Ravidass Followers Declare Separate Panth And Granth

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

maybe he is "jealous" of the sauda saadh..ashutosh..or the Radha Soami...and wants to become like them...?? i think its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!! Muder in Vienna and Mayhem in Punjab was with this objective...most didnt even KNOW what really happened..in one Village they put Paath da Bhog of Niranjan Dass (who is alive and running the dera now) instead of the actual dead ramanand....:shock:

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

maybe he is "jealous" of the sauda saadh..ashutosh..or the Radha Soami...and wants to become like them...?? i think its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!! Muder in Vienna and Mayhem in Punjab was with this objective...most didnt even KNOW what really happened..in one Village they put Paath da Bhog of Niranjan Dass (who is alive and running the dera now) instead of the actual dead ramanand....:shock:

Really ????

 

[spnadmin]

In the end Gyani ji it is always about money with babas and sants in any religion. Money, sometimes sex, and control and ego, which is about money.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AND who gave the right to STEAL Bhagat Ravidass Jis GURBANI from SGGS to anyone..niranjan dass or whatever ?? SIKHS should take NOTE. The GURBANI inside the SGGS was placed there by SIKH GURUS and it remains there INTACT.

IF ND is that good..He should write his own "bani/granth"/and place THAT in his temples.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

YES..its MONEY and SEX...Read in todays Rozana Spokesman how the NANAKSARI BABAS fight over a NURSING and DENTAL COLLEGE for GIRLS in Jagraon. One Baba went there with 60 Goondas, attacked the Gurls, staff etc in an attempt to take over the College by FORCE. The Festy GIRLS fought Back..and caught the BABA who was running away into his car...and did a CHHITTAR PARADE (SANDLE PARADE PUNJABI GIDDHA STYLE) of His "UNHOLINESS"....for a good 20 minutes just befoee the villagers and police arrived.

Incidentally this College is...you guessed it..all BASED on $$$$$$$$ DONATED by SIKHS in UK/Canada/etc where thsi BABAS go for diwans and prasie GURU SAHIBS..but come back and buy property in their OWN NAMES !! SEARCH the archives of SikhNewsDiscussion yahoo group for how this college was made !!!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Really ????

YES JI...
Didnt you wonder how the RIOTS began in Punjab even before the Vienna news hit the Internet ?? PUBLIC property and rails, trains, buses, buisnesses were targetted so fast....it was all PRE PLANNED and arranged. :happysingh:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AND..the Inevitable TRUTH begins tricking out...THANKS to the INFORMATION YUG !!

Go to the Link and see the Photos and leaders of this...

Dera Sachkhand Ballan's directive to sever ties with Sikhs, the Sri Guru Ravidas Sadhu Sampardaye Society -- a conglomerate of more than 150 Dalit deras of Punjab -- on Tuesday rejected outright the newly founded "Ravidassia Dharam".

While condemning Dera Sachkhand's attempt to create a new faith out of the Ravidassia sect, the society also announced it would continue with the practice of following the Sikh holy book, Guru Granth Sahib.
The society, at its executive committee meeting held at Dera Babe Jore, situated near Dera Sachkhand Ballan here, unanimously termed the "separate religion" announcement as an attempt at dividing the communities.
Speaking in the presence of more than 30 dera heads, society president Baba Nirmal Dass Jore Wale said: "The decision taken by the Dera Ballan Trust cannot be imposed on the entire Ravidassia community. The newly created scripture `Amritbani Satguru Ravidass Maharaj-ji' will not be treated as a `granth'. Besides, no one consulted all stakeholders in the matter before taking the decision."
"We condemn the killing of Dera Ballan's Sant Ramanand in Vienna last year, but the Sikh community and Guru Granth Sahib cannot be blamed for the cowardly act of a few people. We must not oppose the holy book," the dera heads said.
"Guru Granth Sahib will not be removed from any gurdwara, while it will be re-installed at Seer Goverdhanpur, the birthplace of Guru Ravidas at Varanasi. The community should continue to follow the centuries-old religious practice," Baba Nirmal Dass said.
The meeting noted that several members of the Dalit community had sacrificed their lives to defend the philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib. "Guru Ravidass' bani reached the masses on being incorporated in Guru Granth Sahib," the meeting agreed.
The participants said the sign of "Har" was created by the society in 1974, and the greeting of "Jai Gurudev" was being used by Dalits since more than 80 years. "We are not against any dera or religious figure, but only against the vested interests of certain people who are misusing the name of a dera," they said.
They also criticised the attempts of some elements to browbeat those who had challenged the Dera Sachkhand directive, as with Samaj Bachao Morcha convener Gian Chand.
Meanwhile, two Ravidassia gurdwaras have formally installed the newly created holy book -- "Amritbani Satguru Ravidass Maharaj-ji" -- alongside Guru Granth Sahib.
Jagdish Jassal, a Dalit villager, said Chaheru-based Dera Phul Dass chief Kishan Nath had installed the new scripture at the Ravidassia gurdwara in Nangal Krar Khan village on Wednesday morning. The text bearing Guru Ravidas `bani' was placed in a separate canopy next to the existing Guru Granth Sahib. A police team was also rushed to the village as a preventive measure.
Similarly, the new scripture was also placed at the Ravidassia gurdwara in Dhadde village, though in a room separate from the one in which Guru Granth Sahib is installed.http://epaper.<wbr>hindustantimes.com/<wbr>ArticleText.aspx?article=04_<wbr>02_2010_002_009&kword=&mode=1

