One Infinite Creator In Sikhism, What Does It Mean?

[Ambarsaria]

Dr. Harbhajan Singh Seth ji thanks for your post. Some commets,

We have in Guru Granth Sahib the word. Guru, which i understand as Supreme teacher,

Supreme Teacher is the essence that I also find from my limited study. It can however be little confusing. Say when our Guru ji (say Guru Nanak Dev ji) write about a Guru in a hymn or sabad. Question becomes which Guru are they referring to? It is at instances a reference to the Creator as the creator is also a Supreme Teacher among having infinite other virtues.

Difficulty happens when people start mixing this up into a single meaning. So for some a worldly teacher (say a learned man/woman) becomes supreme teacher. Through rites and rituals such starts being revered versus respected. Continuing unabated this leads to people being treated like God.

There are great references to the company of the wise, the company of the pious and such as a way to achieve and facilitate or indirectly make avail of the "teacher" function.

Whereas this is beneficial it is not a prerequisite or a forced requirement.

• Prakash.S.Bagga ji's statement is incorrect that it is a requirement that your need a Guru (as in Teacher) to achieve understanding of Gur (Creator) and live based on such understanding. It is one of the mysteries of life that not all learn the same way or make use of teachers the same way. How long you need a teacher and at what stage of learning is a very individual aspect.
• Guru ji's had teachers. Perhaps teachers that gave them training in languages and then this the Guru ji's used to describe wisdom. Beyond that I believe the greater teacher for the Guru ji's perhaps was their linking to virtues of one creator. Perhaps no body around could teach them more versus what they self learned and then expressed.
• Giving names to wisdom, knowledge of the creator, or the creator as Ram Naamu, etc., is one of the greatest dis-services one can do to SIkhism. The common usage and understanding of this in the populace is literal and links to Hindu Ram, etc. No matter how you wrap it "Ram is Ram" and if you ask a 100 people in India they will associate Ram with Ram-Sita usage and then Ram being of God and God to be revered. SGGS makes no reference to such usage or understanding with any names and does not force names on you. SGGS is wisdom driven and not literal associations driven beyond use in Metaphors.
  

SGGS definitely communicates that if you denigrate or otherwise misapply wisdom against such company that you will not be helping yourself but actually would be making your learning ever so difficult.

then we have the word. Akalpurakh, which is infinite invisible unfathomable and ever present. The Akalpurakh in the form of Atma resides in every human being. At thousands of places in GuruGranth Sahib it says search Akalpurakh in yourself not anywhere outside.

Veer ji I read from my limited understanding the same way. It indirectly implies that one searches for greater understanding from within and lives according to such.

This is my humble interpretation. I may be totally wrong. I beg to please correct me
Rrspectfully
Dr. Harbhajan Singh Seth

Hope above is of some interest and of use in discourse.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

 

