Learn Punjabi Punjabi SPN - Vocabulary And More

[dalsingh]

Antonia

Lets see how many different types of birds we can learn in Panjabi. I'm not sure of the English equivalent of some of the Panjabi ones I know. For instance is a tittarh a pheasant, partridge quail or what? What is a bataira? I used to think it was a pigeon but then that is called a kabooterh. Confusion confusion.

 

[spnadmin]

re: Scholarly Books List

Dalsingh ji

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib is a good starting place -- if you don't start right away with the dictionary, but read the English against the Punjabi, it exercises the brain better.

One problem though is that sometimes the words are used by the gurus in a global way -- for example, chatrikh is used but chatrikh is a family of songbirds including mocking birds, pheasant, pea{censored}s, cuckoos, and a few others. So when Guruji says Chatrikh you don 't which one Guruji was thinking about. Same problem with "tittarh" as you point out -- it a category that includes pheasant, partridge and quail.

Here are some starters -- use a search engine to find them, instead of the dictionary for brain exercise.

Swan
Hawk
Falcon (trick question)
Cuckoo
Crane
Heron
Vulture
Crow
Pea{censored}

Big mix-up area: the "kokil" and the "kohel" - are they different words for the same bird, or not? So what bird are we talking about here? Heh Heh

But once we get these nouns memorized then we can work on changing them around with verbs to make different sentences.

Then we can enjoy "elephant" and "crocodile" -- these are only slight problems. More than one word for both.

Futurekaur ji, forgive us for going off topic, but we are having a little fun.

 

[dalsingh]

re: Scholarly Books List

Ok, here goes:

Swan - Hans
Hawk - Ill or baaj?
Falcon (trick question) - Baaj
Cuckoo - Kokil
Crane - Bagula
Heron - Bag
Vulture - Gilje
Crow - Kaa (kawaan)
Pea{censored} - Mor

Then we can enjoy "elephant" and "crocodile" -- these are only slight problems. More than one word for both.

Get used to that. Plenty of different words for each thing in Panjabi.

 

[spnadmin]

re: Scholarly Books List

Dalsingh ji

Good job. Guruji checks you out as correct. All but vulture -

http://www.searchgurbani.com/sggs.php?word=vulture&Book=ggs&Action=Page&Param=693ਬਾਰਹ ਜੋਜਨ ਛਤ੍ਰੁ ਚਲੈ ਥਾ ਦੇਹੀ ਗਿਰਝਨ ਖਾਈ ॥੨॥
baareh jojan shhathra chalai thhaa dhaehee girajhan khaaee ||2||
Their royal procession extended over sixty miles, and yet their bodies were eaten by vultures.

But the difference looks like old punjabi versus modern punjabi. What do you think?

 

[Astroboy]

re: Scholarly Books List

Here's another bird - Nightingale - Koil

ਕਾਲੀ ਕੋਇਲ ਤੂ ਕਿਤ ਗੁਨ ਕਾਲੀ ॥
काली कोइल तू कित गुन काली ॥
Kālī ko*il ṯū kiṯ gun kālī.
O black bird, what qualities have made you black?
ਅਪਨੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕੇ ਹਉ ਬਿਰਹੈ ਜਾਲੀ ॥
अपने प्रीतम के हउ बिरहै जाली ॥
Apnė parīṯam kė ha*o birhai jālī.
I have been burnt by separation from my Beloved".

 

[spnadmin]

re: Scholarly Books List

NamJap,

Guruji says, Yes -- but ko*il is another spelling for kohel. The same thing.

Here is the tricky part about ko*il in that shabad. Guruji is saying "black bird" and the ko*il or kohel is a mocking bird. But only the male is a dark purple to black color. So a reader could think that Bhagat ji is talking about a crow or raven -- but not so. That threw me off the first time I was looking into the subject of birds in Gurbani.

What about crocodile and elephant? More than one word for each.

This is a lot of fun, now with 3 people involved. Maybe we should move these posts on learning Punjabi here in the forum to a special thread. What do you think?

 

[dalsingh]

re: Scholarly Books List

Dalsingh ji

Good job. Guruji checks you out as correct. All but vulture -

ਬਾਰਹ ਜੋਜਨ ਛਤ੍ਰੁ ਚਲੈ ਥਾ ਦੇਹੀ ਗਿਰਝਨ ਖਾਈ ॥੨॥
baareh jojan shhathra chalai thhaa dhaehee girajhan khaaee ||2||
Their royal procession extended over sixty miles, and yet their bodies were eaten by vultures.

But the difference looks like old punjabi versus modern punjabi. What do you think?

I don't think its that modern. Rattan Singh Bhangu mentions this as a slang term used by Khalsa warriors to describe Afghan invaders of the mid 1700s in Panth Prakash. Maybe its the difference between Sant Bhasha and colloquial Panjabi?

