- Jun 7, 2006
- 1,323
- 145
i have a question
Can someone be Khalsa even if they have never heard of Sikh Gurus?
Can someone be Khalsa even if they have never heard of Sikh Gurus?
Rai Sikhs In Ferozepur Rely On Dera, Not Sikhism
YES....after .....they hear about them !! OR they will hear about them...any time soon they reveal their intention to be Khalsa...
Rajkhalsa Ji...
I do not "fight"......have never have and never will. I hope this is the last time i hear such a baseless accusation . we attempt to discuss POSTS..not the poster. The reason why i posted the rickroos site is becasue you said not a single radhasoami has anythign "bad" to say about his Guru...EVERYBODY has plenty to say..its the Age of the Internet..IT Explosion..Information OVERLOAD....my saying..sweep UNDER our BED means we INTROSPECT...look WITHIN...i never said this means we attack others. BTW i dotn beleive Rickroos aor anyone else has the mOINOPOLY on TRUTH...that woudl eb too NAIVE...hence i take it ALL with a pinch of salt...whetehr its RSS propoganda on Sikh sites or other stuff.
People coming over..to join..or leave..has absolutly NOTHING to do with education. wealth..whatever.
Mnay westerners born and bred in Christianity/Jewish thought/traditions etc and having the best education/wealth etc LEFT and joined Sikhism.. I never even bother to reserach why ?? Because its a personal search. Did the Christians ill treat them..fought with them..why they left..End result is they LEFT. Period.
Similarly Sikhs..also LEAVE. Its their PERSONAL CHOICE. Nobody can do anything. many COME..amny LEAVE..its Natural LAW.
Just as a Christian who becoemsa an Amrtidharee is no longer a Christian..how could a AMRITDHAREE be in a Christian "fold" ?? doesnt make sense...unless he is BHEKHEE >>
Cheers
I do not "fight"......have never have and never will. I hope this is the last time i hear such a baseless accusation . we attempt to discuss POSTS..not the poster. The reason why i posted the rickroos site is becasue you said not a single radhasoami has anythign "bad" to say about his Guru...EVERYBODY has plenty to say..its the Age of the Internet..IT Explosion..Information OVERLOAD....my saying..sweep UNDER our BED means we INTROSPECT...look WITHIN...i never said this means we attack others. BTW i dotn beleive Rickroos aor anyone else has the mOINOPOLY on TRUTH...that woudl eb too NAIVE...hence i take it ALL with a pinch of salt...whetehr its RSS propoganda on Sikh sites or other stuff.
People coming over..to join..or leave..has absolutly NOTHING to do with education. wealth..whatever.
Mnay westerners born and bred in Christianity/Jewish thought/traditions etc and having the best education/wealth etc LEFT and joined Sikhism.. I never even bother to reserach why ?? Because its a personal search. Did the Christians ill treat them..fought with them..why they left..End result is they LEFT. Period.
Similarly Sikhs..also LEAVE. Its their PERSONAL CHOICE. Nobody can do anything. many COME..amny LEAVE..its Natural LAW.
Just as a Christian who becoemsa an Amrtidharee is no longer a Christian..how could a AMRITDHAREE be in a Christian "fold" ?? doesnt make sense...unless he is BHEKHEE >>
Cheers
We do need to reform Sikhi. We have groups within Sikhi such as Namdhari, AKJ etc that are right up there with Radhaoswami. We have problems with those taht have the appearance of Sikhs.
We have problems with caste, racism, sexism, meat/vege issue, illiteracy isuues etc, but I would say these factions/cults/deras add to these problems.
My question is why pretend to be Sikhs when they are not? What they really wish to project is not the Paanths will (consensus) but rather their own will.
YES..everyone wants to be a "SIKH"..the Soamis..the rahims..the namdharees, the nirankarees, the RSS Bhagwa Brigade..the..the...the.. and even the "Amritdharee CHRISTIANS" ( whatever that is..).
SIKHS have no problem if these people stopped calling themsleves SIKHS and saying what they really ARE.
SIKHS have no problem if these people stopped calling themsleves SIKHS and saying what they really ARE.
THEN we can get down to business cleaning up our backyard...:happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy:
Archived_member7
SPNer
- Mar 26, 2006
- 458
- 96
The Soamis, the nirankaris, the rss ...I havent heard anyone calling themselves Sikhs..the Namdharis are a different case ..
This guy who's story i quoted here ..is an actual person and so are many on that website..you can contact them if you want and get answers perhaps as to why they moved on to a different religion...
This is root prob ...you see Aad ji ...our guys are all ready to disown...now rather than thinking on why this happened ..how a man with a financially sound background, with unshorn kesh and amritdhari ..converted to christianity..our guys just push them out ...its like ....GET LOST ....No Business with US....
I was thinking and expecting that our Gyani ji would have some solution....but anyways ...its for all others to judge what actually goes wrong and how ...we see it live here ...
rajkhalsa ji
Are you saying that India owns Sikhi? Pray that you are not. Also that new generation Nirankari movement is doing a lot of "good" things. But is there a story behind the scenes about the leadership? Take a look at a few YouTube videos -- it is all about leader worship. Isn't it all about votes? And a jet-set lifestyle?
Are you saying that India owns Sikhi? Pray that you are not. Also that new generation Nirankari movement is doing a lot of "good" things. But is there a story behind the scenes about the leadership? Take a look at a few YouTube videos -- it is all about leader worship. Isn't it all about votes? And a jet-set lifestyle?
Archived_member7
SPNer
- Mar 26, 2006
- 458
- 96
The fact is you will find such 'Gyanis' 'Sants' everywhere ..specially in India...they are at a loss to resolve the issue ..and to overcome their short comings they just give statements which further alienate that person...
To give an example ..some years back there was an incident in Jhajjar, Haryana.. where a group of allegedly low caste men were transporting a dead cow...they passed through a colony of Jats who claim themselves superior...these Jats got angry and killed and mutilated some men. There was high tention and situation was out of control all over.
The family and locality to which those victims belonged decided to convert to show a strong reaction. This was done in public with media watching them. There were reactions from various Sants.
The Shankaracharya of the Kamakoti Peeth His Holiness Sri Jayendra Saraswati was interviewed and asked a question as to what would happen if such conversions happened en masse. His reaction was 'Let them Go' !!!!
I was shocked !! there was just bubbling anger in me ...Who the hell in this world has given the right to a person to decide this ??? we need to understand that a religious head is a 'servant' of the society and in no way should he/she try to be the master. was the rest of the hindu community even asked what did they want ???
The fact is such religious posts like 'Gyani' 'Sant' ..has never benifitted us ....in fact they were somewhere the reason for further alienation of the people from the society.
To give an example ..some years back there was an incident in Jhajjar, Haryana.. where a group of allegedly low caste men were transporting a dead cow...they passed through a colony of Jats who claim themselves superior...these Jats got angry and killed and mutilated some men. There was high tention and situation was out of control all over.
The family and locality to which those victims belonged decided to convert to show a strong reaction. This was done in public with media watching them. There were reactions from various Sants.
The Shankaracharya of the Kamakoti Peeth His Holiness Sri Jayendra Saraswati was interviewed and asked a question as to what would happen if such conversions happened en masse. His reaction was 'Let them Go' !!!!
I was shocked !! there was just bubbling anger in me ...Who the hell in this world has given the right to a person to decide this ??? we need to understand that a religious head is a 'servant' of the society and in no way should he/she try to be the master. was the rest of the hindu community even asked what did they want ???
The fact is such religious posts like 'Gyani' 'Sant' ..has never benifitted us ....in fact they were somewhere the reason for further alienation of the people from the society.
Archived_member7
SPNer
- Mar 26, 2006
- 458
- 96
well i am loss to understand how did u come to conclusion that i was saying India own Sikhi...Aad ji ..i seek further clarification
Amar ji,
Guru Fateh.
For me KHALSA is pure hearted person. Nothing more. It is also important to come to the realisation that KHALSA is not a title nor a destination. So yes, there are many,many Khalsas in the world who carry on breeding goodness within and sharing with others without even having the knowledge of how we as Sikhs name them.
We should question ourselves as often as possible and should be in AWE while realisiing the answer of the following:
What doThe FOUR DOORS of Harmandir Sahib mean?
All those who want to have the journey of how to become Khalsa ( Pure hearted) are welcome, irrespective of their hue,creed or faith.
Tejwant Singh
- Jun 7, 2006
- 1,323
- 145
Tejwant ji
thanks,
i got the answer i was wanting to hear.
there is still hope in the World.
thanks,
i got the answer i was wanting to hear.
there is still hope in the World.
Amar ji,
There will always be HOPE...and Good people..and Honest God fearing humans...
in all the regions of this world. Those that "hope" to Colonize/convert/every single one to their own religion/way of life/etc are living in a fools paradise..Diversity is Natures law...Guru teg bahadur Ji told Aurengzeb the same thing..and he beheaded the Guru rather than accept the TRUTH. No one holds a monopoly on "truth", "honesty", God, piety, good deeds, etc etc...its everywhere and in all places.:happy::happy:
When Aurengzeb began his active campaign to convert ALL india to Islam, he vowed to weigh a Mann of Janeaus daily before he would eat his breakfast. This Mann of janeaus represented the number of Hindus converted daily. When the Kashmir Governor was also ordered to participate in this mass conversion, because the Kashmiri Hindus were mostly PANDITS, they decided to ask for Guru teg bahdur Jis help. Thus they told the Kashmir Governor that they were going to see their Guru in Anandpur sahib and IF HE converted then they would too. Thus this delegation of Kashmiri Pandits appeared in Anandpur Sahib. Guur Ji heard their story and were deep in thought when the 9 year old Gobind Rai ji came and asked His father...why are you so deep in thought. Guur Ji replied..A great Sacrifice is necessary...Who could be greater then YOU, Pita Ji..replied Gobind Rai Ji. That was the answer Guur Ji was looking for and He made arrangements to travel to Delhi to meet the Emperor.
Guru Ji was accompanied by a large group of snagat when He left annadpur sahib. Stopping along the way Guru Ji did parchaar to awaken the populace to stand up against tyranny and not allow themselves to be ground under foot. A few miles out of Delhi Guur ji told everyoen to go back and ONLY Five Sikhs to follow him further. ON Arrival at Delhi Guur Ji was first taken before the Emperor. He first treated Guur Ji very nicely and with respect. He informed Guru ji that He was interested in making all of India into One strong nation under one Religion..Islam. Guru Ji told him..that is not the correct way. ALL religions lead towards the same God and everyone shoudl be completley free to practise his own beleifs in his own way. Guur Ji further told him that Now you have two major religions..Hindus and Muslims..soon there will be a Third..the KHALSA...in the House of Nanak.
( Some accounts have this story)
Guru Ji asked Aurengzeb to bring some black pepper seeds and wrap them up and burn them...when the fire died down..all were burnt except 3 seeds..Guru Ji told Aurengzeb..see, beside the Hindu and Islamic religion..there will be a THIRD..the SIKH KHALSA.
The Emperor then asked Guru Ji to perform some miracles to show proof that he was genuine holy man. He reminded Guru Ji that Ram Rai son of a fromer Guur had shown him so many miracles years before and as a result he ahd given Ram rai a Jagir and a dera. Guur Ji replied Miracle is against Natural law and a Travesty against God and His hukm. To a Sikh Miracle is Kahir...going against Hukm of the Creator. Then the Emperor said..either convert ot Islam or be prepared to DIE. Guur Ji replied..DEATH is as per His HUKM..no one can deny Death and I will Not convert just to escape death for a short while. Thus From among the Guru jid companions..Bhai Mati Dass Ji was sawed alive, Bhai Dyala Ji was Boiled aliive,Bhai Sati Dass Ji was wrapped in cotton, soaked in kerosene and burnt alive..these were done in the Gurus presence to scare Him into converting. When this failed, the Emperor ordered that teh Guru betaken to Chnandi Chowk and beheaded in PUBLIC to serve as awarning to those still not converting as to the fate that awaited them. The Gurus dead body was to be left in the Chowk....BUT a strong storm accompanied with swirling sand descended soon after and a Sikh of the Guru passing by with his Gaddas of cotton was able to quickly carry off the gurus body in his gadda and another Sikh bahi jaita was able to carry off the severed Head. The Body was taken to a home and the Sikh set fire to his house as well as his gaddas full of cotton. A Gurdwara stands on this spot. The Sikh bhai jaita meanwhile carried the Head to Anandpur sahib where he presented it to Gobind Rai Ji. Bhai jaita was embraced by Gobind rai jis as Ranghreta Guru Ka Beta and the sees was cremated in Annadpur sahib. SEES diya par sirrar na deeah..Guur teg babhdur Ji gave His HEAD but not his RESOLVE to Fight for religious FREEDOM.
Guru Ji was accompanied by a large group of snagat when He left annadpur sahib. Stopping along the way Guru Ji did parchaar to awaken the populace to stand up against tyranny and not allow themselves to be ground under foot. A few miles out of Delhi Guur ji told everyoen to go back and ONLY Five Sikhs to follow him further. ON Arrival at Delhi Guur Ji was first taken before the Emperor. He first treated Guur Ji very nicely and with respect. He informed Guru ji that He was interested in making all of India into One strong nation under one Religion..Islam. Guru Ji told him..that is not the correct way. ALL religions lead towards the same God and everyone shoudl be completley free to practise his own beleifs in his own way. Guur Ji further told him that Now you have two major religions..Hindus and Muslims..soon there will be a Third..the KHALSA...in the House of Nanak.
( Some accounts have this story)
Guru Ji asked Aurengzeb to bring some black pepper seeds and wrap them up and burn them...when the fire died down..all were burnt except 3 seeds..Guru Ji told Aurengzeb..see, beside the Hindu and Islamic religion..there will be a THIRD..the SIKH KHALSA.
The Emperor then asked Guru Ji to perform some miracles to show proof that he was genuine holy man. He reminded Guru Ji that Ram Rai son of a fromer Guur had shown him so many miracles years before and as a result he ahd given Ram rai a Jagir and a dera. Guur Ji replied Miracle is against Natural law and a Travesty against God and His hukm. To a Sikh Miracle is Kahir...going against Hukm of the Creator. Then the Emperor said..either convert ot Islam or be prepared to DIE. Guur Ji replied..DEATH is as per His HUKM..no one can deny Death and I will Not convert just to escape death for a short while. Thus From among the Guru jid companions..Bhai Mati Dass Ji was sawed alive, Bhai Dyala Ji was Boiled aliive,Bhai Sati Dass Ji was wrapped in cotton, soaked in kerosene and burnt alive..these were done in the Gurus presence to scare Him into converting. When this failed, the Emperor ordered that teh Guru betaken to Chnandi Chowk and beheaded in PUBLIC to serve as awarning to those still not converting as to the fate that awaited them. The Gurus dead body was to be left in the Chowk....BUT a strong storm accompanied with swirling sand descended soon after and a Sikh of the Guru passing by with his Gaddas of cotton was able to quickly carry off the gurus body in his gadda and another Sikh bahi jaita was able to carry off the severed Head. The Body was taken to a home and the Sikh set fire to his house as well as his gaddas full of cotton. A Gurdwara stands on this spot. The Sikh bhai jaita meanwhile carried the Head to Anandpur sahib where he presented it to Gobind Rai Ji. Bhai jaita was embraced by Gobind rai jis as Ranghreta Guru Ka Beta and the sees was cremated in Annadpur sahib. SEES diya par sirrar na deeah..Guur teg babhdur Ji gave His HEAD but not his RESOLVE to Fight for religious FREEDOM.
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