[davinderdhanjal]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
I note your post. To move further I list all the related words I can find in the Granth Sahib and their meanings from one dictionary. I have not found any of the words that you have repeated in your posts – so I await your definitions of the words you feel are Gurbani words related to GuR. Words that you have already used are:
Gur
GuR
GuRu
Sati GuRu
Ram
Ram Naamu
You may have another dictionary and I would be pleased if you would kindly share with us similarly.
From my checks the words I understand from your quotes and I may have quoted are:
gu = ਸੰ. ਧਾ- ਮਲ ਤ੍ਯਾਗਣਾ. ਬਾਣੀ ਬੋਲਨਾ. ਐਸਾ ਵਾਕ ਕਹਿਣਾ ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਅੱਖਰ ਨਾ ਸਮਝੇ. ਝਾੜੇ ਫਿਰਨਾ। (2) ਅਸਪਸ੍ਟ ਜਾਣ। (3) ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਲੱਗਾ ਗੁ ਭਵਿਸ਼੍ਯਤ ਦਾ ਬੋਧ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ
ru = ਸੰ. ਰੁ. ਧਾ. ਸ਼ਬਦ ਕਰਨਾ, ਦੁੱਖ ਦੇਣਾ. ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਕਰਨਾ, ਜਾਣਾ (ਗਮਨ ਕਰਨਾ).
rU = ਮੂੰਹ, ਚਿਹਰਾ। (2) ਕਾਰਣ. ਸਬਬ. ਹੇਤੁ। (3) ਅੱਗ ਸਾਮਣਾ। (4) ਆਸਾ. ਉੱਮੇਦ.
gur = (1) ਉਪਦੇਸ/ਸਿਖਿਆ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ, ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾਤਾ। (2) ਕਿਸੇ ਮਤ ਦਾ ਚਲਾਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਅਚਾਰੀਆ, ਕਰਤਾ। (3) ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ। (4) ਸਿਖ ਮਤ ਦੇ ਆਗੂਆਂ ਲਈ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ 'ਪਦ' (ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥ, ਨਿਰਣੈ)। (5) ਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਲਾ। (6) ਵ੍ਰਿਹਸਪਤਿ, ਦੇਵ ਗੁਰ (ਮਹਾਨਕੋਸ਼)। (7) ਅੰਤਹਕਰਣ, ਮਨ। (8) ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨ, ਵਡ (ਮਹਾਨਕੋਸ਼)। (9) ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ
guru = (1) ਮਤ ਦਾ ਚਲਾਣ ਵਾਲਾ, ਆਚਾਰੀਆ। (2) ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਕਰਤਾ, ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾਤਾ, ਸਿਖਿਆ ਦਾਤਾ। (3) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ। (4) ਸਿੱਖ ਮਤ ਦੇ ਆਗੂਆਂ ਲਈ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ 'ਸਤਿਕਾਰ-ਪਦ'
gurU = ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ, (ਭਾਵ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ।

nwm = (1) ਨਾਉਂ, ਕਿਸੇ ਵਸਤੂ ਦਾ ਬੋਧ ਰਵਾਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਸ਼ਬਦ। (2) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਬੋਧਕ ਸ਼ਬਦ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ, ਕਰਤਾਰ। (3) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ, ਹਰੀ ਨਾਮ।
nwmu =ਪਵਿੱਤਰ ਸ਼ਬਦ (ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ। (2) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ, ਹਰੀ। (3) ਨਾਂ।
nwmU = not a Gurbani word
nwim = (1) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੇ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੁਆਰਾ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੀਆਂ। (2) ਨਾਂ/ਨਾਮ ਦੁਆਰਾ, ਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ, ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ।
nwmI = ਸੰ. नामिन्. ਵਿ- ਨਾਮਵਾਲਾ। (2) ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ. ਵਿਖ੍ਯਾਤ। (3) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਕਰਤਾਰ. ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
I note your post. To move further I list all the related words I can find in the Granth Sahib and their meanings from one dictionary. I have not found any of the words that you have repeated in your posts – so I await your definitions of the words you feel are Gurbani words related to GuR. Words that you have already used are:
Gur
GuR
GuRu
Sati GuRu
Ram
Ram Naamu
You may have another dictionary and I would be pleased if you would kindly share with us similarly.
From my checks the words I understand from your quotes and I may have quoted are:
gu = ਸੰ. ਧਾ- ਮਲਤ੍ਯਾਗਣਾ. ਬਾਣੀਬੋਲਨਾ. ਐਸਾਵਾਕਕਹਿਣਾਜਿਸਦੇਅੱਖਰਨਾਸਮਝੇ. ਝਾੜੇਫਿਰਨਾ। (2) ਅਸਪਸ੍ਟਜਾਣ। (3) ਪੁਰਾਣੀਪੰਜਾਬੀਦੇਅੰਤਲੱਗਾਗੁਭਵਿਸ਼੍ਯਤਦਾਬੋਧਕਰਦਾਹੈ
ru = ਸੰ. ਰੁ. ਧਾ. ਸ਼ਬਦਕਰਨਾ, ਦੁੱਖਦੇਣਾ. ਕ੍ਰੋਧਕਰਨਾ, ਜਾਣਾ (ਗਮਨਕਰਨਾ).
rU = ਮੂੰਹ, ਚਿਹਰਾ। (2) ਕਾਰਣ. ਸਬਬ. ਹੇਤੁ। (3) ਅੱਗਸਾਮਣਾ। (4) ਆਸਾ. ਉੱਮੇਦ.
gur = (1) ਉਪਦੇਸ/ਸਿਖਿਆਦੇਣਵਾਲਾ, ਗਿਆਨਦਾਤਾ। (2) ਕਿਸੇਮਤਦਾਚਲਾਣਵਾਲਾਅਚਾਰੀਆ, ਕਰਤਾ। (3) ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਪ੍ਰਭੂ। (4) ਸਿਖਮਤਦੇਆਗੂਆਂਲਈਵਰਤਿਆਜਾਂਦਾ 'ਪਦ' (ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥ, ਨਿਰਣੈ)। (5) ਗੁਰੂਵਾਲਾ। (6) ਵ੍ਰਿਹਸਪਤਿ, ਦੇਵਗੁਰ (ਮਹਾਨਕੋਸ਼)। (7) ਅੰਤਹਕਰਣ, ਮਨ। (8) ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨ, ਵਡ (ਮਹਾਨਕੋਸ਼)। (9) ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ
guru = (1) ਮਤਦਾਚਲਾਣਵਾਲਾ, ਆਚਾਰੀਆ। (2) ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ਕਰਤਾ, ਗਿਆਨਦਾਤਾ, ਸਿਖਿਆਦਾਤਾ। (3) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ। (4) ਸਿੱਖਮਤਦੇਆਗੂਆਂਲਈਵਰਤਿਆਜਾਂਦਾ 'ਸਤਿਕਾਰ-ਪਦ'
gurU = ਗੁਰੂਦਾਗੁਰੂ, (ਭਾਵ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ।

