vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Das is addressing the concerns raisded by KDS ji.
In fact at mnay instance of his life after becoing Sikh das may not have carried 5ks like while swiming or say wrestling.
It is wrong and ritualistics to say that we must have 5ks alwayson body as a ritual like put short or Kachhera in one leg while making love with wife.
Yes there are some codes upto lie that.
It all satrted by Nihungs that as they are True in Panth since they were made and they could not survive had they be so ritualists while be in WAr against mighty Moghuls or Afghans.
They had no code in general and were able to resist foe with practical way.But by this there was a scope of thier ideal code gettinh rot.
Anyway in time of comfert they stuck to five keys yet they wanted that tradition to be alive.
This lead to birth of class in Nihungs called Bibecki or one who has descreation but in real that person in nihngs is one who follows very strict code of conduct in life.
All 5ks all the time,eating food made by Sikhs,eating in all iron etc.Such people were also volunteers who kept as a model for ideal conditions or a sort of rreserves showing life in ideal conditons,but Bibeckis were seldom used in wars etc.As there code was rendered them of little use.
Later on some of our reformers have tried to make bebcki rahit for all Sikhs all togather a ritual and that lead to many youngsters leaving the panth.
Das discuused and has seen Maryada of Tenth Guru.In Dasham Granth last page code says that 5ks are not something new but contiuniation of past.
Sarblog Granth talks Guru giving sermons to Sikhs decorated by 3 Mudras.
so at the time of Guru nanbak Dev Ji there were Trya Mudras or 3ks.
\
Kachchh,Kes,Kirpan and that also optional as so far any Guru did not give Guruhood as by taking baptism by Sikhs(Khalsa) themselves .
Das has seen sword of guru Nanak recovered from orrisa at Patna Sahib abd he is Gurudev after Akal who tought weaponary to Sikhs for thier martial arts.
Bhai Mardan was told to keep uncut hairs also.Lastly Kachchhera was also told to be kept for higher charector ,das will try to see if we still have old Kachchhera realted to First Nine Gurus still with us.
Then it happended twice in the life of Tenth Master as per Sau Sakhi.
once a Sikh was caought in war by Muslims,his hairs were cut,He was forecfully made to read Kalima,his gusal was done and he was made to eat thier food.
Getting an occaision to flea he ran away and reported to Guru.Guru was told all about this.
Guru asked him ,did you had company of turkani ie had intercourse with her.
He said no.Guru said that your Sikhi is intact.
Sikhi does not go by force(Jor).It goes if mind is diverted from teaching ie willfully act of difinace are done .
Again during Ucch the peer episode same term that Sikhi does not go by forece was repeated.
When Bhai Dharm Singh Ji,Daya Singh Singh Ji and Maan Singh ji were foreced to eat food with Muslims Guru told them to eat after putting Kirpan and twa Prasad saying into food.
They got taste just like that of Karrah Prasad(it is only about taste as it is eaten after Kirpan Bheta ,it was not turned into Karrah Prasad or Kher but might have remained the same food perhaps Halal).
so again it was said that by adverse circumstances and by force any such anti Sikh acts forced upon us to be done do not take way our Sikhi.
We see in Rahit Maryada by sgpc it is writtan that willfully shaving or eating Halal leads to Tankha or Patithood.Say if some one cheats Das to eat Halal or when no food is there and das is compelled to eat Halal then in those cases Das can appear in front of Panj Piaras only in second case and that too may not be called in for Tankha.
and soforth say during operation if some shaving is done on body then that may also not go in for Tankha by Panj Piaras.
but it doed matter that Panj Piaras are from which idealogy.
Are they from Missionaries or say Orthodox or from some ritualistics back grounds.
Das is addressing the concerns raisded by KDS ji.
In fact at mnay instance of his life after becoing Sikh das may not have carried 5ks like while swiming or say wrestling.
It is wrong and ritualistics to say that we must have 5ks alwayson body as a ritual like put short or Kachhera in one leg while making love with wife.
Yes there are some codes upto lie that.
It all satrted by Nihungs that as they are True in Panth since they were made and they could not survive had they be so ritualists while be in WAr against mighty Moghuls or Afghans.
They had no code in general and were able to resist foe with practical way.But by this there was a scope of thier ideal code gettinh rot.
Anyway in time of comfert they stuck to five keys yet they wanted that tradition to be alive.
This lead to birth of class in Nihungs called Bibecki or one who has descreation but in real that person in nihngs is one who follows very strict code of conduct in life.
All 5ks all the time,eating food made by Sikhs,eating in all iron etc.Such people were also volunteers who kept as a model for ideal conditions or a sort of rreserves showing life in ideal conditons,but Bibeckis were seldom used in wars etc.As there code was rendered them of little use.
