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Sects Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth And The Radha Soami

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Tejwant Singh

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

waheguruseekr ji
Okay just leave rajneesh out for a moment.
what about krishna? what about buddha? what about mahavir?
Give some informations about their cults too?


Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

Why forget about Rajneesh?

I have just proved you again how dishonest you are. Nothing more need to be said.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

ps: btw what is your name so I can address you properly?
 
Mar 1, 2009
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

vaheguruseekr ji
I have just proved you again how dishonest you are. Nothing more need to be said.

You dont need to prove me dishonest, I am dishonest.
Again you took so much pain to prove me dishonest.
Next time just ask me, and i will accept myself whatever you want me to.

My name is sadhu, and you can call me 'a dishonest sadhu' if you like.
 

Astroboy

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Guru Ratings Main Page


The ratings are:
Ratebud3.gif
= the greats, helping many
Ratebud2h.gif
= limited, some handicaps, or maybe not yet full stature
Ratebud2.gif
= very limited, narrow approach or ideology, or still developing
Ratebud1h.gif
= suspect but on balance positive
Ratebud1.gif
= suspect
Ratebudh.gif
= bogus, may have some value, who knows
Ratebud0.gif
= worse than bogus, no redeeming value
Unrated
= too new, old or retiring, not enough info, or a "teacher" type
To view a list of all the rated gurus organized by rating, Click here
For a fuller explanation of the rating characterizations, Click here
 

spnadmin

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

NamJap ji

I remember posting this site more than a year ago on another False Baba thread. Whoever Sarlo is -- that is one creative person with real intellect and a dry sense of humor. Behind each link on the site is a wealth of information too. :up:
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

waheguruseekr ji
Okay just leave rajneesh out for a moment.
what about krishna? what about buddha? what about mahavir?
Give some informations about their cults too?

As the saying goes......Jihrra pakrria giya oh CHOR.....baki de saadh ??
The one caught red handed is thief..rest are "saints" ??
Cults are cults...lets leave ALL of them aside...why waste time ??Precious little we have anyway ??:welcome::yes::ice:
 

Astroboy

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Quoted by Sadhu Ji,

Gurbani is much more than mere poetry, in fact it is the raining nectar as you said, but the condition of the people who read gurugranth sahib does not convince me that it has a divine nectar. The condition of the people does convince me, that something essential in gurbani is lost, something of tremendous value is missing, because

If there was any raining nectar, the people would have been ecstatic, rejoicing, drunk, and fullfilled after reading it. Which i have not seen till date.

If there was any raining nectar, the people would have never ever bothered to go to babas, sadhus, sants etc. As i can see hundreds of babas in punjab, lakhs of Sikh people following them.

If there was any divine nectar there would not have been any politics in the name of sikhism. As i can see the politics and sikhism have been totally intermingled in punjab.

If there was any divine nectar, the Sikh Youth would not have been drifted away from their faith, just by some stupid bollywood movies and the western culture. As i can see almost 90 percent of Sikh Youth with haircuts and most of them don't even know A,B,C of gurbani.Either this raining nectar is not tasty as it is failing to attract people to read gurbani, or it does not even exist.

Sadhu Ji,

From the above, I have gathered that you have been brain-washed by a typical cult to think only to believe in a physically living sant to attain jivan mukti.

So here I would like to ask a few questions about Guru Arjan Dev Ji's martyrdom.
Why did he choose to give his life instead of cherishing his physical body.

Would it matter to us if we lived only for 30 years or 90 years in the physical body ?

What do you understand by " Mil Sadh sangat Bhaj Keval Naam"
 
May 24, 2008
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Condition of Living Guru and their Gurudom



To pass a base coin, to declare a gold coated substance as gold or to sell an ordinary red stone as a ruby is an act of cheating. Similarly to declare and propagate oneself as the Guru like the True Gurus who guided us in their ten lives is nothing short of deceit and impostorous act. The tenth master admonishes such imposters in one of his composition which is as under -

Kdhey ko dimbh karai man murakh,
dhimb karey apni pat khavai hai.
Kahey ko log thagey thag logan,
lok gaio parlok gavai hai.
Din dayal ki thaur jahan,
tih thaur bikhai tuhe thaur n ai hai.
IChet rey chet achet mahan jarh,
bhekh key kiney alekh n pai hai. (33 Sawaiyas)

The great master tells us - "0 foolish person, why do you try to project yourself as a holyrnan through deceit? You are only losing your respect due to these impostorous and deceitful acts. Have you vowed to swindle and cheat the world ? Be convinced that by such acts, you will neither be able to achieve higher spiritual state here nor receive respect in the world hereafter. You will never be able to seek a place equal to a pinhead in the realms of the Merciful and Benevolent Lord, the True Protector of the poor and weaks."
"0 foolish, imposter and guileful mendicant, come to '·our senses. You will never be able to realise the Lord through such malicious means ."