nwm =(1) ਨਾਉਂ, ਕਿਸੇਵਸਤੂਦਾਬੋਧਰਵਾਉਣਵਾਲਾਸ਼ਬਦ। (2) ਪ੍ਰਭੂਬੋਧਕਸ਼ਬਦ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ, ਕਰਤਾਰ। (3) ਪ੍ਰਭੂਦਾਨਾਮ, ਹਰੀਨਾਮ।
nwmu =ਪਵਿੱਤਰਸ਼ਬਦ (ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂਦਾਨਾਮ। (2) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ, ਹਰੀ। (3) ਨਾਂ।
nwmU = not a Gurbani word
nwim = (1) ਪ੍ਰਭੂਦੇਨਾਮਦੇ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂਦੇਨਾਮਦੁਆਰਾ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂਦੇਨਾਮਵਿਚ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂਦੇਨਾਮਦੀਆਂ। (2) ਨਾਂ/ਨਾਮਦੁਆਰਾ, ਨਾਂਨਾਲ, ਨਾਮਵਿਚ।
nwmI = ਸੰ. नामिन्. ਵਿ- ਨਾਮਵਾਲਾ। (2) ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ. ਵਿਖ੍ਯਾਤ। (3) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਕਰਤਾਰ. ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ.

If the meanings of the words as depicted are very true then why dont we find interpretation of gurbanee according to above in any of the Tikkas.

My understanding is that the aboce meanings do not match the Gurbanee views.The true meanings of the above words one can find from within Gurbanee itself.That should be the true meanings.

The meaning given above are construed one and without consideration of grammar of the words.

Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[davinderdhanjal]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
Sorry to see you have not defined any of the words that you have been emphasising as ones that are pertinent to Gurbanee.
If these interjections are not verified it leads to corruption of documents as is the case of many ‘Sikh sakhis’ and as you mention ‘tikkas’ and various granths.
They are all written by people who have either researched the subject or have vested interest and may have errors.

I agree with you that the true meaning of the above can only be found from within the Gurbanee in Granth Sahib. However as I mention there is no words that you have been quoting like ‘NAAMu’, ‘RAAMu’, GuRu etc. as I have come across – however please correct me if I am wrong.
I am sure that you have some background to the origins and use of these words somewhere else and I am interested to see how these pearls can enhance our understanding of Gurbanee.