Later on some of our reformers have tried to make bebcki rahit for all Sikhs all togather a ritual and that lead to many youngsters leaving the panth.
Das discuused and has seen Maryada of Tenth Guru.In Dasham Granth last page code says that 5ks are not something new but contiuniation of past.
Sarblog Granth talks Guru giving sermons to Sikhs decorated by 3 Mudras.
so at the time of Guru nanbak Dev Ji there were Trya Mudras or 3ks.
\
Kachchh,Kes,Kirpan and that also optional as so far any Guru did not give Guruhood as by taking baptism by Sikhs(Khalsa) themselves .
Das has seen sword of guru Nanak recovered from orrisa at Patna Sahib abd he is Gurudev after Akal who tought weaponary to Sikhs for thier martial arts.
Bhai Mardan was told to keep uncut hairs also.Lastly Kachchhera was also told to be kept for higher charector ,das will try to see if we still have old Kachchhera realted to First Nine Gurus still with us.
Then it happended twice in the life of Tenth Master as per Sau Sakhi.
once a Sikh was caought in war by Muslims,his hairs were cut,He was forecfully made to read Kalima,his gusal was done and he was made to eat thier food.
Getting an occaision to flea he ran away and reported to Guru.Guru was told all about this.
Guru asked him ,did you had company of turkani ie had intercourse with her.
He said no.Guru said that your Sikhi is intact.
Sikhi does not go by force(Jor).It goes if mind is diverted from teaching ie willfully act of difinace are done .
Again during Ucch the peer episode same term that Sikhi does not go by forece was repeated.
When Bhai Dharm Singh Ji,Daya Singh Singh Ji and Maan Singh ji were foreced to eat food with Muslims Guru told them to eat after putting Kirpan and twa Prasad saying into food.
They got taste just like that of Karrah Prasad(it is only about taste as it is eaten after Kirpan Bheta ,it was not turned into Karrah Prasad or Kher but might have remained the same food perhaps Halal).
so again it was said that by adverse circumstances and by force any such anti Sikh acts forced upon us to be done do not take way our Sikhi.
We see in Rahit Maryada by sgpc it is writtan that willfully shaving or eating Halal leads to Tankha or Patithood.Say if some one cheats Das to eat Halal or when no food is there and das is compelled to eat Halal then in those cases Das can appear in front of Panj Piaras only in second case and that too may not be called in for Tankha.
and soforth say during operation if some shaving is done on body then that may also not go in for Tankha by Panj Piaras.
but it doed matter that Panj Piaras are from which idealogy.
Are they from Missionaries or say Orthodox or from some ritualistics back grounds.
wjkk
wjkf
sorry vijaydeep ji i was busy so i was unable to reply.
now my other questinons .you said triah mudra was essential befors 5ks
is their any solid evidence that our gurus make it mandatory because i found sikh history highly doubtful.
now the main question if guru gobind singh ji or any other guru wanted sikhs to keep 5ks or triah mudra why they
added a hymn in guru granth sahib directing sikhs to keep them.
wjkf
sorry vijaydeep ji i was busy so i was unable to reply.
now my other questinons .you said triah mudra was essential befors 5ks
is their any solid evidence that our gurus make it mandatory because i found sikh history highly doubtful.
now the main question if guru gobind singh ji or any other guru wanted sikhs to keep 5ks or triah mudra why they
added a hymn in guru granth sahib directing sikhs to keep them.
wjkk
wjkf
sorry vijaydeep ji i was busy so i was unable to reply.
now my other questinons .you said triah mudra was essential befors 5ks
is their any solid evidence that our gurus make it mandatory because i found sikh history highly doubtful.
now the main question if guru gobind singh ji or any other guru wanted sikhs to keep 5ks or triah mudra why they
added a hymn in guru granth sahib directing sikhs to keep them.
wjkf
sorry vijaydeep ji i was busy so i was unable to reply.
now my other questinons .you said triah mudra was essential befors 5ks
is their any solid evidence that our gurus make it mandatory because i found sikh history highly doubtful.
now the main question if guru gobind singh ji or any other guru wanted sikhs to keep 5ks or triah mudra why they
added a hymn in guru granth sahib directing sikhs to keep them.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Dear Kds JI,
By this time you will be aware that Das is not Guru Granth Sahib purist.
Das relies on other texts and Archelogical evidance also.Unlike due to Chrisitan influnece many of out reformers are trying to make bible like interpetations of Guru Granth Sahib Ji as protestants do.
Das can only prove that evidance from other sources like Three Mudras like Swrod,Uncut Hairs and Kachhera like shorts are not contradictory to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
As per verse of St Kabeer Ji,Behold that as brave who fights for poor.Sword could be conformity.
