Ramayana And Ram Avtar Sahib: Misunderstood By Brother Sumra

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

KDS1980 ji

That is not the case.When Anti dasam granth people are asked to furnish a reference from sikh history that disputes Dasam granth , they are not able to do that.

You can give an example from Sikh history that is not itself subject to questions? If you can please do? It is my understanding that the turmoil of that period, the destruction of property and records, gave rise to much uncertainty about the authenticity of texts. Historical provenance, or the "chain of custody," of these documents remains unclear. That is why there is so much discussion of the authenticity of Dasam Granth in whole or in part. And the reason why is it important to resort to textual analysis to answer many questions.

Apart from that they use foul language for dasam granth. What foul language? Do you have examples?

Please keep in mind that sikhism has only one sect and there is no division yet. How far from the reality of Sikhism can one get? There are now, and since the death of Sri Guru Gobind Singh have been, divisions, sects, within the panth. Could be the very reason why he made the Granth the eternal Guru. He trusted Gurmatt more than Manmatt.

Akal takhat regulates religious issues of sikhs. Akal takhat recognises Dasam granth. So if the matter is closed then why will Akal Takhat not allow discussion. If it is closed then there is no controversy. Discussion should not be a problem.

The wise thing is that those who do not like that can form their own sect. We need not fight over this issue.

added by aad0002

BTW Inder ji -- Yes, please let them know at sikhsangat on thread about Dasam Granth that I am a Skh.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

aha I know why the Ramayan Thread is posted....its for our benefit but then it was hijacked..and got thrown in the gutter....its to persuade us...( that is all those who are so called afghans, kaleh/chitteh/hareh/bhagweh whatever, anti-inder singh,singh2, singh2, singh3, singh4 etc etc aliases( "WE" and "I" only "one" all interchangeable lets the cat out of the bag)..can "follow" in Rams Chanders footsteps and go drown ourselves in the nearest river....and leave the field open for them..FAT HOPE !! WE..and YES its a WE (not I disguised as we accidentally caught with his hands in the kitty)..wont go so easily...we are here to Speak on SGGS and we will until HE Calls US...
What a collosal waste of time, bandwidth....and so BORING.. Inder ji..take it to that other Forum you love so much and peddle it there..a lot of "Singhs will post and pat your back...and you can pat them back. BTW talking behind someones back is called CHUGGHLEEAN..and nindiya...just like OLD WOMEN DO..not KHALSA SINGHS.:rofl!!::rofl!!:

 

[kds1980]

KDS1980 ji

That is not the case.When Anti dasam granth people are asked to furnish a reference from sikh history that disputes Dasam granth , they are not able to do that.

First let me clarify my stand I am not hardcore Dasam granth supporter neither I am against it.I beleive that it could be adulterated as far as reference from sikh history is concerned I have read article's against Dasam granth and I think Anti dasam granth people do provide some evidence and pro Dasam granth do provide some.BTW I agree with you that Foul language against Dasam granth should not be used.

Please keep in mind that sikhism has only one sect and there is no division yet. Akal takhat regulates religious issues of sikhs Please keep in mind that sikhism has only one sect and there is no division yet.

I agree with it that Akal Takhat should regulate issue's.But don't you think it should be applicable on Akj's,DDT,Nanaksar and other who have their own maryada's.On AKJ site
I have yet to see 1 AKJ singh accept that jhatka meat is allowed in sikhism,The issue which was settled by Akal takhat and even a hukamnaama was also issued.So how could people say that there are no sects in sikhism when people already pick what they like and reject what they don't.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Inder you said there is no division in panth. Answer the following questions:

Inder, since you say you support and follow Akaal Takht. I have several questions.

1) Do you read lambee chaupai or short one?
2) Do you say Laavo Bhog or Dar Parvaan Hove?
3) Do you read arill brills ghrill with chaupai or not?
4) Do you read mool mantar up to Gurparsaad or Nanak Hoasee Bhee Sach?
5) Do you agree with aarti at hajoor or is that bamanvaad?
6) Do you enjoy mahaparsaad aka jhatka as per Takht maryada or you are anti-meat?

