jamesuk]

I agree with you, there is deception in church and there are many false prophhets and preachers. It is God who will judge all. Both outside and inside the church. I preach Jesus alone. These are end times and written in Bible. Thats the reason I do not panic when I look at deception in this world.

Berean

 

[carolineislands]

There are over 35,000 different denominations of protestant Christianity -- that's ONLY the protestants! Not counting Catholics or Orthodox Christians. Not counting Judaism or the other leg of the triad, Islam. Can you imagine how many different sects of Abrahamic beliefs that would be? And every last ONE of them thinks they have the one and only truth and that everybody else is going to hell.

 

[carolineislands]

I do know the love of Jesus Christ. I know it well and am every grateful for it. I also know the love of Guru and understand that God is more than any of our ideas.

How about reading the posts instead of only glossing over to try to establish who 'WON." Nobody cares who wins or loses.

 

[lotus lion]

Hi,

James UK ji, whilst I did not have the opportunity to read your original posts, it is fair to summarise the fact that you believe Salvation is only possible through Jesus Christ.

I will have to slightly disagree with you there.

According to the logic that has been displayed, Gandhi or Bhai Puran Singh would not be sent to 'heaven' as they have not accepted Jesus Christ.

Mother Theresa, on the other hand would be applauded by the Sikhs even though she may have never professed to be one.

It does beg the question, where would a Christian who has not even done 1/10th of what Gandhi and Bhai Puran Singh had done gone, even though he accepted Jesus Christ as his saviour?

My Understanding of Christianity is rather general, but I believe that you are mistaken from a philosophical perspective.

Maybe we can start another thread which compares and contrasts the teachings of the Bible and Guru Granth Sahib, Jesus Christ and The Gurus as suggested by the Moderators. And I mean that with no animosity.

As Christianity is a Missionary Religion, I am of the belief that passages from the Bible have been twisted by the missionaries (which were twisted by the previous one and so on) to suit thier needs at the time to achive their goal, as no complete scripture is present. This was done to get people to convert, which only hardens the missionaries ego and ironically takes them and the people who have been converted further from God.

The Bible is an old scripture with, and as far as I am aware, only a few original surviving pages around.

Translations are also used, not the original Language. This is where the problems start. The deeper underlying meanings that were embedded within the original are forever lost so the complete understanding will never be achieved as one is going on the interpretation provided by a man

It has been fragmented into (thousands?) of denominations by the Priests to convert the masses, so no one really knows who is truly correct. Though they may have a general understanding, more then this is required to obtain enlightenment.

Simply from the above, I would say that the bible is not a complete scripture, as the complete scripture is nowhere to be found, no control of authorship was done about what went into it, and today Christians work off translations.

As a result, one would not be able to eradicate ones ego as one would be striving for enlightenment on Chinese whispers.

Maybe Jesus Christ spoke of the same truth that The Gurus Spoke of, but, unfortunately for Jesus Christ, his teachings were not encapsulated and recorded in the same way as the Guru Granth Sahib.

With respect to the original question, i now feel that i should not simply compare scriptures side by side as i have, rather niavely, put them on parr with a completly authenticated set of scriptures when we never really knew what the other prophet or Guru was teaching.
Rather i should see the direction in which the scriptures are pointing and then look into the their respective Prophet/Guru.

My best regards,

Lotus

 

[pk70]

Well said Caroline Island ! First of all, this mind needs to be opened up to His creation. Try to imagine Him, the only one with numerous given names, in your thought. He is beyond enimity. He doesnt take sides as humans do. Satguru Nanak says, if any one just tells about Him, talks about Him, I sacrifice to Him and serve Him without my being. Comparing religions over shadow the beauty we are seeking, the Infinite beautiful without a name, the creator of all. Humans are trying to possess Him as they are possessive by nature.

 

[Khojat]

Your position is incorrect dear Gursikh,

The 10 th Nanak was clear in his Bani when he said that God was the Master of the 14 worlds. These refer to the Heavens, The Earth and The Nether Regions.

The other faiths such as Islam, Christianity and Judaism also declare the same.