Imposters ruin their lives here and hereafter, because-
­Ughar(i) gaia jaisa khotd dhabua,
nadar(i) sarafa aid.

(Page 381)

The cheaters are caught by the genuine traders. Like Bhai 'Makhan Shah' disclosed the falsehood of the self styled gurus who had professed themselves as the real one at 'Bakala'. Bhai Gurdas ji tells us about these fake gurus, that they may adopt any number of trIcks and tactics to hide their evil minds, they get spotted easily by'their deeds and actions -

Guchha hoe dhrikanua(n) kiyo(n) vurhiai dakhai.
Akkai keri khakhri koi ambh(u) n akhai.
Gehney jio(n) jarpose dey, nahin soen sakhai.
Phatk n pujan(i) heeria(n) ue bharey biakhai.
Dhauley disan(i) chhahey dudh(u) sadau gun gakhai.
Tio sadh asadh parkhian(i) kartot(i) subhakhai.
(Var 35/17)

Note - Dhrikanu are berry like fruit that grows on a tree called 'Dharek' in the Punjab. It belongs to Margosa (Neem) family. The fruit is not edible nor the tree has the properties akin to Neem. 'Akk' is a wild plant that grows abundantly in arid conditions. Its leaves contain white juice that is very bitter. Its fruit looks like mangoes.
In the above step (Pauri) Bhai Gurdas ji says that a bunch of Dhirkanu can't be called a bunch of dates. The fruit of 'Akk' though looks like mango can't be called mango, ornaments coated with a thin layer of gold though shine like gold can't be called as made of gold. A glass marble may be very shinning but can be no where near a diamond. The diamonds are priceless or very expensive . Milk and butter though carry the same colour are much different in taste and other properties. Similarly a genuine holy man and a fake can be recognised by their deeds and speech. The long robe, round turban and wooden slippers in their feet do not prove that they are holymen. Its their actions which will disclose what they are.
The fake Gurus are so many in number and their pomp and show is so attractive that simple people keep getting attracted to them in large number every day. When one imposter makes a successful living, then many others appear like mushroom in rainy season. They are equally clever, cunning, selfish and unrighteous. These impostors do not have to qualify in any test to be graded as genuine or real. Therefore they establish themselves in no time.

These lovers of comforts are far from helping people with their problems. They are beyond any sacrifice for the establishment of righteousness, truth and morality. They can't imagine in their dreams what it means to beheaded for a noble cau~e, what it is like sacrificing their family for others so that. they can breathe air of freedom, nor can they bear to besawed by a saw or cut at every joint for up holding the lofty principles of their faith. If these cheats claim a status equal to or even higher than Guru Nanak, then let them take the field to fight the unrighteousness, tyranny and high handedness like those Gurus who carried the light and wisdom of Guru Nanak. These cheaters and lovers of worldly comforts are so badly engrossed in their enjoyment, luxuries, self promotion and the chronic malady of ego, that they have never shown even an iota of concern on the sad plight of millions struggling to survive the vagaries of life. The lives of Sikh Satgurus was a life of sacrifice, concern for others and aburning desire to make everyone realise what and who a man is. On the contrary these swindlers aim is to collect donations from their gullible followers through their disciples and lead a life of luxury and comfort. The Tenth Master has in one of his composition, given a graphic sketch of these imposters -
Jo kar(i) sev masandan ki,
kahai an prasad(i) sabdi mohe dijai.
Jo kichh(u) mal tvaliy mein,
so ab hi uth(i) bhet hamari kijai.
Mero hi dhian dhro nisbasr,
bhol kai aur ko nam n lijai.
Diney ko nam(u) suney bhaj(i) ratehn,
liney bina naM naik parsijai.29. (33 Sawaiyas)
The propensity of becoming a fake Guru is very ancient
in this world. If we cast an eye on the religious conditions of the world before the birth of Guru Nanak, we find that a verr large number of fake Gurus were existing then also. What the life of the followers of such cheats is evident from the following hymn of Sri Guru Granth Sahib -
Panar tap gerf key bastra.
Apda ka mariY~'greh te nasta
. Des(u) chhod(i) pardeseh dhaia.
Panch chandal naley lai aia.(4)
Kan phrae hiraey tuka.
Ghar(i) ghar(i) mangai triptavan te chukka
. Banita chhod(i) bud nadr(i) par nari.
Ves(i) n pafai maM dukhiari.(5)
Bolai nahi hoe baitad moni.
Autar(i) kalp bhavdiai joini.
An te rehta dukh(u) dehi sehta.
Hukam(u) n bujhai viapia mamta.(6)
Bin(u) sat(i)gur kinai n pai parm gatey.
Puchhau sagal beyd simratey.
Manmukh karm karai ajai.
Jio balu ghar thaur n thai.(7)
Jis nu bhaey Gobind dayala.
Gur ka bachan(u) tin(i) badhio pala.
Kot(i) madhey koi sant(u) dikhaia.
Nanak(u) tin kai sang(i) traia.(8) (Page 1348)

