Racism

[namritanevaeh]

That desn't sound like regular Linzer.

Why would you discuss going without protection and not discuss the issue of a potential pregnancy? Of course he was fine with going without protection, they say sex with a condom is like taking a shower with a raincoat on! If anyone is going to have unprotected sex they should be ready for a baby. And it can happen on the first go, I'm sure you know that.

I hope you find love in the end because it sounds like you got a bit of a bum steer with this one.

Glad to hear Linzer isn't always so hard. ;-)

I feel we had discussed the possibility of pregnancy. I think more than once. When we met I said if he was looking for someone to settle down with and have kids I probably would not be his person. Not that I am completely against the idea of more kids with the right person, more that I've "BTDT". I'm also not keen on the idea of getting married again. I would very likely consider both with the "right person" but a lot of times it is the girl who really wants to marry in order to get the big "dream wedding" and...I've done that.

So anyhow his reply to that was that he didn't mind; he didn't feel the NEED to have children right then and there. HOwever, he adores children. Down to changing the dirty diapers of a friend's kids...something a lot of men would balk at. On at least one more occasion, perhaps 2 if my memory is faulty, we discussed what would happen with an oopsie and his reply was "well I guess I'll update my FB status to say I'll be a dad! Simple as that!" pretty much. So my take on it was he wasn't planning kids but would tolerate an oopsie just fine.

Of course I know a child can happen on the first time. I love the man; I won't say I wouldn't have enjoyed having his child...by the time I lost it I really did want it. But whilst I was ready to face the consquences if they should occur I guess he was just paying lip service to pretending he would be ok with it or something.

Oh here is my memory of the other discussion of children which was the night we were together making that child, after the fact. I was telling him something my mom had said about oopsie children and she said "there are a lot of lives that are ruined by oopsies" or something like that and I told him that and we both kind of went "really?!!! Since when is it ok to consider a new life such a negative thing?!". He seemed as appalled as I was at the comment and was like "yeah kids should always be #1 priority".

Thanks for your thoughtful words at the end.

 

[namritanevaeh]

namritaneveah ji thanks for your posts. An excellent example of respectful dialog while much less would have been deserving or called for and many would have come swinging.

By the way Sikhism much believes in "you sow and so shall you reap". This is not to a wish for any bad but just a simple recognition that is even in our holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,Wishing you and your children all the best in the future.

Thanks Ambarsaria. I have been on forums for many years, debating. You quickly learn to a) develop a thick skin and b) how to be respectful in responses otherwise you might as well not debate.

I kind of figured Sikhism was a bit along those lines. Which was why the suggestion of an abortion just shocked me so much. I totally was not expecting that of a man who claims to love children so much.

*sigh*

Thanks again.

mundahug

 

[namritanevaeh]

Did we get a check up for potentially fatal diseases as well?
If she has kids all the more reason to use protection.
I also stand by my statement that she's manipulative. " The only reason I'm still in this life is for my kids". If that's not a manipulative statement I don't know what is.

Why is that a manipulative statement? It is a factual statement. I'm depressed, I really hate how my life has gone in the past 9 months. This past week has been both pregnancy loss week and mental illness week in the same week my child would have been "due" to enter the world, and I say how ironic when the former can obviously so easily lead to the latter. I would challenge anyone to carry a child, feel it move and then basically "feel it die" and lose it, and NOT come out raw and damaged on the other end. That is probably something rather difficult to understand if you haven't been there, done that, though. To add racial slurs to someone who is suffering already is to add insult to injury.

What if this wasn't a baby situation. What if the tables were turned...we were going out and getting along well and his...cousin...grandfather...etc. died and I chose that moment in time to tell him I couldn't possibly take him home for dinner to my parents' house b/c they wouldn't accept him b/c of his skin colour? Totally totally unacceptable in my opinion, worse b/c he was going through a difficult emotional time when I chose to tell him that. Luckily I don't have a family like that; they will accept a green Martian as my mate if he is nice to me, and will give anyone a chance or few. But even if it WERE an issue, with ANYONE in my surrounding friends/family, I would stand up for what I believe in. Maybe it helps that I have relatives who are mixed race in my family. It just has never been seen as an issue. One of my closest family members is probably darker coloured than this man I dated. *shrug*

Yes I would say it's a raw nerve when white people whine that they're discriminated against I find it annoying. Try being black or brown in Nyc for a day. Try wearing a turban and passing through an airport. Yes discrimination sucks but get over it. You don't have it that bad.