Once you answer these questions, we will discuss further.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Vijaydeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have read you above veeery looooong essay: Ramayana and Ram Avtar Sahib: Misunderstood by Brother Sumra

I do not want to waste the bandwidth of this great forum to copy and paste the whole article but I have a few questions which I hope you respond in lay man's terms. You do not have to Copy & Paste Gurbani to prove your point because it has not fulfilled the objective in the above essay as I see it.

1. What is the point of this essay?

2. What are you trying to prove with the essay?

3. What does this essay have to do with anything about Sikh teachings given to us in SGGS- our ONLY GURU by Guru Gobind Singh?

4. Who are you trying to prove wrong and right and for what reasons based on Gurmat Ideals of SGGS?

5. What is your objective and goal by writing this long essay?

6. How does it enhance my Sikhi ideals given to all of us in SGGS?

7. What is the historical significance for the Sikhs in all this when no one is sure who wrote the DG, Ramayana and other books which are just mere speculations. But we all know who wrote SGGS?

8. In other words, and, your point is?


Tejwant Singh

Respected Singh Sahib Ji,

Das first touches your feet and seek your blessing. For das a True Sikh is form of Tenth Guru only. So bless das so that he could answer the question.

Das only wanted to convey was that Rama is not to be told to worshiped By Tenth Master.

Weather he committed suicide or not that hardly matters for Sikhs. Bhai Sumara Ji uselessly tried to prove that Verse onto Tenth Master are trying to preach the eternity of story of Rama.

Why on earth any way we have brought Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji here das fails to understand.

There are source which authenticate Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Guru Ship bestowed onto them. But the way authenticity of matter authenticating Shri Dasham Granth Sahib JI could be challenged in the same way authenticity of matter authenticating Shri Guru Granth Sahib and bestowal of Guruship to them could be challenge. The question of brining in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was out of context and so das's answer here too is out of context.

Lastly if someone says that using Mahala or using name Nanak is done by some else and not Guru. What will we do ? we will qoute other matter, which could be told as not authentic as told for the Text onto the Tenth Master.

Thanks for asking das the question and das feels gratified from your mercy. Singh Sahib, Akal Bless you. Even if you have no faith in verse onto Tenth Master, yet with your faith in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you are worth worship for das.Akal Bless.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Vijaydeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response but once again, pardon my ignorance, I am not as sharp as I may have made you believe. So please bear with me.

You write:

Respected Singh Sahib Ji,

My name is Tejwant Singh, not Singh Sahib. So please address me accordingly.

Das first touches your feet and seek your blessing. For das a True Sikh is form of Tenth Guru only. So bless das so that he could answer the question.

You remind me of what my son Trimaan ( btw he will be 14 tomorrow) who tells his elders. "Let me touch your feet so you can feel superior". Thanks but no thanks.

Das only wanted to convey was that Rama is not to be told to worshiped By Tenth Master.

I like your one sentence answer above. You should have said it like that in your response to Sumra Sahib. Short and sweet.

Weather he committed suicide or not that hardly matters for Sikhs. Bhai Sumara Ji uselessly tried to prove that Verse onto Tenth Master are trying to preach the eternity of story of Rama.

We all have opinions. As you do too. So expressing oneself no matter how much one disagrees with the other is the right and the Sikhi thing. Don't you think?

Why on earth any way we have brought Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji here das fails to understand.

What is wrong with my question?

Allow me to repeat them so you can respond this time.

1. How does it enhance my Sikhi ideals given to all of us in SGGS?

2. What is the historical significance for the Sikhs in all this when no one is sure who wrote the DG, Ramayana and other books which are just mere speculations. But we all know who wrote SGGS?

There are source which authenticate Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Guru Ship bestowed onto them.

I agree with you there. We know the sources which authenticate SGGS and the Guruship.

But the way authenticity of matter authenticating Shri Dasham Granth Sahib JI could be challenged in the same way authenticity of matter authenticating Shri Guru Granth Sahib and bestowal of Guruship to them could be challenge.

You are contradicting your prior statement where you agreed on the authenticity of SGGS. One wonders why this change of a heart in the next sentence!

I agree with you that the authenticity of Dasam Granth can be challenged. Why would Guru Gobind Singh ji, who sacrifced his own father, his 4 sons, gave us Khalsa Panth, added his Father's Gurbani to SGGS and gave us SGGS as our ONLY GURU, will write a Granth under his own name called Dasam Granth? Why would he do that? People who think like that are too much into Me-ism and arrogance and do not even blink an eye while disrespecting our 10th Guru's decision and vision. What selfish motives they have to do this? Only Ik Ong Kaar knows that. Why do they claim to know more about Guru Gobind Singh ji than our Guru Sahib himself is beyond my comprehension?

The question of brining in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was out of context and so das's answer here too is out of context.

The former is merely your opinion and then why did you respond to it if it were out of context? It sounds puzzling and confusing to say the least.

Lastly if someone says that using Mahala or using name Nanak is done by some else and not Guru. What will we do ? we will qoute other matter, which could be told as not authentic as told for the Text onto the Tenth Master.

I have no idea what you are trying to say or speculate. Please elaborate.

Thanks for asking das the question and das feels gratified from your mercy.

Only, Ik Ong Kaar has mercy, so please stop with your fake praise. It is as unbecoming and pretentious as" Das first touches your feet and seek your blessing". It is disrespectful to Ik Ong Kaar.

Singh Sahib, Akal Bless you

I have no idea why you forgot Sarbat da Bhala. Your above quote makes Akaal look selfish. Ik Ong Kaar bless ALL. No exception.

Even if you have no faith in verse onto Tenth Master,

Your above statement is a false accusation. As a Sikh I would like you to take that back

yet with your faith in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,

SGGS is our ONLY GURU as given to us by Guru Gobind Singh. Faith is a wrong word because faith can change anytime. I KNOW, SGGS is my living GURU.

you are worth worship for das.Akal Bless.

A Sikh does not worship. A Sikh learns from the tools given to him/her in SGGS to be with the ONE.

Worship is left for the idols by those who worship them. Once again, stop with your false praise and do not make me into some stone idol. Get one of Micheal Jackson's instead.

Tejwant Singh

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/members/vaheguruseekr.html
Great post VaheguruSeekr Ji. Vijaydeep doesn't seem to be sure about what he says at times. Is Dasam Granth Guru according to him?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Inder you said there is no division in panth. Answer the following questions:

Inder, since you say you support and follow Akaal Takht. I have several questions.

1) Do you read lambee chaupai or short one?
2) Do you say Laavo Bhog or Dar Parvaan Hove?
3) Do you read arill brills ghrill with chaupai or not?
4) Do you read mool mantar up to Gurparsaad or Nanak Hoasee Bhee Sach?
5) Do you agree with aarti at hajoor or is that bamanvaad?
6) Do you enjoy mahaparsaad aka jhatka as per Takht maryada or you are anti-meat?

Once you answer these questions, we will discuss further.

THREE WHOLE DAYS have passed..still no answer to these questions which can be answered in 10 miniutes...

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Originally Posted by The Khalsa Fauj
Inder you said there is no division in panth. Answer the following questions:

Inder, since you say you support and follow Akaal Takht. I have several questions.

1) Do you read lambee chaupai or short one?
2) Do you say Laavo Bhog or Dar Parvaan Hove?
3) Do you read arill brills ghrill with chaupai or not?
4) Do you read mool mantar up to Gurparsaad or Nanak Hoasee Bhee Sach?
5) Do you agree with aarti at hajoor or is that bamanvaad?
6) Do you enjoy mahaparsaad aka jhatka as per Takht maryada or you are anti-meat?

Once you answer these questions, we will discuss further.