There was a large band of fake Gurus then. Clueless as
tlwy were, they were causing the people to sink (in mamon) than taking them across the worldly ocean. Bhai Gurdas ji has described the state beautifully in the following composition.

Jat! sat! chirjivaney sadhik sidh nath gur(u) cheley.
Devi dev rikhisura bhairau khetarpal(i) bau meley.
Gan gandharb apsarcin kinar jakh chalat(i) bau kheley.
Raks(i) dano daint lakh, andar(i) duja bhau duheley.
Haumain andar(i) sabh(i) ko, dubey gun
l saney baucll£ley. Gurmukh(i) koe n disai dhundey t!rath(i) jcitri meley.
Dithey hindu turk(i) sabh(i) pir paikcimbar(i) kaum(i) kateley.
Andhi andhey khuhey theley. 26. (Var 1)

But when Guru Nanak Dev ji blessed with the divine
knowledge appeared in the world carrying spIritual torch, the cheat gurus vanished as the darkness of night disappears when the Sun rises.

Guru Nanak taught the people to follow truthful living. When he breathed his last to go in the sanctuary of the Almighty, he blessed Bhai Lehna, one of his disciples with the God given gift of Guruship to preach and instil the divine knowledge as propounded by him. There were some followers who were not happy with the succession of Bhai Lehna ji (Guru Angad Dev ji) to the Guruship. They were apparently ignorant of the importance of a Guru. They made a vain attempt to appoint Baba Sri Chand ji and Baba Lakhmi Chand ji as the Guru in opposition to Guru Angad Dev ji. Baba Sri Chand became the founder of Udasi cult and had his body and hair smeared with ashes. Similarly when Guru Angad Dev ji passed on the divine light to one of his followers (Guru) Amar Das ji, his sons Baba Datu and Baba Dasu opposed it vehmently. Many people backed them but their efforts of making them Guru proved futile. Similarly, when Guru Amar Das ji passed the Guruship on to Bhai Jetha ji, Baba Mohan ji took urmbrage. Though his brother Baba Mohari ji bowed before Guru Ram Das ji (Bhai Jetha ji) and accepted his pontification, yet Baba Mohan ji could not reconcile to the development. And yet when Guru Ram Das ji passed on the mantle of Guruship to Guru Arjan Dev ji, his elder brothers Baba Prithi Chand and Baba Maha Dev resented and opposed the pontification vigorously. Prithi Chand made many desperate attempts to snatch Guruship from his youngest brother but could not succeed. He even went to the extent of colluding with Mughal administration to topple the Guruship of Guru Arjan Dev ji. This was the reason why Meenas the followers of Prithi Chand were excommunicated from the Sikh brotherhood and imposed religious punishment (Tankhah). Bhai Gurdasji has exposed the intentions of those fakers who projected themselves as Guru and made every effort to win over the gullible people .
­Bal jati hai Sri Chand(u) babdana dehura banaia.
. Lakhmi Dasau Dharm Chand pota huekai ap(u) gandia.
Manji Das(u) bahalia. Datu sidhdsan sikh(i) aia.
Mohan(u) kamla hoa chaubara Mohari manaia.
Meena hoa Prithfa kar(i) kar(i) tedhak barl(u) chalaia.
Mahadeo ahmeyo kar(i) kar(i) bemukh(u) kuta bhaukaia.
Chandan vas(u) n vas bohaia. (Var 26/33)