“The meaning given above are construed one and without consideration of grammar of the words”.
Please give an example so that we can be enlightened.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
Sorry to see you have not defined any of the words that you have been emphasising as ones that are pertinent to Gurbanee.
If these interjections are not verified it leads to corruption of documents as is the case of many ‘Sikh sakhis’ and as you mention ‘tikkas’ and various granths.
They are all written by people who have either researched the subject or have vested interest and may have errors.

I agree with you that the true meaning of the above can only be found from within the Gurbanee in Granth Sahib. However as I mention there is no words that you have been quoting like ‘NAAMu’, ‘RAAMu’, GuRu etc. as I have come across – however please correct me if I am wrong.
I am sure that you have some background to the origins and use of these words somewhere else and I am interested to see how these pearls can enhance our understanding of Gurbanee.

“The meaning given above are construed one and without consideration of grammar of the words”.
Please give an example so that we can be enlightened.

Pl let me know you follow enlgish version of SGGS or Gurmkhi version for reading Gurbanee.On hearing from you about this I shall be able to respond you accordingly.
At least you do realise where and how the things are somewhat beyong being as true as should be.
Thanks for your response
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[davinderdhanjal]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
I use Gurmukhi versions - sometimes even they are confusing but they are closer to being correct than the English versions.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
I use Gurmukhi versions - sometimes even they are confusing but they are closer to being correct than the English versions.

It is nice that you read SGGS in gurmukhi which is the real script.
You can go thru the following Sabad
ਰਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਡਤੇ ਅਧਿਕਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਸੁਤ ਦੇਹ ਗ੍ਰੇਹ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ ॥ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮੈ ਕਛੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਤੇਰੋ ਕਾਲ ਅਵਧ ਆਈ ॥੧॥ ਅਜਾਮਲ ਗਜ ਗਨਿਕਾ ਪਤਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਕੀਨੇ ॥ ਤੇਊ ਉਤਰਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਲੀਨੇ ॥੨॥ ਸੂਕਰ ਕੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮੇ ਤਊ ਲਾਜ ਨ ਆਈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਛਾਡਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਾਹੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਈ ॥੩॥ ਤਜਿ ਭਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਿਖੇਧ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਹੀ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਜਨ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਨੇਹੀ ॥੪॥੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 692

Pl see the word "RAM" in the very First line and the same word RAM in the last line which is with a matra of Aukad under its letter m.It is this word I write in english as RAMu (u is being used to indicate the matra Aukad in the word) This is ignored mostly by all.Why? No reason.
Pl give a thought how you would pronounce the word RAM in the last line of the sabad.
This is very important distiction in Gurbanee words.You can notice that nearly 70% of Gurbanee words are related to the matra of Aukad/Dulakad
for the Noun words.

I would suggest you to get familiar with some basics of Gurbanee grammar then you will have yourself more clear understanding of these words.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

It is nice that you read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in gurmukhi which is the real script.
You can go thru the following Sabad
ਰਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਡਤੇ ਅਧਿਕਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਸੁਤ ਦੇਹ ਗ੍ਰੇਹ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ ॥ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮੈ ਕਛੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਤੇਰੋ ਕਾਲ ਅਵਧ ਆਈ ॥੧॥ ਅਜਾਮਲ ਗਜ ਗਨਿਕਾ ਪਤਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਕੀਨੇ ॥ ਤੇਊ ਉਤਰਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਲੀਨੇ ॥੨॥ ਸੂਕਰ ਕੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮੇ ਤਊ ਲਾਜ ਨ ਆਈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਛਾਡਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਾਹੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਈ ॥੩॥ ਤਜਿ ਭਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਿਖੇਧ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਹੀ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਜਨ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਨੇਹੀ ॥੪॥੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 692

Pl see the word "RAM" in the very First line and the same word RAM in the last line which is with a matra of Aukad under its letter m.It is this word I write in english as RAMu (u is being used to indicate the matra Aukad in the word) This is ignored mostly by all.
Insulting nonsense. It is not ignored by all. People know Punjabi and don't need your "u" explanations. It is basic Punjabi.

