Sikhi Quasi-Pragmatists And Quasi-Spiritualists, Care To Explain?

[BhagatSingh]

@Harkiran Kaur

I don't mean "you" lol. I am referring to any Sikh who is a materialist. They can be materialist if they want, but they can't say Guru Sahibs were materialists because they were not.

@chazSingh

Ah I see what you mean. I agree.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Do you then believe, that there is a possibility to 'Know' whilst alive in this only life that you currently know?

Guru Sahibs say it is possible to 'know' whilst alive in this only life we currently know.

This life comes with this body, and this body is a tool for understanding things that are here and beyond.

I would say that if one does not understand the 'here and now', they cannot understand the 'there and beyond'.

If one were to put materialism and spiritualism aside and read texts that are full of wisdom, the words of our ancestors who had discovered such secrets, one would obtain the practical guidance for using this body tool to come to that rare possibility to 'know'.

 

[Navdeep88]

3 components to Maya - we should try to be in Sat Karams as much as possible - but this is still a component of Maya...

eventually actions are done with absolutely no thought of reward ....simran is continuous, daily...and the fourth state starts to become apparent..

everything is interlinked...Spirituality doesn't have any boundaries...our whole existence is spiritual...

Chaz,

*I am not picking on you*

But "actions done with no reward, everything interlinked, no boundaries"... Where does ACCOUNTABILITY/DISCIPLINE come into this? As Living, breathing people who are Told to be active contributes in the world (not sadhs etc, detached from the world) do we not have to make decisions between family, work etc to allocate our TIME to certain things???

Call this an error in interpretation or a shortcoming But I do not believe everything from all scriptures are to be taken literally. It's often Metaphorical.

And then we have intellectual forums like this to talk about the lifestyle that should accompany it. The many many components of it. Taking a single thing and running with it. No matter how hard or fast you run, is still not comprehensive/rich without the other components.

I am, of course Not a perfect person but witnessing something that I know stems from an insecurity or Fear of somewhere else, and it's expressed in a facade of Unbreakable bravado.

 

[chazSingh]

Chaz,

*I am not picking on you*

But "actions done with no reward, everything interlinked, no boundaries"... Where does ACCOUNTABILITY/DISCIPLINE come into this? As Living, breathing people who are Told to be active contributes in the world (not sadhs etc, detached from the world) do we not have to make decisions between family, work etc to allocate our TIME to certain things???

Call this an error in interpretation or a shortcoming But I do not believe everything from all scriptures are to be taken literally. It's often Metaphorical.

And then we have intellectual forums like this to talk about the lifestyle that should accompany it. The many many components of it. Taking a single thing and running with it. No matter how hard or fast you run, is still not comprehensive/rich without the other components.

I am, of course Not a perfect person but witnessing something that I know stems from an insecurity or Fear of somewhere else, and it's expressed in a facade of Unbreakable bravado.

I think it's strange you think that because we're talking about a subject on a forum that somehow I.M not living lol

A strange observations and quite critical judgement.

Seriously? Lol

 

[chazSingh]

Guru Sahibs say it is possible to 'know' whilst alive in this only life we currently know.

This life comes with this body, and this body is a tool for understanding things that are here and beyond.

I would say that if one does not understand the 'here and now', they cannot understand the 'there and beyond'.

If one were to put materialism and spiritualism aside and read texts that are full of wisdom, the words of our ancestors who had discovered such secrets, one would obtain the practical guidance for using this body tool to come to that rare possibility to 'know'.

There is a lot of practical guidance...on living...earning...sharing selflessly. On simran. In dyan....on the direction to seek.

Lots and lots of guidance...in a practical sense...

We do the same when we book a taxi...preplan ahead...get ready on time...wait at the front door...

But we'really still relying on the taxi to arrive and take us lol.... gurparsaad.

Eventually I think we'll realise all the inspiration and willingness on our part to take the practical steps were gurparsaad as well...

 

[Navdeep88]

I think it's strange you think that because we're talking about a subject on a forum that somehow I.M not living lol

A strange observations and quite critical judgement.

Seriously? Lol

A Truthful Judgement from the amount of Time and level of Commitment to Simplifying a Subject to justify your own singular belief.

Question: if you guys are soooo advanced spirtually, and from your description, it sounds like there's guaranteed results on this investment. Can I Pay you Advanced spiritual beings to confirm my 'Salvation/higher Spiritual stance' or heighten it? I imagine you'll have to have a little chat with Waheguru and explain that I'm a noob. Then your responsible for my Spiritual "progress". We'll sign a contract Guaranteeing that I will no longer be getting reincarnated, but by your formula/work, I will reach Higher status (that can't be judged, described etc, but apparently a Lot of people are there, by their own admission)
Ohhhhhh, beginning to sound BIG lucrative business that already exists out of this sort of reasoning (dera..?)

