Shariah & Implications For Sikhs?

[Rory]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xtremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html

With increasing Moslem populations in Western countries, it does seem that at some point within the next few centuries, Moslems will demand Shariah in countries where they have high or majority populations.

This is quite a dim prospect to me, what are your views on Shariah & how do you think it will affect Sikhs if Shariah was to be introduced in the UK & US?
Do you think Shariah will prevail in Western countries?

I reckon there will have to be some major change if countries such as England want to stop Moslems from overwhelming & establishing Shariah.

 

[Auzer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xtremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html

With increasing Moslem populations in Western countries, it does seem that at some point within the next few centuries, Moslems will demand Shariah in countries where they have high or majority populations.

This is quite a dim prospect to me, what are your views on Shariah & how do you think it will affect Sikhs if Shariah was to be introduced in the UK & US?
Do you think Shariah will prevail in Western countries?

I reckon there will have to be some major change if countries such as England want to stop Moslems from overwhelming & establishing Shariah.

Oh no ..not again!

This Anjem Chaudry guy is an idiot. Muslims and non-Muslims in British makes joke about him. He is not even significant..How much 'following' he has got? Yup..like 100 at max? lol

There will be NO 'Muslim-Majority' in Europe ....

Europe is going to be 'Atheist Majority' , if anything other than 'Christian Majority'.

It is sad that media portrays this loon as 'Muslim leader' ..really? Muslim Community of Europe is not represented by such idiots.

European Muslims are represented by people like Tariq Ramadan , Majid Nawaz , Kistiane Backer , Hamza Tzortiz , Adnan Rashid , Nabila Ramdani , Mehdi Hassan , Abdullah Al Andulusi etc etc etc

In the above mentioned list , you have ALL spectrum of Muslim views... From conservative Islamic to liberal ... But these are 'European Muslims' -- not lunactics like Anjem Chaudry ...

There is simple fact of civilizations :

Islamic Shari'a is not for Europe .......

Western Democracy is not for China .....

Russian Communism is not for United States....

So on and so forth. Every culture has it own way of governing itself...

There would be NO Shari'a in Europe....
Chill...

 

[Rory]

Thanks for the reply Auzerji.

I've tried to learn a lot about Islam but I might still be ignorant, so sorry in advance if I'm mistaken.
Doesn't Qur'an teach that before the end of the world, all nations will have to come under Shariah? If so, why, as a Muslim, do you not believe Shariah is supposed to come to Europe?

 

[Auzer]

Thanks for the reply Auzerji.

I've tried to learn a lot about Islam but I might still be ignorant, so sorry in advance if I'm mistaken.
Doesn't Qur'an teach that before the end of the world, all nations will have to come under Shariah? If so, why, as a Muslim, do you not believe Shariah is supposed to come to Europe?

No problem! It is good to ask Muslims regarding Islam

Regarding your question---Nopes. Qur'an , as far as I remember , doesn't even mention any such thing (Again , I might be forgetting but as far as I remember , there is no such thing in Qur'an) ... However , there is a hadith of Prophet Muhammad which says something like Islam will go East and West...Islam will enter in every house.. Something of that sort..

Scholars say that here , Prophet is saying that Islam will be embraced by the whole world one day....

It doesn't say anything regarding "Shari'a Law" ... It doesn't say that 'Shari'a Law' will be established over the whole world.

Peace!

 

[Ishna]

Auzer ji, is Shari'a Law a system based on information in the Koran and other sources, but not actually explicitly written in the Koran?

Thanks

 

[Auzer]

Auzer ji, is Shari'a Law a system based on information in the Koran and other sources, but not actually explicitly written in the Koran?

Thanks

Yes , majority of 'Shari'a Law' , specially the 'state-level Shari'a laws' , are suppose to be based upon Qur'an and Hadiths etc --They are not all written in Qur'an explicitly.

Personal Shari'a Laws like no drinking , no pork , no pre-marial sex etc etc are relatively explicit and can be found in Qur'an/Hadiths directly.

Shari'a Law is not a straight forward issue. It is a very complex issue..just like all other legal codes of humans.... You need almost 5 to 6 years of study in classical Islamic legal code in order to be an 'expert' on Shari'a matters...