When Guru Arjan Dev ji passed on the Guruship to Guru Hargobind ji, the descendents of Prithi Chand who were then residing at Kartarpur (Jalandhar) and were known as Sodhi family, kept making plans in collusion with the rulers, of taking back Guruship from Guru Hargobind ji. Baba Dhirmal who was branded as the second Prithia by the sixth master, and named as 'Meena', kept the struggle of establishing fake Gurudom going till the times of Guru Tegh Bahadur. Sadly some Masands (Collectors of Offerings for the Guru) becoming disloyal to the divine Gurus colluded with him in his nefarious designs. All those efforts of over two decades went in vain. Guru Har Rai who succeeded Guru Hargobind Sahib passed the Guruship on to Guru Harkrishan ji, his youngest son. This antagonised the elder son Baba Ram Rai ji who out of respite became a henchman of Emperor Aurangzeb. He received favours of a few Masands and became an impostor/ Guru himself. He was later burnt alive by his own favourites­the disloyal Masands of the True Guru.
Even today some people with misconceived notions belonging to Bedi, Trehan, Bhalla or Sodhi families claim high status of Guruship by proving their lineage to their anscestor Guru. These people must keep in mind that such attempts were even made during the times of Guru Nanak but the schemers always faced defeat.
The fake Gurus must remember that by turning their back on truth and True Guru, they will have to live a life of distress and worry.
Satgur te jo muhn phereh mathey tin kaley.
Andin(u} dukh kamavdey nit johey jam jaley.
Supnai sukh(u} n dikhani bau chinta parjaley.

(Page 30)
 
Mar 1, 2009
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

From the above, I have gathered that you have been brain-washed by a typical cult to think only to believe in a physically living sant to attain jivan mukti.

So here I would like to ask a few questions about Guru Arjan Dev Ji's martyrdom.
Why did he choose to give his life instead of cherishing his physical body.

Would it matter to us if we lived only for 30 years or 90 years in the physical body ?

What do you understand by " Mil Sadh sangat Bhaj Keval Naam"

Naamjap ji
From the above, even i can say that you have been brain-washed by your typical tradition to think only to believe in the granth to attain jivan mukti.

GuruArjunDev ji gave up his life, due to the circumstances. He gave up his life, because he felt it was right, at that time. But it does not mean that the physical body of a saint is useless. It does not mean that there is no need to go to the living saints.
Besides, what would you say about the other sikh gurus who did not give up their lives? They were living saints and people visited them, loved them, and enjoyed their sangat.
" Mil sadh sangat bhaj keval naam " This happens when first of all a living sadh is present. This happened in sikhs when the gurus were alive, and people actually became enlightened in their sangat at that time.
But if there is only a sangat and a book, it is not sadh sangat. A group of unenlightened people sitting around a book, cannot be called a sadh sangat. Because sadh is not present there.
Sikhs worship a book, hindus worship idols, muslims worship a stone and i dont see much of a difference. Sikhs feel that their book is the ultimate god, hindus feel that their idols are the ultimate god, and the muslims feel that their stone is god. Not much of a difference. When the living saints are gone, every religion or cult becomes a stupid belief system. And every belief system claims that they have the ultimate truth.

Sikhs love to cling to a book, because it is comfortable and convenient for them.
A living guru is always a headache and a challenge for the ego. So they stay away from the living gurus. And sikhs beauutifully mold the meanings of the lines in the book, where the importance of a living guru is mentioned. They say that the words sant, braham gyani, or sadh, are for the god. Or they say that these are not the titles.
May be they had a talk with their dead gurus about this, and were told that these words are for god. Or they Made it by themselves to fit those lines with their own ideology.
 

Tejwant Singh

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Naamjap ji
From the above, even i can say that you have been brain-washed by your typical tradition to think only to believe in the granth to attain jivan mukti.

GuruArjunDev ji gave up his life, due to the circumstances. He gave up his life, because he felt it was right, at that time. But it does not mean that the physical body of a saint is useless. It does not mean that there is no need to go to the living saints.
Besides, what would you say about the other sikh gurus who did not give up their lives? They were living saints and people visited them, loved them, and enjoyed their sangat.
" Mil sadh sangat bhaj keval naam " This happens when first of all a living sadh is present. This happened in sikhs when the gurus were alive, and people actually became enlightened in their sangat at that time.
But if there is only a sangat and a book, it is not sadh sangat. A group of unenlightened people sitting around a book, cannot be called a sadh sangat. Because sadh is not present there.
Sikhs worship a book, hindus worship idols, muslims worship a stone and i dont see much of a difference. Sikhs feel that their book is the ultimate god, hindus feel that their idols are the ultimate god, and the muslims feel that their stone is god. Not much of a difference. When the living saints are gone, every religion or cult becomes a stupid belief system. And every belief system claims that they have the ultimate truth.