*If I happen to come back as a cricket in China and get assembled into a Cricket salad... I'm gonna be super {censored}ed

 

[chazSingh]

A Truthful Judgement from the amount of Time and level of Commitment to Simplifying a Subject to justify your own singular belief.

Question: if you guys are soooo advanced spirtually, and from your description, it sounds like there's guaranteed results on this investment. Can I Pay you Advanced spiritual beings to confirm my 'Salvation/higher Spiritual stance' or heighten it? I imagine you'll have to have a little chat with Waheguru and explain that I'm a noob. Then your responsible for my Spiritual "progress". We'll sign a contract Guaranteeing that I will no longer be getting reincarnated, but by your formula/work, I will reach Higher status (that can't be judged, described etc, but apparently a Lot of people are there, by their own admission)
Ohhhhhh, beginning to sound BIG lucrative business that already exists out of this sort of reasoning (dera..?)

*If I happen to come back as a cricket in China and get assembled into a Cricket salad... I'm gonna be super {censored}ed

It's your responsibility. Live it...

It's a poor business....make no money

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

A Truthful Judgement from the amount of Time and level of Commitment to Simplifying a Subject to justify your own singular belief.

Question: if you guys are soooo advanced spirtually, and from your description, it sounds like there's guaranteed results on this investment. Can I Pay you Advanced spiritual beings to confirm my 'Salvation/higher Spiritual stance' or heighten it? I imagine you'll have to have a little chat with Waheguru and explain that I'm a noob. Then your responsible for my Spiritual "progress". We'll sign a contract Guaranteeing that I will no longer be getting reincarnated, but by your formula/work, I will reach Higher status (that can't be judged, described etc, but apparently a Lot of people are there, by their own admission)
Ohhhhhh, beginning to sound BIG lucrative business that already exists out of this sort of reasoning (dera..?)

*If I happen to come back as a cricket in China and get assembled into a Cricket salad... I'm gonna be super {censored}ed

Unlike other religions that say a human guru must help someone along, Sikhi says only each individual can go within, shatter their ego haume identity and find the divine within themselves. The way to do so does not belong to Chaz Ji or anyone else, the means were described to us by our Gurus! And the tools were given to each of us by Waheguru. Just as a pitcher of water reflects the sky above, you are a reflection of Waheguru. Just like an atom is reflection of a solar system or Galaxy, so too are you reflection of the divine. Nobody else can take your hand and lead you because this journey is inward. Only you can take yourself there, but you have to actually start walking.... Take one step towards Guru's feet and Guru will walk millions of steps towards you.

 

[chazSingh]

The

Unlike other religions that say a human guru must help someone along, Sikhi says only each individual can go within, shatter their ego haume identity and find the divine within themselves. The way to do so does not belong to Chaz Ji or anyone else, the means were described to us by our Gurus! And the tools were given to each of us by Waheguru. Just as a pitcher of water reflects the sky above, you are a reflection of Waheguru. Just like an atom is reflection of a solar system or Galaxy, so too are you reflection of the divine. Nobody else can take your hand and lead you because this journey is inward. Only you can take yourself there, but you have to actually start walking.... Take one step towards Guru's feet and Guru will walk millions of steps towards you.

The best post ever!! Well said

Love this Sikhi stuff....

 

[Navdeep88]

It's your responsibility. Live it...

It's a poor business....make no money

FLASE: It makes a Lot of money. Why else do Bibis go to deras and gift gold chains to the babe because they really really want a grandson. That's an example of the business transaction.

 

[Navdeep88]

Unlike other religions that say a human guru must help someone along, Sikhi says only each individual can go within, shatter their ego haume identity and find the divine within themselves. The way to do so does not belong to Chaz Ji or anyone else, the means were described to us by our Gurus! And the tools were given to each of us by Waheguru. Just as a pitcher of water reflects the sky above, you are a reflection of Waheguru. Just like an atom is reflection of a solar system or Galaxy, so too are you reflection of the divine. Nobody else can take your hand and lead you because this journey is inward. Only you can take yourself there, but you have to actually start walking.... Take one step towards Guru's feet and Guru will walk millions of steps towards you.

Thanks for the reply.

Let's get one thing straight. *I don't claim to be an expert*. The concept of Miri Piri is important. You can't Just adhere to one and taut Completeness.

It's incomplete and very very lazy to claim you've got something and can't progress anymore because ooooo.... "there's no destination! And I don't know where I'm going! I'm Guru! I'm gurbani."

"Gurbani says the company of Saints is high/higher. So if I claim to be a Saint and my friends are Saints, I don't have to do any legwork anymore! My work is done! SAINT! Yay!"

Nope, sounds faulty.

 

[chazSingh]

FLASE: It makes a Lot of money. Why else do Bibis go to deras and gift gold chains to the babe because they really really want a grandson. That's an example of the business transaction.

Oh so it's the baba and deras.
Why are you wasting your breath here then... no one's making money here. Lol

Point your energy in the right direction navdeep

And also ita pointless painting everyone with the same brush.

We don't close the building trade because some are untrustworthy.

Oh deary me.

 

[chazSingh]

Thanks for the reply.

Let's get one thing straight. *I don't claim to be an expert*. The concept of Miri Piri is important. You can't Just adhere to one and taut Completeness.

Really. I don't know where you're getting this idea that people here you talk about spirituality are just adhering to one...and touting completeness...

Please provide quotes or just stop bombing threads. ..read people posts...and understand we do actually have lives outside of a few 30 second posts. Lol..lol

It's incomplete and very very lazy to claim you've got something and can't progress anymore because ooooo.... "there's no destination! And I don't know where I'm going! I'm Guru! I'm gurbani."

Again...provide quotes..this is getting a bit silly now.

Also...where is your destination?

"Gurbani says the company of Saints is high/higher. So if I claim to be a Saint and my friends are Saints, I don't have to do any legwork anymore! My work is done! SAINT! Yay!"

OK. This time read more than a few words or pages...theres soo much more to it...
Bit the fact your not quoting any Gurbani anywhere...says to me...you can't be bothered to read it...in which case why are you here. ..

BUT ANYWAY lol.. I.M going to be a good sadh now..and get out the tree...walk into my house...and watch the England game...

Comon England!!!!!

 

[Navdeep88]

Oh so it's the baba and deras.
Why are you wasting your breath here then... no one's making money here. Lol

Point your energy in the right direction navdeep

And also ita pointless painting everyone with the same brush.

We don't close the building trade because some are untrustworthy.

Oh deary me.

But you have a precious opportunity here. I find your method of recruitment and the continual mystery you describe to be Similar to their methods. So all I'm saying is you have a potential business opportunity here.

Whos "we"? So there is some sort of organization thay can GUARANTEE my salvation.

My breathe is more precious than you know, and its not being "wasted" simply because it disagrees with ur opinion.

 

[Navdeep88]

'Please provide quotes or just stop bombing threads. ..read people posts'

I've paraphrased. The most important part about 'no direction/destination' from your 'blog' thread.

'Also...where is your destination?'

That is unknown and that's the best part. I'm a fallible human being that Life can affect. But it's physical life, not just some unknown mystery. But the here and now.

'But the fact your not quoting any Gurbani anywhere...says to me...you can't be bothered to read it...in which case why are you here. ..'

Why do I need to read it when you can send me the pieces that support your opinions and Completely Ignore the rules that come with a Sikh lifestyle.

2) I'm here because I Can be. Are you gona throw me out Chaz?

'BUT ANYWAY lol.. I.M going to be a good sadh now..and get out the tree...walk into my house...and watch the England game...

Comon England!!!!!'

This is an intellectual forum, not your living room.

 

[chazSingh]

But you have a precious opportunity here. I find your method of recruitment and the continual mystery you describe to be Similar to their methods. So all I'm saying is you have a potential business opportunity here.

Whos "we"? So there is some sort of organization thay can GUARANTEE my salvation.

My breathe is more precious than you know, and its not being "wasted" simply because it disagrees with ur opinion.

I said 'we' as in humans...

Humans don't close the building trade because there are some bad untrustworthy builders out there...

Maaaan. . Chill out ... all over the shop..

 

[chazSingh]

'Please provide quotes or just stop bombing threads. ..read people posts'

I've paraphrased. The most important part about 'no direction/destination' from your 'blog' thread.

'Also...where is your destination?'

That is unknown and that's the best part. I'm a fallible human being that Life can affect. But it's physical life, not just some unknown mystery. But the here and now.

'But the fact your not quoting any Gurbani anywhere...says to me...you can't be bothered to read it...in which case why are you here. ..'

Why do I need to read it when you can send me the pieces that support your opinions and Completely Ignore the rules that come with a Sikh lifestyle.

2) I'm here because I Can be. Are you gona throw me out Chaz?

'BUT ANYWAY lol.. I.M going to be a good sadh now..and get out the tree...walk into my house...and watch the England game...

Comon England!!!!!'

This is an intellectual forum, not your living room.

The right thing to do is..create a thread about..what you think Sikh is for you...and what you think people like me..are doing to it...

And some gurbani would be precious in it.
Otherwise just bombing other threads is pointless...

Anyone can open threads .. utilize it... unless you don't have time?

 

[Original]

Bhagat Singh Ji - beautiful exploration so far ! Please allow me the liberty to tweak a little - thank you.

Guru Sahibs say it is possible to 'know' whilst alive in this only life we currently know.

...Guru Ji says, this, here n now is the opportunity to "experience the divine" [govind milan...p12 SGGSJ]. Where knowledge can be had without the actual experience, experience can only be had by the experiencer in itself. For example, women conceive and give birth to baby humans [knowledge]. Expelling the baby from the womb is traumatic and painful [experience]. Sikhism doctrinal is to an end of having an "experience" which has a direct effect to confim the existence of a BEING [Waheguru]. Knowledge can be objectively tested, experience cannot.

This life comes with this body, and this body is a tool for understanding things that are here and beyond.

..there is no beyond ! It IS NOW, its always been now ! Where the body [matter] perishes, the soul does'nt, it always is, always has been and always will be [ad sach, jugad sach....]. It is the subjective sense of the self [kilogram of nerve cells or the "I"] that goes through birth, growth, decay n demise, for this is the transient modulation of the physical phenomena. The soul however, remains intact and unaffected [non matter], a BEING part of the existent EKONKAR, which is always LIVE. Nanak says you can connect and experience the five alive.

If one were to put materialism and spiritualism aside and read texts that are full of wisdom, the words of our ancestors who had discovered such secrets, one would obtain the practical guidance for using this body tool to come to that rare possibility to 'know'.

...experience it !
Check out the direct effect of connecting with Anhad Shabd [Ekonkar], thus:

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥......ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਓਥੈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ p 124 SGGSJ.

Translation [bold]: beyond the nine gates, the tenth His abode, there the unstruck sound is continues day n night.

Goodnight All

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Original Ji, excellent post! It IS about here and now, but not physical here and now, here and now just IS. It's mind / soul not the physical.

For future reference though, can you please post full shabad as that is the rule here... you can put it in quotes so it collapses and doesn't take a bunch of scrolling. That way if someone wants to read the whole thing they can just click on expand... you can then refer to that one line outside of the quote (as long as you have the full shabad there I think its ok). Admin Ji can correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Original]

New Original Ji, excellent post! It IS about here and now, but not physical here and now, here and now just IS. It's mind / soul not the physical.

Good morning Harkiran - hope you're well !

".......the shortest distance between a human being and Truth is a story.' "
-- Anthony de Mello. Check out the one below and make connection if you will.

When Nanak met God [Sultanpur Lodhi - Parmeshar ki dargah, meaning god's residence], God gave him nam daan [amrit] with which Nanak was to initiate the uninitiated and educate on the spiritual; remove them if you like, from the hold of the physical, mental and emotional aspects that otherwise are intrinsically fettering. A dialogue between God n Nanak ensued, went something like this :

God: is there something else I can give thee O Nanak ?
Nanak: yes me Lord
God: what would that be ?
Nanak: poverty
God: why poverty ?
Nanak: for what thou hath given n charged me with O God, can only be held in a vessel [meaning body] that is free of the rich, fame and the authoritative human [pauri 38 of Jap Ji Sahib is to this end].

The relevance here HKR, is to show that whilst the physical body [matter] is no more than a vessel that carries the spirit [amrit] within it, experience of it can only be had NOW, whilst alive n kicking, for all else, including time, space, matter are no more than means to that end, "an experience". In other words, the body is a mean to an ultimate end, which is, an experience of the divine within. Just as a car is a mean to a destination so is the body a vehicle to reunite the separated soul with the true n absolute self, meaning, the spiritual self. The beauty n the immortality of the soul is that it is "alive eternally" , never dies, never born, it exists and is realised within the confines of this so called body, a human being.

HKR Ji - you're an advanced spiritual being, you have always been here [the spirit you], albeit, in different bodies, locations, and different time dimensions. Break free n make this thy final visit and merge permanently with the pure consciousness [Khalsa]. This is what Sikhism professes, consciousness surviving the death of the body and, it is through the practice of meditation [nam simran], which acts as a mean to enter the 4th state of the eternal conscious state of being, leaving behind as it were, the body....."jeevat maryia" [die whilst alive , p 775 SGGSJ]. It is fair to add that meditation is not the exclusive nor the only mean to a teleological enterprise, but a preferred, tested and recommended a doctrine within the meaning theological science of the soul.

Enjoy the day !
TC