But here in America , people who haven't even read Qur'an are invited to news channels as 'Experts in Shari'a Law" lol

... Basically , yes , you are right! Shari'a is not explicitly stated in Qur'an or Hadith..some is ..but not all..

icecreammunda

 

[Rory]

Thanks for the replies, Auzerji

This might be going off topic but out of interest, what brought you to SPN to begin with?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Auzer Ji actively dispels dis-information, mis-information, slanted UN-information !! on SPN thats been posted by "muslims"/or muslims pretending to be sikhs, etc etc... He always manages to give the correct facts.... I like THAT.
SIKHS Need NOT worry about Islam/shariah law etc taking over the world..we will cross that bridge when its "built" ha ha..after all Sikhism was BORN in MUGHAL INDIA...when the Mughal Muslims were the most powerful empire !!! and what happened is history...:whatzpointsing:

 

[Auzer]

Thanks for the replies, Auzerji

This might be going off topic but out of interest, what brought you to SPN to begin with?

Well I have read much about religions... I even had a pocket size bible ... but mainly , my study was 'confined' to Islam and Christianity , since I used to refer them as "major religions" ...

But then , I came in contact with Sikhs here in U.S! I have many good Sikh friends...This made me interested in Sikhism and I learned about Sikhism from them...and they learned about Islam from me...

Hence my interest developed in Sikhism and I searched for Sikh forums on the internet...I joined one Sikh forum (not this one)...there , I saw some members posting the same old anti-Islamic rhetoric and when I tried to clear their mis-conceptions...I was labelled as "Muslim propagating his religion" and hence I was restricted on that forum... So I searched again and landed in this forum..and I'm still here 0
One little story though... One time , my Sikh friend asked me (in a serious tone) :

" Hey Auzer , so you will also do 4 marriages? " I was like "Uhhh why do you think that?" ...he was like "Don't you Muslims have to marry four women atleast" .. I was like "ahhhh I wish!" lol ...

 

[Ruqa]

" Hey Auzer , so you will also do 4 marriages? " I was like "Uhhh why do you think that?" ...he was like "Don't you Muslims have to marry four women atleast" .. I was like "ahhhh I wish!" lol ...

Bro! Seems to me that you're wishing alot of pain on yourself! But if being hen-pecked is your thing why don't you take yourself over to the Masjid and stand outside after salat with a sign saying 'WIVES WANTED! PHONE: ...' I heard something like that worked for someone once... I also heard some father stood outside yelling my daughter is a ripe apple waiting to be picked... True story, thats how the girl got her hubby, no joke! Lol

 

[Rory]

Auzerji, there are a lot of anti-Islamic websites (I read websites of all perspectives, I see it only fair to read arguments from the contestants of each religion) who make a case that Moslems clearing up misconceptions is equal to taqayya. Now obviously I amn't saying I believe this, but it probably explains a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment among Sikhs and other religions.

 

[Searching]

Auzerji, there are a lot of anti-Islamic websites (I read websites of all perspectives, I see it only fair to read arguments from the contestants of each religion) who make a case that Moslems clearing up misconceptions is equal to taqayya. Now obviously I amn't saying I believe this, but it probably explains a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment among Sikhs and other religions.

I have seen a youtube video of very famous Muslim scholar, Zakir Naik doing just that.
There is a talk show in which he is asked why should Muslims be allowed to propagate their religion in other countries when they do not allow other people to propagate their religion in Muslim countries.
To this Mr ZN said that Islam is the only correct religion and how can we allow a wrong religion be taught in our country ?

Then in another video in UK a person asks this same question to Dr. Naik and he replies I cannot answer this. Each country has its own law and you have to check with them.

If a famous scholar like him hides the truth like this then either he is liar or he is practicing taqqya.

 

[Searching]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHRaNE2XXVk&feature=related

 

[Rory]

I can't watch the video at the moment
But I know Zakir Naik is refuted even by many Islamic scholars who say he is a liar and a showman.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Auzerji, there are a lot of anti-Islamic websites (I read websites of all perspectives, I see it only fair to read arguments from the contestants of each religion) who make a case that Moslems clearing up misconceptions is equal to taqayya. Now obviously I amn't saying I believe this, but it probably explains a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment among Sikhs and other religions.

Contestants..?? taqyya..ANTI-ISLAMIC sentiment IN SIKHS..blah blah blah..??? it seems like the fake and Sham WRESTLING CONTESTS shown on TV..lots of hoo ha throwing against the ropes, banging etc but all arranged for entertainment..imho RELIGION is much more personal and deeper than that....obvioulsy ???? or is it just like that WWW fake banging of bodies ?? SPN is not the place for such..here its religious for its own sake..not entertianment...gingerteakaur

 

[Auzer]

Bro! Seems to me that you're wishing alot of pain on yourself! But if being hen-pecked is your thing why don't you take yourself over to the Masjid and stand outside after salat with a sign saying 'WIVES WANTED! PHONE: ...' I heard something like that worked for someone once... I also heard some father stood outside yelling my daughter is a ripe apple waiting to be picked... True story, thats how the girl got her hubby, no joke! Lol

haha wth? lol

Well, in the Western communities , marriage (specially of girls) becomes a serious issue...