Lust as five vices could give as symbolic meaning of Kachchherah.
and Hairs being uncut as Guru opposed Jains for removing hairs which makes their intellect low gives us signal for uncut hairs verse in Guru Granth Sahib Starts with Sir Ghutte Saitani or Satanic with head perhpahs shaven.Here Guru tells that without hairs intellect is low.
Then why did not this appear in Guru Granth Sahib JI?
Guru at that times were aware that Sikhs will follow thier tradtionas as they have told so no record was needed but as Tenth Master saw that some imposters tried to interpolate So does he gave them in writing of Dasham Granth and Sarbloh Granth and in both he said that it is as per tradtion and nothing new.
We could see that Cocept of taking Vak(holy sermon),Santookh,Prakash,Ardas starting with with Tu Thakur..,Miri Piri etc. are not at all writtan in Guru Granth Sahib Ji but are there as tradition started by Guru but in comformity with Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Last thing which is very much important is that what das tinks that Guru Granth Saihb Ji were not meant for Sikhs but for whole of the world.While First Master preached not a new faith but to have faith in God to all mankind.
Only those who wanted to be like him joined him as Sikh.Tenth Master only made it consolidated Third faith as we see from history of various sources that unlike First Guru Aurnazeb Rahmat ul Alhe also wanted to combine mankind into one Faith by force.Guru Ji wanted it to be one with love.As challenge to poltics by sprituality then Tenth Master told him that God can make 3 out of 2 if there is force by politics to make 2 as 1.
That 3rd faith will also make 2 merging in three but with love.
As per Vars of Bhai Gurdas I and II and verse of Bhatts,Satta Balvand,Baba Sunder Ji in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,it is clear that concept of Guru Panth was there ie Sikhs are equal to Guru so Guru knew that Maryada or code was to be known by Sikhs also.
But to make it recorded as Panth was to spread more in offensive and victorius manner did Tenth Master recordeed them also. Das think before Tenth Master Gurus did not felt is essinatial to record that in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Dear Kds JI,
By this time you will be aware that Das is not Guru Granth Sahib purist.
Das relies on other texts and Archelogical evidance also.Unlike due to Chrisitan influnece many of out reformers are trying to make bible like interpetations of Guru Granth Sahib Ji as protestants do.
Das can only prove that evidance from other sources like Three Mudras like Swrod,Uncut Hairs and Kachhera like shorts are not contradictory to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
As per verse of St Kabeer Ji,Behold that as brave who fights for poor.Sword could be conformity.
Lust as five vices could give as symbolic meaning of Kachchherah.
and Hairs being uncut as Guru opposed Jains for removing hairs which makes their intellect low gives us signal for uncut hairs verse in Guru Granth Sahib Starts with Sir Ghutte Saitani or Satanic with head perhpahs shaven.Here Guru tells that without hairs intellect is low.
Then why did not this appear in Guru Granth Sahib JI?
Guru at that times were aware that Sikhs will follow thier tradtionas as they have told so no record was needed but as Tenth Master saw that some imposters tried to interpolate So does he gave them in writing of Dasham Granth and Sarbloh Granth and in both he said that it is as per tradtion and nothing new.
We could see that Cocept of taking Vak(holy sermon),Santookh,Prakash,Ardas starting with with Tu Thakur..,Miri Piri etc. are not at all writtan in Guru Granth Sahib Ji but are there as tradition started by Guru but in comformity with Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Last thing which is very much important is that what das tinks that Guru Granth Saihb Ji were not meant for Sikhs but for whole of the world.While First Master preached not a new faith but to have faith in God to all mankind.
Only those who wanted to be like him joined him as Sikh.Tenth Master only made it consolidated Third faith as we see from history of various sources that unlike First Guru Aurnazeb Rahmat ul Alhe also wanted to combine mankind into one Faith by force.Guru Ji wanted it to be one with love.As challenge to poltics by sprituality then Tenth Master told him that God can make 3 out of 2 if there is force by politics to make 2 as 1.
That 3rd faith will also make 2 merging in three but with love.
As per Vars of Bhai Gurdas I and II and verse of Bhatts,Satta Balvand,Baba Sunder Ji in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,it is clear that concept of Guru Panth was there ie Sikhs are equal to Guru so Guru knew that Maryada or code was to be known by Sikhs also.
But to make it recorded as Panth was to spread more in offensive and victorius manner did Tenth Master recordeed them also. Das think before Tenth Master Gurus did not felt is essinatial to record that in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
devinesanative
SPNer
- Sep 11, 2005
- 511
- 10
- 50
vijaydeep Singh said:
I completely agree with you Now , as your reply reflects sikhism for whole mankind and as per in confirmity of the First Master Gurunanak dev ji .
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Othodox or Sanatan Sikhs say that Panth or Dharam is here since world is made.
Othodox or Sanatan Sikhs say that Panth or Dharam is here since world is made.