Sikhs love to cling to a book, because it is comfortable and convenient for them.
A living guru is always a headache and a challenge for the ego. So they stay away from the living gurus. And sikhs beauutifully mold the meanings of the lines in the book, where the importance of a living guru is mentioned. They say that the words sant, braham gyani, or sadh, are for the god. Or they say that these are not the titles.
May be they had a talk with their dead gurus about this, and were told that these words are for god. Or they Made it by themselves to fit those lines with their own ideology.


Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

Allow me to jump in.

There you go with your unintelligent babble. I have shown you through your own posts that you are dishonest and a liar. You lack any kind of conviction. You hide behind your facades and veils and deny and lie about it.

You know the people in this forum you interact with are Sikhs but you are too insecure in your own skin to let us know what you believe in or what path you follow despite the fact that all of us have asked you about it. You seem frightened in your own skin.

As I said many times before that you deny and hide behind some false walls but thats all you have done so far. You lack bravura and guts to be a man.

We do not mind anyone who criticises Sikhi or Sikhs in this forum because we as Sikhs learn from other people's perspectives.

So show your manliness for a change and share your path with us and tell us how it is better than the path we follow and teach us.

Hiding behind dishonesty, lies and contradictions does not make a person a man but a coward no matter what path he claims to follow.

Why hide? Why expose this insecurity? It is impossible for a Gidhar to pretend to be a Lion no much how much he hides.:)

As I said before, good luck in your journey but be fair and honest and secure enough to share with us. Just criticising us and being dishonest shows what you have learnt from the spiritual path you have chosen. Not to be an honest person.

Does your living Sadhu know what he has turned you into?


Tejwant Singh
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sikhs feel that their book is the ultimate god, hindus feel that their idols are the ultimate god, and the muslims feel that their stone is god.

That's not true. The Gurbani is what we understand and apply in our lives. Nobody matha teks to rumalas, the book (without) the authentic bani or the stage. It is always to the Gurbani because this Gurbani (written instruction) leads us to the True Guru within.

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ
माझ महला ५ ॥
Mājẖ mėhlā 5.
Maajh, Fifth Mehl:

ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਨਾਹੀ
सभ किछु घर महि बाहरि नाही ॥
Sabẖ kicẖẖ gẖar mėh bāhar nāhī.
Everything is within the home of the self; there is nothing beyond.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਟੋਲੈ ਸੋ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਹੀ
बाहरि टोलै सो भरमि भुलाही ॥
Bāhar tolai so bẖaram bẖulāhī.
One who searches outside is deluded by doubt.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੋ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
गुर परसादी जिनी अंतरि पाइआ सो अंतरि बाहरि सुहेला जीउ ॥१॥
Gur parsādī jinī anṯar pā▫i▫ā so anṯar bāhar suhelā jī▫o. ||1||
By Guru's Grace, one who has found the Lord within is happy, inwardly and outwardly. ||1||

ਝਿਮਿ ਝਿਮਿ ਵਰਸੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰਾ
झिमि झिमि वरसै अम्रित धारा ॥
Jẖim jẖim varsai amriṯ ḏẖārā.
Slowly, gently, drop by drop, the stream of nectar trickles down within.

ਮਨੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ
मनु पीवै सुनि सबदु बीचारा ॥
Man pīvai sun sabaḏ bīcẖārā.
The mind drinks it in, hearing and reflecting on the Word of the Shabad.

ਅਨਦ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਕਰੇ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
अनद बिनोद करे दिन राती सदा सदा हरि केला जीउ ॥२॥
Anaḏ binoḏ kare ḏin rāṯī saḏā saḏā har kelā jī▫o. ||2||
It enjoys bliss and ecstasy day and night, and plays with the Lord forever and ever. ||2||

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੁੜਿਆ ਮਿਲਿਆ
जनम जनम का विछुड़िआ मिलिआ ॥
Janam janam kā vicẖẖuṛi▫ā mili▫ā.
I have now been united with the Lord after having been separated and cut off from Him for so many lifetimes;

ਸਾਧ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੂਕਾ ਹਰਿਆ
साध क्रिपा ते सूका हरिआ ॥
Sāḏẖ kirpā ṯe sūkā hari▫ā.
by the Grace of the Holy Saint, the dried-up branches have blossomed forth again in their greenery.

ਸੁਮਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਏ ਮੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
सुमति पाए नामु धिआए गुरमुखि होए मेला जीउ ॥३॥
Sumaṯ pā▫e nām ḏẖi▫ā▫e gurmukẖ ho▫e melā jī▫o. ||3||
I have obtained this sublime understanding, and I meditate on the Naam; as Gurmukh, I have met the Lord. ||3||

ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗੁ ਜਿਉ ਜਲਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ
जल तरंगु जिउ जलहि समाइआ ॥
Jal ṯarang ji▫o jalėh samā▫i▫ā.
As the waves of water merge again with the water,

ਤਿਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ
तिउ जोती संगि जोति मिलाइआ ॥
Ŧi▫o joṯī sang joṯ milā▫i▫ā.
so does my light merge again into the Light.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਟੇ ਕਿਵਾੜਾ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਹੋਈਐ ਜਉਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੧੯॥੨੬॥
कहु नानक भ्रम कटे किवाड़ा बहुड़ि न होईऐ जउला जीउ ॥४॥१९॥२६॥
Kaho Nānak bẖaram kate kivāṛā bahuṛ na ho▫ī▫ai ja▫ulā jī▫o. ||4||19||26||
Says Nanak, the veil of illusion has been cut away, and I shall not go out wandering any more. ||4||19||26||
 
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125
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ
माझ महला ५ ॥
Mājẖ mėhlā 5.
Maajh, Fifth Mehl:

ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਨਾਹੀ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
सभ किछु घर महि बाहरि नाही ॥
Sabẖ kicẖẖ gẖar mėh bāhar nāhī.
Everything is within the home of the self; there is nothing beyond.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਟੋਲੈ ਸੋ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਹੀ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
बाहरि टोलै सो भरमि भुलाही ॥
Bāhar tolai so bẖaram bẖulāhī.
One who searches outside is deluded by doubt.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੋ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
गुर परसादी जिनी अंतरि पाइआ सो अंतरि बाहरि सुहेला जीउ ॥१॥
Gur parsādī jinī anṯar pā▫i▫ā so anṯar bāhar suhelā jī▫o. ||1||
By Guru's Grace, one who has found the Lord within is happy, inwardly and outwardly. ||1||

ਝਿਮਿ ਝਿਮਿ ਵਰਸੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰਾ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
झिमि झिमि वरसै अम्रित धारा ॥
Jẖim jẖim varsai amriṯ ḏẖārā.
Slowly, gently, drop by drop, the stream of nectar trickles down within.

ਮਨੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
मनु पीवै सुनि सबदु बीचारा ॥
Man pīvai sun sabaḏ bīcẖārā.
The mind drinks it in, hearing and reflecting on the Word of the Shabad.

ਅਨਦ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਕਰੇ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
अनद बिनोद करे दिन राती सदा सदा हरि केला जीउ ॥२॥
Anaḏ binoḏ kare ḏin rāṯī saḏā saḏā har kelā jī▫o. ||2||
It enjoys bliss and ecstasy day and night, and plays with the Lord forever and ever. ||2||

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੁੜਿਆ ਮਿਲਿਆ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
जनम जनम का विछुड़िआ मिलिआ ॥
Janam janam kā vicẖẖuṛi▫ā mili▫ā.
I have now been united with the Lord after having been separated and cut off from Him for so many lifetimes;

ਸਾਧ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੂਕਾ ਹਰਿਆ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
साध क्रिपा ते सूका हरिआ ॥
Sāḏẖ kirpā ṯe sūkā hari▫ā.
by the Grace of the Holy Saint, the dried-up branches have blossomed forth again in their greenery.

ਸੁਮਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਏ ਮੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
सुमति पाए नामु धिआए गुरमुखि होए मेला जीउ ॥३॥
Sumaṯ pā▫e nām ḏẖi▫ā▫e gurmukẖ ho▫e melā jī▫o. ||3||
I have obtained this sublime understanding, and I meditate on the Naam; as Gurmukh, I have met the Lord. ||3||

ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗੁ ਜਿਉ ਜਲਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
जल तरंगु जिउ जलहि समाइआ ॥
Jal ṯarang ji▫o jalėh samā▫i▫ā.
As the waves of water merge again with the water,

ਤਿਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
तिउ जोती संगि जोति मिलाइआ ॥
Ŧi▫o joṯī sang joṯ milā▫i▫ā.
so does my light merge again into the Light.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਟੇ ਕਿਵਾੜਾ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਹੋਈਐ ਜਉਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੧੯॥੨੬॥http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
कहु नानक भ्रम कटे किवाड़ा बहुड़ि न होईऐ जउला जीउ ॥४॥१९॥२६॥
Kaho Nānak bẖaram kate kivāṛā bahuṛ na ho▫ī▫ai ja▫ulā jī▫o. ||4||19||26||
Says
Nanak, the veil of illusion has been cut away, and I shall not go out wandering any more. ||4||19||26||http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਝ

Naamjap ji
It is beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
Thank you so much, for your post.
 
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125
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

vaheguruseekr ji

We do not mind anyone who criticises Sikhi or Sikhs in this forum because we as Sikhs learn from other people's perspectives.

The words "babble", "unintelligent", "liar", "dishonest", "unmanly", "giddar" etc etc, used by you on me and my posts, does not really fit with what you are claiming in the above statement. You seem to be so much disturbed, that you can hardly control yourself. And that is the reason of these harsh words in your posts again and again.

You have already declared me a liar, dishonest, and unintelligent, so why would you believe me, if i tell you my path?
You wont believe a liar, would you?

Anyway LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY PATH.

i DONT HAVE ANY path.
Now would you believe me?
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu Ji,

You mentioned,

When the living saints are gone, every religion or cult becomes a stupid belief system.

and also,

Naamjap ji
It is beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
Thank you so much, for your post.

So tell me what's so stupid about our beliefs?
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

SPN Forum Rules

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Guidelines for Comparative Studies:

Whilst SPN encourages positive interfaith dialogue and exercises in comparative religion, we do not accept direct or indirect attacks on the individuality of Sikhism. Any posts deemed to be doing so will be removed from the forum without notice.

The Guru Granth Sahib is the ultimate authority of the Sikhs. Any abuse or disrespect towards it in any form – directly or implied, will not be tolerated. Ridicule of the Sikh Religion, Sikh Scriptures, 5Ks or of the Khalsa will not be allowed and removed from forums without notice.

Comparative religious discussions can be educational, but ridiculing other faiths or excessive criticism of their beliefs is not constructive and it is not allowed on SPN. We need to be tolerant of our differences and accept people for what they are instead of being critical of their beliefs. All allegations must be backed up by verifiable references from neutral sources.

Posts looking for converts to Deras, Sects, other faiths, religions, etc; posts that preach their philosophies, promote their URLs etc; and posts that push one-sided political agendas will be edited or deleted. Messages affecting Sikhs in religious, cultural or other matters are welcome. Forum Leaders reserve the right to disallow other types of messages. Do not propagate the views or arguments of any non-member or suspended member. Repeated forwarding of controversial views on the same subject will be viewed as a serious breach of SPN Guidelines.

 

Tejwant Singh

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

vaheguruseekr ji



The words "babble", "unintelligent", "liar", "dishonest", "unmanly", "giddar" etc etc, used by you on me and my posts, does not really fit with what you are claiming in the above statement. You seem to be so much disturbed, that you can hardly control yourself. And that is the reason of these harsh words in your posts again and again.

You have already declared me a liar, dishonest, and unintelligent, so why would you believe me, if i tell you my path?
You wont believe a liar, would you?

Anyway LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY PATH.

i DONT HAVE ANY path.
Now would you believe me?

Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

Those are the things you showed in your posts.. Please check them for yourself. The latest one about your dishonesty that you agreed with was when you compared Rajneesh with Guru Nanak and you said in your post that you were dishonest. So please do not blame me for all those nouns. They were from your own posts. I did not declare anything nor did I accuse you of anything. You did that yourself quite gallantly.

You wont believe a liar, would you?

Here once again you shamelessly claim to know more about others than about yourself. We Sikhs give the benefit of the doubt as we have done it with you for so long. When you lied you were told you did because it was vivid in your posts.

Once you tell us that you are telling the truth and it makes sense then we have no reasons not to believe in you.

Anyway LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY PATH.

i DONT HAVE ANY path.
Now would you believe me?

Well, no I do not believe you because in all your posts you talk about your path. You have never named it though. Re- read your posts and check it for yourself. If you had no path then you would not criticise the Path of Sikhi with your living Gurus that you admire the most against the dead Gurus of Sikhi.

As I said before, when you start speaking the truth, you will be able to liberate yourself and you do not have to hide behind any facades which you did with the above statements.

We all have paths otherwise we have no where to go.:)

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 
Mar 1, 2009
125
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

naamjap ji

So tell me what's so stupid about our beliefs?

The traditions are stupid, when they say "deh-dharis"[human beings] can never be a guru, when all the ten sikh gurus were human beings. And moreover the ten gurus never said, what the traditions are claiming.
A human being cannot be a guru, is a traditional belief, it originates from your traditions, and traditions are always useless. As a traditional belief is nothing but something molded, remolded, and restructured by hundreds of unenlightened people, before it reaches your ear. And believing in a tradition and molding gurbani according to the tradition is utterly stupid.

But gurbani itself is absolutely beautiful beautiful beautiful and beautiful.
And remember gurbani is not traditional, it is something above traditions, something above belief systems, because it is the poetry of the ones who were above all traditions and beliefs.

I never disrespect gurbani, but i do criticise your tradition, because your tradition has nothing to do with gurbani, still many try to mold gurbani according to the tradition.
And i criticise them too.
 

kds1980

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The traditions are stupid, when they say "deh-dharis"[human beings] can never be a guru, when all the ten Sikh Gurus were human beings. And moreover the ten gurus never said, what the traditions are claiming.
A human being cannot be a guru, is a traditional belief, it originates from your traditions, and traditions are always useless. As a traditional belief is nothing but something molded, remolded, and restructured by hundreds of unenlightened people, before it reaches your ear. And believing in a tradition and molding gurbani according to the tradition is utterly stupid.

O.K Then PLease tell us To whom Gurgaddi was given In 1708?
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Guru Nanak did not say he was the guru - prove it anywhere in the scriptures. In fact Guru is always within in the spiritual realms. Guru is always permanent, not changing forms, not human.

ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਨੀਤ ਨਵਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਦਾਤਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ (Ang 660)

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਆਰਾਧਣਾ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਜਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ (Ang 517)

ਸੋ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਆਖੀਐ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ (Ang 28)
 
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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

naam jap ji

http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/

Why would gurunanak call himself a guru? There is no point to call oneself a guru.
If someone claims that he is a guru, then definitely he is not worthy of being called a guru. A guru will never declare himself a guru. So gurunanak never did this.

But his disciples did call him the guru. And it comes in a number of places in gurbani.
Even the enlightened disciples called him the guru.

No doubt the guru is within, but the one who tells us the techinque to find the inner guru is also a guru. Infact when you find your inner guru, your respect and love for the outer guru will increase manyfolds. Because without the help of the outer guru you could have never found your inner guru. And once you find your inner guru, you will be surprised, that the outer and the inner gurus are actually one. There is no difference between the outer and the inner guru. But it happens only when you find the inner guru.
Actually we havent find the inner as yet, and we are already discarding the outer guru.
We are ignoring the outer guru, who could have helped us to find the inner guru.
We wont reach anywhere with this attitude.
 

Tejwant Singh

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re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

The traditions are stupid, when they say "deh-dharis"[human beings] can never be a guru, when all the ten sikh gurus were human beings. And moreover the ten gurus never said, what the traditions are claiming.

Can you please define traditions in your own viewpoint with examples because your claim sounds a bit confusing?

Which deh dhari Gurus are you talking about whom you consider Gurus as you have mentioned about these deh dhari Gurus in almost all your posts? Please tell us what they teach so we can learn from that? As you know Sikh means a learner. So do not hesitate to share their names, their works and their teachings with us.


A human being cannot be a guru, is a traditional belief, it originates from your traditions, and traditions are always useless. As a traditional belief is nothing but something molded, remolded, and restructured by hundreds of unenlightened people, before it reaches your ear. And believing in a tradition and molding gurbani according to the tradition is utterly stupid.

Once again you have repeated the same things that you have done in many of your posts. So tell us which human beings you consider as your Gurus? Why feel so reluctant about the truth?

Can you define what you mean by traditional belief and the Dhe Dhari Gurus that you seem to cling to, are they without any traditions? Please elaborate it.



But gurbani itself is absolutely beautiful beautiful beautiful and beautiful.
And remember gurbani is not traditional, it is something above traditions, something above belief systems, because it is the poetry of the ones who were above all traditions and beliefs.

Yes, I agree. Gurbani is beautiful. It is also our Guide and our Guru. It teaches us to build the framework from the within so we are capable of breeding goodness within and share with others.

Once again you have used the word tradition without explaining what you really mean by that.

What do you mean by belief systems?

Sikhi is a way of life not a belief system because beliefs can change anytime. Your claim seems a bit confusing and contradictory. Please clarify that.

I never disrespect gurbani, but i do criticise your tradition, because your tradition has nothing to do with gurbani, still many try to mold gurbani according to the tradition.
And i criticise them too.

Once again you are contradicting yourself. You mean you respect the teacher, which is Gurbani but disrespect the student who is learning from the teacher?

Sadhu ji,

Clarity creates honesty. I know you have mentioned in your posts that you are self-contradictory and dishonest. So how can you seek TRUTH with this frame of mind and through which deh Gurur?

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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