Why?
Ask your self why you make these false statements and continuously do so in almost all posts directly or indirectly.

No reason.
Prakash.S.Bagga ji your phonetics use of "u", "U", capitals and lowercase is your own imagination. That is not phonetics that is recognized or useful. Dr. Thind's references are much more accurate including ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār

Pl give a thought how you would pronounce the word RAM in the last line of the sabad.
Focussing on a word is absolutely the wrong way to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You focus on all the words and read the context and the essence. No one word is either more or less important in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as they all make Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It is your fetish and limitation that you keep pushing as somehow the so called "grammar" and the right way of understanding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

This is very important distiction in Gurbanee words.You can notice that nearly 70% of Gurbanee words are related to the matra of Aukad/Dulakad for the Noun words.
Again people don't need lessons in Punjabi from yourself or condescending grammar inputs. A farmer in the field can listen and understand. Guru ji did not check people's diplomas of education when they conveyed and successfully did so. The meaning is higher than any grammar or other fixations. Rules and grammar are important but context and essence is supreme.

I would suggest you to get familiar with some basics of Gurbanee grammar then you will have yourself more clear understanding of these words.
Prakash.S.Bagga ji how many threads have you destroyed with the above line as well as your (GURU, GURu and GURoo) lines. In my estimation almost all threads that you participate in. This was well noted by spnadmin ji and so available in her comments if someone cares to check.

Prakash.S.Bagga

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Sat Sri Akal.

Mr AMBARSARIA Ji ,You are highly prejudiced so I cant give any comment.
Let any body else say what you feel.You are the only one against such phonetics .Since you find yourself unable to justify and your views are the reflection of your own frustration.Nothing else.Try to learn how to face the truth which is unknown hitherto.
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

Mr AMBARSARIA Ji ,You are highly prejudiced so I cant give any comment.
Let any body else say what you feel.You are the only one against such phonetics .Since you find yourself unable to justify and your views are the reflection of your own frustration.Nothing else.Try to learn how to face the truth which is unknown hitherto.

Brother before you destroy all that others do, say phonetics by Dr. Thind, you have to offer an alternative. Can you share with sangat your complete phonetics compilation of SGGS that they should follow based on your rules? I know the answer is going to be flowery NO.
Prakash.s.Bagga

It is far too easy to find faults or flag errors rather than to do. Unfortunately it foes not register in your contributions. Look at these and see how much work outside of just repetitive lines have you put into your posts since you joined. If you cannot see that as a honest Sikh then what can I say.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[chazSingh]

The sounds of Gurbani work alongside the deep meaning of the words

When i've had a busy day at work, and i walk outside the office, take in a deep breath, and say Satnaam SA TA NA AA MA along my God supported breathe....the word/vibration hits me deep within.

A child who has no concept of meaning of gurbani can experience a connection with these divine sounds/vibrations which flowed from Satnaam Ji through the breath of the living guru's.

they are a manifestation of the shabad that flows from Sach Khand through the whole universe and creation. If the phonetics didnt mean anything...maybe the gurus should have saved precious time and not spell checked what they wrote...


God bless all.

 

[Ambarsaria]

The sounds of Gurbani work alongside the deep meaning of the words

When i've had a busy day at work, and i walk outside the office, take in a deep breath, and say Satnaam SA TA NA AA MA along my God supported breathe....the word/vibration hits me deep within.

A child who has no concept of meaning of gurbani can experience a connection with these divine sounds/vibrations which flowed from Satnaam Ji through the breath of the living guru's.

they are a manifestation of the shabad that flows from Sach Khand through the whole universe and creation. If the phonetics didnt mean anything...maybe the gurus should have saved precious time and not spell checked what they wrote...


God bless all.

ChazSingh veer ji of course Phonetics is important to read to self quietly, loudly or to converse with others. Phonetics is part of learning a language all the way from the Alphabet to words and so on. It is true in all languages. It is not rocket science that Bagga ji makes it to be.

Dr. Thind has done exceptional service to do English Phonetics equivalents which one who can read Punjabi does not need to use.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

The sounds of Gurbani work alongside the deep meaning of the words

When i've had a busy day at work, and i walk outside the office, take in a deep breath, and say Satnaam SA TA NA AA MA along my God supported breathe....the word/vibration hits me deep within.

A child who has no concept of meaning of gurbani can experience a connection with these divine sounds/vibrations which flowed from Satnaam Ji through the breath of the living guru's.

they are a manifestation of the shabad that flows from Sach Khand through the whole universe and creation. If the phonetics didnt mean anything...maybe the gurus should have saved precious time and not spell checked what they wrote...


God bless all.

The day Sikhs start consideration of phonetics of words in interpretation of Gurbanee.The real understanding will develop near to what our GuRu ji envisagesas per Gurmati views..
But it seems we shall never allow to happen so .
Prakash.s.bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

The day Sikhs start consideration of phonetics of words in interpretation of Gurbanee.The real understanding will develop near to what our GuRu ji envisagesas per Gurmati views..
But it seems we shall never allow to happen so .
Prakash.s.bagga

Veer ji they already do and have been doing for last five plus hundred years. I do not know which planet you live on or are coming from! Even Sikh children do it at early age, I did too. :interestedmunda:

It seems you create mysteries out of nothing or great revelations about nothing. You thought Dr. Thind did all phonetics without recognizing the need! You are in a very septic self made cocoon that does not see the real world out there.

Sat Sri Aakl.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
You are unnecessarily taking a hide site of a learned person .You yourself know what is wrong with english translitration due to which you are remaining in confusion for correct and true message of Gurbanee.
How long one can hide the real truth of Gurbanee.by manipulation of the words for nothing benfit either to oneself or to the sangat as a whole.
I am not the looser or winner as person like you may think.I have been presenting my observation and shall contibnue to do so long as GuRu wants me .
I am bound by limitations of your thinking.
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Archived_member15]

We have in Guru Granth Sahib the word. Guru, which i understand as Supreme teacher, then we have the word. Akalpurakh, which is infinite invisible unfathomable and ever present. The Akalpurakh in the form of Atma resides in every human being. At thousands of places in GuruGranth Sahib it says search Akalpurakh in urself not anywher outside.
This is my humble interpretation.I may be totally wrong. I beg tomplease correct me
Rrspectfully
Dr. Harbhajan Singh Seth

cheerleader kudihug


And he is in ALL THINGS!


"...The Spirit of the Lord has filled the Universe...The whole universe before you is like a speck that tips the scales, and like a drop of morning dew that falls on the ground. But you are merciful to all, for you can do all things, and you overlook people's sins, so that they may repent. For you love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made, for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. How would anything have endured if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living. For your immortal spirit is in all things...For from the greatness and the beauty of created things their original author, by analogy, is seen...You, our God, are kind and true, patient, and ruling all things in mercy. For even if we sin we are yours, knowing your power...Lovers of evil [...] fail to know the one who formed them and inspired them with active souls and breathed a living spirit into them..."


- The Book of Wisdom (Holy Bible)