THREE WHOLE DAYS have passed..still no answer to these questions which can be answered in 10 miniutes...

Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

It shows that Inder hates Sikhi and slanders our Gurus at will. What a shame!


Tejwant Singh

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

He doesn't follow Akaal Takht himself yet shows those bogus hukamnamas to prove his point.

Har Kay Sant Naa Aakheeaye Banaras Kay Thug

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Singh Sahib Ji,

Das find himself very minute up to your level of understanding so he could not convey his things which your your frequency would have cough.

In front of Akal, all is one Singh or Mal or Mohammad. Reason for writing "Singh Sahib" is mrak of respect. I yourself do not like it, then forgive das. Das could not address you with the name. It is there in west but there to while he stayed das used the terms like Singh Sahib.

Coming to issues raised by you.
1. In Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Rama, the human is told inferior to Akal Purakah. The same thing is repeated by the Tenth Master. Just to prove that he also goes by the idea of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
2. This will elaborate all the issues you have asked. As per you due to some sources, it appears authentic, that with Mahala term, Nanak Term makes it prove that Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are the work of Akal unto Gurus , Sikhs and Bhagats. Fact is that there are similar sources which prove the Fact that whole of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji is work of Akal onto Tenth Master.

So the way proofs which people against the Verses onto Tenth Master try to say are not authentic, in the same way proofs which say that Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has verse which are authentic or They were given Guruship or historically, it is proven that they are your living Guru, the proofs of all this could also be proven as fake.

Rest if yourself still could not understand then das will repeat again in a better way.

Regarding false praises, dear sir, no need to feel uneasy as Panth teaches of ease or Sahaj Avastha. Das sees Akal in you so says like this. As Akal blesses all so say your self also as self unit of Akal is blessed.

For das Ek Oankar is only one attribute of Akal. For das Guru and Living Guru is primal lord Akal, which manifests self in Gurbani.

comrades, atheists, leftist in the garb of Sikhi slowly poision the mind of young men like our brother TKF, by trying to replace God by human or book as in them, there is no God at all.

There one thread which is closed in which you have asked why did das wrote there on saying of Inder Singh Ji. Fact is that das does not like him or yourself wasting times of trival or non issues. Das when he himself find involived in such acts, find self more like a Dog barking on the fellow mates of pack(Brahmins were such dogs as per old Indian text, who use to do useless debates).

ਪੰਨਾ 1255, ਸਤਰ 6
ਖੋਜੀ ਉਪਜੈ ਬਾਦੀ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥
खोजी उपजै बादी बिनसै हउ बलि बलि गुर करतारा ॥
Kẖojī upjai bāḏī binsai ha▫o bal bal gur karṯārā.
The seeker comes forth, and the debater dies down; I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to the Guru, the Creator Lord.
ਮਃ 1


Das himself is a Dog, who barks for the praise of Akal only.

So kindly bring the proofs, if possible on the other thread, which prove that Tenth Master gave Guru Ship to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bring Proof that present version of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is authentic. Only is it is due to your blind faith, then why do we have partial blind faith.

In Hindus, following the Fifth Philosophy of Nayay or justification by logic, (used by Dayananda and Bhag Singh Ji of Ambala), there is way called Vitandana by Chhala. In short misinterpretation of some correct thing, then with deception proving the right things wrong with slander.

How did it come into so called Sikhs ? Via Arya Samaji's who within few decades become leftist.

Das respects you for you faith in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and again touches your faith. It is more to respect of Akal ,who is in you.Akal Bless you.

 

[spnadmin]

Vijaydeep Veer ji

Please allow me to narrow the question now under discussion a bit just for the purpose of improving my own understanding.

Are you suggesting -- and we are bck to the 'pen name" issue unfortunately - that Akaal revealed and some individual or individuals wrote it all down, and signed off using cryptic names? If that is the case it still does not settle the argument at hand. Three names, One God, and who are they who wrote it all down? Is is one person using three names? is it 3 diferent people? Is it Guru Gobind Singh? If it is anyone other than Guru Gobind Singh how do we know that he/she/they got it "right?" Humans are fallible and also given to adding their own spin. If it is Guru Gobind Singh, why didn't he use his own name to avoid creating confusion?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Vijaydeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the post but I have a confession to make. I have no idea what you are talking about. Please forgive my ignorance. My Gurmat level is not at par with yours.