Another very likely explanation is the difference in pronunciation between regions in Panjab. For instance some people will say vekho (for look) whilst in other areas they will exchange the v/w sound for d and say dekho.

 

[dalsingh]

re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

This is a lot of fun, now with 3 people involved. Maybe we should move these posts on learning Punjabi here in the forum to a special thread. What do you think?

We should do this so we don't annoy people and get off topic!

 

[spnadmin]

Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Respected Forum Members,

A conversation was started earlier today about learning Punjabi grammar and vocabulary. Turns out this conversation was enjoyable, but not consistent with the thread topic. So this new thread is the new home for the ongoing discussion.

We have been discussing ways to learn vocabulary, experiences learning a new language, resources that work for those of us who have been struggling or want to learn more, and more.

Please participate.

Note to other leaders and admin. I had a hard time deleting the earlier comments from the thread that pertain to the Scholarly Literature thread. Every time I tried, this entire thread was deleted and had to be reinstated. So the older messages may have to stay put.

 

[dalsingh]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Here are some for you to find Antonia.

Duck
Sparrow
Parrot
Dove
Hen

 

[futurekaur]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

This is a great idea! I'm joining.
Dalsingh ji;
I agree with you entirely about learning languages from drill. That's how I was taught in my old-fashioned school: French, Russian, then in university: Italian, 2 years ago reading German, last year now Latin. Hmm
isn't hawk : baz or is z pronounced as J?

Elephant: hasti
Crocodile: muggar

 

[dalsingh]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

OK - Confession aad. I realised a few things today from searching Guru Granth Sahib. Firstly that the words that are commonly used in Panjabi today for many things are sometimes very different from the language in the granth.


Duck - b'tackh - b`qk
Sparrow - chirhee
Parrot - tohta - qoqw
Dove - ghugee G`ugI
Hen - kookri or murghi ku`kVI, murZI

Elephant - hathi - hwQI but also hsq, hsqI, , &Il, mYgl (i've never heard of the others but presume &Il may have a Persian basis)
Crocodile - mugarmuch - m`gr m`C or less commonly the Persian nihung where the old warriors got their name from.

isn't hawk : baz or is z pronounced as J?

I think both are right. The difference is between the use of a bindi on the feet of a jhaja which changes it to a z sound. Apparently the use of the dotted last line of the Panjabi alphabet didn't really take off until Dasmesh Pita's time.

 

[dalsingh]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

ਗਦਹੁ ਕੁਤੇ ਬਿਲੀਆ ਇਲ ਮਲਾਲੀ ਗਿਦੜ ਛਾਰਾ ।
gadahu kutay bileeaa il malaalee gidarh chhaaraa|
Cries of donkeys, dogs, cats, kites, blackbirds and jackals cannot control our lives.

As you interested in birds I found this from Bhai Gurdas's vaars. I noticed they are translating ill as kite and I have not come across malaalee (blackbird) before.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Dalsingh ji

This is a good one for the grammar exercise. It has several animals named. And we can switch nouns, to practice making sentences with new vocabulary.

I feel kinda strange right now --

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

ਗਦਹੁ ਕੁਤੇ ਬਿਲੀਆ ਇਲ ਮਲਾਲੀ ਗਿਦੜ ਛਾਰਾ ।
gadahu kutay bileeaa il malaalee gidarh chhaaraa|
Cries of donkeys, dogs, cats, kites, blackbirds and jackals cannot control our lives.

As you interested in birds I found this from Bhai Gurdas's vaars. I noticed they are translating ill as kite and I have not come across malaalee (blackbird) before.

Malaalee is there. A kite is a member of the hawk, baaj, family.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

futurekaur ji

You point is well taken. But what about a compare and contrast. Modern and SGGS vocabulary. Also I can keep splitting threads. It is making me go blind.:{;o:

If we use the link to http://www.ijunoon.net/punjabi_dic/mean.asp , we can find the masculine and feminine form in modern Punjabi.

Seeing the similarities and the differences from old to new has its own value because the structure of the words remains in many cases. But when we all have our grammar books, then the forum will have a new thread on grammar that will be on the money. Since this thread is looking more about vocabulary, the maybe the thread title should change.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

ਗਦਹੁ ਕੁਤੇ ਬਿਲੀਆ ਇਲ ਮਲਾਲੀ ਗਿਦੜ ਛਾਰਾ ।
gadahu kutay bileeaa il malaalee gidarh chhaaraa|
Cries of donkeys, dogs, cats, kites, blackbirds and jackals cannot control our lives.

As you interested in birds I found this from Bhai Gurdas's vaars. I noticed they are translating ill as kite and I have not come across malaalee (blackbird) before.