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

YES JI...
Didnt you wonder how the RIOTS began in Punjab even before the Vienna news hit the Internet ?? PUBLIC property and rails, trains, buses, buisnesses were targetted so fast....it was all PRE PLANNED and arranged. :happysingh:

I heard in those riots RSS joined with Ravidaasias in Jalandhar.Anti Sikh slogans were also heard.Crores worth of property,3000 crores ?was destroyed in 2 days.Badal gave free hand to the goons for 2 days.

****** Badals have done the same when Biharis went on rampage in Ludhiana on 4 December,2009.He gave free hand to them also.

Perhaps Badals think by doing this they have consolidated their vote bank in the 2 large cities of Punjab ,Jalandhar and Ludhiana ,both of which are Hindu dominated.

Time will tell what they have gained or lost.

 

[bscheema]

v cnt balme othr v need to refine our self .... crowd jst follow bhead challl

 

[spnadmin]

YES JI...
Didnt you wonder how the RIOTS began in Punjab even before the Vienna news hit the Internet ?? PUBLIC property and rails, trains, buses, buisnesses were targetted so fast....it was all PRE PLANNED and arranged. :happysingh:

Amazing! More needs to be said about this.

 

[seeker3k]

Ravidas dharm:
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It was inevitable that they decided to split from Sikhism. As a jatt Sikh I feel bad about the split. It is the attitude of Sikhs that forced them to split. It is same thing when woman file for divorce from her husband. Man and his family will never admit the fault of man. It is always the woman’s fault.
We Sikhs claim that we gave Ravidas the honor by including his writing. Ravidas was there before the Sikhism. We should be thankfull to Ravidas that his writing inspire our Gurus. The very thing we claim that we gave them the honor is insulting them. We can not understand this until we have been discriminated. I remember from the 40’s how Jatts abused the chamars in villages.
As I wrote before that SGGS is cut and paste book. What will happen to SGGS if all the bhagats will remove or file case in court that their gurus writing are used by the Sikhs with out permission? Every one who’s writing are in the SGGS should get the same status as the so called gurus.
Why are we celebrate the 4 guru’s BD-Gadi day-shahedi day. Why nothing about the bhagats? The answer I get there is no way we can do for all bhagts. When we have SGGS then there is no need to celebrate any guru or bhagat. Either we accept SGGS the living guru or should not. When one guru is living then there is no need to celebrate any one who has been dead.
Now the jathedars are calling meeting and pleading the Ravidasis to meeting to solve the problem.
<o> </o>
Some one said religion is bult on sacrifices. This thinking of a narrow minded person. It clearly shows the persons violence side. How come the Radha Suami is growing leaps and bouds. They have not sacrifices any one yet. Next to brake away are the Radha Suami.
Some are blaming the RRS to split the Sikhism it is always some one else not ourselves. If do not change our ways there will be nothing left of Sikhism as we know.
Repercussion of this is very big. There will be new political party in <?xml::ffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> rival to congress and in <st1lace w:st="on">Punjab. There will be no Alkali party as we know of.. Ravis’s folloers are more then Jatt Sikhs. There maybe a wave to unite all the dalits. Then they will be in power in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> and other provinces. I see nothing wrong with that they are as much capable as the Jatts and Brahmans. The political landscape of <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> and <st1lace w:st="on">Punjab is going to be very different.
I am in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> now, what I hear from Jatts are mind blowing. Most of my friends are jatts. They also know that I am jatt so they can talk openly. There is lot of hatred in these jatts against the delits. In villages mostly. No one is talking in cities because they don’t know who is who.
We talk about discrimination in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region>, Newzeland, In Canada USA. This nothing when I see what is going on in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>. What I see in India, India is doomed.
Now the cat is out of the bag.
seeker3k