The declaration by the 10th Master is wholly consistent with that made by Sat Guru Nanak in the Japji Sahib where the Lord says that that are many Earths beyond this Earth. It is also not inconsistent with Sat Guru Nanak's declaration to the Mullah's that there are thousand of planets and stars and thousand more beyond these. This was to refute the claim of the Mullash that there were only Seven Worlds above and Seven Below. The Muslims interpreted this literally and the Sat Guru proved them wrong.

The 10th Nanak's Bani in clear. However the confusion which arises may be due to misinterpretation just like the Mullah, who were instructed by Sat Guru Nanak.

The 14 worlds refer to the 14 levels of existance, 7 each above and below the Earth. Each level of existance contains thousands of planets, suns, moons, asteroids, etc. This is also consistent with Modern Science.

Both the 1st and the 10th Nanak made true revelations both were one and the same.

The Bani is deep and profound as is its Creator. Contemplate and Ponder over His Word. The Word is not unique to our Faith, God has revealed it to others. Each time God's revelation is made manifest to the world, it is to add more knowledge or to correct wrong interpretations and practices. Do not be so quick to give answers, take your time and understand the Bani, its context, etc. I am no teacher or saint but a simple believerf in the One God whose works are diffused throught the Creation.

Sat Sri Akal.

Khojat Ji,

I see you are new in SPN. Welcome to SPN.

Sikhism doesn't make claims that There are Seven Heavens above the Earth and Seven Nether Worlds below. Guru Ji taught that there are millions of heavens, hells, solar systems, galaxies, skies and earths but Muslims believe that there are only seven layers of sky up and down totaling fourteen.

Further reading : Misconceptions - Gurmat and Islam - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

 

[Astroboy]

“The planets, solar systems and galaxies, created and arranged by Your
Hand, sing.”​

SGGSJ page 6​

“There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there
is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He
commands, so they exist.”​

SGGSJ page 8​

“So many worlds beyond this world-so very many!”​

SGGSJ page 3​

“He established the many worlds and skies.”​

SGGSJ page 184​

“I have searched and searched, across so many worlds, but without the
Name, there is no peace.”​

SGGSJ page 255​

“Among all lights, I behold Your Form; all the worlds are Your Maya.”​

SGGSJ page 351​

“Many millions are the fields of creation and the galaxies”​

SGGSJ page 276​

“True are Your worlds, True are Your solar Systems.” SGGSJ page 463

 

[Astroboy]

In Sikhism you won't find absurd claims that the Moon split into two and the other half fell at the backyard of Ali's house.

 

[pk70]

In Sikhism you won't find absurd claims that the Moon split into two and the other half fell at the backyard of Ali's house.

namjap ji

Both of your posts are representation of logic Satguru advocated through out his life. He faced many strayed minds and got them convinced. If by conveying Satguru bachan we are rediculed, so it be. Truth remains the truth.
Every day I remain grateful to satguru who set us free from all cooked up and superstitious stories.. I sacrifice millions times to him !!!!!

I compliment to you to be right on path of Gurmat. May Waheguru bless you all you are seeking!!!

 

[lotus lion]

I have been thinking about James UK Ji's post for a while and have been attempting to find parellels between Sikhi and Christianity.

If you look at all major religions, one will find that serving, praising and honouring saints is rated highly.

Where followers of religions, unintentionally may i add, go wrong is to believe that only their saints are correct. James UK ji's post is a perfect example, through no fault of his own.

I am of the belief that Saints are not simply one that are born into a particular religion, but that they possess particular qualities And are found in all traditions.

These are listed in the Guru Granth Sahib as follows:

1. To engage in meditation on the All-pervading Lord through the Mantra of His Name.
2. To have the Wisdom to look alike upon pleasure and pain (i.e. to become free of duality, the pair of opposites or "likes and dislikes"); to live the pure lifestyle, free of vengeance or generosity.
3. To be kind to all beings; overpower the five thieves (lust, anger, greed, attachment, and pride. All other evils tendencies in the world are a function of these five. They overtake us like a disease, spreading their filth until they control us).
4. To take the Kirtan of the Lord's Praise (Rabb Dee Sifat-Salaah) as their food; and remain untouched by Maya, like the lotus in the water.
5. They share the Teachings with friend and enemy alike (i.e., they adopt Teaching in which the friend and the enemy look alike to them); and to love the devotion of God.
6. Not to listen to slander; renouncing self-conceit, (eradicating false ego-sense or Aapaa) to become the dust of all (i.e., to develop humility).

Reference: SIX SIGNS OF A PERSON OF HOLINESS OR PERFECTION

Jesus Christ would easily be a saint, and more, according to the above.

As a result, I can say that i understand to a degree what was meant by the fact that only if deeds are done in the name of Jesus Christ is it worth anything.

It is not that the Deeds are done in the name of Jesus Christ, but that the Deeds are done with a Saint or a Holy prophet who possesses particular traits and qualities in mind.

Thanks,

Lotus

PS James Uk Ji, if you are still an active member of this board, i would sincerely wish to find out what you think about it. Good Bad or Ugly.

 

[drkhalsa]

Faith without works is dead.

And grace comes from God, only He decides who receives it and why. Your perception of God is very very small. God is beyond the manmade rules of your religion. The beliefs you call the "truth" were outlined and defined at the council of nicea by MEN. God is beyond the reasoning of those men and beyond the words of any human language. God transends all of human kind's attempts to define him. Like the blind men trying to describe an elephant, we only have one perception of the truth. You describe the trunk of the elephant and another describes the ear, and yet another describes the leg and so on. What we need to do is take off our blinders and see that the God we ALL worship is far more than the little fragments of understanding that each of us has been holding up as the one and only truth.

What you're telling us here is in effect that there is only one truth and it is the trunk of the elephant. What I am saying is that is only a part and that the whole measure and scope of God is more than any of us can perceive and that to truly love him and transend all the made up rules that people have used to try to define him, you have to first give up allegience to doctrine and put your focus on God alone.

God is bigger than ANY religion -- including yours. We live in an infinite universe. Do you really think that a tiny litte gaggle of pompous catholic fathers at nicea were the only human beings to have ever understood truth throughout the ages of mankind? Everybody else is going to hell, right? Have you ever wondered about how illogical that is? Have you ever looked at the tiny dot on the globe that represents the life of Jesus? Have you ever looked at the size of the earth compared to the Sun? Or the Sun compared to other stars hundred of times it's size? Have you ever thought about the amount of energy it would take to create this universe? I have. One scientist figured it in Kilowatts. If you wrote the number as 1 followed by zeros on ticker tape it would encircle the earth at the equator 13 times. If you wrote the number 1 followed by zeros in books, it would fill a library of over a million volumes. God created this infinite universe with a single thought. And yet you think that your version of Christianity is the only section of humanity God has ever spoken to or revealed himself to? You think that you are the only ones that have the ability to know and love and be part of God? What gives you the right to define what God does and does not do or how he chooses to present himself to others? God can present himself to anybody any way He chooses at any time past or present and just because he has spoken to you in one way does NOT mean he cannot speak to another in another way. If that's the right way for you -- follow it with all your heart. However God reveals himself to each individual is how that individual should follow, and with everything within them give Him thanks and honor.

You discredit and diminish God by restricting your perception of who he is and what He is capable of. And you make him less than He is in your own mind by attempting to impose your limited perception of Him on others.

How dare you presume to declare how God does and does not reveal Himself to others. That is HIS job and HE will do it however HE desires. And that is between God and the individual he reveals himself to. If you would come to understand that, you just might find out that he has revealed MORE of Himself to others than He has to you because you are limiting him and others are not.

Think about it...

Dear carolineislands

I feel really fortunate to read the such a post that stems from great understanding without human boundaries .
Your post show clearly how blessed you are with grace of GOD

I dont know whether Jamesuk ( to whom it was adressed ) had a thought about it but YES reading your Post did light a 10000 watt bulb in my dark Mind

All I can say THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE POST

Jatinder Singh