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Promoting JHATKA

Mar 26, 2006
458
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well.. wrestling Akharas are found all over Hindustan and there have been different sects who have established Akharas ..the type of militarisation required to fight the Mughals was organised by Guru Hargobindsinghji Maharaj Chchatvi Paadshahi..and by Dasve Paadshah Guru Gobindsinghji Maharaj ...and none of the previous Gurus had established any military movements ...in fact even Guru Tegh Bahadur Maharaj dint think of military resistance ..His Highness went to the Mughal invader with a dialogue approach

Now regarding the clan ..The Gurus were of the Khatri clan..Khatris are Kshatriyas who are into business ..its a more combo of a warrior and a baniya ...i myself am one ..i mean dont take it wrongly i m not into the Jaat Paat thing ..but this is to just share some info i have known..
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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I think the issue is not about suffereing or pain, but about appeasement. The whole idea of Sacrifice is abhorrent to the Sikh, and Halal/Kosher (and even Bali - Hindu sacrifice), is sacrifice/ritual slaughter.
!
Randip ji,

I am not in disagreement whatsoever with your comment. In fact I take it as the basic premise of any differentiation between halal and kosher slaughtering of animals. :yes:

My intention was solely that of adding some details to show how the same act of slaughtering an animal is a distinctly different in approach from one religious tradition to another.

Yes, appeasement of Jehovah is true in both the Muslim and Jewish traditions -- but one, the Muslim tradition, requires suffering to appease; and the other, the Jewish tradition, seeks to minimize suffering.

In halal when the animal is slaughtered the butcher (who can be any male above the age of 14 years) cries out, Allah Akbar! This is the same cry uttered when a woman is stoned to death. So, appeasement comes from the animal's suffering.

In the kosher slaughter of an animal the male must be trained and certified by a designated rabbi and there is no prayer to accompany the act. Suffering does not lead to appeasement, and in fact Jews believe that the suffering taints the sacrifice and the act will not be "kosher" or pure.

So appeasement is true for both but suffering is not required by both.
:idea:

BTW - You probably know this, but "kosher" does not refer to the killing of animals but to a state of purity. There are many practices in Orthodox Judaism that are referred to as "kosher" ranging from cleaning an oven with a blowtorch prior to cooking Passover or wedding meals to the requirement that a woman take a ritual bath after her menses end each month. The kosher slaughter of animals means using a procedure that does not contaminate the meat. That's all for now. :}8-:
 

Randip Singh

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well.. wrestling Akharas are found all over Hindustan and there have been different sects who have established Akharas ..the type of militarisation required to fight the Mughals was organised by Guru Hargobindsinghji Maharaj Chchatvi Paadshahi..and by Dasve Paadshah Guru Gobindsinghji Maharaj ...and none of the previous Gurus had established any military movements ...in fact even Guru Tegh Bahadur Maharaj dint think of military resistance ..His Highness went to the Mughal invader with a dialogue approach

Now regarding the clan ..The Gurus were of the Khatri clan..Khatris are Kshatriyas who are into business ..its a more combo of a warrior and a baniya ...i myself am one ..i mean dont take it wrongly i m not into the Jaat Paat thing ..but this is to just share some info i have known..

Yes wrestling Akhara's ARE found all over Hindustan, but don't you think this is unusual for Bhakhta's?

When you climb a mountain you have acclimatise, the wrestling was one step in the direction of militirisation.

Well the Khatri's I have met (especially Sikh) are very tough. They will not hesitate in drawing the sword when needed.

Guru Teg Bahadhur fought in many military campaigns with the 6th master. Although he was peaceful towards the end of his life, he was by no means not averse to using the sword.

I am from the school of thought that has found no difference in the message from the 1st Nanak to the 10th.

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਉ ਤੁਹਿ ਸਾਧ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਕੀ ਸੀਸੁ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਗੋਇ
कबीर जउ तुहि साध पिरम की सीसु काटि करि गोइ ॥
Kabīr ja*o ṯuhi sāḏẖ piramm kī sīs kāt kar go*ė.
Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball.


Page 1105, Line 5
ਖੇਤੁ ਜੁ ਮਾਂਡਿਓ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਅਬ ਜੂਝਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਉ ॥੧॥
खेतु जु मांडिओ सूरमा अब जूझन को दाउ ॥१॥
Kẖėṯ jo māʼndi*o sūrmā ab jūjẖan ko ḏā*o. ||1||
The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1||
Devotee Kabir - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1105, Line 5


ਸੂਰਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੀਐ ਜੁ ਲਰੈ ਦੀਨ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ॥
सूरा सो पहिचानीऐ जु लरै दीन के हेत ॥
Sūrā so pahicẖānī*ai jo larai ḏīn kė hėṯ.
He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion.
Devotee Kabir - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
 
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Randip Singh

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May 25, 2005
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!
Randip ji,

I am not in disagreement whatsoever with your comment. In fact I take it as the basic premise of any differentiation between halal and kosher slaughtering of animals. :yes:

My intention was solely that of adding some details to show how the same act of slaughtering an animal is a distinctly different in approach from one religious tradition to another.

Yes, appeasement of Jehovah is true in both the Muslim and Jewish traditions -- but one, the Muslim tradition, requires suffering to appease; and the other, the Jewish tradition, seeks to minimize suffering.

In halal when the animal is slaughtered the butcher (who can be any male above the age of 14 years) cries out, Allah Akbar! This is the same cry uttered when a woman is stoned to death. So, appeasement comes from the animal's suffering.

In the kosher slaughter of an animal the male must be trained and certified by a designated rabbi and there is no prayer to accompany the act. Suffering does not lead to appeasement, and in fact Jews believe that the suffering taints the sacrifice and the act will not be "kosher" or pure.

So appeasement is true for both but suffering is not required by both.
:idea:

BTW - You probably know this, but "kosher" does not refer to the killing of animals but to a state of purity. There are many practices in Orthodox Judaism that are referred to as "kosher" ranging from cleaning an oven with a blowtorch prior to cooking Passover or wedding meals to the requirement that a woman take a ritual bath after her menses end each month. The kosher slaughter of animals means using a procedure that does not contaminate the meat. That's all for now. :}8-:

I see your point.

Thanks
 

lionprinceuk

(previously Lion_Prince_Jatinder)
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Jun 29, 2004
162
39
west london
I don't see too much point of jhatka unless we are doing it ourselves, or at least it is being done in front of us, like they do outside Hazoor Sahib I believe?

Only reason I can see for jhatka to be supplied is if very bad and inhumance practises are being used against animals and killing them. Jhatka is also important in hindu kshatriya warrior traditions.
 
Mar 26, 2006
458
96
thats absolutely right Jatinder veerji ..yes ..inhuman practices like halal..is not permitted by our Panth ..the entire Bharat has the practice of Jhatka ..be it any religion ..Sikhi, Buddhist, Shakt ..be it any community of indian origin and religion which allows meat ..

the animal too has to be kept in a good condition ..well fed ..bathed ..the swift blow decapitates the animal ..thus disconnecting the brain connectivity ...the feeling of pain comes from the brain..after loss of connectivity there is no pain..contrary to this the muslim/jewish way bleeds the animal to death without decapitating ...there is a cut laid on the throat and the animal bleeds .feeling pain..since the connectivity to the brain is active ..

guys i have shot some videos ..one is jhatka and the other is patka ...anyone wanting to watch it can let me know ..or if the majority request the moderators we can have a link ..here right here ..

the prob is we sikhs are not standing strongly for jhatka certification ...others will follow ..but we need to take the lead ..
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
14,500
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Rajkhalsa ji

Please do not post the video if any pics come up on the web page. A simple link with a warning that the content may be upsetting or offensive is OK. That way people can decide for themselves whether to look. Thank you.
 

lionprinceuk

(previously Lion_Prince_Jatinder)
SPNer
Jun 29, 2004
162
39
west london
guys i have shot some videos ..one is jhatka and the other is patka ...anyone wanting to watch it can let me know ..or if the majority request the moderators we can have a link ..here right here ..

the prob is we sikhs are not standing strongly for jhatka certification ...others will follow ..but we need to take the lead ..

could you put these videos up on somewhere like youtube as well?
The thing is, there were quite a few chatka videos on youtube but they seem to have been taken off, i cannot seem to find them. The only one I could seem to watch last month was one that wasn't a proper chatka, or as one person described it as fatka I believe, as the strike didn't go quite well.

And as for chatka certification, there could be some standard to show that an animal has been killed with the chatka method, or to train people to kill properly in this method.

However I would disagree if this certification was used the same way muslmaans use their halal certification, as in to separate themselves from society to only be able to eat their own type of meat. I do not think that sikhs, at least those that are not amrit-dhari khalsa singhs, should be super-duper strict, in that the meat always has to be chatka, and we definetly shouldn't become shocked if non-chatka is consumed, although maybe we should if halal is consumed, especially by amrit-dhari khalsa singhs.
So basically, not to be tribalistic about it, and rather have it as an acceptable standard. I am sure this standard would be welcomed by indians and hindus, and also as a traditional standard.
 
Mar 26, 2006
458
96
hindus welcome chatka..the vedas talk abt it ..and bro there r 3 ways .its either jhatka, patka (2-3 strokes, the first one however cuts in, slicing the connectivity to the brain) or kosher or halal...well i know may of hindus and sikhs dont want to be strict abt it since they would miss their favorite arabic recipes ..well i dont want to say anything abt such people ..to each his own..however i would remain strict abt it ..i can only check my commitment ...my only concern here is ..can there be a unted force to enforce jhatka certification ...go through the search engines ..u will find 1000s of websites displaying info abt halal restaurants in the world ..displaying kosher ...ALL over the world !!! and if we cannot budge an inch from here..then i leave it to Akaal Purakh the Merciful Maha Akaal...
 
Mar 26, 2006
458
96
BBC NEWS | UK | Halal and Kosher slaughter 'must end'

The method of animal slaughter used by Jews and Muslims should be banned immediately, according to an independent advisory group.

The Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), which advises the government on how to avoid cruelty to livestock, says the way Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals.
Both the Jewish and Muslim religions demand that slaughter is carried out with a single cut to the throat, rather than the more widespread method of stunning with a bolt into the head before slaughter.
Kosher and Halal butchers deny their method of killing animals is cruel and have expressed anger over the recommendation.
'Clearly suffering'
One worshipper at the Central London Mosque told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Everything about the Islamic way of life is under attack so it makes you wonder if this is actually about humanity to animals."
Peter Jinman, president of the British Veterinary Association said vets respected people's religious beliefs, but urged Muslims to be respectful of animals too.
start_quote.gif
The brain is instantaneously starved of blood and there is no time to start feeling any pain
end_quote.gif



Muslim Council of Great Britain


"We're looking at what is acceptable in the moral and ethical society we live in," he told Today.
FAWC said it wanted an end to the exemption currently allowed for Kosher and Halal meat from the legal requirement to stun animals first.
It says cattle can take up to two minutes to bleed to death - amounting to an abuse of the animals.
"This is a major incision into the animal and to say that it doesn't suffer is quite ridiculous," said FAWC chairwoman, Dr Judy MacArthur Clark.
Compassion in World Farming backed the call, saying: "We believe that the law must be changed to require all animals to be stunned before slaughter."
'Way of life'
Muslims and Jews argue that their long established method of slaughter results in a sudden loss of blood from the head, causing animals to feel virtually nothing.
_39117105_shop203.jpg

inline_dashed_line.gif


Q&A: Animal slaughter


They say they will fight any attempt to prevent a practice required by their religion and central to their way of life.
One rabbi, who had been practicing the Jewish method of animal slaughter for around 40 years, told BBC News: "The process takes a fraction of a second.
"With a very, very sharp knife all the vessels in the neck are severed and that means there's no blood going to the brain and the animal loses consciousness very rapidly and dies soon after that."
The Muslim Council of Britain says animals are not distressed when they are slaughtered.
"It's a sudden and quick haemorrhage. A quick loss of blood pressure and the brain is instantaneously starved of blood and there is no time to start feeling any pain," said spokesman Dr Majid Katme.
The Humanists movement, which has previously called for the abolition of ritual slaughter, said ethical values should be put above religious ones.
"There is no imperative for Muslims or Judaists to eat meat produced in this manner," said spokesman Roy Saich. "There is no reason why they should not simply abstain from eating meat altogether if they do not wish to eat the same meat as the rest of us."
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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19,219
I have read recently that Shiromani Akali Dal is buying controlling shares in Punjabi cable TV.

So that means there will be less not more information and more not less disinformation on Punjabi television.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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truefriend ji

You have posted the same comments on two threads. This is spamming. In addition I have made this remarks on the other thread, Is halal meat proven scientifically right?

Please be warned. These are the remarks that apply to your replies on both this and the other thread.
There are TOS violations with tone, content, misuse of fonts, and proselytizing.

The most recent comment has been moved to the moderation section for review by moderators.

After discussion it may be returned to this thread.

A reminder to forum members to avoid using bold font, ALL CAPS, and color font, particularly all 3 together. There is no need to shout at the membership. Bold and/or color fonts in red or blue are used by Aman Singh ji or by me when moderation comments are being made to distinguish our personal views from forum management. Thank you.
 
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