Please do me a favour and explain what you have done below in lay man's terms by giving examples from SGGS,our ONLY GURU, in full Shabad versions so I can grasp what you already know.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

Gurfateh
Dear Singh Sahib Ji,

Das find himself very minute up to your level of understanding so he could not convey his things which your your frequency would have cough.

In front of Akal, all is one Singh or Mal or Mohammad. Reason for writing "Singh Sahib" is mrak of respect. I yourself do not like it, then forgive das. Das could not address you with the name. It is there in west but there to while he stayed das used the terms like Singh Sahib.

Coming to issues raised by you.
1. In Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Rama, the human is told inferior to Akal Purakah. The same thing is repeated by the Tenth Master. Just to prove that he also goes by the idea of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
2. This will elaborate all the issues you have asked. As per you due to some sources, it appears authentic, that with Mahala term, Nanak Term makes it prove that Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are the work of Akal unto Gurus , Sikhs and Bhagats. Fact is that there are similar sources which prove the Fact that whole of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji is work of Akal onto Tenth Master.

So the way proofs which people against the Verses onto Tenth Master try to say are not authentic, in the same way proofs which say that Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has verse which are authentic or They were given Guruship or historically, it is proven that they are your living Guru, the proofs of all this could also be proven as fake.

Rest if yourself still could not understand then das will repeat again in a better way.

Regarding false praises, dear sir, no need to feel uneasy as Panth teaches of ease or Sahaj Avastha. Das sees Akal in you so says like this. As Akal blesses all so say your self also as self unit of Akal is blessed.

For das Ek Oankar is only one attribute of Akal. For das Guru and Living Guru is primal lord Akal, which manifests self in Gurbani.

comrades, atheists, leftist in the garb of Sikhi slowly poision the mind of young men like our brother TKF, by trying to replace God by human or book as in them, there is no God at all.

There one thread which is closed in which you have asked why did das wrote there on saying of Inder Singh Ji. Fact is that das does not like him or yourself wasting times of trival or non issues. Das when he himself find involived in such acts, find self more like a Dog barking on the fellow mates of pack(Brahmins were such dogs as per old Indian text, who use to do useless debates).

ਪੰਨਾ 1255, ਸਤਰ 6
ਖੋਜੀ ਉਪਜੈ ਬਾਦੀ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥
खोजी उपजै बादी बिनसै हउ बलि बलि गुर करतारा ॥
Kẖojī upjai bāḏī binsai ha▫o bal bal gur karṯārā.
The seeker comes forth, and the debater dies down; I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to the Guru, the Creator Lord.
ਮਃ 1


Das himself is a Dog, who barks for the praise of Akal only.

So kindly bring the proofs, if possible on the other thread, which prove that Tenth Master gave Guru Ship to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bring Proof that present version of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is authentic. Only is it is due to your blind faith, then why do we have partial blind faith.

In Hindus, following the Fifth Philosophy of Nayay or justification by logic, (used by Dayananda and Bhag Singh Ji of Ambala), there is way called Vitandana by Chhala. In short misinterpretation of some correct thing, then with deception proving the right things wrong with slander.

How did it come into so called Sikhs ? Via Arya Samaji's who within few decades become leftist.

Das respects you for you faith in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and again touches your faith. It is more to respect of Akal ,who is in you.Akal Bless you.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Vijaydeep Veer ji

Please allow me to narrow the question now under discussion a bit just for the purpose of improving my own understanding.

Are you suggesting -- and we are bck to the 'pen name" issue unfortunately - that Akaal revealed and some individual or individuals wrote it all down, and signed off using cryptic names? If that is the case it still does not settle the argument at hand. Three names, One God, and who are they who wrote it all down? Is is one person using three names? is it 3 diferent people? Is it Guru Gobind Singh? If it is anyone other than Guru Gobind Singh how do we know that he/she/they got it "right?" Humans are fallible and also given to adding their own spin. If it is Guru Gobind Singh, why didn't he use his own name to avoid creating confusion?

Dear Sister,

Das never said for pen names. Das even disagree that the poet name Nanak is used in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Over there Nanak is the one addressed By Akal Purakh.

Three are the attributes of Akal, as all names belong to God and these names are referred to God in Both Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji(read the post of das about Answering Singh Sahib Dalbeer Singh Ji's and of Bhag Singh Ji'sissue about all of The Shri Dasham Granth Sahib for quotes)

Reason Given for not using personal name and name of God only is there in Vachitar Natak Sahib, where Guru tells that people of faith came before, used their name(by will of God off course). They were been worshiped. So name of God only needs to be used.

Reason is that religious fundamentalists fight for the faith, attached to thier prophet/guru/incarnation. Here was an attempt to end all this by direct/pure link to God. That is Khalsa. No "created" thing the manifester and the manifestaions ie Humans.

Fact is that from each atom(it is not body as translated) does pervading lord speaks. Many know this but only few with mercy of Akal experience this and feel this.

ਪੰਨਾ 988, ਸਤਰ 16
ਸਭੈ ਘਟ ਰਾਮੁ ਬੋਲੈ ਰਾਮਾ ਬੋਲੈ ॥
सभै घट रामु बोलै रामा बोलै ॥
Sabẖai gẖat rām bolai rāmā bolai.
Within all hearts, the Lord speaks, the Lord speaks.
ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

[/SIZE] Vijaydeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the post but I have a confession to make. I have no idea what you are talking about. Please forgive my ignorance. My Gurmat level is not at par with yours.

Please do me a favour and explain what you have done below in lay man's terms by giving examples from SGGS,our ONLY GURU, in full Shabad versions so I can grasp what you already know.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

Respected Singh Sahib Ji,

First das is bowing his head to your feet and tender an apology for any discomfort caused to yourself on the behalf of das.

Das was really sick when some persons were in argument with you. Das is not like that. Das only wanted to give an alternate view. As by mercy of Akal, we as a Sikh start our journey from where all other faiths end. So das found that from with the system from which das himself takes inspiration fundamentalist bigots have come.

In short, sorry to be blunt that missionaries are going the AKJ way. When AKJ/Taksal use to bully Kala Afghan Ji's supporter, then das supported Kala Afghana Ji. Presently supporters of Kala Afghana Ji, or Ragi Ji are using the same method as used by people das talked before.

Thesis Anti Thesis etc. are from Marxist jargon but could be used here, gives a new synthesis . Das is only trying the interpret Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji, the way Prof Sahib Singh Ji did for Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Das is again sorry that due to his very low intellect and spiritual in comparison to your self das still could not put his things for your correct comprehension.

Das is now emulating within his mind, a comrade or leftist in grab of Sikh, as will only display the way they could attack Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Das felt the pain worst then hell while thinking of those lines so it was already typed yesterday night so will be posted after a few more addition.

So forgive das, who is really a Dog, as Master as for Das, there is no difference between you and God At All.

So we start.

First Das wants authentic proofs that Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are Your only Guru. From which source you say this ? Is it written in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

Then Is present form authentic and not interpolated ? What is the proof of this ? Is the present version same as done by Guru then ? If then give the proof.

why should we give quotes from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ? where is it written in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to give quotes ?

Then some more observation as an atheist das puts here about living Guru and Ek Oankar also.



Singh Sahib Ji,

A few questions to you.

You say that you have the faith in Verses onto Tenth Master. Can you list them ? once it is done then Das will take his words back.

Yourself have stated that you have not understood some parts of das’s writing, it is weakness of das’s ability to convince yourself as remaining part you have not understood either.

Then coming to Ek Oankar, well a few questions.

We understand 1 as for Ek Oankar, so we find one keeps on increasing into 2,3,4, and tends to infinity. So 1 is there. But what about 0. Does God exists in 0 and then -1,-2,-3 and so on. So does concept of Ek or One becomes absolute for God ?

In the same way when we talk of Oankar, It is a letter. If God sticks to this only then what about other 52 or 35 letters. Why is Bvan Akhari (52 letters)or Painti Akahri (32 letters)was written in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which you claim your living Guru?

OK as per present definition, living beings reproduce. Only is they have some abnormality, which incapacitate them, then they do not.

So does Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, reproduces other texts ?

In Asexual way may mean then mutation of one Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into two, have you seen that ? or if it with two gender then weather Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are male or female ? and how about the offspring ?

Das is pained to use Vitandana, as he saw our morning worship able Singh Sahib, doing same thing with das so das just used his(Singh Sahib’s) ways himself. So answer das, and forgive das for such questions.

Where is it written to behold Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as living Guru ? Give proof please.


Coming to another question regarding Ramayana.

Let us see this.

Page 657, Line 10
ਨਾਮੇ ਕੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੀਅ ਬਹੋਰੀ ਲੰਕ ਭਭੀਖਣ ਆਪਿਓ ਹੋ ॥੪॥੨॥
नामे के सुआमी सीअ बहोरी लंक भभीखण आपिओ हो ॥४॥२॥
Nāme ke su▫āmī sī▫a bahorī lank bẖabẖīkẖaṇ āpi▫o ho. ||4||2||
Naam Dayv's Lord Master brought Sita back, and gave Sri Lanka to Bhabheekhan. ||4||2||
Devotee Namdev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


If we read Hindu Ramayana, we will find it is Hindu demigod Ram, while if we read Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, we will find it as all are deeds of Akal.

Same is the case below.
Page 657, Line 9
ਬੇਢੀ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਸੁਨਿ ਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਜਲਧਿ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਧ੍ਰੂ ਥਾਪਿਓ ਹੋ ॥
बेढी के गुण सुनि री बाई जलधि बांधि ध्रू थापिओ हो ॥
Bedẖī ke guṇ sun rī bā▫ī jalaḏẖ bāʼnḏẖ ḏẖarū thāpi▫o ho.
Listen to the virtues of this carpenter, O sister; He stopped the oceans, and established Dhroo as the pole star.
Devotee Namdev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Page 973, Line 16
ਜਸਰਥ ਰਾਇ ਨੰਦੁ ਰਾਜਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਚੰਦੁ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਾ ਤਤੁ ਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ॥੪॥੪॥
जसरथ राइ नंदु राजा मेरा राम चंदु प्रणवै नामा ततु रसु अम्रितु पीजै ॥४॥४॥
Jasrath rā▫e nanḏ rājā merā rām cẖanḏ paraṇvai nāmā ṯaṯ ras amriṯ pījai. ||4||4||
My Sovereign Lord King is Raam Chandra, the Son of the King Dasrat'h; prays Naam Dayv, I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||4||4||
Devotee Namdev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


(He too had a problem with Pandits hijacking Ramchandra, Rama abused Brahminhood of Parshuram as we see in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji)

So lastly again a big apology for thinking like a communist. Fact is that das sent some Anti Missionary books to Germany to one of our former member Balbeer Singh Ji. He had a view that slandering anyone and debating uselessly only increases some thing against the spirituality. Das did agree to this.

Again das is sorry and just this to give an example of Vitandana.Akal Bless You(As Akal Bless All, there is nothing else but Akal)

 

[spnadmin]

Vijaydeep ji

Forgive me-- but I know that you did not use the term "pen names." Your remarks earlier were taken to support this idea. I was posting the question in a far more general way seeking your reaction.

You have made some rather astonishing statements in the post above. As one moderating the threads, I am going to hold back to see if my questions/your reactions draw further responses by a broader base of members. If not then I return to continue the discussion with you.