You have a smaller pool to pick your life-partner from... gingerteakaur

 

[Auzer]

Auzerji, there are a lot of anti-Islamic websites (I read websites of all perspectives, I see it only fair to read arguments from the contestants of each religion) who make a case that Moslems clearing up misconceptions is equal to taqayya. Now obviously I amn't saying I believe this, but it probably explains a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment among Sikhs and other religions.

Oh yeah! I know all such sites.... One of my Muslim friend has downloaded EVERY major anti-Islamic website in his PC... He refute the points of anti-Islamic loons against Islam... You won't know but we Muslims have our own 'favorite' anti-Islamic sites...and we'll give reasons why we like this particular anti-Islamic site..like this site is organized..this site has great articles against Qur'an..this site is fun to be on etc etc.. Whereas people on those sites think that they are doing some great 'Jihad' that will lead to downfall of Islam lol

On a good note though : These abundant anti-Islamic websites have caused Islamic Apologetics to rise , Mashallah..

Anyways , coming to the topic of Taqayyah ... most Muslims don't even know what this word mean.... I came to know of this word when some Christian poster accused me of 'doing taqqayah' about 2 years ago...I was like "What is this?" ...then I googled the word and found the meaning of it...

Jews were accused of same in the Nazi Germany. When Jews tried to explain themselves , Nazis told people "The Jew is commanded to lie in his faith. How can you believe anything coming from the Jew?" ...This is a classical fear-mongering technique that effects people's psychology..People would think "no no , Muslims aren't lying..there is no taqqiyah....but..uhhhhhh what if this is true?" This is a classical propaganda tactic... In psychology classes , you will read about it ...

In the Sunni Jurisdiction (90% of Islam) the word taqqiya doesn't even exist.. It exists in "Shi'a" jurisdiction and it means to 'hide your faith under the threat of persecution' ..Like If any Hitler rises up again and start killing Muslims (like he did to Jews) and his soldiers are coming home to home and asking "Are you Muslim" and if the answer is yes then the male of the house is killed,women/daughters are raped or taken away etc etc..Then ONLY in such situations ..It is allowed to hide your faith by 'lying' that you are not a Muslim. And I am pretty much O.K with it...ANYONE will agree that 'lying' in such condition is not morally wrong.

Anti-Islam loons will argue "Muslims lie to further their faith" ..Well lets try that with simple logic : Suppose I'm a liar doing Taqqiyah...I tell you..Islam is this and that..great..amazing..peaceful..etc...and you convert! Now after you have 'converted' , you will start practicing Islam, right? And you will come to know that "Oh no , all that I was told was BS..Actual Islam demands me to do this this this bad stuff" ..Would you even remain a Muslim? Does this even make any sense? ... smh ..

 

[Auzer]

I have seen a youtube video of very famous Muslim scholar, Zakir Naik doing just that.
There is a talk show in which he is asked why should Muslims be allowed to propagate their religion in other countries when they do not allow other people to propagate their religion in Muslim countries.
To this Mr ZN said that Islam is the only correct religion and how can we allow a wrong religion be taught in our country ?

Then in another video in UK a person asks this same question to Dr. Naik and he replies I cannot answer this. Each country has its own law and you have to check with them.

If a famous scholar like him hides the truth like this then either he is liar or he is practicing taqqya.

First thing : Zakir Naik is NOT a scholar. He is a 'debater' ..and that too..a bad one. In Islamic Apologetic community today , there are way , way more better and well-read debaters than Naik. Do you know about Shabbir Ally? Bassam Zwadi? Dr Jamal Badawi? All of them are way bigger names than Naik for people who follow inter-religious dialogue..But for Indian and Pakistani Muslims , who don't even know what is 'apologetics' mean , Naik is a biggg name offcourse...So Naik is not a scholar. Even the guy who inspired Naik, "Sheikh Ahmed Deedat" , used to say that don't ask questions about 'Fiqh' ..he is no scholar of Islam..but just a debater...