"...He who lives forever is the Creator of the whole universe; the Lord alone will be proved supreme and there is no other beside him; he steers the world with the span of his hand, and all things obey his Will. To none has he given power to proclaim his works; and who can search out his mighty deeds? Who can measure his majestic power? And who can fully recount his mercies? It is not possible to diminish or increase them, nor is it possible to fathom the wonders of the Lord. When human beings have finished, they are just beginning, and when they stop, they are still perplexed. What are human beings? The number of days in their life is great if they reach one hundred years, but the death of each one is beyond the calculation of all. Like a drop of water from the sea and a grain of sand, so are a few years among the days of eternity. That is why the Lord is patient with them and pours out his mercy upon them. He sees and recognizes that their end is miserable; therefore he grants them forgiveness all the more. The compassion of human beings is for their neighbors, but the compassion of the Lord is for every living thing...When the Lord created his works from the beginning, and, in making them, determined their boundaries, he arranged his works in an eternal order, and their dominion for all generations. They neither hunger nor grow weary, and they do not abandon their tasks. They do not crowd one another, and they never disobey his word. Then the Lord looked upon the earth, and filled it with his good things. With all kinds of living beings he covered its surface, and into it they must return. The Lord created human beings out of earth, and makes them return to it again. He gave them a fixed number of days, but granted them authority over everything on the earth...I will now call to mind the works of the Lord, and will declare what I have seen. By the word of the Lord his works are made; and all his creatures do his Will. The sun looks down on everything with its light, and the work of the Lord is full of his glory. The Lord has not empowered even his holy ones to recount all his marvellous works, which the Lord the Almighty has established so that the universe may stand firm in his glory. He searches out the abyss and the human heart; he understands their innermost secrets. For the Most High knows all that may be known; he sees from of old the things that are to come. He discloses what has been and what is to be, and he reveals the traces of hidden things. No thought escapes him, and nothing is hidden from him. He has set in order the splendours of his wisdom; he is from all eternity one and the same. Nothing can be added or taken away, and he needs no one to be his counsellor. How beautiful are all his works! even to the spark and fleeting vision! The universe lives and abides forever, to meet each need each creature is preserved. All of them differ, one from another, yet none of them has he made in vain, for each in turn, as it comes is good; can one ever see enough of their splendor?...Those who go down to the sea tell part of its story, and when we hear them we are thunderstruck; In it are his creatures, stupendous, amazing, all kinds of life, and the monsters of the deep. For him each messenger succeeds, and at his bidding accomplishes his Will. We could say more but could never say enough; let the final word be: "HE IS ALL!..."


- Book of Sirach (Holy Bible)




PS THE ABOVE QUOTED BOOKS OF WISDOM AND SIRACH ARE NOT IN PROTESTANT BIBLES BUT ONLY IN CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX ONES



"...Through God all things came to be, not one thing had its being but through him. All that came to be had life in him and that life was the light of men, a light that shines in the dark, a light that darkness cannot overpower...For That One was the Light of Truth, who enlightens every person that comes into the world..."


—The Gospel of John 1.2, Bible






"...In him we live, and move, and have our being...We are his children..."



—Saint Paul, Book of Acts 17.28 (Bible)





"...For from him, and through him and to him are all things..."




— Saint Paul, Book of Romans 8.36 (Bible)




"...There is one God who is father of all, over all, through all and within all..."


—Saint Paul, Book of Ephesians 4.6 (Bible)



"...God is love, and anyone who lives in love, lives in God, and God in him..."


—1 John 4.16 (Bible)

 

[davinderdhanjal]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
Thank you for the example. It seems that Naamu and Raamu may have been unfortunate ‘words’ to use for discussion of Gurmukhi grammar.
The vowels in Gurmukhi are not easy to literally interpret in Roman alphabet hence difficulty of achieving a consensus on the argument.
You have better knowledge of the grammar than I have and it also seems that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Mahan Kosh dictionaries suffer from the same problem for example they often seems to have the same meanings in both, and Mahan Kosh tends to veer one to the modern day wording that loses the intent of Granth Sahib. I list a few examples:
icq = (1) ਮਨ, ਦਿਲ, ਅੰਤਹਕਰਣ। (2) ਚਿਤ੍ਰਕਾਰੀ (ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥ)
icqu = ਮਨ, ਦਿਲ
dUir = (1) ਵਿਥ/ਫਾਸਲੇ/ਦੂਰੀਤੇ। (2) ਦੂਰਕਰਨਾ, ਹਟ/ਮਿਟਜਾਣਾ (ਭਾਵ)
dUr = (1) ਵਿਥ/ਫਾਸਲੇ/ਦੂਰੀਤੇ। (2) ਦੂਰਕਰਨਾ, ਹਟ/ਮਿਟਜਾਣਾ (ਭਾਵ)
dUrI = ਵਿੱਥ, ਫਾਸਲਾ
It is not difficult to assume that a novice (like me) would jump to the nearest word that seems to fit the inclination of the shabad. We also know that the gurus who wrote the Scriptures did not do so lightly and had a reason to use the vowels as necessary. It is also not true, as I understand it, to say that the particular vowel has been discarded now – that does not explain the intent in the Granth Sahib use.
It now is clear to me that you have pointed out a valid lack of information in our understanding of the grammar that needs the help of people like you who have the ability to help.
I recall a member (findingmyway, I believe) posed a question on similar lines where a shabad could be interpreted in a number of ways. I could not join in as my knowledge is nowhere near the members involved.
It would be useful if you can point us the way to the dictionary, books or other sources that would explain the differences between the commonly mistaken words, in fact, all Gurbani words. That would educate all the people as guru Arjan Dev wanted to do.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

