Repercussions Of Cutting My Hair

[spnadmin]

Thanks Spiritual Singh ji for pointing out how narrow some can be to the point of missing your point. It is maddening. I think Tejwant ji was looking for a clarification, of your ideas of being a Sikh inside and outside.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I am a turbaned Sikh with Kes .

I am just against the Definition of Sikh that, Beard and Kes alone makes a Sikh,although it is an important aspect of Sikhi but inner spiritual values that Guru Granth Sahib teaches us is not even counted towards the definition of a Sikh.

Bani is more important than Bana, but when I say this, people take it as Bana is not important only bani is which is not my point,see the word "alone" in my previous statement.

I hope you got my point.

Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response. Spnadmin ji has made my point very well and I have been talking about bana as a facade in this forum for years. If it IS a facade, but who knows the truth about that except Ik Ong Kaar?

No person can find that out no matter how much he/she tries.

I am just against the Definition of Sikh that, Beard and Kes alone makes a Sikh

No one claimed that.

Both matter but one can not see the inner side of a person. Sikhi is like a kripan with a sheath- inner and outer.


That is why Sikhi is the journey of the individual and it is our duty to become better. One is not born a Sikh but becomes one. No one can know what is the inner side of an individual.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[SpiritualSingh]

Guru Fateh

Both matter but one can not see the inner side of a person. Sikhi is like a kripan with a sheath- inner and outer.

No one can know what is the inner side of an individual.

Only a good person can be a Good Sikh,Hindu,Muslim etc.

It is quite easy to find out inner side of an individual .

Here are few simple ways to see the inner values of a person:

1. Look how that person deals with his juniors, inferiors,colleagues, etc .
2. Does he stand for the truth or even support truth or is like "Sanu ki lena maro goli te pehe kamao bas"
3. What is his/her character,opinion towards opposite sex.
4. Does he stand for his words.
5. Does that Sikh have empathy towards suffering of others.
6. Does that individual care when his actions can tarnish image of Sikhs
etc

If the individual fails on most of the above point then his outer Sikhi is "Laash da Shinghaar" as per Guru Granth Sahib.

Sikhi is the journey of the individual

For most people this journey starts with keeping beard, kes, Turban, going to Gurudwara and ends there only.

You don't become Sikh by getting birthed into Sikh family or looking like a Sikh,You have to earn it in the heart.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Let me warn you, I am in a mood today and likely to be very blunt.

As far as being a Sikh goes, once you trim your beard, there is no reason not to cut your hair. You keep kesh or you don't. Obviously, you don't. Kesh is a gift from Guru ji. If you don't want to accept it, it's up to you. Many Sikhs these days don't.

Being a visible Sikh is a big responsibility. You represent all of us to the world. They look at you and see me. If your heart and mind are not into it, I don't like what they see. More important, as a visible Sikh, you are a representative of our Gurus Sahiban. Think about it.

If you don't want to live as a Sikh, it's probably better if you don't look like one. I do agree with spnadmin. Don't avoid gurudwara and shabads and sewa and all that good stuff. The SRM definition of a Sikh says nothing about hair and if you believe in the basic Sikh beliefs, you are a Sikh no matter what you look like.

I feel bad for your grandparents though.

And, Harry, your response is a classic that deserves a wide readership.

 

[spnadmin]

Last 3 posts deleted. Penalties awarded. Let's start over. Inderjeet Kaur ji was not speaking to SpiritualSingh ji! SpiritualSingh ji has made a good case. The referee doesn't want to discuss it.

 

[aristotle]

For me, its all a matter of one's own perspective and intentions. Most of the times, we try to find some fitting argument after having already made up our mind.
Being a Sikh is not an ordeal, and we shouldn't make it one. The SRM is a very clear document, either you follow it or you don't, there's no pick and choose.
Those who intended to follow the rehat did it even in the face of tyrannies and holocausts; those who don't, they don't even in the comfort of favourable times. All a matter of perspective. Sikhi is not how the world sees you, it is how you find yourself answerable to Guru Maharaj.

 

[gurtej khubbar]

For me, its all a matter of one's own perspective and intentions. Most of the times, we try to find some fitting argument after having already made up our mind.
Being a Sikh is not an ordeal, and we shouldn't make it one. The SRM is a very clear document, either you follow it or you don't, there's no pick and choose.
Those who intended to follow the rehat did it even in the face of tyrannies and holocausts; those who don't, they don't even in the comfort of favourable times. All a matter of perspective. Sikhi is not how the world sees you, it is how you find yourself answerable to Guru Maharaj.

So one question is, will guru maharaj treat me differently if I keep hair? Does that mean that all world population excluding a Sikhs will be treated differently by waheguru ?

As far as I know sikhi, no waheguru will not discriminate.. So y shud v bother? Also, if someone wants to keep hair, then one should not discriminate either. I shud not be judged by the way I look..

If answer is yes, then I really need to ask the question... Is it worth praying on the creator who will discriminate just bcoz I cut my hair..

 

[gurtej khubbar]

Lucky is on the right path because he is a Sikh from both outside and inside

Again does this mean that everyone who is not a sikh from outside is following a wrong path?

 

[aristotle]

Gurtej Ji,
The question in our religion(unlike others) is not who goes to heaven and who doesn't. The SRM is a completely different kind of committment, it is not based on materialistic lollipops.
So, 'why should I bother to follow the SRM, why not just read the bani and have a nice time?' is a very valid question indeed. The definition of a Sikh is not just a person who doesn't have haircuts. But, mind it, 'Bana' is no inferior to the 'Bani'. The external appearance of a Sikh is a part of our committment towards the Guru's cause, so is our Nitnem, and so very much also are the virtues we are needed to practice. All the 'selective picking' stuff stems from the fact that we tend to see every part of the SRM in isolation, which was not how it was intended to be in the first place. External showoff is not an organ of Sikhi (it is instead referred to as 'Bhekh', a disgraceful word in Sikh terminology). 'Bana' becomes 'Bhekh' when you dont unite it with a truthful living; and Nitnem is just a parroting exericise, virtues are mere showoffs if you are doing them to book a place in a heaven for your afterlife, or because people will admire you. If you ask me in the conclusion 'Is Bana needed?', I'll answer, 'Yes, and not only that, but every single sentence of the SRM needs to be fulfilled'.
As for discrimination if you cut your hair, you are part of a religion that welcomes the 'Sarbat' with open arms, how could it possibly discrimate against you? Sikhi is all love, all embracing. (that you will fall short of SRM is a completely different thing, and for a person like me, that would mean quite a devastating thing).

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

Thanks for the response.

Only a good person can be a Good Sikh,Hindu,Muslim etc.

I hope your 'etc.' does include the Athiests.

Good is a very subjective thing. Only Ik Ong Kaar knows who is good or not. As Sikhs, it is our duty to become good ourselves and pitch in the society to make it better. Goodness of an individual is only shown in his or her deeds.

It is quite easy to find out inner side of an individual .

Yes it is, if your prejudge them with your own biased conclusions.

Here are few simple ways to see the inner values of a person:

1. Look how that person deals with his juniors, inferiors,colleagues, etc .
2. Does he stand for the truth or even support truth or is like "Sanu ki lena maro goli te pehe kamao bas"
3. What is his/her character,opinion towards opposite sex.
4. Does he stand for his words.
5. Does that Sikh have empathy towards suffering of others.
6. Does that individual care when his actions can tarnish image of Sikhs
etc

Once again you are pre judging others. You have no right nor the reasons to know if it is their behaviuoral pattern unless they are part of your family or the people you normally hang out with, and if you do then you know they always act in this manner. And if you do not, then it could be one or two of their 'blasts' that we all have as Sikhs- learners. This is what Sikhi and learning through it are all about.

If they whom you do not hang out with have changed their behaviour to better or worse you do not know that either. Only Ik Ong Kaar does.
Or as they say, one is known for the company one keeps.

If the individual fails on most of the above point then his outer Sikhi is "Laash da Shinghaar" as per Guru Granth Sahib.

Please quote the whole Shabad with your own understanding about it along with the page number so we can all understand what it means.

Quoting one liner from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru to prove one's point is an insult to our Gurbani and Gurus especially when it is not a complimentary verse which is plucked out.

Once again you are judging others. A Sikh has to look within and judge him/herself. That is what Gurbani teaches us. It is futile to play Ik Ong Kaar by judging others no matter how ill their behaviour may be.

For most people this journey starts with keeping beard, kes, Turban, going to Gurudwara and ends there only.

Once again prejudging others. How do you know what is in their hearts?

You can only talk about yourself and how your journey started and how it continues. You as a Sikh, a learner, a seeker can only do that, otherwise one becomes like the fundies in other religions who send the rest to Hell.

You don't become Sikh by getting birthed into Sikh family or looking like a Sikh,You have to earn it in the heart.

I agree and said that in my post. It is all about becoming a Sikh. It matters not whether one is born in a Sikh family or not.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

ah

Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

Thanks for the response.



I hope your 'etc.' does include the Athiests.

Good is a very subjective thing. Only Ik Ong Kaar knows who is good or not. As Sikhs, it is our duty to become good ourselves and pitch in the society to make it better. Goodness of an individual is only shown in his or her deeds.



Yes it is, if your prejudge them with your own biased conclusions.



Once again you are pre judging others. You have no right nor the reasons to know if it is their behaviuoral pattern unless they are part of your family or the people you normally hang out with, and if you do then you know they always act in this manner. And if you do not, then it could be one or two of their 'blasts' that we all have as Sikhs- learners. This is what Sikhi and learning through it are all about.

If they whom you do not hang out with have changed their behaviour to better or worse you do not know that either. Only Ik Ong Kaar does.
Or as they say, one is known for the company one keeps.



Please quote the whole Shabad with your own understanding about it along with the page number so we can all understand what it means.

Quoting one liner from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru to prove one's point is an insult to our Gurbani and Gurus especially when it is not a complimentary verse which is plucked out.

Once again you are judging others. A Sikh has to look within and judge him/herself. That is what Gurbani teaches us. It is futile to play Ik Ong Kaar by judging others no matter how ill their behaviour may be.



Once again prejudging others. How do you know what is in their hearts?

You can only talk about yourself and how your journey started and how it continues. You as a Sikh, a learner, a seeker can only do that, otherwise one becomes like the fundies in other religions who send the rest to Hell.



I agree and said that in my post. It is all about becoming a Sikh. It matters not whether one is born in a Sikh family or not.

Tejwant Singh

ah.....now I understand

 

[SpiritualSingh]

You have no right nor the reasons to know if it is their behaviuoral pattern unless they are part of your family or the people you normally hang out with

You said there is no way to find inner world of person, so i gave you easy way. Atleast you can determine who is real and who is fake in your society if you wish to.

And aren't you judging when you look for outer display as the way to say that he is on the Journey of inner Sikhi as if it is gaurenteed.


I am not prejudging others but telling the major trend, I didn't say everbody is like that.

"Laash/Murde Da shinghaar " I heard this from Maskeen Ji, referring to wearing religious robes without inner values. I will look for the exact Page from Gurbani.

Gurtej khubbar made a very good point that,You don't even have to be a Sikh to be dear to God let alone this over focus on outer display while sidelining inner values by saying only God knows .

Truth is that Only a person with true inner value is dear to God with or without religious looks Period !

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

"Laash/Murde Da shinghaar " I heard this from Maskeen Ji, referring to wearing religious robes without inner values. I will look for the exact Page from Gurbani.

My bad. I had no idea you were talking about hearsay. In your original post you claimed it was in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which implies that you must have studied it yourself not heard from Maskeen ji's Katha; as is the duty of every Sikh, especially those who put more emphasis on the Sikhi from the inside and rightfully so. One can hear a lot of snippets from learned people and then as the duty of any Sikh demands, study about it in details from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on one's own to form the opinion.

If the individual fails on most of the above point then his outer Sikhi is "Laash da Shinghaar" as per Guru Granth Sahib (not as per Maskeen ji).

Gurbani is not about hearsays. This is the reason I mentioned in my post that Sikhi is the journey of the individual with one's own efforts.

I will wait for the whole Shabad with your own understanding.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[SpiritualSingh]

Aren't you trying to drag me into technicalities of one point alone while ignoring all other points in my last post in response to ur questions.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Aren't you trying to drag me into technicalities of one point alone while ignoring all other points in my last post in response to ur questions.

Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Gurbani may be technicality for you but it is part and parcel of many Sikhs' lives including myself's. Wouldn't you agree?

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our only Guru we learn from. So, please do not shun it away with your hand gesture and call it a mere technicality. It is the lifeline for every Sikh. All your points were centered on what you claimed you studied in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.In fact here it is in your own words.

If the individual fails on most of the above point then his outer Sikhi is "Laash da Shinghaar" as per Guru Granth Sahib

Isn't that the true essence of our inner Sikhi as you claimed in your posts?

Hope to read the whole Shabad with your understanding and learn from it.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[BlazinSikh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

Mr Veerhora Ji, asked a simple question and by asking a simple question he has been given knowledge and understanding that is rarely found with in a Sikh sangat nowadays. However this thread has helped more than one person but may have helped, and may help other Sikhs in the future. The fact is i believe majority amount of Sikhs probably go through this stage of sikhi in which we start to question how sikhi we are, i defiantly know that i have (honest to Waheguru i am going through it at this current moment), seeing other Sikhs especially those who call themselves Gursikhs, and seeing the way they are in love with sikhi and then comparing myself to see how just of a "failed" Sikh i am.

Now i hope Mr Tejwant Singh Ji and Mr SpiritualSingh Ji do not mind me giving my personal opinion. My personal view is i think there is no such thing has true Sikh living on this earth, because if there ever was a true Sikh then i believe then that person would not be living here on earth but would much rather have been absorbed in to Waheguru Ji, my view of a Sikh would be a human being TRYING to be a TRUE SIKH from THE INSIDE and from THE OUTSIDE, rather then worrying or caring if their appearance is up to standards or if there happy from within. Being a Sikh is both from being IN and OUT trying to keep a balance with one self, and when i mean being a Sikh from the OUTSIDE i do not mean merely having a turban and a full kesh but i also mean by having a positive attitude (chardi kala), a loving being and a human/Sikh being who is willing to place himself last in life in order to help other, these to me are a quality of Sikh from the external view, just the way most of the SPN User are.

I hope what i have typed has not offended anyone, if so then i do apologies.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh.

 

[Luckysingh]

Yes , I agree. Being a true sikh is a lifetime achievement.
There is ALWAYS going to be room for improvement and bettering your sikhi to be gurmukh. If you get to the stage where you think that you have 'maxed' and reach the maximum gurmukh level, then i'm afraid you have let your 'ego' get the better of you !

 

[SpiritualSingh]

From now on I will not quote from someone until I find that verse in Guru Granth Sahib as it may be from Dassam Grath.

Some related Versus regarding inner outer things from Guru Granth Sahib are listed below:

ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਤ ਭੇਖੀ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ [Page 226, Line 14]
Acting in egotism, the Lord is not known, even by wearing religious robes.


ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਸਚੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ [Page 738, Line 12]
He wears religious robes, but he does not practice Truth.


ਅਨਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਅਰੁ ਙਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਿਲਿਅਉ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ [Page 251, Line 4]
By all sorts of religious robes, knowledge, meditation and stubborn-mindedness, no one has ever met God.


ਭੇਖ ਕਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ [Page 1058, Line 4]
and wears religious robes, but he does not live to the Word of the Guru's Shabad.


ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮਲੁ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ [Page 267, Line 11]
Outwardly, they wear religious robes, but within is the filth of Maya.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਮਨੂਆ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਧਾਵੈ ॥ [Page 732, Line 9]
Outwardly, he wears religious robes and he is very clever, but his mind wanders in the ten directions.


ਬਾਹਰ ਭੇਖਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥ [Page 1099, Line 7]
By wearing religious robes outwardly, God, the Inner-knower is not found.

ਬਹੁਤੇ ਭੇਖ ਕਰੇ ਭੇਖਧਾਰੀ ॥ [Page 1067, Line 18]
Many disguise themselves with religious robes.


ਭੇਖੀ ਹਾਥ ਨ ਲਭਈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਹੀ ਦਾਨੇ ॥ [Page 1012, Line 13]
Wearing religious robes, the Lord is not obtained, nor is He obtained by giving donations at sacred shrines of pilgrimage.


ਮੁਖਿ ਸੰਜਮ ਹਛਾ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਕਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਭਵੈ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ॥ [Page 1416, Line 18]
Speaking about self-discipline, no one become pure; everyone walks around wearing religious robes.

 

[BlazinSikh]

From now on I will not quote from someone until I find that verse in Guru Granth Sahib as it may be from Dassam Grath.

Some related Versus regarding inner outer things from Guru Granth Sahib are listed below:

ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਤ ਭੇਖੀ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ [Page 226, Line 14]
Acting in egotism, the Lord is not known, even by wearing religious robes.


ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਸਚੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ [Page 738, Line 12]
He wears religious robes, but he does not practice Truth.


ਅਨਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਅਰੁ ਙਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਿਲਿਅਉ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ [Page 251, Line 4]
By all sorts of religious robes, knowledge, meditation and stubborn-mindedness, no one has ever met God.


ਭੇਖ ਕਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ [Page 1058, Line 4]
and wears religious robes, but he does not live to the Word of the Guru's Shabad.


ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮਲੁ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ [Page 267, Line 11]
Outwardly, they wear religious robes, but within is the filth of Maya.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਮਨੂਆ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਧਾਵੈ ॥ [Page 732, Line 9]
Outwardly, he wears religious robes and he is very clever, but his mind wanders in the ten directions.


ਬਾਹਰ ਭੇਖਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥ [Page 1099, Line 7]
By wearing religious robes outwardly, God, the Inner-knower is not found.

ਬਹੁਤੇ ਭੇਖ ਕਰੇ ਭੇਖਧਾਰੀ ॥ [Page 1067, Line 18]
Many disguise themselves with religious robes.


ਭੇਖੀ ਹਾਥ ਨ ਲਭਈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਹੀ ਦਾਨੇ ॥ [Page 1012, Line 13]
Wearing religious robes, the Lord is not obtained, nor is He obtained by giving donations at sacred shrines of pilgrimage.


ਮੁਖਿ ਸੰਜਮ ਹਛਾ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਕਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਭਵੈ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ॥ [Page 1416, Line 18]
Speaking about self-discipline, no one become pure; everyone walks around wearing religious robes.

WOW! Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maraj has spoken, where we debated on a topic for suitable answer, the answer has already been answered. A true devotee of GOD would care on what they wear on their physical body but would much care on what they wear on their soul, and what should be worn on the soul should be the word of the guru.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

 

[Tejwant Singh]

From now on I will not quote from someone until I find that verse in Guru Granth Sahib as it may be from Dassam Grath.

Some related Versus regarding inner outer things from Guru Granth Sahib are listed below:

ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਤ ਭੇਖੀ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ [Page 226, Line 14]
Acting in egotism, the Lord is not known, even by wearing religious robes.


ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਸਚੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ [Page 738, Line 12]
He wears religious robes, but he does not practice Truth.


ਅਨਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਅਰੁ ਙਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਿਲਿਅਉ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ [Page 251, Line 4]
By all sorts of religious robes, knowledge, meditation and stubborn-mindedness, no one has ever met God.


ਭੇਖ ਕਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ [Page 1058, Line 4]
and wears religious robes, but he does not live to the Word of the Guru's Shabad.


ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮਲੁ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ [Page 267, Line 11]
Outwardly, they wear religious robes, but within is the filth of Maya.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਮਨੂਆ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਧਾਵੈ ॥ [Page 732, Line 9]
Outwardly, he wears religious robes and he is very clever, but his mind wanders in the ten directions.


ਬਾਹਰ ਭੇਖਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥ [Page 1099, Line 7]
By wearing religious robes outwardly, God, the Inner-knower is not found.

ਬਹੁਤੇ ਭੇਖ ਕਰੇ ਭੇਖਧਾਰੀ ॥ [Page 1067, Line 18]
Many disguise themselves with religious robes.