 

[kds1980]

Some one said religion is bult on sacrifices. This thinking of a narrow minded person

Do you have the authority to judge who is broad minded and who is narrow minded.For people like copying west is broadmindedness and following any religion or traditional thing is narrow.

How come the Radha Suami is growing leaps and bouds. They have not sacrifices any one yet. Next to brake away are the Radha Suami.
Some are blaming the RRS to split the Sikhism it is always some one else not ourselves. If do not change our ways there will be nothing left of Sikhism as we know.

Radhaswami is not a religion.It is basically following their spiritual Guru.If you belive that this type of following some Guru is following a new religion then almost entire India is doing this.Also let me remind you There were many muslim followers of Sikh Guru but they did not embrace sikh religion as a result their descendents are hardcore muslim with no connection with sikhi.Following some Guru,pir,fakir is an age old tradition of India

 

[spnadmin]

seeker3k ji

The forum can always depend on you to raise an opposing point of view or take a look at some failings in the way the a false Sikhi is practiced. However you have over-stepped the boundaries of responsible commentary in your comments about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. There is a forum rule -- this holy granth may not be undermined. And you have presented no evidence to support your claims. You are warned.

Ravidas dharm:
It was inevitable that they decided to split from Sikhism. As a jatt Sikh I feel bad about the split. It is the attitude of Sikhs that forced them to split. It is same thing when woman file for divorce from her husband. Man and his family will never admit the fault of man. It is always the woman’s fault.

It takes two to marry and two to divorce. Forgive me, but there are many instances where women have taken real advantage of men as in dowry disputes, or marriages so the woman can get immigration papers, and then the contract is broken.

We Sikhs claim that we gave Ravidas the honor by including his writing.

We Sikhs do not claim that we gave Ravidas the honor of including his writing. Guru Arjan Dev decided to include some of his banee. Please stick to the facts.

Ravidas was there before the Sikhism. We should be thankfull to Ravidas that his writing inspire our Gurus.

Ravidas did not "inspire" our Gurus. Our Gurus were inspired by the Sat Nam, same as Ravidas.

The very thing we claim that we gave them the honor is insulting them. We can not understand this until we have been discriminated. I remember from the 40’s how Jatts abused the chamars in villages.

There are many Sikhs who remain trapped in the culture of caste. There are many Sikhs who are not trapped there. Please do not generalize with the word "we."

As I wrote before that SGGS is cut and paste book.

This comment is a violation of forum rules. But beyond that this one comment alone belies your considerable lack of knowledge about how the Sri Guru Granth Sahib was compiled. Please read "The Compilation of the Adi Granth" by Professor Sahib Singh to address gaps in your understanding.

What will happen to SGGS if all the bhagats will remove or file case in court that their gurus writing are used by the Sikhs with out permission? Every one who’s writing are in the SGGS should get the same status as the so called gurus.

This statement is laughable. The bhagats can sue no one and have no one to sue. All parties have left their physical bodies. Where would this trial take place? On the astral plane? I regret my own sarcasm, but your argument is beyond hypothetical.

Either we accept SGGS the living guru or should not.

You have just claimed the SGGS is a cut and paste job. Now you say it is "the living guru." Think about the implications of this remark.

Some one said religion is bult on sacrifices. This thinking of a narrow minded person. It clearly shows the persons violence side. How come the Radha Suami is growing leaps and bouds. They have not sacrifices any one yet. Next to brake away are the Radha Suami.

The Radhasoami Beas, or Sant Mat, have never been part of the panth. This panth was formed in 1861. Shri Shiv Dayal Singh was its founder, and he is considered the Supreme Being by members of the sect. They have almost nothing in common with Sikhism. They have raised one living guru after another to serve in his stead while waiting for him to return. In the meantime they have flourished, it is true, from generous donations from their panth.

Some are blaming the RRS to split the Sikhism it is always some one else not ourselves. If do not change our ways there will be nothing left of Sikhism as we know.

RSS has not done it alone. They have managed to make in roads with the help of the SAD. I know that you read the same news articles that I read.

There maybe a wave to unite all the dalits.

Already there have been waves to unite all the dalits. The Ambekdar Movement is only one. Have they united yet?

Then they will be in power in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> and other provinces. I see nothing wrong with that they are as much capable as the Jatts and Brahmans. The political landscape of <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> and <st1lace w:st="on">Punjab is going to be very different.

I am in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> now, what I hear from Jatts are mind blowing. Most of my friends are jatts. They also know that I am jatt so they can talk openly. There is lot of hatred in these jatts against the delits. In villages mostly. No one is talking in cities because they don’t know who is who.

Hatred does not belong to Jatts alone. It is a universal poison.

Now the cat is out of the bag.

No it isn't! Most of what you have said is factually incorrect.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

ON HINDSIGHT..i have been proven absolutley correct that this entire stunt and drameybazee was by the ONE SINGLE DERA --Dera Ballan in Jalandhar and its ASSISTANT Mahnat who wnated an overnight rise to High heaven ans the Saviour and Guru of the Ravidasshiah nation. So the "Chief of the Dera was assasinated in a foreign land...the "assistant" escaped miracolously !! ( HA.....miracle..hallmark of a "true GURU" yes ??) and instant Mayhem and riotous behaviour broke out in Jalndhar even before the news form Foreign lands hit the Internet..)obvioulsy these miscreants had inisder information ??and were prepared well in advance ??) PUBLIC and SIKH Properties were secifically Targetted and DESTROYED - the Police and Authorities looked on passively for quite a long while !!! Nearly 600 KROR valued private SIKH propoerty was destroyed and about 2000 Kror PUBLIC properties destroyed.
2. The DERA held a funeral for the dead Chief...( whose body was flown home ina aspecial Private JET hired by the Badal Govt in super haste ) and EXPLICITLY removed the SGGS from the so called AKHAND PAATH/memorial services and the Assistant (NOW NEWLY MINTED CHIEF) declared only Bhagat ravidass Banis would be read ( only 40 or so shabads taken out form SGGS) The BADALS held their won AKHAND PAATH..at the AKAL TAKHAT - no less !!) No matter that SUCH an act is sacrilege especially one held in honour of a person who denigrated SGGS by having rumallahs offered for the Holy book touch his feet first ) and when the Elder Badal went there to pay hsi respects..he had KNEE PAIN and so sat on a CHAIR in the SGGS presence ..BUT when this Same Badal went to the DERA BALLAN..his knee pain disappeared and he could sit COMFORTABLY ON THE GROUND at the FEET of the New Chief !! Pictorail evidence of Both events exists.
Next news began to filter out in screaming headlines..SGGS REMOVED from ALL ravidassiah Temples..Blah Blah Blah..which was all one BIG LIE...sensationalised propoganda....as it turned OUT..only the DERA ballan was one of such places and maybe one or two others where his types ruled...

Fast Forward to February 2010...The DERA BALLAN CHIEF then goes to Kashi..and declares this NEW CHHOCHHA -- stunt...dramey bazee...New Granth..New Nishan..New Greeting..blah blah blah..and Headlies Scream once more..Ravidassiahs SPLIT form Sikhs...once again a BIG LIE....over 150 Organsiations and SANTS and DERAS of Ravidassih Sangat come out in FULL SUPPORT of the SGGS and REMAINING SIKHS as always. News repot stated thta nearly 100,000 supporters of Ravidass Ji have been trying to remove the FAKE BALLAN TYPES from the Ravidass Temple in KASHI and reinstall SGGS.

Latest..the Younger Badal is reportedly in secret confrence to...???? discuss thsi latest development with the BJP partner-chief....How the PLAN to DIVIDE and RULE Failed..perhaps...discuss some new stunt..drama...maybe tomorrows headlines will begin screaming again...BUT the ETERNAL TRUTH is..TRUE FOLLOWERS of Ravidass Ji are SIKHS..first and Last and will remain SIKHS FOREVER.

To me it seems that hundreds of DWARFS with various small axes...have been busy hacking at the HUGE TREE SGGS/GURMATT that Guru nanak ji planted 500 years ago and in whose roots poured the BLOOD of sikh martyrs for 200 years...but the WOOD of this TREE is solid iron...and their axes become blunt ever so often..but the enmies of sikhism continue to labour...with subjects like these...as well as raagmalla..dsm granth..etc etc etc....Some of these DWARFS are now attacking form INSIDE...in sikh form..BUT i beleive the TREE of SIKHI will stand tall as always....and all these dwarfs will be defeated..ALL SIKHS MUST KNOW their GURU...the GYAAN GURU and work to defeat these Dwarfs of DARKNESS..AGYAAN..RITUALS...BLIND FAITH/WORSHIP/SHARDHA etc...Satgur Nanak Pargitiyah..Mitteee DHUND Jagg Channan HOYA..!!! still STANDS true.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

BSP had an electoral alliance with badal once...and they did win one or two seats...they then thought thta the Akalis were riding the Elephant (Dalit votes were making the Akalis win)..BUT in the following leection the Elephnat decided to go alone..and LOST ALL SEATS. Reality hit the BSP...the two seats they won earlier were due to the AKALI VOTES and not the other way around...Even though Dalits are a huge population chunk..in terms of voters..they always vote SAD/BJP/Congress and NOT BSP !!( Elephant is BSP nishaan ) GROUND REALITIES dont always translate according to STATISTICS !!! IF it were so...DALITS would occupy the Indian Presidency/PM/Cabinet/Army/Navy/ etc...and the POOR would be occupying the UNO as Heads of State !! Becasue 90% of the world voters are POOR !!

 

[kds1980]

BSP had an electoral alliance with badal once...and they did win one or two seats...they then thought thta the Akalis were riding the Elephant (Dalit votes were making the Akalis win)..BUT in the following leection the Elephnat decided to go alone..and LOST ALL SEATS. Reality hit the BSP...the two seats they won earlier were due to the AKALI VOTES and not the other way around...Even though Dalits are a huge population chunk..in terms of voters..they always vote SAD/BJP/Congress and NOT BSP !!( Elephant is BSP nishaan ) GROUND REALITIES dont always translate according to STATISTICS !!! IF it were so...DALITS would occupy the Indian Presidency/PM/Cabinet/Army/Navy/ etc...and the POOR would be occupying the UNO as Heads of State !! Becasue 90% of the world voters are POOR !!

The problem with BSP is mayawati.She is also as corrupt as Badal.Despite several offers she always contest alone in all India.There is allegation that she sells tickets.BSP is the only party that contest more than 500 seats even more than BJP and they just win only 21 in 2009 lok sabha elections

 

[ja58ir]

This is all a part of the leaders who have no Faith in themselves and what the people to fallow them then the true Faith that they Parents did. Did no one before them think that Bhagat Ravi Dass was a guru or are they self claiming that they may one day be called the founder of the 'Ravidassia', and forget Bhagat Ravi Dass who was a true Bhagat. a follower of the true God.
You can run but can not hide from yourself then why do the leaders not live in peace with one another?
Guru Nanak said "be true to the Religion you believe in"

 

[AusDesi]

The problem with BSP is mayawati.She is also as corrupt as Badal.Despite several offers she always contest alone in all India.There is allegation that she sells tickets.BSP is the only party that contest more than 500 seats even more than BJP and they just win only 21 in 2009 lok sabha elections

Thank god for the muslims for that one. If they hadn't block voted for Congress, Mayawati would have had close to 50 seats. That would have been a disaster especially if the Left pulled more seats. There would have been a 3rd front govt.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

That is why I always advoicate that SIKHS MUST NEVER commit to any one party/block. Bdal has doen a very big disservice ot Sikhs by putting them in BJP's Back pocket for ever. THUS the BJP "knows" the Sikh Votes are safe..why BOTHER to give them naything..they will VOTE BJP never the less..and the Congress also wont give naything to them because they know the Sikhs wont vote them anyway....so the SIKHS actually GET NOTHING...HERO TO ZERO !! But IF the SIKHS were NEUTRAL...BOTH BJP and Congress would eb bending over backwards to WOO THEM.
The SIKHS are BJP's WIFE..so BJP dont need to woo them..and the Congress will NOT disturb anothers wife...Better if the Sikhs REMAIN a VIRGIN !!

 

[Zahim Nasir]

Ravidas dharm:
fficeffice" />

As I wrote before that SGGS is cut and paste book. What will happen to SGGS if all the bhagats will remove or file case in court
seeker3k

I think this guy really hit the nail on the head. :shock: