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Sikh Missionary "GHAGHA" Excommunicated !

Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

There have been some symbolism like four faces of Brahma or Brahma entering stem of lotus in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,thye may not be true but are used by Gurus to explain the matter.

so taksal used the same method.Rather just saying all Taksal put thier is ideioticity is more mkaing our faith look like all luthraianinas.

Tyhere are mnay things which are not part of Baba Gurbachan Suingh but his followers like He was not aganst eating meat but but His followers rather made it must as amrit cermony that meat uis kurehit.

Das would just like say somethuing about Mundavini and Raagmala thing.das here actualt posted a file in which content of Madhanal Kamkandala by Alam ,the Sufi9if at all he existed) was givne whicn is 80% unlike our Raagmala.And oldest version of this is also in Kankroli maniscript which is contemporary to Tenth Master.While Raagmala is there in Kartarpuri Beerh.

Saying Gyani Gurdit Singh better then Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Ok can not be treated as perfect.Then who can he say that there is no extra terrestrail thing like UFO do not exsists.

Gurbani talks about life forms on which since is doing rreserach.That could some one from outspace or orgainsim which we could not ussaly precive say Ghosts,Demoans etc.

When scince will prve that,then same Baba Gurbachan Singh will be champioan.

There is not need to rigidy fy articificial imdeogy be it on eith the the side of too much logic,which become absurd or on the other siede too such superstition,which lead to failry tail.


Das is acting more like devils advoacted,if Taksal is beheld as devil over here.Das anyway is emprrssed by good work done by Akashdeep Singh Ji,.
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
44
INDIA
akashdeep ji thanks for giving us valuable information.

one of the another thing that taksal is propagating is that killing a black cow is major sin
| Damdami Taksal |
“The following are all major sins:
a) Killing a Brahmgyani,
b) Killing a black cow
c) Killing or selling your daughter,
d) Eating from a person who has no moral discipline. Anyone who commits any of these has committed thousands of sins and this egotistical individual will be reprimanded thousands of times."
(SGGSJ Ang 1413)

so does that mean our guru's were differentiationg animals on basis of their colour?
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
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LionChild,

I am trying to understand your query.
1. Are you asking me to put some more points here which are mentioned by Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga and you think those are "actually good"? or
2. Are you telling me that Taksal has written good things and you are asking me to put those things here as well?

If question is 1, my answer:
I have quickly converted some points to English from the original Punjabi writing overnight, sitting with a headache and tension of next days work. As yours truly, mentioned in the previous post, I will improve these and add more as I am able to steel more time from the hectic schedule.

If question is 2, my short answer is:
If I give you 30 laddos (sweets) and then give you 1 poison pill, what will count? In this advanced world, plots against communities are not visible without deep analysis. These type of blasphamous writings ( as pointed in the Taksal writings by Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga) are disastrous for Sikh philosophy and belief. I recommend you to read the book "Soft Target" by Brian McAndrew (a Canadian Journalist ) to know how Sikh community in Canada was the target of whole Indian spy agency and they kept fooling not only Sikhs in Canada but also the Canadian police and agency for years.

Moreover, I believe that to kill the community and religion one has to just kill their separate identity, pride and history. Kill the history, the religion will die on its own. Budhism started in India and has such great numbers of followers outsite India, but why/how was it wiped out from India? Where is Jainism gone? Think on these things my friend. If we don't raise own conscious and do not recognize these plots ( or mistakes, whatever one calls them) our result will be the same as Budhism and Jainism.

I am in a kind of rush at the present. Please feel free to email me with more questions and I will try to provide more information.

Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep
 
Jul 13, 2004
2,364
382
52
Canada
Akashdeep's translations are pretty close to the original articles in Punjabi, which are posted on sikhmarg.com
Anyone knowing Punjabi should read this articles there... very informative and direct language.

Regards.
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
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There are chances that a translated text often gets unwantedly/unknowingly adulterated with a translators own interpretations.

I agree with Arvind that original Punjabi writing makes a better reading than the translation even if I have tried my best to stay close to the original text. There is always a chance of something getting misinterpretted or getting messed up while translating from one language to the other. Often the original emotions of the writer are very difficult to translate from one language to the other. This happens partly due to a translators own lack of mapping skills to map the right words and emotions from one language to the other and partly due the the inherent limitations of words in the language to which the translation is directed to.

To summarize, who knows Punjabi should read the original Punjabi articles only.Who don't know to read/write Punjabi should learn it. My translations are for the unmotivated/lazy and for those who are not Sikh and want to know about Sikhism and do not have enough time and resources to learn Punjabi.

Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

I am not sure if Inder Singh Ghagga is excommunicated because he criticized a book written by "Srimaan - Panth Ratan -Vidya Martand - Sant - Giani - Gurbachan Singh Ji."

I feel being a true Sikh and becoming pure (Khalsa) one gets rid of hate too. I am surprised why topics like "Sada BeRa Eao Garkeya" and criticizing other religions including his own are very important in his life. Is he an expert understanding the negativity of religions and sparkling it? Is this the way to recognize true value of human life?

Those who want to praise him should better mention his thankfulness to God for his spiritual experiences if he has any.


Balbir Singh
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Re: S. Inder Singh Ji Ghagga called to Akal Takhat

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

I am not sure if Inder Singh Ghagga is excommunicated because he criticized a book written by "Srimaan - Panth Ratan -Vidya Martand - Sant - Giani - Gurbachan Singh Ji."

I feel being a true Sikh and becoming pure (Khalsa) one gets rid of hate too. I am surprised why topics like "Sada BeRa Eao Garkeya" and criticizing other religions including his own are very important in his life. Is he an expert understanding the negativity of religions and sparkling it? Is this the way to recognize true value of human life?

Those who want to praise him should better mention his thankfulness to God for his spiritual experiences if he has any.


Balbir Singh
 
May 16, 2005
341
11
38
Vernon, BC Canada
There are chances that a translated text often gets unwantedly/unknowingly adulterated with a translators own interpretations.

I agree with Arvind that original Punjabi writing makes a better reading than the translation even if I have tried my best to stay close to the original text. There is always a chance of something getting misinterpretted or getting messed up while translating from one language to the other. Often the original emotions of the writer are very difficult to translate from one language to the other. This happens partly due to a translators own lack of mapping skills to map the right words and emotions from one language to the other and partly due the the inherent limitations of words in the language to which the translation is directed to.

To summarize, who knows Punjabi should read the original Punjabi articles only.Who don't know to read/write Punjabi should learn it. My translations are for the unmotivated/lazy and for those who are not Sikh and want to know about Sikhism and do not have enough time and resources to learn Punjabi.

Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep

Just to reflect on this quote:
What needs to be done is use the available "emotions" in another text or language to be used to describe certain things that can't be translated easily. People often think that gurmakhi is the only "true" script that needs to be used for the SGGS or other texts, be be aware, there are much older and more complex scripts in the world that offer more in depth and emotions to the reader.

While in translation, you are right that the translation will never be the same thing in terms of sound, however, it can be the same in terms of meaning, it does take effort especially for English since its a very hard script to translate into (which is why words like khalsa, waheguru should just stick). with that said, more older and smoother scripts like Chinese, Hebrew, and Sanskrit should be relatively easy to translate into, since it's been proven that older languages are not as "mixed and evolved" as new ones like English.

It is not economical and efficient to have millions of people learn a new language just to understand one message, then to have one message translated into several languages for millions of people to read.

-LC
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Re: S. Inder Singh Ji Ghagga called to Akal Takhat

Gurfateh

Boat of some missioanry idealogy is sinking due to fear and haterd.That does not means that actualy bera(boat) of Panth is Grakiya(sunk).
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
10
Khalsa Ji,

Sat Shri Akaal!

Just finished the translation of Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga's article on Sant Maskeen.


Was Giani Sant Singh Maskeen "Vidya Maartand" and "Brahm Giani"?

(Author: Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga, translated from
original Punjabi text by Akashdeep Singh Aulakh)




Vocabulary: -
Vidya Martand = Sun of Knowledge
Brahm Giani = He who knows the truth of the universe, he is the creator of the universe, he is formless, yet he is present in every form on this earth. (Shri Sukhmani Sahib)
Gurmat = the ideology/intelligence given by Sikh spiritual gurus, the Sikh faith.
Bhog = conclusion ceremony after Paath is complete.
Paath = the act of reading and understanding the Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib.



If you keep Maskeen ji's lecture audios on one side and read Osho's (Rajneesh's) books first, you will feel it yourself that Giani Maskeen Ji exactly repeated Osho's words and scarcely talked about Sikh faith.

The management of one gurudwara in England imposed a restriction on Maskeen ji for his lectures in that gurudwara that he should talk only about Gurbani and Gurmat, and not Brahamanical fables and stories during his lecture in that Gurudwara. Maskeen Ji replied, "If you want me to talk only about Gurmat (the knowledge/instruction from the Sikh gurus) then first stop recording all the video films, I cannot talk just about Gurmat while being recorded". By getting recorded talking just about Gurmat, he did not want to disappoint his followers who adhere to Hinduism.

Against Gurmat, he often makes this claim that fairies come to listen to his lectures and are visible to Maskeen Ji only.

He is already considered to be a millionaire preacher, what good for Gurmat has been done by presenting his family with tens and tens of lakhs of rupees?

At the time of bhog, he was being promoted as "Brahm Giani" with the help of banners put on height. On the other hand, Gurbani only calls "Akaal Purakh" as Brahm Giani and mentions that Brahm Giani never dies.

He was a big fan of mythological gods, the carnal-lust idols of Khajuraho and the nudity ridden stories from the Dasam Granth and kept using Gurbani wrongly to prove the carnal-lust instigating stories that he used to tell.

Maskeen ji has written a book on Gurudwara Management and has distributed this book free of cost. In that book he mentions that the present Gurudwara Management is useless , and the solution that he mentions in the book is that the Gurudwara Management should be given back to "Nirmaliye". Maskeen ji got education from a "Nirmaliya" teacher and he himself is a follower of "Nirmaliya" sect and is a disciple of Baba Shri Chand. These Nirmalye were the people who spread the "Brahmani" beliefs in the Gurudwaras in the past. He talked about people but has never talked about Paanth (Sikh Paanth).

I would have never written this article, if I did not get chance to see the 7 hours of live telecast of Sant Maskeen ji's last rituals and tribute ceremonies on ETC TV channel. It is not possible for one to knowingly gulp a fly in the milk, in the tribute ceremony the following incomplete line from Gurbani was written in bold words in front of Guru Granth Sahib ji -

"Brahm Gyani sad jeeve nahi marta"

Watching and reading this shocked my mind and heart. This big blunder? The person who all his life kept speaking on the stages meant for preaching Gurmat, who earned his living by supposedly preaching Gurmat could not teach the essence of Gurbani to his family and his disciple and the likes of Ranjeet Singh Gohar who were managing these ceremonies?. The incomplete line mentioned above has been picked up from 8th ashtpadi of Shri Sukhmani Sahib and has been used by these people in a way to emphasize that Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen was "Brahm Giani" and he has not died but is alive because being a "Brahm Giani" he cannot die. Now kindly pay attention to the 8th ashtpadi from where the incomplete line mentioned above has been picked, and note who has been called "Brahm Giani" in Gurbani

Braham Giani sabh srishat ka karta ||
Braham Giani sad jeeve nahin marta ||
Braham Giani mukt jugat ka daata ||
Braham Giani pooran purakh bidhata ||
Braham Giani anaath ka naath ||
Braham Giani ka sabh upar haath ||
Braham Giani ka sagal aakaar ||
Braham Giani aap nirankaar ||


There are 7 other paudiyaans of this 8th ashtpadi but summarizing and understanding of just the 8th paudi removes all the doubts about who should be called Brahm Giani.

Sentence wise, brief meanings are as follows:-
1. Brahm Giani is he who has created this whole universe.
2. Brahm Giani always lives, he never dies.
3. Brahm Giani shows the way to salvation, shows the way to live life.
4. Brahm Giani is in truth the puran purakh (consummate), and the one who gives birth to all.
5. Brahm Giani helps the helpless.
6. Brahm Giani showers his blessings on everyone.
7. All visible forms/shape (the world, the universe, the nature) are images (embodiments) of Brahm Giani.
8. Brahm Giani is nobody else, but the Supreme Power (God) himself.

The world knows that since we live in human bodies we all are bound to die one day - all the saints and our own 10 reverent Gurus had to leave as well. Whoever has foolishly tried to convince people to call himself God, he has lost respect in the eyes of intelligent people. If the misuse of above mentioned line was being done by Maskeen ji's family only, it might have been a little less painful, but the preachers who have been taught by Maskeen ji did blunders against Gurbani as well. Extremely painful is the fact that when all these blunders were visibly and noticeably made in such ceremonies, all the 5 heads of our 5 Takhts were present there. The heads of Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee (DGMC) and Shiromani Gurudwara Management committee (SGPC) were all present there. There were other numerous preachers, honorable personalities present on this occasion and none of them could say a word till the end about this self created doctrine. Then should we simply drink this bitter pain and be calm that all these people don’t even have the slightest understanding of Gurbani, or should we think that these people have become so much coward that they could not dare to speak the truth? At least somebody could have said this at sometime, “Saad Sangat! This line means God (IkOnkar) himself, and God (IkOnkar) never dies. We all bodily organisms are bound to destruction.”

Now let’s consider some of the comments by the responsible people during the 2nd March 2005 tribute ceremony: -

Role model for Sikh society: Every invitee come on stage reiterated this again and again on the mike that Maskeen Ji was a role model for your life and were a source of inspiration for the Sikh Panth. Note that in today’s world our reverent “Guru Sahibaan” are seen no more as role models for the Sikh society, Gurbani is no more the source of inspiration for Sikhs.

Sun?: More trumpets of praise were blown on the stage, “Maskeen were like sun of knowledge, he was “Vidya Martand”, he was great Gurbani speaker (kathawachak)” Note that all other shining things do not have their own source of light rather they shine by reflecting the light from Sun. Sun is the only unique power which does not need to borrow light from somewhere else, the shine and heat is of its own. What Maskeen ji told the listeners (sangat), was that knowledge his own? The knowledgeable people from the Sikh society know that this “shine” of knowledge was from the great writers of our Gurbani. The treasure in the form of Gurbani given to us by our Gurus is the sun of knowledge for us. If we use the title of Sun for Maskeen ji, then what words should we us for our Guru Sahibaan? If anybody has doubt then please listen carefully Maskeen ji’s lectures and start reading Osho’s (Rajneesh’s) books. You will find word by word repetition other then a few exceptions here and there. And the difference that seems to be counting is that general Sikh population has not read Osho’s books.

Just repeated Osho’s words: Now if you call Maskeen ji great speaker of Gurbani, then please excuse me, in his 40 years of exposure to public he has not done preaching of Gurbani. If he has spoke of anything other then Osho’s words, they were the poems of Sheik Sadi, Meer, Daag, Mirza Ghalib and Faiz etc. In his 1 hour of lecture one will find very few lines from Gurbani and that too incomplete. He never spoke whole “shabad” from Gurbani. He never remained stationed at any place for 1 or 2 months to do continuous recitation of Gurbani. But yes, he adored the Dasam Granth which is full of obscene stories. He used to tell with great excitation the carnal act ridden stories from Dasam Granth.

After the death of the richest story-teller lakhs more were given from the religious funds: A check worth 50 thousand was given to Maskee ji’s wife as a help from the Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee. In addition to this, a promise was given of no interference in all those places which were in the possession of Maskeen ji’s family. Those properties belonged to the committee and hence were the public religious fund generated properties but were given away to Maskeen ji’s family. Forgetting all ancient scholars and brave Sikhs, the Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee’s head announced to start an award in the name of Maskeen ji. Perhaps these people have accepted Maskeen ji as greatest among all those ancient scholars and brave men.

Why so much attention for Maskeen ji?: Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) went one step ahead. In memory of Maskeen ji, Bhai Gurdaas award was declared. Reward of one lakh rupees was reserved for Maskeen ji’s wife. Ten lakh rupees were given to Maskeen ji’s family by SGPC right away ......

The Maskeen ji, whose 3 sons have settled businesses very well in foreign lands, he who had earned enormous money by selling audio cassettes of his lectures, by selling books and by delivering lectures, was given even more money. The money that public is faithfully donating in the Gurudwara’s is being wasted in acts like this; he who is already flourishing was given even more. There were no education centers being opened to train economically weaker Sikh youth in reading/reciting Gurbani rather Maskeen’s family, which was already playing in millions, was distributed with even more big gifts. These type of gifts were never given to the greats of the likes of Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Dr. Ganda Singh, S. Narain Singh (Guru Nanak Mission, Patiala) and others. Why only Maskeen ji was given this great attention? ... It’s worth thinking.

Preaching against Gurmat: There are numerous examples of how Maskeen ji taught wrong meanings of Gurbani, how he told wrong meanings of Gurbani at his own will. Let’s consider a few examples:-

Naam and Kaam: - Sadly, in his one hour lecture Maskeen ji clearly represents Satguru ji as lover of “Kok Shastra” (ancient unscientific brahminic work). He used to do the blunder of picking incomplete lines from Gurbani for reasoning. He used to present carnal proofs using these. Note this line picked by him, “Baal kanya ko baap pyara....” (596) and now note his explanation, “A daughter loves her father, and a son loves his mother. Fathers love is more for daughter as compared to his love for son, a mothers love is more towards her son as compared to her love for daughter this is because there is deep attraction between opposite sexes” The place from where Maskeen ji has picked this incomplete line, there the actual subject was that of death, sex is not at all referred there. In reality the complete lines are:-


Mai baap ko beta neeka, samoorey chatur jawai ||
Baal kanniya ko baap piyara bhai ko ati bhai ||
Hukam bhaya bahur ghar chodya khinn mahi bhai parai ||

Fan of naked idols of Khajuraho: The nudity ridden carnal-lust instigating idols of the Khajuraho temple in the state of Madhya Pradesh, which were placed there by people who lost their way, are seen as Gurmat by Maskeen Ji. He has openly praised the nudity and the sculptures of these idols and has crossed all limits of morality by using Gurbani wrongfully to provide instances. He has also done the mean act of relating our Gurus with these idols. Our Gurbani has shown us path to live life with self-control. These idols which have been praised by Maskeen Ji break all limits of self-control and represent shameless acts to the public. Yours truly got a chance to see these idols at Khajuraho, the guide of that place was speaking of these indecent carnal-lust ridden idols in the same way as Maskeen ji and was representing them to be the work of great saints. The guide also mentioned that after seeing these idols for a while you will become peaceful and then go inside the temple and have the sight of the God. Yours truly apprehended the guide for his wrongful saying and asked, “You ignorant human! I am an old man of 58 years and watching these idols have made me uneasy and restless. It will take me at least a weak to get normal and peaceful again. What would have been the effect of watching these idols on the young people?” And our Maskeen ji visualized these idols in accordance with Gurmat.

Can a human become invisible?: In his stories Maskeen ji tells big lie that, “By reciting Naam human being can become as minute as an atom. He can then go anywhere he wants including Moon, Sun, or Stars in the flash of an eye. He can minimize or enlarge his body as much as he wants” For lines used for instance are the following: -

Parmanoo parjant aakaasheh deep loye sikhandaneh ||
Gachchen nain bharen Nanak, Nanak bina sadhoo na sidhtey ||

In reality, Guru Arjun Dev ji was well aware of the enormous strength of Atomic power. The lines above said by Guru Arjun Dev ji are saying that a human being can generate enormous power by understanding how Atoms work. Using this strength humans can travel very long distances in very short time. But the abundance of materials and super fast speeds will not be able to provide any happiness to humans, everlasting happiness can will only be achieved from Satguru ji’s orders.

Blind praise of Devi/Devtey: Maskeen ji has spoken of hours and hours in the praise of Raam, Krishan, Brahma and Vishnu. He has been promoting King Ram Chander as in ideal human being, has been praising limitlessly the ancient mythological gods. It is sad that he never remembered those who have been cut into pieces by saws, those innocents who have been hanged, those who had to live in jungles, the big and small Sikh holocausts etc. Hindus gods and goddesses were dear to him but in his entire life he did not describe any principle from the Gurbani.

He spread rumors himself that fairies come to listen to his lectures: On one hand Maskeen ji used to tell good things in his lectures, but on the other hand he used to tell unscientific mock able things very often. Recorded audios and videos are witness to my writing. One lie that he often used to tell on his stages is that, “Fairies and gods come to listen my lectures. They are not visible to anybody but just to me”. Maskeen ji had no regret to tell this one more lie that with faith in Naam a human can become bodyless and within a flash of an eye can go anywhere he wants to. In Maskeen ji’s own words, “I have seen these type of people”. I don’t know what which religion Maskeen ji had been serving with these kinds of lies? Why he himself could not become bodyless with the power of 40 – 50 years of his own Naam faith? Then there would have been no need for automobiles, planes and ships.

Our so called jathedars: What to expect from other to speak against the wrong doings when all 5 jathedars (leaders of 5 Takhats) were also present there. There were those jathedars who just 3 days ago were mud slinging each other, were ready to smash Paggs (turbans) of each other in front of ETC TV channel and our Guru Granth Sahib ji at Akal Takhat. Somebody was engulfed in bribery case, whereas some other was facing the charges of having 3 wives. The same Vedanti, with the connivance of other jathedars, declared Dhanwant Singh Saint not guilty. The government court of Gurdaspur declared this same Dhanwant Singh Saint guilty and pronounced 10 years jail with labor and also fined him with 10 thousand rupees. A jathedar charged with case of taking bribe questioned another jathedar Iqbal Singh (from Patna) for keeping 3 wives. Iqbal Singh raged out of Akal Takhat blaming Satguru ji. In the tribute ceremony of Maskeen ji, the same Iqbal Singh had again become “Singh Sahib” and was preaching people.


When Maskeen ji was bound by UK Gurudwara Management: The South Hall Gurudwara Management in UK bravely bounded Maskeen ji telling, “We want to listen Gurmat from you, we do not want to listen to self created stories less we have to cancel the program”. Maskeen Ji replied, "If you want me to talk only about Gurmat then first stop recording all the video films, I cannot talk just about Gurmat while being recorded". The cameras we shut down and he did very good preaching from Gurbani. With his TV channels programs he seemed to be more worried about pleasing his Hindu followers, and remained step motherly to Sikh philosophy. On these channels he was seen talking more about mythological Hindu gods and goddesses more and less about Guru Sahibaan.

Gurudwara Management to Nirmaliye: Maskeen ji has written a book on Gurudwara management and has distributed this book free of cost. In that book he mentions that the present Gurudwara management is useless, and the solution that he mentions in the book is that the Gurudwara Management should be given back to "Nirmaliye". Maskeen ji got education from a "Nirmaliya" teacher and he himself is a follower of "Nirmaliya" sect and is a disciple of Baba Shri Chand. These Nirmalye were the people who spread the "Brahmani" rituals in the Gurudwaras in the past. Maskeen ji talked about people but has never talked about Paanth (Sikh Paanth).

References:-

1. POFESSOR INDER SINGH GHAGGA'S ARTICLES
2. SSI Canada
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
10
Re: S. Inder Singh Ji Ghagga called to Akal Takhat

Khalsa Ji,

Sat Shri Akaal!

Just finished the translation of Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga's article on Sant Maskeen.


Was Giani Sant Singh Maskeen "Vidya Maartand" and "Brahm Giani"?

(Author: Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga, translated from
original Punjabi text by Akashdeep Singh Aulakh)




Vocabulary: -
Vidya Martand = Sun of Knowledge
Brahm Giani = He who knows the truth of the universe, he is the creator of the universe, he is formless, yet he is present in every form on this earth. (Shri Sukhmani Sahib)
Gurmat = the ideology/intelligence given by Sikh spiritual gurus, the Sikh faith.
Bhog = conclusion ceremony after Paath is complete.
Paath = the act of reading and understanding the Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib.



If you keep Maskeen ji's lecture audios on one side and read Osho's (Rajneesh's) books first, you will feel it yourself that Giani Maskeen Ji exactly repeated Osho's words and scarcely talked about Sikh faith.

The management of one gurudwara in England imposed a restriction on Maskeen ji for his lectures in that gurudwara that he should talk only about Gurbani and Gurmat, and not Brahamanical fables and stories during his lecture in that Gurudwara. Maskeen Ji replied, "If you want me to talk only about Gurmat (the knowledge/instruction from the Sikh gurus) then first stop recording all the video films, I cannot talk just about Gurmat while being recorded". By getting recorded talking just about Gurmat, he did not want to disappoint his followers who adhere to Hinduism.

Against Gurmat, he often makes this claim that fairies come to listen to his lectures and are visible to Maskeen Ji only.

He is already considered to be a millionaire preacher, what good for Gurmat has been done by presenting his family with tens and tens of lakhs of rupees?

At the time of bhog, he was being promoted as "Brahm Giani" with the help of banners put on height. On the other hand, Gurbani only calls "Akaal Purakh" as Brahm Giani and mentions that Brahm Giani never dies.

He was a big fan of mythological gods, the carnal-lust idols of Khajuraho and the nudity ridden stories from the Dasam Granth and kept using Gurbani wrongly to prove the carnal-lust instigating stories that he used to tell.

Maskeen ji has written a book on Gurudwara Management and has distributed this book free of cost. In that book he mentions that the present Gurudwara Management is useless , and the solution that he mentions in the book is that the Gurudwara Management should be given back to "Nirmaliye". Maskeen ji got education from a "Nirmaliya" teacher and he himself is a follower of "Nirmaliya" sect and is a disciple of Baba Shri Chand. These Nirmalye were the people who spread the "Brahmani" beliefs in the Gurudwaras in the past. He talked about people but has never talked about Paanth (Sikh Paanth).

I would have never written this article, if I did not get chance to see the 7 hours of live telecast of Sant Maskeen ji's last rituals and tribute ceremonies on ETC TV channel. It is not possible for one to knowingly gulp a fly in the milk, in the tribute ceremony the following incomplete line from Gurbani was written in bold words in front of Guru Granth Sahib ji -

"Brahm Gyani sad jeeve nahi marta"

Watching and reading this shocked my mind and heart. This big blunder? The person who all his life kept speaking on the stages meant for preaching Gurmat, who earned his living by supposedly preaching Gurmat could not teach the essence of Gurbani to his family and his disciple and the likes of Ranjeet Singh Gohar who were managing these ceremonies?. The incomplete line mentioned above has been picked up from 8th ashtpadi of Shri Sukhmani Sahib and has been used by these people in a way to emphasize that Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen was "Brahm Giani" and he has not died but is alive because being a "Brahm Giani" he cannot die. Now kindly pay attention to the 8th ashtpadi from where the incomplete line mentioned above has been picked, and note who has been called "Brahm Giani" in Gurbani

Braham Giani sabh srishat ka karta ||
Braham Giani sad jeeve nahin marta ||
Braham Giani mukt jugat ka daata ||
Braham Giani pooran purakh bidhata ||
Braham Giani anaath ka naath ||
Braham Giani ka sabh upar haath ||
Braham Giani ka sagal aakaar ||
Braham Giani aap nirankaar ||


There are 7 other paudiyaans of this 8th ashtpadi but summarizing and understanding of just the 8th paudi removes all the doubts about who should be called Brahm Giani.

Sentence wise, brief meanings are as follows:-
1. Brahm Giani is he who has created this whole universe.
2. Brahm Giani always lives, he never dies.
3. Brahm Giani shows the way to salvation, shows the way to live life.
4. Brahm Giani is in truth the puran purakh (consummate), and the one who gives birth to all.
5. Brahm Giani helps the helpless.
6. Brahm Giani showers his blessings on everyone.
7. All visible forms/shape (the world, the universe, the nature) are images (embodiments) of Brahm Giani.
8. Brahm Giani is nobody else, but the Supreme Power (God) himself.

The world knows that since we live in human bodies we all are bound to die one day - all the saints and our own 10 reverent Gurus had to leave as well. Whoever has foolishly tried to convince people to call himself God, he has lost respect in the eyes of intelligent people. If the misuse of above mentioned line was being done by Maskeen ji's family only, it might have been a little less painful, but the preachers who have been taught by Maskeen ji did blunders against Gurbani as well. Extremely painful is the fact that when all these blunders were visibly and noticeably made in such ceremonies, all the 5 heads of our 5 Takhts were present there. The heads of Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee (DGMC) and Shiromani Gurudwara Management committee (SGPC) were all present there. There were other numerous preachers, honorable personalities present on this occasion and none of them could say a word till the end about this self created doctrine. Then should we simply drink this bitter pain and be calm that all these people don’t even have the slightest understanding of Gurbani, or should we think that these people have become so much coward that they could not dare to speak the truth? At least somebody could have said this at sometime, “Saad Sangat! This line means God (IkOnkar) himself, and God (IkOnkar) never dies. We all bodily organisms are bound to destruction.”

Now let’s consider some of the comments by the responsible people during the 2nd March 2005 tribute ceremony: -

Role model for Sikh society: Every invitee come on stage reiterated this again and again on the mike that Maskeen Ji was a role model for your life and were a source of inspiration for the Sikh Panth. Note that in today’s world our reverent “Guru Sahibaan” are seen no more as role models for the Sikh society, Gurbani is no more the source of inspiration for Sikhs.

Sun?: More trumpets of praise were blown on the stage, “Maskeen were like sun of knowledge, he was “Vidya Martand”, he was great Gurbani speaker (kathawachak)” Note that all other shining things do not have their own source of light rather they shine by reflecting the light from Sun. Sun is the only unique power which does not need to borrow light from somewhere else, the shine and heat is of its own. What Maskeen ji told the listeners (sangat), was that knowledge his own? The knowledgeable people from the Sikh society know that this “shine” of knowledge was from the great writers of our Gurbani. The treasure in the form of Gurbani given to us by our Gurus is the sun of knowledge for us. If we use the title of Sun for Maskeen ji, then what words should we us for our Guru Sahibaan? If anybody has doubt then please listen carefully Maskeen ji’s lectures and start reading Osho’s (Rajneesh’s) books. You will find word by word repetition other then a few exceptions here and there. And the difference that seems to be counting is that general Sikh population has not read Osho’s books.

Just repeated Osho’s words: Now if you call Maskeen ji great speaker of Gurbani, then please excuse me, in his 40 years of exposure to public he has not done preaching of Gurbani. If he has spoke of anything other then Osho’s words, they were the poems of Sheik Sadi, Meer, Daag, Mirza Ghalib and Faiz etc. In his 1 hour of lecture one will find very few lines from Gurbani and that too incomplete. He never spoke whole “shabad” from Gurbani. He never remained stationed at any place for 1 or 2 months to do continuous recitation of Gurbani. But yes, he adored the Dasam Granth which is full of obscene stories. He used to tell with great excitation the carnal act ridden stories from Dasam Granth.

After the death of the richest story-teller lakhs more were given from the religious funds: A check worth 50 thousand was given to Maskee ji’s wife as a help from the Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee. In addition to this, a promise was given of no interference in all those places which were in the possession of Maskeen ji’s family. Those properties belonged to the committee and hence were the public religious fund generated properties but were given away to Maskeen ji’s family. Forgetting all ancient scholars and brave Sikhs, the Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee’s head announced to start an award in the name of Maskeen ji. Perhaps these people have accepted Maskeen ji as greatest among all those ancient scholars and brave men.

Why so much attention for Maskeen ji?: Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) went one step ahead. In memory of Maskeen ji, Bhai Gurdaas award was declared. Reward of one lakh rupees was reserved for Maskeen ji’s wife. Ten lakh rupees were given to Maskeen ji’s family by SGPC right away ......

The Maskeen ji, whose 3 sons have settled businesses very well in foreign lands, he who had earned enormous money by selling audio cassettes of his lectures, by selling books and by delivering lectures, was given even more money. The money that public is faithfully donating in the Gurudwara’s is being wasted in acts like this; he who is already flourishing was given even more. There were no education centers being opened to train economically weaker Sikh youth in reading/reciting Gurbani rather Maskeen’s family, which was already playing in millions, was distributed with even more big gifts. These type of gifts were never given to the greats of the likes of Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Dr. Ganda Singh, S. Narain Singh (Guru Nanak Mission, Patiala) and others. Why only Maskeen ji was given this great attention? ... It’s worth thinking.

Preaching against Gurmat: There are numerous examples of how Maskeen ji taught wrong meanings of Gurbani, how he told wrong meanings of Gurbani at his own will. Let’s consider a few examples:-

Naam and Kaam: - Sadly, in his one hour lecture Maskeen ji clearly represents Satguru ji as lover of “Kok Shastra” (ancient unscientific brahminic work). He used to do the blunder of picking incomplete lines from Gurbani for reasoning. He used to present carnal proofs using these. Note this line picked by him, “Baal kanya ko baap pyara....” (596) and now note his explanation, “A daughter loves her father, and a son loves his mother. Fathers love is more for daughter as compared to his love for son, a mothers love is more towards her son as compared to her love for daughter this is because there is deep attraction between opposite sexes” The place from where Maskeen ji has picked this incomplete line, there the actual subject was that of death, sex is not at all referred there. In reality the complete lines are:-


Mai baap ko beta neeka, samoorey chatur jawai ||
Baal kanniya ko baap piyara bhai ko ati bhai ||
Hukam bhaya bahur ghar chodya khinn mahi bhai parai ||

Fan of naked idols of Khajuraho: The nudity ridden carnal-lust instigating idols of the Khajuraho temple in the state of Madhya Pradesh, which were placed there by people who lost their way, are seen as Gurmat by Maskeen Ji. He has openly praised the nudity and the sculptures of these idols and has crossed all limits of morality by using Gurbani wrongfully to provide instances. He has also done the mean act of relating our Gurus with these idols. Our Gurbani has shown us path to live life with self-control. These idols which have been praised by Maskeen Ji break all limits of self-control and represent shameless acts to the public. Yours truly got a chance to see these idols at Khajuraho, the guide of that place was speaking of these indecent carnal-lust ridden idols in the same way as Maskeen ji and was representing them to be the work of great saints. The guide also mentioned that after seeing these idols for a while you will become peaceful and then go inside the temple and have the sight of the God. Yours truly apprehended the guide for his wrongful saying and asked, “You ignorant human! I am an old man of 58 years and watching these idols have made me uneasy and restless. It will take me at least a weak to get normal and peaceful again. What would have been the effect of watching these idols on the young people?” And our Maskeen ji visualized these idols in accordance with Gurmat.

Can a human become invisible?: In his stories Maskeen ji tells big lie that, “By reciting Naam human being can become as minute as an atom. He can then go anywhere he wants including Moon, Sun, or Stars in the flash of an eye. He can minimize or enlarge his body as much as he wants” For lines used for instance are the following: -

Parmanoo parjant aakaasheh deep loye sikhandaneh ||
Gachchen nain bharen Nanak, Nanak bina sadhoo na sidhtey ||

In reality, Guru Arjun Dev ji was well aware of the enormous strength of Atomic power. The lines above said by Guru Arjun Dev ji are saying that a human being can generate enormous power by understanding how Atoms work. Using this strength humans can travel very long distances in very short time. But the abundance of materials and super fast speeds will not be able to provide any happiness to humans, everlasting happiness can will only be achieved from Satguru ji’s orders.

Blind praise of Devi/Devtey: Maskeen ji has spoken of hours and hours in the praise of Raam, Krishan, Brahma and Vishnu. He has been promoting King Ram Chander as in ideal human being, has been praising limitlessly the ancient mythological gods. It is sad that he never remembered those who have been cut into pieces by saws, those innocents who have been hanged, those who had to live in jungles, the big and small Sikh holocausts etc. Hindus gods and goddesses were dear to him but in his entire life he did not describe any principle from the Gurbani.

He spread rumors himself that fairies come to listen to his lectures: On one hand Maskeen ji used to tell good things in his lectures, but on the other hand he used to tell unscientific mock able things very often. Recorded audios and videos are witness to my writing. One lie that he often used to tell on his stages is that, “Fairies and gods come to listen my lectures. They are not visible to anybody but just to me”. Maskeen ji had no regret to tell this one more lie that with faith in Naam a human can become bodyless and within a flash of an eye can go anywhere he wants to. In Maskeen ji’s own words, “I have seen these type of people”. I don’t know what which religion Maskeen ji had been serving with these kinds of lies? Why he himself could not become bodyless with the power of 40 – 50 years of his own Naam faith? Then there would have been no need for automobiles, planes and ships.

Our so called jathedars: What to expect from other to speak against the wrong doings when all 5 jathedars (leaders of 5 Takhats) were also present there. There were those jathedars who just 3 days ago were mud slinging each other, were ready to smash Paggs (turbans) of each other in front of ETC TV channel and our Guru Granth Sahib ji at Akal Takhat. Somebody was engulfed in bribery case, whereas some other was facing the charges of having 3 wives. The same Vedanti, with the connivance of other jathedars, declared Dhanwant Singh Saint not guilty. The government court of Gurdaspur declared this same Dhanwant Singh Saint guilty and pronounced 10 years jail with labor and also fined him with 10 thousand rupees. A jathedar charged with case of taking bribe questioned another jathedar Iqbal Singh (from Patna) for keeping 3 wives. Iqbal Singh raged out of Akal Takhat blaming Satguru ji. In the tribute ceremony of Maskeen ji, the same Iqbal Singh had again become “Singh Sahib” and was preaching people.


When Maskeen ji was bound by UK Gurudwara Management: The South Hall Gurudwara Management in UK bravely bounded Maskeen ji telling, “We want to listen Gurmat from you, we do not want to listen to self created stories less we have to cancel the program”. Maskeen Ji replied, "If you want me to talk only about Gurmat then first stop recording all the video films, I cannot talk just about Gurmat while being recorded". The cameras we shut down and he did very good preaching from Gurbani. With his TV channels programs he seemed to be more worried about pleasing his Hindu followers, and remained step motherly to Sikh philosophy. On these channels he was seen talking more about mythological Hindu gods and goddesses more and less about Guru Sahibaan.

Gurudwara Management to Nirmaliye: Maskeen ji has written a book on Gurudwara management and has distributed this book free of cost. In that book he mentions that the present Gurudwara management is useless, and the solution that he mentions in the book is that the Gurudwara Management should be given back to "Nirmaliye". Maskeen ji got education from a "Nirmaliya" teacher and he himself is a follower of "Nirmaliya" sect and is a disciple of Baba Shri Chand. These Nirmalye were the people who spread the "Brahmani" rituals in the Gurudwaras in the past. Maskeen ji talked about people but has never talked about Paanth (Sikh Paanth).

References:-

1. POFESSOR INDER SINGH GHAGGA'S ARTICLES
2. SSI Canada
 

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SPNer
Jun 1, 2004
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Admin Note for Your Information: Two similar threads in different forums have been merged into this one. Regards.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ
सतजुगि तै माणिओ छलिओ बलि बावन भाइओ ॥
satjug tai maani-o chhali-o bal baavan bhaa-i-o.
In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ
त्रेतै तै माणिओ रामु रघुवंसु कहाइओ ॥
taraytai tai maani-o raam raghoovans kahaa-i-o.
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ
दुआपुरि क्रिसन मुरारि कंसु किरतारथु कीओ ॥
du-aapur krisan muraar kans kirtaarath kee-o.
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ
उग्रसैण कउ राजु अभै भगतह जन दीओ ॥
ugarsain ka-o raaj abhai bhagtah jan dee-o.
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ
कलिजुगि प्रमाणु नानक गुरु अंगदु अमरु कहाइओ ॥
kalijug parmaan naanak gur angad amar kahaa-i-o.
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥
स्री गुरू राजु अबिचलु अटलु आदि पुरखि फुरमाइओ ॥७॥
saree guroo raaj abichal atal aad purakh furmaa-i-o. ||7||
The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||

Ang 1390.

Das has many such things seen in Guru Granth Sahib.They are here to preach Gurmat by mythological figures.

so Bhai Akashdeep Singh Ji,

Is this also an interpolation?

If not then why were Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji a sinner?
 
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Gurfateh

Das has many such things seen in Guru Granth Sahib.They are here to preach Gurmat by mythological figures.
Veerji, what point are you trying to prove here. I have had hard time understanding your points. I would appreciate if you can kindly be clear, it will save you your time and will save me my as well.

Is this also an interpolation?
What interpolation? Can you please elaborate this point for me? My veer, for someone who has gone to that extent to find this example from the internet, it should be very easy to understand what Gurbani is really saying. Then you will not need me to comment on these lines.

If not then why were Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji a sinner?
My veer, I'm not here to prove anybody a sinner. If anybody writes or preaches anything against the teachings of our Gurus and tries to present himself as a Sikh as well, then it becomes the duty of you and me to read, evaluate and think and save our precious Gurbani from being adulterated.

To prove anybody a sinner I'll have to be God myself. I just request the Khalsa to educate their minds and think logically. Sikhism has no place for blind illogical faith. If that be right, then why did ever Guru Nanak Dev ji question the superstitions and rituals in which he was born? No my friend, I cannot let the philosophy of Guru Nanak Dev ji die.

Moreover, to support Baba Gurbachan Singh ji one will have agree that the following writings and acts are right :-
  • Giani Gurbachan Singh (Taksal leader) himself prefixed the following “alankaars” to his name : “Srimaan - Panth Ratan -Vidya Martand – Sant – Giani – Gurbachan Singh Ji.”
  • Taksal is emphasizing that Guru Nanak Dev ji is from Kush (Ram’s sons) dynasty.
  • Guru Angad Sahib ji is written to be from the dynasty of Lakshman’s son.
  • Guru Amardaas ji is told to be from the dynasty of Bharat.
  • Guru Ramdaas ji is written to be from the dynasty of lahoo.
  • Guru Har Rai ji got married 8 times.
  • Bhai Dya Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avatar (re-incarnation) of lahoo
  • Bhai Dharam Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Panna ji.
  • Bhai Himmat Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Chaturbhuji (four armed)
  • Bhai Mohkam Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Namdev ji
  • Bhai Sahib Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Sain ji
  • A lady with her “pati vrata shakti” (power gained by worshipping her husband) could travel for Kabul to Goindwal every morning and return back to Kabul every evening. With her same power she could move the cradle of her child in Kabul while she was in Goindwal.
  • Another lady with the same “pati vrata shakti” stopped the sun from rising and only released the sun when her husband was made alive by the gods again.
  • Satguru has restricted us from wearing red color clothes.
  • Taksal has written that “Mool mantar” is till “Nanak ho si bhi sach” whereas the truth is that “Mool mantar” is till “Gur parsad”.
  • Baba Sunder Singh’s father Khajan Singh used to read path standing on one foot so that he could get a son as a boon.
  • While the child is being born, the nurse (or “dai”) should only be a Sikh. Does not Taksal members and leaders go to hospitals? ... are all nurses Sikh there?
  • Baba Farid kept meditating in jungles for years and ate the leaves of trees. This is totally false, as I have read Baba Farid was against such acts.
  • Baba Farid kept hanging in a well for 13 years and kept meditating.
  • Guru Gobind Singh ji had a hidden book with them. (why would guru ji hide that from his Khalsa, I think this is being said so that these guys (taksal) can write their own book and later say they have found that hidden book).
  • Bhai Dya Singh, Dharam Singh , Bhai Himmat Singh, Bhai Mohkam Singh and Bhai Sahib Singh’s head was cut by Guru Gobind Singh ji and put as a giving in front of Guru Granth Sahib. Taksal mentions that this fact is written in hidden book of Guru Gobind Singh ji. (Excellent way to fool innocent people!).
  • Bhai Himmat Singh Ji ( one of panj pyare ) was cursed in his last birth. God had told him that in the form of 10th guru I will cut your head and release you. (This seems to be a story picked up from Hindu mythology)
  • When the heads of Panj Pyare were cut, amrit was sprinkled and new heads grew on their shoulders. (Notice the use of “grew”).
  • Guru ji gave “amrit” to 2 sparrows and those 2 sparrows died fighting with each other. Gurbaksh Singh named sikh ran to honorable mother and she put some patasey (sweets) into amrit only then the amrit became peaceful. (Think it over, the so called mythical man in Taksal writing ran to honorable mother. Does that mean had disbelief in Guru Gobind Singh ji, does this mean Guru ji made some blunder while preparing amrit??)
  • Panj pyare’s said to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, “Just like Ram Chander honored monkeys, you are honoring us”. ( are we monkeys now?? And that too panj pyare?? This is insult of each sikh)
  • If you recite Keertan Sohila before sleeping an iron fort will be build around you. (Think, if that is possible then we do not need to lock our houses).
  • Tobbacco has come into being due to the blood that oozed out of the feet of kaamdhenu Cow. (wow! It will take an idiot to believe this and they are trying to teach this to the Sikhs).
  • Khalsa should only wear blue, yellow, black or white, no other color.
  • Narad muni (from Hindu mythology) gifted Guru Gobind Singh ji with the feathers of a bird, that is why Guru Gobind Singh ji had so many powers.
  • When Dan Singh asked about long hair of Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh ji replied that Sikhs have long hair so that they can be pulled out of hell by holding them with these long hair (what an insult of Sikh identity)
  • Women should not be involved in preparation of amrit.
  • Women should not perform Gidha in marriages.
  • The wife of King Hari Sen came to court in a viel, Guru asked, “who is this insane women?” The same time she became insane. (Think, will guru ji make any body insane?)
  • Bhai Heera Singh died while reciting Gurbani. Chariots (rath) from sky came to take him. ( I feel like laughing, seems like these people have watched Ramanand Sagar’s Ramayan too much)
  • Kachchera (undergarment), comb etc. should be tied with a dead person. (Again!, a Hindu superstition).
  • Sikh priests should not eat garlic and onion. (What??)
  • Use desi ghee (oil made from butter) for jyot (candle) for paath and dhoop (fragrance stick) should always be burning. (Very soon, they will release the next version of it – keep everything in a plate and perform aarti of Guru Granth Sahib and put tilak on everyone’s forehead)
  • Also Taksal has mentioned the list of other such materials needed for paath.(Just like a pandit will give a long list of “pooja samgri”)
  • After bhog performing aarti is necessary.
  • Taksal writings mention, you cannot go in front of Guru Granth Sahib wearing pajamas, women should also follow the same rule. (Do you see any logic here??)
  • To give the proof that he is right guru, 10th guru recited Gurbani entirely from his memory so that people do not suspect him. (????)
  • Sikh Priest should kept “maun vrat”, should not court with his wife. If he suffers from night fall he should go to toiled and then wash his hair. (Oh god! What nonsense?).
  • Gifting coconut is equal to gifting a head. (well, then why “Sir dhar tali gali meri ayo”??? why not “Nariyal (coconut) dhar tali gali meri ayo” ????)
  • If paath is recited properly then the inside nut part of the coconut will become ashes.
  • Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha has written wrong by Raag Mala. (Dear readers let me inform you and even Giani Gurdit Singh ji rejects Raag Mala as authentic part of Gurbani and he has proved with facts that this has been added by some unauthorized person. Enthusiastic reader is encourage to search the internet for “Mundavani” and related spellings.)
Veerji, from someone who is spending considerable time on the internet I expect I don't have to say same things over and over again. Please read them yourself and try to be honest with your heart. Then you will not need anybody like me.

As far as I am concerned I have no doubt that these writings are wrong and should not be fed to the brains of innocent people. And my veer please do not give me examples from "Raagmala" and "Dasam Granth". Thinking logically you yourself will come to know.
  1. Search for "Mundavani" and I hope you know what this word means and where it is written, and why it is written there? This will clear your mind on Raagmala issue.
  2. If the Dasam Granth was complete at the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, then Guru Gobind Singh ji would have themselves asked us to follow it.
Keep up the great job my friend! with the hard work that you are doing, truth cannot evade you forever.

Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Dear Brother,

Das would like to say that as verse given by Das above were more to use preach Panth to non Panthic people by thier own vocabulary so such things were in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,else term Wahiguru or Kartar would only been used and not Allah or Kareem or say Mata or Ram.

Das hope you rhave got the point.

Then Taksal used term Baba and not what you say about Sant Ji.Say if some one use term Guru with Kala Afghana Ji as Sant Nirnakari do with thier Baba,then it may not be fualt of Kala Afghana Ji.

Just being purist of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and that also being influnce of personal worshiping protestants(they worship Lord Jesus) will make us person worshipper as we find Guru as living Human in Guru Granth Sahib,while Guru is living but Akal in Guru Granth Sahib.

Das is not from Taksal but some issues which he said for Taksal are contested By Taksal or Sanatan Sikhs also.some old things were there and we could change there but some things like accosiating Gurus or Sikhs with old mytholocigacl things is more to bring those following Mythology to Panth.Some Sikhs say that Sabre used for Baptism was of Hazrat Ali(Razi),it is there that mnay swrods of Tenth Master had Allah writtan over them and Guru did converted Muslims to Gurmat and thier swords were used.

So not a big thing.Likewise Gurmat what das feels in not Anti to polygamy as it is neraer to Islam.

Then coming to Mudavini das has read the oldest work of Alam and reached the conclusion which Bhai Vir Singh reached.

so there is thread started by Sister Harsimart Kaur Ji and let us discuss here and now.We do not have to fabriacte our past or see Truth as we want Truth to be as we want it to be.

Then to Dasham Granth das has threads and there we can discuss it further.

to answer the question did Guru asked us to follow Granth or not.

Have you sen the Rahit Nammah Bhai DeSa Singh ji and what Guru tells in there?Das is sure that you ahve not so you raised this question.


Yet das is aware that Dasham Granth is more a collection of about Threee Granths and within these Threee Granth we are told by Guru to folow them.In Rahit Nammah Bhai Daya Singh and Bhai Gurbax Singh we have more tihngs to support the queestion.

It is strange that the source which state that Dasham Granth is by Tenth Master are OK,when it comes to prove that Tenth Master gave Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib but authanticity of the same become blurred when we talk of Bani of Tenth Master being given in there.

main thing is Truth is not the Creation but manfester in creation Akal.

without understadning our God,it is useless to talk about scripture and that God is lmitless and we tend to act as we have limteed that god in scripture creatred by the same.

hope to listen more from you Brother.
 
Oct 15, 2006
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Then Taksal used term Baba and not what you say about Sant Ji.Say if some one use term Guru with Kala Afghana Ji as Sant Nirnakari do with thier Baba,then it may not be fualt of Kala Afghana Ji.
Dear brother, as per my knowledge, the book "Gurbani Paath Darshan" has been written by Gurbachan Singh ji himself so who added those adjectives?. Even if we put aside the issue of adding so many adjectives to own name-what about other things that are written in that book? Who wrote those useless things in the book "Gurbani Paath Darshan"? I cannot believe a person who has the understanding of Gurbani can write those things. And now leave that also aside and read "Gurmukh Prakash". I am pretty sure you will never have doubt again on the points raised by Prof. Inder Singh.

I dont understand why its so hard to see those wrong doings??

My veer, if you still have doubts I can give you the page numbers in those books and you can go and see them yourself.

Just being purist of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and that also being influnce of personal worshiping protestants(they worship Lord Jesus) will make us person worshipper as we find Guru as living Human in Guru Granth Sahib,while Guru is living but Akal in Guru Granth Sahib.
?????....huh!. what?

Das is not from Taksal but some issues which he said for Taksal are contested By Taksal or Sanatan Sikhs also.some old things were there and we could change there but some things like accosiating Gurus or Sikhs with old mytholocigacl things is more to bring those following Mythology to Panth.
.....??????

Some Sikhs say that Sabre used for Baptism was of Hazrat Ali(Razi),it is there that mnay swrods of Tenth Master had Allah writtan over them and Guru did converted Muslims to Gurmat and thier swords were used.
.....and now my Veer go ahead and read the books written by those people whom the Sikhs drove away from Punjab, I am pretty sure they will write things even more fascinating.

So not a big thing.Likewise Gurmat what das feels in not Anti to polygamy as it is neraer to Islam.
....??? Veerji, Gurmat accepts what is right and logical without caring who said that and from which faith that is coming. At the same time Gurmat rejects what is superstition and useless ritual regardless what faith it belongs to. Therefore, I do not see any point in measuring the nearness or farness of Gurmat from anything else.

...... Useless effort to bring Polygamy to Sikhism, have you seen the plight of Muslim women who are suffering due to this polygamy thing? Go and ask those women if they themselves believe in polygamy. In fact, years back in India, the muslim women were asking the Indian Government to mend the laws and ban polygamy (which is allowed only to muslims in India). I forgot that documentary's name which was specially compiled by a social worker, otherwise I could have cited the name for your reference.

In todays world, not a single man can do justice with more then one wife in terms of discharging his duties towards them. Do you think Gurbani will ever promote injustice to women???.... ah pardon me!

Can you jusfity here what you mean regarding polygamy?

Then coming to Mudavini das has read the oldest work of Alam and reached the conclusion which Bhai Vir Singh reached.
..well my friend that is your own conclusion.

so there is thread started by Sister Harsimart Kaur Ji and let us discuss here and now.
..I hope to be there and hope to find time to be on each and every thread some day.

We do not have to fabriacte our past or see Truth as we want Truth to be as we want it to be.
????. who is fabricating the past? and how?

Then to Dasham Granth das has threads and there we can discuss it further.
No logical thinking Sikh will ever agree that their beloved Guru Gobind Singh ji ever wrote the whole part of Dasam Granth. I have immense respect and love for Guru Gobind Singh ji. I cannot believe anybody who has the slighest understanding of Sikhism and Guru Gobind Singh ji can ever think that all what Dasam Granth has in it today was written by Guru Gobind Singh ji. .....Forgive me please! .....I am totally hurt by what people are doing to Guru Gobind Singh ji. Use some brain my brothers!

to answer the question did Guru asked us to follow Granth or not.Have you sen the Rahit Nammah Bhai DeSa Singh ji and what Guru tells in there?Das is sure that you ahve not so you raised this question.
?????....Again, I do not believe all part of Dasam Granth is Guru Gobind Singh ji's work.

It is strange that the source which state that Dasham Granth is by Tenth Master are OK,when it comes to prove that Tenth Master gave Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib but authanticity of the same become blurred when we talk of Bani of Tenth Master being given in there.
Convince me.

main thing is Truth is not the Creation but manfester in creation Akal.
what??

without understadning our God,it is useless to talk about scripture and that God is lmitless and we tend to act as we have limteed that god in scripture creatred by the same.
Again.....what are you trying to say??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep

"A lot of reading without contemplation will not be of any use, mind
will still be thoughtless. What good is the water for the roots, which
cannot be absorbed. And a thoughtless mind is like a balloon, wanders
aimlessly and eventually falls down."

 
Nov 18, 2006
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Gur Fateh ji,
After reading the hukam nama This is a news for me that Jathedar akal takhat has droped the word or title "vedanti" by his name. It was my curiousty to know why Jathedar Joginder singh of Akal takhat was so proud to be called vedanti.I am new to this form and do'nt have much knoweldge about Prof. ghaga's writings.As per news published in The Tribune and quated by you Prof. Ghaga and his assocites are not given a chance by Akal takhat to explain their position. I think time has come Akal Takhat should allow an open debate to sort out who is right and who is wrong.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Well first thing das would like to das over here is that some time pubilshers add the title then writer himssel as we talk about Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa but das will open as new thread to talk about all issues raised by Bhai Akash Deep SinghJi.

Bhai sahib asked that he wants to convinced that Guruship was only Givne to Guru Granth Sahib Ji after Tenth Master left to Sachkhand and not that Sabad is refred as Guru since First Master

OK.

Kinldy read Sidh Gost.

and porve authanticity of the the text which says that Guru did this while going to Sachkhand as most of such text says this also apporove Bani of Tenth Master did exists.

And again in Sarbloh Granth Guru says that Guru Granth Sahib Ji are Guru.As per Sau Sakhi it was Charan Pahil which was given before Khande Bate Das Pahil and in that corner of Guru Granth Sahib's Rumala was dipped in water and that water was used for Baptism.So Charan of Guru was more symbol of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Tenth Master gave Guruship to Khalsa once it was formed and there for took baptism from 5 beloved one.If this is not authanctic then sources which are same say Suraj Prakash also talk of Guru's giving Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib While going to Sachkhand.so we can not one thing be authantic to suit our idolgy and same thing unathatic while in other issues.

So again as we see that in Chamkaur Garhi and Dadudwara Guru obyed Panth Khalsa.So while going to Sachkhnad it was not passing the Guruship but reaffiring the Faith in Guruship of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


Then coming to title of the thread.


Das requests admin or modrators that this title das did not give,Das can never use such terms with low respects to Great Sikh like S. Inder Singh Ji Ghugga.So kinlgy the name of the scholar be writtan with respect as for Das he(S. Ghugga Ji) are gem of Sikh and like S. Kala Afghana Ji should be readdmiited to Panth.

Das finds himself on thier side and does has some difrreances and critisicm das does is more to let them have good pulling up soax and let them improve thier performances.

New thread is posted below.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14617-accuistions-made-upon-baba-gurbachan-singh.html
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh


My veer, whose performance you want to improve?

-Akashdeep
Das finds that not only to Gurmat but to whole mankind ideolgy of Missioanries is a blesssng from Akal.Yet they are all the more stuck up in pulling other Sikhs leg.

In Islam and Chrisitianty more preaching is done to converts non Muslims or non Christians to thier faith then pulling other brthern legs who may not agree to them in interpetaion of thier faith.

likewise they lack factor Dynamic(they are and can be easyly intimedated by some Sikh groups who are bullies.Many time das saw that speaking of Kala
Afghana Sahib stopped forceable and he could not do any thing.Das did tell Taksal that they should not be a part of such things)But factor dynamic and other leadership skills are needed in them.

So to imporve thier proformances and utilise the potential in them Das resotres to thiewr positive critism.In Gurbani,we have Slander even refered as soap to clean the wrong things.So das has dream that one day whole Panth will be united and intellect of Missioaries also will be utilised.And Akal's willing this will happen while we have diversity of opinions.
 
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