ਭੇਖੀ ਹਾਥ ਨ ਲਭਈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਹੀ ਦਾਨੇ ॥ [Page 1012, Line 13]
Wearing religious robes, the Lord is not obtained, nor is He obtained by giving donations at sacred shrines of pilgrimage.


ਮੁਖਿ ਸੰਜਮ ਹਛਾ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਕਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਭਵੈ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ॥ [Page 1416, Line 18]
Speaking about self-discipline, no one become pure; everyone walks around wearing religious robes.

Spritirual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh

I have no qualms about your thought process. In fact you and I think very much alike. SPN has the threads and posts from me in the same respect since its inception.

My only problem with you arose when you claimed something written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (which was totally false) to emphasise our discussion about inner and outer Sikhi. In order to prove your point of the importance of inner Sikhi -with which I totally agree- you wrote the following:

If the individual fails on most of the above point then his outer Sikhi is "Laash da Shinghaar" as per Guru Granth Sahib

I know it is not from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which you later admitted that you had heard it from Maskeen ji. Personally, your claim was offensive to me when you claimed it from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru;especially when the conversation is about the importance of inner Sikhi.

Hence, my insistence on your giving me the page from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the whole Shabad.

Now, let me tell you something about Maskeen ji, he used lots of Hindutva in his kathas. I bought his 40 cassette pack on Jap explanation in Vancouver in 1987 and listened to it driving all the way from Vancouver to Los Angeles. I was mesmerised although it was too long and he told many unrelated stories in between.

Later on in life when I had the true quench for Sikhi, I started studying Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and books related to it on my own. Thus, my true journey on this Sikhi Train began. During the studies, I started finding out how Maskeen ji was making fool of people who loved his great oratory of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by mixing the stories laced with Hindutva.

I want to point out one important thing though, that Maskeen ji and other Sikh Scholars of the past did play an important role in Sikhi but the beauty of Sikhi is that it evolves with time. The evolution of every Sikh on his/her own is how the growth of Sikhi is based on and this great idea - the seed- was sown by our visionary Guru Nanak and followed by the others.

Case in point is this very phrase “ Laash da shingaar” (Maskeen ji has used the actual Hindi term- “Laash ka shingaar” many times) which is picked from Hinduism.

When Guru Nanak died, it is a common Sakhi that both the Hindus and the Muslims wanted his body for the last rites because he belonged to both peoples in their minds with his brilliant ideas of equality and justice for all. The Sakhi says that he was covered with a simple sheet. The Sikhs that died mainly in the battle fields were also cremated in the simplest possible manner.

Simplicity was the norm in Sikhi because Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says that in many verses.

"Naked you came, naked you shall depart”. Guru Nanak says it on Page 74 Line 17. Guru Arjan says the same on Page 206, Line 13. Guru Arjan says it again in a different way on Page 210, Line 10. There are many other verses like that in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

On the other side, the Hindus dress their dead with their ‘Sunday’s best’ even with gold ornaments to emulate their gods and goddesses. Sadly, we have adapted the same ritual by decorating our dead with the ‘Shingaar’ and have run away from simplicity.

Bhagat Kabir puts it the best about ‘Laash ka Shingaar’: Page 324, Line 5
"What does it matter whether someone goes naked, or wears a deer skin".

Now, coming back to the verses you have posted. All the verses prove the point I have been trying to make. Those are all pointed towards us by our Gurus, not we pointing them at others.

I thank you for the effort of digging them from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru. Now, let’s take this a step further for our own learning.

Starting from the first verse, please post the whole Shabad with your own understanding. You may also use the literal translation as a reference but with a caution as most of them are misleading. But the most important thing is your personal understanding and let other readers pitch in with their own so we can all learn from each other. We do have a place for this on SPN: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/shabad-of-the-week/

Lastly, I would like to point out what you said in the very first sentence of your post:

From now on I will not quote from someone until I find that verse in Guru Granth Sahib as it may be from Dassam Grath.

There is no such thing as Dasam Granth. There are many threads here where it is discussed and debated quite openly and in great lengths.

Sikhs have only One Guru which is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But, we will leave that discussion for another day.

Hope to learn from your understanding of the Shabads.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh