Philosophical (Western) Taoist And The Sikh

[spnadmin]

NamJap ji

Sometimes I think that threads (even the ones that you start) become heavy, laden down with serious language and thought, and it is too much for you. Then you have to break out with some humor and clown around. This last offering is a good example of that. :}{}{}:

It is the silliest thing to include in a discussion of WuWei and Lao Tzu and the Tao, and curiously it also makes sense. :idea: A lot of fun reading it. What next?

 

[spnadmin]

Anway,

“ The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naive enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody. ”

— Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Discourse on Inequality, 175

Reminds me of this

"The more morals and taboos there are,
The more cruelty afflicts people;
The more guns and knives there are,
The more factions divide people;
The more arts and skills there are,
The more change obsoletes people;
The more laws and taxes there are,
The more theft corrupts people."

From Conquer with Inaction (see link above)
​

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

I doubt this will add anything tom the discussion, but I want to write this.

A friend of mine, another Amritdhari Sikh, and I were discussing the topic of Sikhi and the Tao Te Ching. Our conclusion was that the philosophies of both systems are very similar, but there is one huge difference.

Taoism doesn't have Naam.

And that makes all the difference.

Mai

 

[Astroboy]

It is the silliest thing to include in a discussion of WuWei and Lao Tzu and the Tao, and curiously it also makes sense.

A lot of fun reading it. What next?

Now I come to the serious stuff and it is connected with Yin and Yang. And it's all about men and women. You're free to comment.

Here's the link about Female Tao (enjoy reading) :Chapter 11 : Gender-Inclusive Tao Te Ching : Seal Scripts, Commentary

 

[Astroboy]

Have you ever heard of the phrase "I need some breathing space please!"?

Well this not only is true of women saying it but also men :-
In Punjabi -

YouTube - Peke ja ni Begum - Anwar Masood ( Must Watch )

 

[Ozarks]

Taoism doesn't have Naam.

Mai Ji,
The way I see it the Tao shows "the Way" that things work out in accordance to the will/order that was laid down by the Creator/during the creation of the Created. It tends not to directly address the Creator, but instead address the apparent Will of the Creator. There are many correlations between the SGGS and the Tao Te Ching when delving into that Will and/or our role in it. The chapters of the Tao are bite size pieces of understanding the Will. Where as the SGGS, while confirming much of the Tao, is primarily concerned with bring harmony and understanding to seekers of the Creator.
The Tao shows us things we already know and have seen through a new light. It does not describe the light itself. That is not the way of the Tao as the it is said in the Tao the the Way that can be explained is not true. This is a parallel of where the SGGS states that no matter how hard you try you cannot describe the Creator. The Way and Waheguru are the same. (replace "Way" with "Waheguru" when reading the Tao and see what you think)

The Tao Te Ching describes the apparent Will of the Creator and sets forth an understanding for the benefit to our life and thus to our soul, whereas the Naam becomes a representation of the Creator to our mind and sets forth a point of focus for the benefit of our soul and thus to our life.

 

[spnadmin]

NamJap ji That was classic. images spoke louder than words for sure. P/S usually when a man says "I need space" he is getting ready to jump out of a relationship. Either literally or figuratively. Seems Mr. Masood was in it for the long haul though.

 

[Ishna]

I hope the current sangat won't mind me resurrecting yet another old thread.

Jumping straight from Ozark ji's post above, I have discovered myself stuck in an infinite loop.

It seems that Tao is a description of Hukam. And previously I've heard that Hukam and Naam are synonomous... So does Tao in fact = Naam or have I got this all mixed up?

I'm inclined to say that Hukam (laws of creation) comes from Naam (Waheguru, Divine identity). But I'm only guessing.

There is no denying the striking similarities between concepts in the Tao Te Ching and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Verse 32 - translation by Jonathan Star
...
This world is nothing but the glory of Tao
expressed through different names and forms
One who sees the things of this world
as being real and self-existent
has lost sight of the truth
To him, every word becomes a trap
every thing becomes a prison

One who knows the truth
that underlies all things
lives in this world without danger
To him, every word reflects the universe
every moment brings enlightenment

Rivers and streams are born of the ocean
All creation is born of Tao
Just as all water flows back to become the ocean
All creation flows back to become Tao.

 

[spnadmin]

This is brief, but I think you can see some important differences:

Basic teachings and Beliefs of Taoism:Taoism, or "The Way," is the natural order, or the force that flows through all living things. Tao is less a Deity than transcendent reality; however, as Taoism in China is inextricably bound up with folk traditions, there are also a variety of minor deities, which are generally considered aspects of the Tao. Taoists seek equilibrium above all else, and many traditional practices, such as acupuncture or other forms of 'Chinese medicine' are founded on this principal.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/taoism/453-taosim-an-introduction.html

This more in-depth discussion matches your thinking in many ways Ishna ji

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/taoism/35108-the-tao-of-englightenment.html