Reincarnation / Transmigration: Revisited & Re-explored

[japjisahib04]

There is enough examples in Gurbani where reincarnation is mentioned, hence it will be futile to deny this based on Gurbani context. Even in the life records of the Gurus we find some examples of reincarnation. There are cases of new life after death reported in press as well and some cases I have interviewed personally and found them to be correct without doubt; there is certainly something to it which needs to be studied further.

S. Dalvindersingh Jee

can you please quote a shabad which according to you refers to life after death.

 

[Theologian]

We will have to agree to disagree I am afraid. I don't think you are getting past the individual identity to see everything as ONE. I am looking beyond all duality as duality is part of the Creation. A Sikh is supposed to strive for that ONEness, not some promised Heaven vs a Hell which would mean they were still indeed very much within the illusion of Maya. Only where duality is rectified and everything is unity and ONE is the 'I AM' free from duality.

Wow I am impressed by your maturity and wisdom. Usually most people who come across another that does not hold a similar view can not peacefully conclude it. When most people have their views asserted and strengthened over time, it is hard for it to be changed unless big enough, convincible ways are expressed. Works both ways for us in this case. Unfortunately due to both contradictory paths being shown in the SGGS, it is hard to get to the root unless a very deep study is made. The main thing that has made me convinced of my views is of having 3/4 experiences that are more than a near death experience in my view, with a two way understanding with supernatural situations after studying the major religions.

 

[Theologian]

Are you proposing that hell literally and physically exists within the earth?

I am reiterating what the Sikhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam religions agree upon. As including the other religions adds more credit to the Sikhi side of Heaven/Hell mentioned by the founder Guru Nanak, who was the only one summoned to God while he was living on Earth. Guru Gobind Singh Ji talked much more about Hell, he was the Idol smasher, as such his hate was for treating a rock as the Almighty.

 

[Theologian]

Possibly you have not read me the way I have written. I clearly said that I have interviewed some chaps who remembered their life before rebirth and it was so beyond doubt. Hence I do not doubt life after death. I said for more details further study should be carried out where questions like 'why no one remembers if he was an animal or otherwise' can be solved. There was studied being depicted on one of the net where a lady was shown as getting the individual recall his past life. There were some people who were animals and birds in their past life as well. Why they got various lives was also discussed. To say that there is no after life mere on guess work cannot be accepted. If one has not come across scuh cases one cannot just say that there is no case of after life.

I am not going on guess work, I have studied deeply the major religions and looked at the creation of this Earth, as the fingerprints of God is all over this Earth. Do you know what the chances are for this Earth being made the way it is? Read below...

For every reincarnation memory recalled, there is at least double/triple Heaven/Hell experience and also God experience, with God being seen in Heaven. Gods explanation from these experiences for some people having reincarnation experiences is that they are being cleverly deceived.

I was originally an atheist living a on/off criminal lifestyle till one day a supernatural situation changed me and my perspective of life.

I however wished to challenge your opinion to see where we could conclude our debate. We are all learning as we go through this life, and I respect your view and decision in life for pursuit of the truth.


The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Wow I am impressed by your maturity and wisdom. Usually most people who come across another that does not hold a similar view can not peacefully conclude it. When most people have their views asserted and strengthened over time, it is hard for it to be changed unless big enough, convincible ways are expressed. Works both ways for us in this case. Unfortunately due to both contradictory paths being shown in the SGGS, it is hard to get to the root unless a very deep study is made. The main thing that has made me convinced of my views is of having 3/4 experiences that are more than a near death experience in my view, with a two way understanding with supernatural situations after studying the major religions.

You are not the only one to have such experiences.... All throughout my life starting at around age 8 I have had out of body experiences. I also experienced some pretty amazing things during intense simran at amrit vela - and these experiences helped me to understand that physical is false, there really is no 'heaven' or 'hell' but instead our own origin is divine and our separateness is actually false. Its how I likened it to a dream. At night I am the dreamer. My physical body is inconsequential because it's my mind which is dreaming. Therefore for metaphorical purposes, we can say I am formless in relation to the dream. I create the dream, I create the characters in it, I create the dreamworld as they all happen in my own mind. I may focus on experiencing through only one character at the moment, but in reality ALL of the characters in my dream are really me. In my dream they have form. If I touch something in the dream it feels real, I can see forms and substance in my dream. I can smell things and hear things and taste things. (in fact the five senses are nothing more than electrical signals sent to our brain... frequency). In reference to my dream, I am the Creator. Yet I am also ALL of the characters. It doesn't matter which character I am playing at any given moment, because the character is false. Even if I don't remember being me the dreamer. If while playing one character in a dream, I 'die' in the dream what happens? I just wake up! Am I concerned about the character??? The character was not really ME. It was a part I was playing temporarily only. This is similar to how our reality is. Just another dream (frequency as thought waves of Waheguru) and we are only dream characters. But just like when I dream at night I assume that character and think I am that character, in reality I am the dreamer. Similarly, Harkiran is only another character in another dream. But the awareness who is assuming this temporary identity called Harkiran, that is the dreamer. And that same awareness is playing Theologian. And all others. One day this dream will end for me and I will wake up and remember who I really am and I will know this was only a dream. Maybe I will even wake up while still in the dream!
To strive for a 'heaven' vs a 'Hell' suggests duality. Duality is still within the dream because God is ONEness. Duality gives rise to form, because there is something to compare something to. Time is also of duality because there is change. In ONEness there is no change because change means something is different from something else.

• Ik- There is ONE(Ik) reality, the origin and the source of everything. The creation did not come out of nothing. When there was nothing, there was ONE, Ik. The number 1 is used so no mistake can be made that everything arises out of 1 - singular existence.
• Onkaar- When Ik becomes the creative principal (contemplation) it becomes Onkaar. This implies awareness since only one who is aware can contemplate in order to create. In other words when everything 1 it is changeless and that means things can never happen unless someone or something initiates it, something must happen to initiate creation and from ONEness that takes active intent or else it would always remain as ONE. That should be enough to know that Creator is aware of the creation. Onkaar manifests as visible and invisible phenomenon. The creative principle is not separated from the created, it is present throughout the creation in an unbroken form, 'kaar'. Everything within the creation is essentially the Creator because there was nothing else but the Creator. (think dream analogy above).
• Satnaam- The sustaining principle of Ik is Satnaam, the True Name.
• Kartaa Purakh- Ik Onkaar is Creator and Doer (Kartaa) of everything, all the seen and unseen phenomenon. It is not just a law or a system, it is a Purakh, a Person. Gurbani says it is his (not to be confused as a male gender - it's?) hukam. Meaning Akal Purakh is NOT the hukam itself (as some like to think that the laws that govern the universe ARE God). This says otherwise. If it's the hukam OF 'Akal Purakh' then Akal Purakh exists as an initiator or creator of the hukam, and is not the hukam itself.
• Nirbhau- That Ik Onkaar is devoid of any fear, because there is nothing but itself.
• Nirvair- That Ik Onkaar is devoid of any enmity because there is nothing but itself.
• Akaal Moorat- That Ik Onkaar is beyond Time (Akaal) and yet it is existing. Its an 'image' (Moorat) which does not exist in Time because Time means change and change implies duality - something is different from something else. It is Nirgun (being formless but yet is an image because it exists, and also Sargun all form because all forms are contained within it as expression of its own contemplation).
• Ajooni- That Ik Onkaar does not condense and come into any birth. All the phenomenon of birth and death of forms are within it. (again think of dream analogy, if a dream character dies, the dreamer does not).
• Saibhang- That Ik Onkaar exists on its own, by its own. It is not caused by anything before it or beyond it. It was not created, it just exists. What is formless, that exists on its own, has creative potential, can create form within itself? Conscious Awareness. Consciousness is merely frequency, like our own brainwaves. Nothing in science can account for how mashing a bunch of electrons together can create conscious self awareness - an internal thought reality... the I AM. Consciousness exists beyond the physical.
• Gurprasaad- That Ik Onkaar is expresses itself through a channel known as Guru and it is only its own Grace and Mercy (Prasaad) that this happens.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Also reference the perfection of Earth, I am sure you know that In even our galaxy alone there are over 100 billion stars, and even if you take only 1% of those as having a solar system, and only 1% of those having planets with solid surface and only 1& of those in the 'liquid water zone' you will still have millions of possibilities for life. That's just our own galaxy the milky way. Hubble space telescope had looked for 11 days at one part the sky which seemed to be dark (as in no visible stars) and what they saw blew everyone away. In one tiny spot in the sky, where seemingly nothing existed this is what they saw!
(Note that every single blur dot and smear on the image is an ENTIRE galaxy, some smaller some larger than ours but ALL of them with billions of stars each). Still think Earth is the only planet created so perfectly for life? Gurbani actually mentions that there are countless of galaxies...

 

[chazSingh]

He is caught and thrown into the most horrible hell - SGGS Page 309

There are many layers to Gurbani...and on many instances also refers to ones state of mind being in hell or heaven state. Also Gurbani talks of inner world, realms, dimensions etc etc..

So i'm leaning towards the state of ones mind determining what you see, experience etc etc through our existence in this vast creation of inner worlds, realms, dimensions.

the shabad you listed above gives so much in-site on this, it's amazing...and i'm glad you listed it..

The human body is a great fortress, with its shops and streets within.
The Gurmukh who comes to trade gathers the cargo of the Lord's Name
He deals in the treasure of the Lord's Name, the jewels and the diamonds.
Those who search for this treasure outside of the body, in other places, are foolish demons.
They wander around in the wilderness of doubt, like the deer who searches for the musk in the bushes.


Amazing don't you think...it tells us where to look? where everything is accessible...through the stargate of the body...and we as human beings have this jewel of an opportunity to experience, today..whilst alive..

thats if we look in the right direction

Maybe we will get all the answers to these questions 'First Hand'

 

[sukhsingh]

impressed by your maturity and wisdom

And do you think you could demonstrate some... You were quick to judge but not so quick to apologise..?

 

[Theologian]

And do you think you could demonstrate some... You were quick to judge but not so quick to apologise..?

Hey there hope you doing good

 

[sukhsingh]

Hey there hope you doing good

I'm doing very well thank you I thought after your haste response judging me you may have responded with some grace. Evidently not.. Maybe you were 'projecting'?
Sukh