Secondly , I don't think Naik is lying or doing taqqiyah etc.. I just think that Dr Zakir Naik's opinion has evolved and become more 'mature' ...The video where Naik is answering the Cambridge student is relatively recent..but the video in which Naik is answering the call is from years ago...So it is quite clear that Naik opinion on the issue has evolved. This happens all the time..My opinion of certain Islamic aspects was very different and now it is very different. Your world view expands as you read and experience more..but it doesn't mean that I'm practicing 'taqqiyah' now cuz now I don't believe what I used to believe..etc. ..:grinningkaur:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Oh yeah! I know all such sites.... One of my Muslim friend has downloaded EVERY major anti-Islamic website in his PC... He refute the points of anti-Islamic loons against Islam... You won't know but we Muslims have our own 'favorite' anti-Islamic sites...and we'll give reasons why we like this particular anti-Islamic site..like this site is organized..this site has great articles against Qur'an..this site is fun to be on etc etc.. Whereas people on those sites think that they are doing some great 'Jihad' that will lead to downfall of Islam lol

On a good note though : These abundant anti-Islamic websites have caused Islamic Apologetics to rise , Mashallah..

Anyways , coming to the topic of Taqayyah ... most Muslims don't even know what this word mean.... I came to know of this word when some Christian poster accused me of 'doing taqqayah' about 2 years ago...I was like "What is this?" ...then I googled the word and found the meaning of it...

Jews were accused of same in the Nazi Germany. When Jews tried to explain themselves , Nazis told people "The Jew is commanded to lie in his faith. How can you believe anything coming from the Jew?" ...This is a classical fear-mongering technique that effects people's psychology..People would think "no no , Muslims aren't lying..there is no taqqiyah....but..uhhhhhh what if this is true?" This is a classical propaganda tactic... In psychology classes , you will read about it ...

In the Sunni Jurisdiction (90% of Islam) the word taqqiya doesn't even exist.. It exists in "Shi'a" jurisdiction and it means to 'hide your faith under the threat of persecution' ..Like If any Hitler rises up again and start killing Muslims (like he did to Jews) and his soldiers are coming home to home and asking "Are you Muslim" and if the answer is yes then the male of the house is killed,women/daughters are raped or taken away etc etc..Then ONLY in such situations ..It is allowed to hide your faith by 'lying' that you are not a Muslim. And I am pretty much O.K with it...ANYONE will agree that 'lying' in such condition is not morally wrong.

Anti-Islam loons will argue "Muslims lie to further their faith" ..Well lets try that with simple logic : Suppose I'm a liar doing Taqqiyah...I tell you..Islam is this and that..great..amazing..peaceful..etc...and you convert! Now after you have 'converted' , you will start practicing Islam, right? And you will come to know that "Oh no , all that I was told was BS..Actual Islam demands me to do this this this bad stuff" ..Would you even remain a Muslim? Does this even make any sense? ... smh ..

NOT applicable to SIKH....It was precisely to STOP such a "lie" even unintentionally that the Khalsa was Commanded to wear the 5 K ..KESH, DASTAAR, KIRPAN Kachhera Karra so that a SINGH would be VISIBLE in a crowd of Hundreds of thousands... This is why SIKHS in dastaars STAND OUT even at the expense of being MISTAKEN for Al Qaeda/Muslim Terrorists/suicide bombers rabble rousers etc etc and GETTING KILLED that SIKHS REFUSE to do away with these ID.... Many SIKHS have been killed by extremists who mistaken ID them as Muslim terrorists..and SIKHS were under a lot of pressure to TELL THE WORLD THAT WE ARE NOT MUSLIMS..but we have decided to AVOID that line of reasoning and instead concentrate on telling the world that WE ARE SIKHS...that is DRAW a LONGER LINE instead of trying to ERASE somebody else line to make our LINE appear longer than his...

I read a story of a Catholic Nun who was aboard a plane wearing her HABIT...some ignorant air hostess mistook her for a MUSLIM simply because the NUN didnt speak English...and the NUN was FORCED to DISEMBARK....a few seats behin the NUN was a REAL MUSLIM..couple and they were heard LAUGHING..they thought it was so funny to see a catholic Nun being forced OFF a plane for mistaken for a Muslim while the REAL MUSLIM was IGNORED !! IF a KHALSA SIKH had been in that situation...there would be no such ID crisis..becasue He would ahev Stood up and declared..I AM SIKH...that NUN is NOT a SIKH...if you have a problem..come see me...

You see The SECOND MOST important attribute of The Creator in SIKHISM..is SATNAAM - ETERNAL TRUTH...so a Sikh never lies.even at pain of DEATH. Many HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of Sikh martyrs at the hands of the Mughals in india are testimony to Keeping the FAITH...a SIKH will die rather than HIDE his FAITH.

 

[Ishna]

so that a SINGH would be VISIBLE in a crowd of Hundreds of thousands

And the Kaurs, or not really?