prakash.s.bagga Ji,
Thank you for the example. It seems that Naamu and Raamu may have been unfortunate ‘words’ to use for discussion of Gurmukhi grammar.
The vowels in Gurmukhi are not easy to literally interpret in Roman alphabet hence difficulty of achieving a consensus on the argument.
You have better knowledge of the grammar than I have and it also seems that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Mahan Kosh dictionaries suffer from the same problem for example they often seems to have the same meanings in both, and Mahan Kosh tends to veer one to the modern day wording that loses the intent of Granth Sahib. I list a few examples:
icq = (1) ਮਨ, ਦਿਲ, ਅੰਤਹਕਰਣ। (2) ਚਿਤ੍ਰਕਾਰੀ (ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥ)
icqu = ਮਨ, ਦਿਲ
dUir = (1) ਵਿਥ/ਫਾਸਲੇ/ਦੂਰੀਤੇ। (2) ਦੂਰਕਰਨਾ, ਹਟ/ਮਿਟਜਾਣਾ (ਭਾਵ)
dUr = (1) ਵਿਥ/ਫਾਸਲੇ/ਦੂਰੀਤੇ। (2) ਦੂਰਕਰਨਾ, ਹਟ/ਮਿਟਜਾਣਾ (ਭਾਵ)
dUrI = ਵਿੱਥ, ਫਾਸਲਾ
It is not difficult to assume that a novice (like me) would jump to the nearest word that seems to fit the inclination of the shabad. We also know that the gurus who wrote the Scriptures did not do so lightly and had a reason to use the vowels as necessary. It is also not true, as I understand it, to say that the particular vowel has been discarded now – that does not explain the intent in the Granth Sahib use.
It now is clear to me that you have pointed out a valid lack of information in our understanding of the grammar that needs the help of people like you who have the ability to help.
I recall a member (findingmyway, I believe) posed a question on similar lines where a shabad could be interpreted in a number of ways. I could not join in as my knowledge is nowhere near the members involved.
It would be useful if you can point us the way to the dictionary, books or other sources that would explain the differences between the commonly mistaken words, in fact, all Gurbani words. That would educate all the people as guru Arjan Dev wanted to do.

Thank you Devender Dhanjal ji .I am pleased to note your views at least you have recognised the need of evaluating the understanding of Gurbanee as GuRu Arjan Dev ji Wishes.
You will appreciate that this thread is not related with this subject.Moreover the subject required careful deliberation too .You can share the details on this subject thru my ID mail psbagga@sms.co.in.
It would be my pleasure to do so.
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Astroboy]

Jay Sabh Mil Ke Akhan Paye, Vedda na hovei, ghaat na jaye

There's more said than seen. Now see a glimpse of God's creation, a very tiny part of HIM. Watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Zr7wNQw12l8

 

[gurugranthjifollower]

to understand the gurbani words better I look at the gurbani grammer by Principal Sahib Singh whose translation is regarded as the best so far. he does explain the difference in meaning of a word that has just 2 muktas,i.e. mn (mind) mnu or min. They all indicate towards mind but are used as of mind, in mind oe for mind etc. For clear interpretations see gurbani grammer by sahib singh