Last thing which is very much important is that what das tinks that Guru Granth Saihb Ji were not meant for Sikhs but for whole of the world.While First Master preached not a new faith but to have faith in God to all mankind.
wjkk
wjkf
i beleive that any person that beleive that guru granth sahib is his
guru is sikh irrespective of whether he keep kesh or rehat.so guru granth sahib is only for sikhs.you cannot beleive in quran,bible guru granth sahib
at a time .quran says about judgement day and heaven and while guru granth sahib says about reincarnation and mukti
wjkk
wjkf
i beleive that any person that beleive that guru granth sahib is his
guru is sikh irrespective of whether he keep kesh or rehat.so guru granth sahib is only for sikhs.you cannot beleive in quran,bible guru granth sahib
at a time .quran says about judgement day and heaven and while guru granth sahib says about reincarnation and mukti
devinesanative
SPNer
- Sep 11, 2005
- 511
- 10
- 50
kds1980 said:
You are right kds80 . It seems ,as we three of us have tuned into each others frequencies.
To have Faith , one should first have strong belief in himself , then only he/she will have faith in God to all man kind .
Its a simple line but if all people start believing this then the whole world will be a heaven and no one will have to live in Fairy Tale Dream of heaven or any thing else.
Das can only prove that evidance from other sources like Three Mudras like Swrod,Uncut Hairs and Kachhera like shorts are not contradictory to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
wjkk
wjkf
i am not saying that these things are contrardictory but if a person
does not keep them due working condition or any other factor can he be as sikh? because what i do not like is that sikhs give to much importance to these things
wjkk
wjkf
i am not saying that these things are contrardictory but if a person
does not keep them due working condition or any other factor can he be as sikh? because what i do not like is that sikhs give to much importance to these things
devinesanative
SPNer
- Sep 11, 2005
- 511
- 10
- 50
Dear Kds80 ,
If a person is weak from inside , even if you give him a sword , it won't solve any purpose .
If a person has no control over his brain and mind even if he/she wears more 10 kacheras , he/she is bound to cross limits .
If a person has kept more than kilometre long hairs , but is a thick headed , which is known as Adab in punjabi , nothing can be done .
If you are strong from inside , and as belief and faith in yourself , you have belief and faith in God automatically.
If you have belief and faith in God , then you have belief and faith in God automatically.
If a person is weak from inside , even if you give him a sword , it won't solve any purpose .
If a person has no control over his brain and mind even if he/she wears more 10 kacheras , he/she is bound to cross limits .
If a person has kept more than kilometre long hairs , but is a thick headed , which is known as Adab in punjabi , nothing can be done .
If you are strong from inside , and as belief and faith in yourself , you have belief and faith in God automatically.
If you have belief and faith in God , then you have belief and faith in God automatically.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
In Guru Granth Sahib Ji First Guru gives correct meanings of Islam and Vaishnavsm to thier followers.
We as a Sikh can understadn that.
Then coming to hold Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our Guru.It is not writtan in Guru Granth Sahib to behold scripture as Guru but rather to behold Gurubani or verse as Guru.
Yes in Sarbloh Granth it is said but along side this we have been told to keep Treh Mudra.
As er holy Kuran person can have salvation on three terms.
1.Have faith in Alllah
2.Do good tasks
3.Have faith in day when you will be judged by God.
in 3rd our thing is that we do not interpret it as one day for all ie Qayamt but days for individuals.
Das just wants to say that if we study Holy Vedas,Holy Bible and Holy Kuran in the light of Guru Granth Sahib Ji we will be able get more logical meanings of the same.
das wants you to have a look on links below.
http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/epilogue_sikh.html
In Guru Granth Sahib Ji First Guru gives correct meanings of Islam and Vaishnavsm to thier followers.
We as a Sikh can understadn that.
Then coming to hold Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our Guru.It is not writtan in Guru Granth Sahib to behold scripture as Guru but rather to behold Gurubani or verse as Guru.
Yes in Sarbloh Granth it is said but along side this we have been told to keep Treh Mudra.
As er holy Kuran person can have salvation on three terms.
1.Have faith in Alllah
2.Do good tasks
3.Have faith in day when you will be judged by God.
in 3rd our thing is that we do not interpret it as one day for all ie Qayamt but days for individuals.
Das just wants to say that if we study Holy Vedas,Holy Bible and Holy Kuran in the light of Guru Granth Sahib Ji we will be able get more logical meanings of the same.
das wants you to have a look on links below.
http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/epilogue_sikh.html
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Das anyway gives a give apluause to DS Ji.
to KDS Ji ,
Das wants to repeat that primaryly it is faith in Akal that is must and Rahit will come next only.
Das anyway gives a give apluause to DS Ji.
to KDS Ji ,
Das wants to repeat that primaryly it is faith in Akal that is must and Rahit will come next only.
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