One interesting find is that "jackal" is the same in modern n. giddar. M; giddari. F English to Punjabi Dictionary

and in Gurbani, gidharh

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But now:

For donkey the modern is n. khotta. M; gadha. M; gadda. M and there is no feminine form.
English to Punjabi Dictionary

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib

ਪਹਿਰਿ ਚੋਲਨਾ ਗਦਹਾ ਨਾਚੈ ਭੈਸਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
pehir cholanaa gadhehaa naachai bhaisaa bhagath karaavai ||1||
Putting on the skirt, the donkey dances around, and the water buffalo performs devotional worship. ||1||

But there is also this

ਸੂਕਰ ਸੁਆਨ ਗਰਧਭ ਮੰਜਾਰਾ ॥
sookar suaan garadhhabh manjaaraa ||
The human is a pig, a dog, a donkey, a cat,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For dog, modern Punjabi n. kutta. M; kutti. F; 1. Mad dog. Halka. M; halkaya. M; 2. A small dog. Khanda. M; katura. M; gular. M;
English to Punjabi Dictionary

ਲਬੁ ਕੁਤਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਚੂਹੜਾ ਠਗਿ ਖਾਧਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ॥
lab kuthaa koorr chooharraa thag khaadhhaa muradhaar ||
Greed is a dog; falsehood is a filthy street-sweeper. Cheating is eating a rotting carcass.

and also in many places,

ਕੂਕਰ ਕੂੜੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਚੈ ਪਚਾਨੁ ॥
kookar koorr kamaaeeai gur nindhaa pachai pachaan ||
Those who practice falsehood are dogs; those who slander the Guru shall burn in their own fire.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For cat, modern Punjabi n. 1. Billi. F; billa. M;
English to Punjabi Dictionary

And in Sri Guru Granth Sahib it looks different indeed,

ਜਮੁ ਮੰਜਾਰੁ ਕਹਾ ਕਰੈ ਮੋਰ ॥੨॥
jam manjaar kehaa karai mor ||2||
So what can the cat of death do to me? ||2||

ਮਿਰਤੁ ਮੰਜਾਰ ਪਸਾਰਿ ਮੁਖੁ ਨਿਰਖਤ ਭੁੰਚਤ ਭੁਗਤਿ ਭੂਖ ਭੁਖਨਾ ॥
mirath manjaar pasaar mukh nirakhath bhunchath bhugath bhookh bhukhanaa ||
The cat of death, with his mouth wide-open, is watching you. You eat food, but you are still hungry.

But wait a minute! 4 times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, a cat will very like billi

ਘਰ ਕੀ ਬਿਲਾਈ ਅਵਰ ਸਿਖਾਈ ਮੂਸਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਡਰਾਈ ਰੇ ॥
ghar kee bilaaee avar sikhaaee moosaa dhaekh ddaraaee rae ||
The house-cat has been taught otherwise, and is terrified upon seeing the mouse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For pig, in modern Punjabi n. sur. M; surni. F; badd. M;
English to Punjabi Dictionary

This seems to be the biggest difference between modern and old, because nearly always in Gurbani, a pig is

ਸੂਕਰ ਕੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮੇ ਤਊ ਲਾਜ ਨ ਆਈ ॥
sookar kookar jon bhramae thoo laaj n aaee ||
You have wandered in reincarnation, as pigs and dogs - did you feel no shame?

ਸੂਕਰ ਸੁਆਨ ਗਰਧਭ ਮੰਜਾਰਾ ॥
sookar suaan garadhhabh manjaaraa ||
The human is a pig, a dog, a donkey, a cat,

 

[dalsingh]

re: Scholarly Books List

Futurekaur ji and other jios

Let's home that my level of suspicion is not raging like a grass fire right now. As reported, i was able to purchase one of 2 remaining copies on Amazon of C. Shackle's book Introduction to the Sacred Language of the Sikhs. Yesterday, I received an email asking me to confirm the details of purchase by going to a link. Which I did. And at the link it said there were no more books. So I wrote back for a clarification ans was told -- "Have no fear" you are going to receive this book. Well today, I received another email from Amazon stating -- Sorry, the book is unavailable.

Here is why I am suspicious. I did tell Amazon how important that book was to a small group of people. This evening I checked a bookfinder's site and discovered that Amazon is selling that book in UK and in California for more than 300 dollars than I paid two days ago. Are you thinking what I am thinking?

I will pray to be less cynical -- but right now -- I am feeling cynical.

Poor thing.

 

[Astroboy]

re: Scholarly Books List

[SIZE=-0]ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੀ ਜਿਗ੍ਯਾਸੂ ਲਈ ਕੋਇਲ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ।

This translates - In Gurbani, the word Koel has been used for a premi-devotee.
[/SIZE]

 

[spnadmin]

Yes, Dalsingh ji

There have been many mishaps... I cannot move the vocabulary related threads over here. And last night the new thread ended up in the deleted posts section where I was not able to rescue it. Aman ji got it up and running this morning, but then something else happened that I don 't understand. Eventually it will get st straightened out. You can use this thread to get it back in play.