Again what do you want from this posting sympathy?

YK...no one has a perfect life. Everyone has their crosses to bear and to claim that one person's are worse than another without "walking a mile in their shoes" is pretty presumptious. So I have it easy going through the airport. My wounds are less visual than a Turban. Great. It doesn't erase them.

The simple fact is...racism and discrimination work both ways. I don't dish out racism or discrimination of any kind (some of my best friends in life are "physically challenged" if that is still the PC term for "disabled"...TBH I can't keep track of these things and they personally prefer to be called disabled...in any case I am openly accepting of people of pretty much any walk of life)...and I find it shocking and hurtful that a person who has been discriminated against regularly based on his race/background would dish it out so freely.

 

[kds1980]

namritanevaeh ji

Even if you had been brown ,Hindu ,muslim or even a sikh woman with already kids even then chances of your B/F marrying you were quite bleak.Most of Indian families irrespective of religion want their sons to marry in their religion and within their caste and community and that too with unmarried woman.

 

[namritanevaeh]

namritanevaeh ji

Even if you had been brown ,Hindu ,muslim or even a sikh woman with already kids even then chances of your B/F marrying you were quite bleak.Most of Indian families irrespective of religion want their sons to marry in their religion and within their caste and community and that too with unmarried woman.

Yeah. I am seeing that. It makes it hard to understand why people want others to respect, support, and learn about them if they are not open to embracing other people too into their culture in exchange. I was told by him that he was against caste issues and that he cared not what his parents thought about the people he was with/dating. I guess it was all a big fat lie...

We're all humans on this planet last I checked. No one is superior to another as far as I am concerned...it takes all sorts to make a world.

japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[linzer]

You never did answer my question about why you chose to post here. It looks like all you want to do is wallow in self pity and you want the people of this forum to give you sympathy. None of this does you any good.
If you want to get something out of it other than useless sympathy and if you really are going to a therapist, I suggest you print off everything you wrote on this thread, what the rest of us wrote doesn't matter.
Ask him or her what they think. Ask them to point out where your being manipulative.
You don't see it yourself but it's there. What you need to do is move on with your life. Your holding on to this experience to try to milk it for every last drop of drama you can.
I'm not trying to be mean. I just don't think it does you any good at all to say "oh you poor thing I hope you'll find someone better." Until you change you for the better there won't be any "better".
Gurfateh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Linzer veer ji I have a comment.

I'm not trying to be mean.

I am sorry but the way I read it you are coming across as beyond mean. I don't understand your posts unless you are the affected party trying to set the record straight.

I just don't think it does you any good ...

How can you be definitively judgmental unless you know her personally? If by any chance you know her personally I suggest you take the conversation off-line.

If you are taking the "tough love" or "scared straight" approach I don't think it is working or even needed.

I believe on consensus of posts, it can be concluded that it is simply a relationship that went awry and perhaps little or nothing to do with racism. In that context perhaps the title could have been better phrased.

Regards.

 

[Parma]

You never did answer my question about why you chose to post here. It looks like all you want to do is wallow in self pity and you want the people of this forum to give you sympathy. None of this does you any good.
If you want to get something out of it other than useless sympathy and if you really are going to a therapist, I suggest you print off everything you wrote on this thread, what the rest of us wrote doesn't matter.
Ask him or her what they think. Ask them to point out where your being manipulative.
You don't see it yourself but it's there. What you need to do is move on with your life. Your holding on to this experience to try to milk it for every last drop of drama you can.
I'm not trying to be mean. I just don't think it does you any good at all to say "oh you poor thing I hope you'll find someone better." Until you change you for the better there won't be any "better".
Gurfateh

Linzer, you seem proper cut up about it. Maybe you got issues with people expressing their problem? I would simply say Don't comment then. What's the BEEF? Just seems like a lady that's had a hard time nothing to do with any religion or any race just a waste of space of a person she came in contact with. I mean he had no issues dating her so the issue was not race he seems to have treated her rightly aswell only when the lady talked of commitment the guy runs a mile, maybe family and cultural issues but that is the individuals frame of mind and family. Nothing to do with a race or a religion. Linzer grow up dude, I can be just as rough with you sunshine, leave the lady alone! (I can not understand your frustrations) Not trying to be the knight in shining armour or anything I just like to see people let be! Linzer grow up you ****! lol friendly banter!

 

[findingmyway]

I kind of figured Sikhism was a bit along those lines. Which was why the suggestion of an abortion just shocked me so much. I totally was not expecting that of a man who claims to love children so much.

If he was really a practising Sikh he also wouldn't have slept with you without proper commitment. It is exactly to avoid situations like this that sex before marriage doesn't make moral sense!

 

[Luckysingh]

Look, coming from the streets of UK, most of us men have always come across similar stories. However, we have normally been on the other end such as a good mate of ours getting his chick or girlfriend pregnant!!
As friends and mates we naturally respected their decision if they wanted to dump or proceed with the relationship.
The only lesson that I may have learnt was that '' I should avoid getting into such scenario''
Then again our mates never planned it, it was basically an oopsie that happens.

Being a little mature now and with reference to namrita's post, I realise the pain and difficulty faced by the woman.
The lad simply moves on and looks for better things, once they feel free from being tied down.Or they may decide to pursue fatherhood and stick with the chick, in which case you or the other lads hardly ever see him again !!
But it makes it difficult for the girl or woman to do it that easily. To simply move on with her life is not that easy, which is why Linzer can't make any sense of it.

I'm sorry that it has happened this way, but you need to get a little pro-active and try and move on.
If you need further help or guidance, then there are many professionals and resources available in Surrey BC from what I gather.
I don't live too far from Surrey and can help put you in contact with local counsellers if you require.

You have your kids to keep you going and give you strength. They must be a huge and valuable part of your life.
It may make your days a little easier, if you try live and see the world through their eyes. Remember for them, you are ALL they really have.
You may feel lost and let down by your lover, but they would be much more lost without you. You are their purpose for life !!

I hope you had a nice thanksgiving last week and I would look forward to halloween and christmas time with your kids.

 

[Luckysingh]

Try wearing a turban and passing through an airport. Yes discrimination sucks but get over it.

Personally, I don't go for the cries of the turban victim at the airport !!
I will explain why-

-First, I think that the real very genuine sikhs that get a hard time at the airport, simply put up with it and don't make too much noise or moan. They are normally the mot humble gursikhs.
--- Secondly, the turban sikhs that I have seen kick up a fuss, moan about being victims etc.. whilst going through security do have a fair point.
They do make it known and clear that they are sikhs and the turban is a sacred part of the religion.
Lets see how sacred they stay later!!!
Because, very sadly on numerous occasions I have seen these same sikhs who did a very good job in expressing sikh values at security behaving in totally MANMATT manners throughout the flight !!!

--YOU GUESSED IT- it's the same babas that will be looking forward to cabin crew bringing the miniature whiskey's. Then they go on their 8 hour 'peggh' binge whilst bibiji sleeps or watches a movie.
- What happens many hours later is that Baba ji will be so intoxicated that cabin crew will refuse to serve more alcohol. Then he wil moan about how he has been picked on and discrimnated against all the way from the airport check in.
He will try and give his 3 words of english to the hostess and then go on to asking the young punjabi like me nearby to request a drink and then pass it to him !!

THIS is the DISGRACEFUL way that some Baba sikhs and younger ones of course, represent us to the world.
So, in my experience with airport security, the baba that is moaning and bothered, doesn't get too much sympathy from me !!!

 

[namritanevaeh]

You never did answer my question about why you chose to post here. It looks like all you want to do is wallow in self pity

Nope. Not at all. In fact, reading between the lines, you may have noticed I mention more than once that I see little point in asking people to learn about one's culture and background and be accepting of them if one is to be very closed-minded themself and not accept outsiders in who ARE willing to learn about and embrace that culture. So my post is about education. As I say, racism and discrimination work both ways. I hear a lot of people cry racism pretty darn quickly and yet it seems sometimes those same people are very fast to dish it out (and just for the record...I am NOT saying that those people are all Sikh by far...I see it in many cultures...I just decided to post here b/c the man I was dating WAS, himself of that background, and I wanted to clarify too that what I understood of what being Sikh is all about, from some of my friends, is actually true.).

I come from a family with strong family values, lots of family get-togethers, family support...we are really more alike than we are different and that is one of my points.

And I was once accused of being a racist by someone of a different racial background (NOT a Sikh woman) b/c I told her that by law she should keep her party noise to a minimum after 10 pm. The same person came to my house one day on a completely separate occasion when she had a bone to pick with me, and called me a "f'ing whitey". Like I say...it seems very backwards to accuse someone of it when I would have told any neighbour of any background that party noise should be minimal late at night, and then dish it out yourself.

I am not in any way accusing any one person of anything. Just saying it comes up more than I like to see, and I am calling out trying to open up people's minds to say that "hey, this shouldn't be considered OK to do this, to treat people like this."

Hope that clarifies it?

 

[namritanevaeh]

I believe on consensus of posts, it can be concluded that it is simply a relationship that went awry and perhaps little or nothing to do with racism. In that context perhaps the title could have been better phrased.

Ambarsaria, you may be right. I was unsure what to post it under and as it felt to me like it bordered on that, that seemed like the shortest most concise way to title it. I hope I didn't offend anyone as such.

 

[namritanevaeh]

Linzer grow up dude, I can be just as rough with you sunshine, leave the lady alone! (I can not understand your frustrations) Not trying to be the knight in shining armour or anything I just like to see people let be! Linzer grow up you

Aww...is there a teary-faced icon? Thanks for the kind defense Parma.

Obviously a lot of you "know" each other from other posts. I enjoy reading you all, even Linzer. Sometimes the hard nosed approach does open up our eyes. I don't feel I have to agree with everything that is dished out in my direction, however, and will defend my views. ;-)

 

[namritanevaeh]

Being a little mature now and with reference to namrita's post, I realise the pain and difficulty faced by the woman.
The lad simply moves on and looks for better things, once they feel free from being tied down.Or they may decide to pursue fatherhood and stick with the chick, in which case you or the other lads hardly ever see him again !!
But it makes it difficult for the girl or woman to do it that easily. To simply move on with her life is not that easy, which is why Linzer can't make any sense of it.

Thanks LuckySingh. You know what? There is a gentleman I work with who one day was saying he was glad he only had 1 daughter to worry about her getting "knocked up". ;-) I said to him (he also has a son) that he has his priorities on the wrong way. I said "if your daughter gets pregnant, there is a VERY good chance you will only end up a grandfather of an oopsie once. People do TEND to learn their lesson. Could be twins or triplets, but chances of that, or higher, are so very small it's hardly worth considering. Your son, however, if you don't educate him properly to insist on using protection for his OWN self and future as well as the girl's, could easily end up, if he is unable to keep his pants zipped up ;-) impregnating 10 girls in the time it takes your daughter to get pregnant once. And if all 10 of those girls DO decide to come after him for child support payments and he is unable to do so, ie still in school or something, who will ultimately end up having to help out but you?".

My work colleague looked at me and I swear his jaw dropped about 2 inches. He was like..."you are SO right. I mean I hope I have instilled in my son that you shouldn't do that and just sleep around willy nilly but it's not like I have any way of checking or imprisoning him to make sure he doesn't."

It sure made him think. The guys may well sometimes get off virtually scott free in terms of having to live through baby years, toddlerhood, sleepless nights...if they refuse to stand up and be a man about it. But many women WOULD and do ask for child support for children conceived this way every year throughout the world. Depending on where you live, you can have your children taken away and STILL have to provide financial support for them.

So...yeah. It sure is easier when it's not your body that has to commit to it. I won't say I hated every moment of being pregnant the other times it happened (and they WERE planned with the same person...and I left due to abuse before I get asked that)...but it's not all a walk in the park. And the scars that stay in your soul from the loss of a child you didn't plan but ended up desiring after that possibility was handed to you can be, in my experience and the experience of other mothers I've spoken to, almost MORE devastating than planned kids. When you lose a child you planned, it is of course devastating too...but there is virtually always the possibility of "trying again". Those of us who lose a child like this...have none of that. It's over. And if things had turned out differently and the child had survived, I might be looking down at a child with his smile, or his eyes NOW...but I will never get that chance. Which is just as devastating.

 

[namritanevaeh]

I don't live too far from Surrey and can help put you in contact with local counsellers if you require.

You have your kids to keep you going and give you strength. They must be a huge and valuable part of your life.
It may make your days a little easier, if you try live and see the world through their eyes. Remember for them, you are ALL they really have.
You may feel lost and let down by your lover, but they would be much more lost without you. You are their purpose for life !!

I hope you had a nice thanksgiving last week and I would look forward to halloween and christmas time with your kids.

Oh and thanks for the end of this too Luckysingh...I decided to reply to the top before reading the rest LOL. Too much of an eager beaver. ;-) I do have a counsellor I am working with weekly. And of course I enjoy my kids. Like I say, they do give me a purpose, a reason to stay around.

I ended up having to work for thanksgiving but hopefully will get to celebrate Hallowe'en more in style! ;-) BOO!!!!

 

[namritanevaeh]

- What happens many hours later is that Baba ji will be so intoxicated that cabin crew will refuse to serve more alcohol. Then he wil moan about how he has been picked on and discrimnated against all the way from the airport check in.
He will try and give his 3 words of english to the hostess and then go on to asking the young punjabi like me nearby to request a drink and then pass it to him !!

THIS is the DISGRACEFUL way that some Baba sikhs and younger ones of course, represent us to the world.
So, in my experience with airport security, the baba that is moaning and bothered, doesn't get too much sympathy from me !!!

LOL!!! I love your description. I won't say I agree or disagree; I know little about this area.

I WOULD love to learn more Panjābī though. Truely and honestly. I know all of about 1 useless word, 1 cool term, one useful word, and a whole bunch of food words (I CAN effectively read a restaurant menu without resorting to descriptions having learnt by now what most of the terms mean. ;-)).

I am a lover of languages (they come easily to me) and I'd actually find it very helpful in my area of the world to know more.

 

[namritanevaeh]

If he was really a practising Sikh he also wouldn't have slept with you without proper commitment. It is exactly to avoid situations like this that sex before marriage doesn't make moral sense!

OK so I didn't say "practicing"...I did say "very canadianised". ;-) Born and raised here...

 

[namritanevaeh]

Linzer veer ji I have a comment.I am sorry but the way I read it you are coming across as beyond mean. I don't understand your posts unless you are the affected party trying to set the record straight..

Oooooooooooohhhhh...I sure hope not. ;-) But then if he were...it would mean he is lying about where he lives or I am. Since I say I am in Surrey, not Mexico. ;-)

I think I myself would know, in any case, if "M" were posting here, even under a pseudonym (and my moniker sure is...it's not my real name).

 

[linzer]

I am sorry but the way I read it you are coming across as beyond mean. I don't understand your posts unless you are the affected party trying to set the record straight.

How can you be definitively judgmental unless you know her personally? If by any chance you know her personally I suggest you take the conversation off-line.

If you are taking the "tough love" or "scared straight" approach I don't think it is working or even neede
.Ambarsaria ji, and everyone else as well,
Sorry that you don't like my style.
I agree completely that her problem is not about racism. It's about a relationship that didn't work out.
I really don't intend to come across as mean but I what I'm saying is pretty much what other people have said. " stop holding on to this and move on. "
And once again I want to say Namritanavaeh print off what you've written here and take it with you to your therapist. It really can be an excellent tool for them to help you. Many times you can get sidetrack and forget to tell your therapist things that might be important. Life is far too short to waste it crying over things we can't change.
best of luck.