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Sikhism/Gurmatt Nankian Philosophy: A Totally New And Unique Path To The Creator

pk70

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Respected members, as I stated earlier, Mohinder Sahni is right in pointing out Dr Baldev Singh’s huge misunderstanding of Guru Nanak’s concept of “rebirth of the soul”. He thinks the meaning of “purble”(previous) is taken incorrectly, I avoided those Guru Vakas where “purble” word is used just to prove that Dr Singh ji is ignoring the repeated truth in Sree Guru Granth Sahib. Here are the following Guru Vakas, if some want to read the complete Shabad they can as page numbers are also given. I also provided Dr Sahib Singh’s interpretation here which is also ignored by Dr. Singh Ji

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੀ ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਾਲਾ ਹੋਆ ਸਿਆਹੁ ਖੰਨਲੀ ਧੋਤੀ ਉਜਲੀ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸਉ ਧੋਵਣਿ ਪਾਹੁ (SGGS651)
Salok mėhlā 3. Janam janam kī is man ka▫o mal lāgī kālā ho▫ā si▫āhu. Kẖanlī ḏẖoṯī ujlī na hova▫ī je sa▫o ḏẖovaṇ pāhu.
Slok 3rd Guru. The scum of so many births is attached to this soul and it has become pitch black. The oilman's rag turns not white by washing, even through it be washed a hundred times.
ਖੰਨਲੀ = ਤੇਲੀ ਦੀ ਕੋਹਲੂ ਵਿਚ ਫੇਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਲੀਰਧੋਵਣਿ ਪਾਹੁ = ਧੋਣ ਦਾ ਜਤਨ ਕਰੋ

ਕਈ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਇਸ ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਮੈਲ ਲੱਗੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਇਹ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਕਾਲਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਪਿਆ ਹੈ (ਚਿੱਟਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ), ਜਿਵੇਂ ਤੇਲੀ ਦੀ ਲੀਰ ਧੋਤਿਆਂ ਚਿੱਟੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦੀ, ਭਾਵੇਂ ਸੌ ਵਾਰੀ ਧੋਣ ਦਾ ਜਤਨ ਕਰੋ
If there is no rebirth, why its”Janam Janam”, why not “Is Janam”, janam janam is an expression showing plural sense of janam.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਉਲਟੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਤਿ ਬਦਲਾਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੈਲੁ ਲਗਈ ਨਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਹੁ
Gur parsādī jīvaṯ marai ultī hovai maṯ baḏlāhu. Nānak mail na lag▫ī nā fir jonī pāhu. ||1||
By Guru's grace, remains dead in life and his nature is altered and turned and away from the world. Nanak, no impurity attaches to him then and he falls not into the womb again.
ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਜੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ ਮਨ ਜੀਊਂਦਾ ਹੀ ਮਰੇ ਤੇ ਮਤਿ ਬਦਲ ਕੇ (ਮਾਇਆ ਵਲੋਂ) ਉਲਟ ਹੋ ਜਾਏ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਲ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੱਗਦੀ ਤੇ ਫਿਰ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ

If there is no rebirth, why”Fir” (Again”) is used here? Isn’t Guru talking about a soul that doesn’t again in to another existence if with the blessings of Guru one eliminates ego? Certainly he does.
SGGS 704
ਉਦਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਾਵਹੀ ਭਰਮਹਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਅਸੰਖ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮਹਿ ਆਵਹੀ ਪਸੂ ਪੰਖੀ ਸੈਲ ਤਰਵਰ ਗਣਤ ਕਛੂ ਆਵਏ ਬੀਜੁ ਬੋਵਸਿ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਕੀਆ ਅਪਣਾ ਪਾਵਏ ਰਤਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਹਾਰੰਤ ਜੂਐ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪਿ ਭਾਵਹੀ ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਰਮਹਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਏ ਖਿਨੁ ਏਕੁ ਟਿਕਣੁ ਪਾਵਹੀ
Uḏam karahi anek har nām na gāvhī. Bẖarmėh jon asaʼnkẖ mar janmėh āvhī. Pasū pankẖī sail ṯarvar gaṇaṯ kacẖẖū na āv▫e. Bīj bovas bẖog bẖogėh kī▫ā apṇā pāv▫e. Raṯan janam haranṯ jū▫ai parabẖū āp na bẖāvhī. Binvanṯ Nānak bẖarmėh bẖarmā▫e kẖin ek tikaṇ na pāvhī. ||2||
The man makes many efforts, but God's Name he sings not. He wanders about in myriad of existences, dies and is born again. He passes through the life of beasts, birds, stones and trees, whose number cannot be known. As is the seed man sows, so is the fruit he enjoys. He obtains the result of his own acts. The jewel of human life, he loses in the game of gamble and his Lord loves him not. Supplicates Nanak, man wanders in doubt and obtains not rest even for a moment.
ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜੇਹੜੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਉੱਦਮ ਤਾਂ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਹੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਪਦੇ, ਉਹ ਅਣਗਿਣਤ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ ਸਹੇੜ ਕੇ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ) ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ) ਆਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ) ਪਸ਼ੂ ਪੰਛੀ, ਪੱਥਰ, ਰੁੱਖ (ਆਦਿਕ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ) ਕੋਈ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ। (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਚੇਤੇ ਰੱਖ, ਜਿਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ) ਤੂੰ ਬੀ ਬੀਜੇਂਗਾ (ਉਹੋ ਜਿਹੇ) ਫਲ ਖਾਏਂਗਾ। (ਹਰੇਕ ਮਨੁੱਖ)

Now it is not just a line, its whole stanza. In first Vaak, necessity of contemplating on Him is stated, in the second it is stated who fail to do it, get into this cycle. Please note down, “mar Janme”( reborn after death) and “jun asankh(numerous existences)”, why these two words are used together?. Why Guru ji needs to say that “ Mar Janme” “ asankh jun bharmeh(go into numerous existences?. When such things are repeated, it means these are accepted by Guru. Why Dr Baldev Singh thinks otherwise, is beyond my comprehension?
ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਜਿਉ ਆਰਣਿ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾਇ ਭੰਨਿ ਘੜਾਈਐ ਤਿਉ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਵੈ ਭਵਾਈਐ
Sūhī mėhlā 1. Ji▫o āraṇ lohā pā▫e bẖann gẖaṛā▫ī▫ai. Ŧi▫o sākaṯ jonī pā▫e bẖavai bẖavā▫ī▫ai. ||1||
Suhi, 1st Guru. Putting in a furnace, as the iron is melted and refashioned, so is the materialist cast into existences and made to roam and ramble about.
ਆਰਣਿ = ਭੱਠੀ ਵਿਚਭੰਨਿ = ਭੰਨ ਕੇ, ਗਾਲ ਕੇਸਾਕਤੁ = ਰੱਬ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਟੁੱਟਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਮਨੁੱਖ, ਮਾਇਆ-ਵੇੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਜੀਵ ਭਵੈ = ਭਟਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਭੌਂਦਾ ਹੈਭਵਾਈਐ = (ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ) ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ

ਜਿਵੇਂ ਭੱਠੀ ਵਿਚ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾ ਕੇ (ਤੇ) ਗਾਲ ਕੇ (ਨਵੇਂ ਸਿਰੇ) ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਲੋਹੇ ਤੋਂ ਕੰਮ ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੀਆਂ ਚੀਜ਼ਾਂ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ ਜਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ) ਤਿਵੇਂ ਮਾਇਆ-ਵੇੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਜੀਵ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਚੱਕਰ ਲਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਆਖ਼ਿਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਮੇਹਰ ਨਾਲ ਸੁਮਤਿ ਸਿੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ)
Here is Guru Vakas they take inspiration without understanding that actually Guru answers what is poses as question. Read it in full, same meaning emerges. Truth is this, Gurbani does not reject rebirth at all. Also please note it down, who are the subjects of this cycle as per Guru Nanak in the above Guru Vaak? It is “Sakat” who is into Maya but not into God and His praise.
There are many examples more, the facts remains that Gurbani doesn’t reject reincarnation. I myself read Dr Baldev Singh ji, I liked his articles a lot; however, it is totally impossible to agree with him what he says about reincarnation in context of Guru nanak
 

Tejwant Singh

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Sahni ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your response. I wish and hope that I enjoy sharing Gurmat with you. I too have never met Dr. Baldev Singh but unfortunately like you I didn’t enjoy reading his presentation as it couldn’t attach me emotionally with my roots.

I always enjoy Gurmat interaction. Shabad Vichaar which may also include disagreement is a great learning process for me.

Can you elaborate a little about the latter part of your comment above,"it couldn’t attach me emotionally with my roots"? I do not quite get it what you mean by that.

Since we have discussed this topic in another Form, I wouldn’t take much of your time. Let me tell you I am not a scholar but a simple student of Gurbani.

As mentioned in my earlier post, if Gurbani Vichaar was a waste of time, then there would be no need to do Nitnem.:)

As I understand by contemplating gurbani, we must avail this opportunity of human jama to merge back from where we came. I recite daily instructions in Kirtan Sohila ‘sadanhara simriye’.For me, I take it I must surrender to sabd guru to be truthful so that I am entitled for his grace and I am accepted back within the short span of my journey. I have realized without accountability of my deeds alongwith urge to merge back, it is not possible.

Once again you have to explain that to me in lay man's terms. I do not understand what you mean by the above. Please pardon my ignorance.


Now since you have asked for rahao tuk, I have no difficulty in presenting, not one but two rahao tuks in one salok which supports concept of transmigration on page 686-687.
And as suggested I have opened Prof Sahib Singh translation though I find it not to the mark.

No, I did not ask for the RAHAO tuk. What I asked for was the whole Shabad in your own words in English not forgetting what the RAHAO tuk- the nectar of the Shabad means.

Aink jnm BRim iQiq nhI pweI ] krau syvw gur lwgau crn goivMd jI kw mwrgu dyhu jI bqweI ]1] rhwau ] hy siqgurU! AnykW jUnW ivc Btk Btk ky (jUnW qoN bcx dw hor koeI) itkwau nhIN l`Bw [ hux mYN qyrI crnIN Aw ipAw hW, mYN qyrI hI syvw krdw hW, mYƒ prmwqmw (dy imlwp) dw rsqw d`s dy [1[rhwau[
sPl sPl BeI sPl jwqRw ] Awvx jwx rhy imly swDw ]1] rhwau dUjw(hy BweI! gurU dy dr qy ipAW) mnu`Kw jIvn vwlw s&r kwmXwb ho jWdw hY [ gurU ƒ iml ky jnm mrn dy gyV mu`k jWdy hn [1[ rhwau dUjw
The second rahao is addressing it as a journey. My simple question is can journey be one sided?

Somehow, your above did not turn up in Punjabi or in English on my screen. I have no idea why.

So once again, Let us go one Shabad at a time. Please give me in yoru words what the Shabad means to you and how it differs from what Dr. Baldev Singh said in his article.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

japjisahib04

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Dear Jaswant Ji
The teachings of gurbani of sabd guru are the embodiment of Truth thus its understanding and its interpretation can only come from who is become part of it or is in vismad and is feeling pain of separation from its origin and there is a sense of surrender in him.(SGGS.304.16) The scholar research/interpretation can only be acamedic but not mystic experience.

I have a grandson of 20 days. When I observe him I remember a pankti from SGGS rang hasaih rang rovaih chup bhi kar jaeh. He is laughing without any reason and then crying without any reason. What is coming in his mind? Is he connected with his past life? In similar way when one enters into bliss he is laughing and crying without any reason and parvah nahi keesai kairi bajh sachai nahe He cares not for anything except his beloved and this is how I understood as the merger as jyoti jyot smana. As jeo jal mai jal aey khatana teo jyoti sang jyot samana.

As requested I had given you two rahao pankti from one salok which not only support but confirms rebirth. If you are not able to get it in Punjabi kindly go from page 686-16 to 687-12 of SGGS. Since SGGS destroys all rituals dogmas and other prevalent beliefs logically, it is not possible when SGGS quotes on almost all pages of SGGS refernce of rebirth and you are not able to give one pankti which destroys it logically but with your own mat does not accept rebirth.

Best regards
Sahni Mohinder
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Guru Piayare Mohinder Singh Sahni Ji,
Gurfateh.

This is my take on Janams and Joons...
It is rather long article so it comes in two parts.
I am of the opinion that we are born only ONCE..and we have to PASS all the exams HERE.
ALL the Jnams joons are INSIDE US...and as we progress along the GURMATT PATH...live the way of GURBANI..we get rid of the ANIMALS JOONS..ands janams...and attain JEEWAN MULTEE.
Gurbani is FOR THE LIVING..the PRESENT.
What happens to the DEAD..the DEPARTED..where they GO...its a fruitless waste of time...Guru Ji has said as much....Baba bolteh they kahan gayeh ?? who KNOWS ??
First of all the Bhagat kabir Shocker to the Brahmin...

ਜੌ ਤੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣੀ ਜਾਇਆ॥ You are Brahmin..born of a brahmin woman..
ਤਉ ਆਨ ਬਾਟ ਕਾਹੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਇਆ॥ 2॥why didnt you enter another way ?? All Humans born from woman..enter the world the same way...
ਤੁਮ ਕਤ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ, ਹਮ ਕਤ ਸੂਦ॥ You are Barhmin ? I am shudra ? How ??
ਹਮ ਕਤ ਲੋਹੂ, ਤੁਮ ਕਤ ਦੂਧ॥ You are Milk..I am blood ?? How ??
ਰਾਗ ਗਉੜੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਪੰਨਾ ੩੨੪—
It has been the accepted thought that we get JOONS and Janams due to PAST Actions...bad actions..bad joons..janams...Good actions..daan, dharam..good deeds..we get good janam..joon.
Thus it was accepted that the poor SHUDAR was born only to SERVE the High Class BRAHMIN. The Shudar ahs absolutly no other purpose.
Bhagat Kabir Ji questions this....
OH Brahmin..IF you are that special...high class..why didnt you enter this world through a different route. Why are you MILK... and why are we blood..why are you Brahmin and why are we Shudar... Kabir Page 324.

Each and every religion, clergy, pope, mullah, brahmin, pandit, Rabbii has the “OTHER WORLD” in his sights..Promises of easy life in Heaven..and Horrendous punishment in HELL...are the Carrot and Stick approach of them ALL. And all this is said to happen..AFTER DEATH. The most interesting thing about this is....THAT ther is NO PROOF..of what happens after death..no one has seen any Heaven..or any Hell..no one has come back and told about what he became as a result of his deeds...
What does the SGGS say..
Read Bhagat namdev Ji..
ਮੂਏ ਹੂਏ ਜਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੇਹੁਗੇ, ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਇਲਾ॥
ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੨੯੨—
OH Lord..IF you are going to make me FREE (mukt) AFTER i am dead...what do I know about that ?? Of what Practical use is that freedom....when NO ONE alive knows about it.....cant see it...cant learn from it...
We go to school, university..we study hard...we sit for examinations..and we are told we passed or failed....OF what use would be an Examination that advertised our RESULT only after we are DEAD ?? we have to go through life not knowing..we failed or passed...???

What is Bhagat Ji saying..He is asking Waheguru to RELEASE HIM FROM HIS ANIMAL JOON/JANAM..NOW !!! while still alive....Turn him into a real HUMAN BEING..living the high life of a Jeewan Mukt..liberated..free of all bases instincts..animal behaviours...all those Joons and Janams that DIRTY HIS MIND..NOW..in this life..Human LIFE.

Guur nanak ji came..to this world..what did he see ?? what did he conclude ??
Bhai Gurdass Ji says thet Guru nanak Ji saw the Earth and its inhabitants..its society..through a MICRSCOPE....He saw all our faults..wrongdoings..and sought answers. His vision of a Compleat man..a Man of God...a SACHIAR PERSON..a Man of TRUTH...truthful living....
Guur Ji saw that all of us looked like “humans”..BUT animal instincts RULED SUPREME. Read What Guru Arjun ji says about us in Sukhmani Sahib....
Human BODIES..but ANIMAL actions !!!
ਕਰਤੂਤਿ ਪਸੂ ਕੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਾਤਿ॥ Actions of animals..human bodies....
ਲੋਕ ਪਚਾਰਾ ਕਰੈ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤਿ॥ a facade carried on to fool the world
ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮਲੁ ਮਾਇਆ॥ outside bhekh..fake..inside dirt filth of maya
ਛਪਸਿ ਨਾਹਿ ਕਛੁ ਕਰੈ ਛਪਾਇਆ॥ He sees all !!
ਬਾਹਰਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਇਸਨਾਨ॥ Outside..all the ritualistic baths, readings of scriptures, gyaan dhyaan meditations, smadhees, holy pilgrimages, ishnaans, baths
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਆਪੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਸੁਆਨੁ॥ INSIDE US..the GREEDY DOG barks incessantly
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਤਨੁ ਸੁਆਹ॥ INSIDE us the FIRES of jealousy/kaam/lust/anger /Greed......burns.......outside we put holy ashes on our foreheads...
ਗਲਿ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੈਸੇ ਤਰੈ ਅਥਾਹ॥ How to swim across with heavy millstones around our necks
ਜਾ ਕੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਸੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਿ॥ whosoever has the PRABH inside him..is
ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਜਨ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਤਿ॥ 5 in real peace..sehaj..calmness serenity....
ਰਾਗ ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ ੨੬੭— 267
What is Guru nanak ji saying in Slok sahaskirtees...the exact same thing..we are DOGS, SWINE, DONKEYS.CROWS....SNAKES..in HUMAN SHAPE!!
CURSED is such human birth !!!
ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੀਣਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ, ਧ੍ਰਿਗੰਤ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਸਟਣਹ॥
ਕੂਕਰਹ ਸੂਕਰਹ ਗਰਧਭਹ, ਕਾਕਹ ਸਰਪਨਹ ਤੁਲਿ ਖਲਹ॥ 33॥
ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੫੬— 1356
Meaning..a human who is sans the teachings of the Satguru/God..is like a dog, snake, crow or donkey. What distinguishes us from the Animals...its not only the body..after all the body functions are similar..we need food, we need sex, we need love and comforting, shelter....BUT surely a Human has other qualities that keep him apart ?? These are the GURMATT..the way of life that takes him higher..reach new heights...
From DAY ONE..the Human has been regularly cheated by those professing “religion”...the pandits the mullahs the Gyanis..the priests, the shamans, the holy men...and living in a fools paradise..we have been only too happy to listen to these Snake oil salesmen...to buy their heavens and hells and leave thm in charge of our life and decisions....Once a small boy was sent o market to sell the family’s weeks old kid.On the way he met a group of tricksters who decided to cheat him of the kid. First oen approached him and said..boy..why are you carrying this puppy . This is not a puppy..its a kid and my mother told me to sell it in the market. OH no..its a puppy..your mother played a trick on you...if you dont beleive me..ask the next traveller. And so the second trickster arrived and asked the boy..why are you carrying a puppy ? by now the boy was confused...am i really carrying a puppy ? By the time the third trickster appeared and told the boy about the puppy he was carrying.....he had decided to throw away the “puppy” and head back home....convinced his mother made mistake and gave him a puppy instead of the kid. The Tricksters collected the kid and made off.
Human beings have also been taken in by such trickery for millinia....they have been giving alms, daan, donations, offerings...etc to shamans,pandits, churches, mandirs, brahmins, gurdwaras...to ENSURE safe arrival in heavens..rebirth in good joons..janams..as rich persons..and not legless, armless cripples, blind, apahajs. Such BIRTH DEFECTS are the most commonly repeated..”BAD KARMA...bad deeds in past janams..result...and it WORKS !! Just to escape being reborn a cripple..many donate Cows to Brahmins..others give alms to beggars..sadhus...clothes to Gyanis...
Havent you all heard the famous story of the man whose HAND was cut off at BIRTH...because in his PREVIOUS JANAM..he had pointed out to a BUTCHER..the direction the cow had run off to..I have heard this ridiculous tale from many sants baabs kathakaars ragis...This SADHU was sitting in Meditation when a cow which had broken its rope was fleeing. The Butcher was not far behind...and when he asked the meditating sadhu..which way his cow ran...the sadhu just POINTED with one finger...DEKHO SANGAT JI..all the YEARS of meditation.all the good deeds..wiped out with just one moment of pointing in the direction of the cow...and since the cow was slaughtered due to this bad deed of the sadhu..in his next Janam..he was BORN with ONLY ONE HAND !! SEE..one finger..leads to entire hand lost !! Waheguru !!
Just imagine what will happen to BUTCHERS of cows ??? ( what about butchers of HUMANS..the likes of KPGill ?? sadly no SANT ever touches that subject..human butchers are TABOO..na bacha..eh swaal na puchho...)

Gur mantar heenas jo prannee...is very clear...a Human who has no sikhia..teachings..of his Guru..who has no instructions to follow, to lead a higher life..a better life as human....is a DOG in human body..always BARKING...aimlessly..always Laalchee..greedy....always hungry...lobhi...a dog is famous for being a lobhi...even a child has heard the famous story of the dog and his bone crossing a river..where the Greedy Dog looks at his reflection in the water and BARKS to get the other dog’s bone...and loses his own...to the river.
Men like that are “DOGS” in human body. There is NOT going to be another Janam as a DOG....the DOG is already LIVING inside the Human !! his Kutta JOON..Janam is HERE and NOW !!!

Part two follows .
 

Archived_Member5

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Man Jeete Jag Jeet – He who hath conquered his will, mastered his mind and gains control of his own thinking, emotions and thereby environment has gained salvation and mukhti. We pass through many phases in our volatile and inclement life. Through many trials and tribulations that with a strong mind are passed through easily, but with loss of faith and a disillusioned mind become as threatening to our very will to live, to exist.

Look about you with a clear, well balanced mind and you will see the world continuously changing, actually changes not. The monotonous grindstone of the wheel of life turns whether we are jubilant or woebegone. That is truth. Governed with reason and a calm mind the days pass by with understanding of the frailty of others as vulnerable to the travails of living as we.

On dark days the mind becomes dangerously introverted, into a cave of apathy, pain and emotional turmoil. Each remark, each action that may be dismissed in stronger mindset is received as a personal affront, as a campaign of hatred against our person, our happiness. The blessed may have a sahai, a friend to reason the contrary, many do not and fall into a pit of despair and unwarranted and excessive overreaction and distress, thus exacerbating situations or emotional lows that may otherwise be passed through quite effortlessly with applied logic and reason.

Guru Nanaks writings as with all great minds and philosophers of history passes through many personal phases, trials and testing turbulence. His writings may appear duly contradictory at times because of his varying mindset and overview of what is life, the world and existence, as with all who gain mortal life to live as exposed human beings, vulnerable to the elements both real and emotionally sensed.

Man is offered a choice though at times it may not seem to appear so. He can maintain his composure and deal with life intellectually, with applied rationale, of fall prey and victim to each change and trial, lamenting his pain and tortured angst. Maybe we were in swarg, and upon looking down into the world, upon the suffering and torture of man, felt a need to descend to spend a lifetimes at the mercy of the prevailing fate, only to rue this act once caught here in a web of deception and illusion beyond our control and realisation of our Supreme Waheguru and creator.

Jah Mushkil ho art bari, ta Nanak naam tere sang sahai– when life becomes unbearable and torment great, the cooling name of Nanak guides and avails.

Sometimes when the walls of pain blind us in the fog of illusory deception we lose sense of this Holy Spirit and Light guiding from within. We all undergo times when if not entirely losing faith, we become pained and angst ridden, feeling remiss and adrift in a happy and contented world. To admit we all undergo such dark times assist all attaining peace and liberation whilst living than an expectation of a saviour or route of escape by a messenger of mercy, methinks.

:idea: :work:
 
May 24, 2008
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Respected members, as I stated earlier, Mohinder Sahni is right in pointing out Dr Baldev Singh’s huge misunderstanding of Guru Nanak’s concept of “rebirth of the soul”. He thinks the meaning of “purble”(previous) is taken incorrectly, I avoided those Guru Vakas where “purble” word is used just to prove that Dr Singh ji is ignoring the repeated truth in Sree Guru Granth Sahib. Here are the following Guru Vakas, if some want to read the complete Shabad they can as page numbers are also given. I also provided Dr Sahib Singh’s interpretation here which is also ignored by Dr. Singh Ji

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ਜਨਮਜਨਮਕੀਇਸੁਮਨਕਉ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਾਲਾ ਹੋਆ ਸਿਆਹੁ ਖੰਨਲੀ ਧੋਤੀ ਉਜਲੀ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸਉ ਧੋਵਣਿ ਪਾਹੁ (SGGS651)
Salok mėhlā 3. Janam janam kī is man ka▫o mal lāgī kālā ho▫ā si▫āhu. Kẖanlī ḏẖoṯī ujlī na hova▫ī je sa▫o ḏẖovaṇ pāhu.
Slok 3rd Guru. The scum of so many births is attached to this soul and it has become pitch black. The oilman's rag turns not white by washing, even through it be washed a hundred times.
ਖੰਨਲੀ = ਤੇਲੀ ਦੀ ਕੋਹਲੂ ਵਿਚ ਫੇਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਲੀਰਧੋਵਣਿ ਪਾਹੁ = ਧੋਣ ਦਾ ਜਤਨ ਕਰੋ

ਕਈਜਨਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਇਸ ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਮੈਲ ਲੱਗੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਇਹ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਕਾਲਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਪਿਆ ਹੈ (ਚਿੱਟਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ), ਜਿਵੇਂ ਤੇਲੀ ਦੀ ਲੀਰ ਧੋਤਿਆਂ ਚਿੱਟੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦੀ, ਭਾਵੇਂਸੌ ਵਾਰੀ ਧੋਣ ਦਾ ਜਤਨ ਕਰੋ
If there is no rebirth, why its”Janam Janam”, why not “Is Janam”, janam janam is an expression showing plural sense of janam.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਉਲਟੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਤਿ ਬਦਲਾਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੈਲੁ ਲਗਈ ਨਾਫਿਰਿਜੋਨੀਪਾਹੁ
Gur parsādī jīvaṯ marai ultī hovai maṯ baḏlāhu. Nānak mail na lag▫ī nā fir jonī pāhu. ||1||
By Guru's grace, remains dead in life and his nature is altered and turned and away from the world. Nanak, no impurity attaches to him then and he falls not into the womb again.
ਹੇਨਾਨਕ! ਜੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ ਮਨ ਜੀਊਂਦਾ ਹੀ ਮਰੇ ਤੇ ਮਤਿ ਬਦਲ ਕੇ (ਮਾਇਆ ਵਲੋਂ)ਉਲਟ ਹੋ ਜਾਏ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਲ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੱਗਦੀ ਤੇ ਫਿਰ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ

If there is no rebirth, why”Fir” (Again”) is used here? Isn’t Guru talking about a soul that doesn’t again in to another existence if with the blessings of Guru one eliminates ego? Certainly he does.
SGGS 704
ਉਦਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਾਵਹੀ ਭਰਮਹਿਜੋਨਿਅਸੰਖਮਰਿਜਨਮਹਿਆਵਹੀ ਪਸੂ ਪੰਖੀ ਸੈਲ ਤਰਵਰ ਗਣਤ ਕਛੂ ਆਵਏ ਬੀਜੁ ਬੋਵਸਿ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਕੀਆ ਅਪਣਾ ਪਾਵਏ ਰਤਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਹਾਰੰਤ ਜੂਐ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪਿ ਭਾਵਹੀ ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਰਮਹਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਏ ਖਿਨੁ ਏਕੁ ਟਿਕਣੁ ਪਾਵਹੀ
Uḏam karahi anek har nām na gāvhī. Bẖarmėh jon asaʼnkẖ mar janmėh āvhī. Pasū pankẖī sail ṯarvar gaṇaṯ kacẖẖū na āv▫e. Bīj bovas bẖog bẖogėh kī▫ā apṇā pāv▫e. Raṯan janam haranṯ jū▫ai parabẖū āp na bẖāvhī. Binvanṯ Nānak bẖarmėh bẖarmā▫e kẖin ek tikaṇ na pāvhī. ||2||
The man makes many efforts, but God's Name he sings not. He wanders about in myriad of existences, dies and is born again. He passes through the life of beasts, birds, stones and trees, whose number cannot be known. As is the seed man sows, so is the fruit he enjoys. He obtains the result of his own acts. The jewel of human life, he loses in the game of gamble and his Lord loves him not. Supplicates Nanak, man wanders in doubt and obtains not rest even for a moment.
ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜੇਹੜੇ ਮਨੁੱਖਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਉੱਦਮ ਤਾਂ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਹੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਪਦੇ, ਉਹਅਣਗਿਣਤ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ ਸਹੇੜ ਕੇ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ) ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ) ਆਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ) ਪਸ਼ੂ ਪੰਛੀ, ਪੱਥਰ, ਰੁੱਖ (ਆਦਿਕਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ) ਕੋਈ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ। (ਹੇਭਾਈ! ਚੇਤੇ ਰੱਖ, ਜਿਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ) ਤੂੰ ਬੀ ਬੀਜੇਂਗਾ (ਉਹੋ ਜਿਹੇ) ਫਲ ਖਾਏਂਗਾ। (ਹਰੇਕਮਨੁੱਖ)

Now it is not just a line, its whole stanza. In first Vaak, necessity of contemplating on Him is stated, in the second it is stated who fail to do it, get into this cycle. Please note down, “mar Janme”( reborn after death) and “jun asankh(numerous existences)”, why these two words are used together?. Why Guru ji needs to say that “ Mar Janme” “ asankh jun bharmeh(go into numerous existences?. When such things are repeated, it means these are accepted by Guru. Why Dr Baldev Singh thinks otherwise, is beyond my comprehension?
ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਜਿਉ ਆਰਣਿ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾਇ ਭੰਨਿ ਘੜਾਈਐ ਤਿਉ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਜੋਨੀਪਾਇਭਵੈਭਵਾਈਐ
Sūhī mėhlā 1. Ji▫o āraṇ lohā pā▫e bẖann gẖaṛā▫ī▫ai. Ŧi▫o sākaṯ jonī pā▫e bẖavai bẖavā▫ī▫ai. ||1||
Suhi, 1st Guru. Putting in a furnace, as the iron is melted and refashioned, so is the materialist cast into existences and made to roam and ramble about.
ਆਰਣਿ = ਭੱਠੀ ਵਿਚਭੰਨਿ = ਭੰਨ ਕੇ, ਗਾਲ ਕੇਸਾਕਤੁ = ਰੱਬ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਟੁੱਟਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਮਨੁੱਖ, ਮਾਇਆ-ਵੇੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਜੀਵਭਵੈ = ਭਟਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਭੌਂਦਾ ਹੈਭਵਾਈਐ = (ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ) ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ

ਜਿਵੇਂਭੱਠੀ ਵਿਚ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾ ਕੇ (ਤੇ) ਗਾਲ ਕੇ (ਨਵੇਂ ਸਿਰੇ) ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਲੋਹੇ ਤੋਂ ਕੰਮਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੀਆਂ ਚੀਜ਼ਾਂ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ ਜਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ) ਤਿਵੇਂ ਮਾਇਆ-ਵੇੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਜੀਵ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ,ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਚੱਕਰ ਲਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇਆਖ਼ਿਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਮੇਹਰ ਨਾਲ ਸੁਮਤਿ ਸਿੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ)
Here is Guru Vakas they take inspiration without understanding that actually Guru answers what is poses as question. Read it in full, same meaning emerges. Truth is this, Gurbani does not reject rebirth at all. Also please note it down, who are the subjects of this cycle as per Guru Nanak in the above Guru Vaak? It is “Sakat” who is into Maya but not into God and His praise.
There are many examples more, the facts remains that Gurbani doesn’t reject reincarnation. I myself read Dr Baldev Singh ji, I liked his articles a lot; however, it is totally impossible to agree with him what he says about reincarnation in context of Guru nanak
I fully agree with u pk ji . My heartiest applauds to u . I had read HUM HINDU NAHIN by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha Ji wherein he had fully accepted this concept of 8.4million births ( rebirths )/ 84lakh jonis . He even went to the extent to defend it as not UNIQUE to Hinduism but also prevalant among other civilizations of the world . Somehow I can't with my limited understanding comprehend with this that why we r hell bent on disagreeing with something as basic as transmigration of soul . My apologies to anybody who may have been offended .
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The question that should concern us more...is WHAT WE DO AS HUMAN BEINGS.
The "other Joons/animals/etc" are also created by the CREATOR....BUT the SGGS is WRITTEN FOR US..the HUMAN BEINGS...to READ, UNDERSTAND and FOLLOW....and Become Better and Better and Better until we are SO "HUMAN" that we look like DEVTAS in HUMAN FORM..and NOT dogs/cats/monkeys/donkeys/snakes..in HUMAN FORM.

THAT is the BASIC LESSON the GURUS CAME to teach US...THAT is the REASON why Gurbani Emphasises..MANUKHA JANAM EK BAAR..Gobind Milan ki "EH" teri bareah....etc etc DONT WASTE this ONE CHANCE..etc. etc.

IF a student comes to my class and I am teaching Gurbani..but he continues to shout that he wants to learn about "how and why dogs"..or the Hows and whys of Insects....or a Doctor is teaching his Students to operate on a Hernia..and the student keesp on interrupting.. Can you teach me How to read Gurmukhi ??"..IMHO THAT is the situation we are IN....Guru Ji wants us to concentrate on HUMAN JANAM and escape REBIRTHS....BUT we want to discuss REBIRTHS and whys and hows..BUT NOT what Guru Ji wrote the SGGS for.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

pk70

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The question that should concern us more...is WHAT WE DO AS HUMAN BEINGS.
The "other Joons/animals/etc" are also created by the CREATOR....BUT the SGGS is WRITTEN FOR US..the HUMAN BEINGS...to READ, UNDERSTAND and FOLLOW....and Become Better and Better and Better until we are SO "HUMAN" that we look like DEVTAS in HUMAN FORM..and NOT dogs/cats/monkeys/donkeys/snakes..in HUMAN FORM.

THAT is the BASIC LESSON the GURUS CAME to teach US...THAT is the REASON why Gurbani Emphasises..MANUKHA JANAM EK BAAR..Gobind Milan ki "EH" teri bareah....etc etc DONT WASTE this ONE CHANCE..etc. etc.

IF a student comes to my class and I am teaching Gurbani..but he continues to shout that he wants to learn about "how and why dogs"..or the Hows and whys of Insects....or a Doctor is teaching his Students to operate on a Hernia..and the student keesp on interrupting.. Can you teach me How to read Gurmukhi ??"..IMHO THAT is the situation we are IN....Guru Ji wants us to concentrate on HUMAN JANAM and escape REBIRTHS....BUT we want to discuss REBIRTHS and whys and hows..BUT NOT what Guru Ji wrote the SGGS for.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Respected Gyani Jio
Guru Fateh ! How are you?
I missed SPN for a couple of weeks, glad to read your recent posts today.
I am totally surprised to read your above post. At the end of your post, there is rolling eyes symbols that make me roll my eyes. With all due respect, now my question to you is this
Are we discussing only what Gurbani teaches us in context of becoming better or also Dr Baldev Singh Ji’s own views that says Guru Nanak rejects rebirths or incardination?
The thread started by you with his article, Mohinder Singh Sahni ji questioned Dr Sahib’s claim about rejection of rebirths by Guru Nanak; I gave many examples of Guru Vakas that verify Gurus faith in rebirths. It is a part of discussion, how we can accept Dr Sahib Ji’s own coined statement Guru when Guru is very clear in this context? There is no pick and choose in Gurbani, whatever is there must be accepted without overwriting Guru as Dr Baldev Sin gh ji did. Nothing is wrong with rebirth concept, pure reasoning questions the existence of Waheguru too, we dont honor that but accept what our Guru says about Him:)

Regards
G Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

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I fully agree with u pk ji . My heartiest applauds to u . I had read HUM HINDU NAHIN by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha Ji wherein he had fully accepted this concept of 8.4million births ( rebirths )/ 84lakh jonis . He even went to the extent to defend it as not UNIQUE to Hinduism but also prevalant among other civilizations of the world . Somehow I can't with my limited understanding comprehend with this that why we r hell bent on disagreeing with something as basic as transmigration of soul . My apologies to anybody who may have been offended .

Dalbirk ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your are confused between acknowledgement and acceptance. Our Gurus acknowledged that Hindus believe in reincarnation. Guru Nanak acknowledged Hindus wearing and believing in Janeius.He also acknowledged that Hindus believe when they throw water towards the Sun , it reaches it. However they never accepted all to be true for Sikhi. If one reads Gurbani after the acknowledgement of the beliefs in re- births in Hinduism, our Gurus mention that for a person on a Sikhi marg, reincarnation ceases to exist. It is only a belief which can change anytime.It is not a fact. If it were a fact then our Gurus would have mentioned what they were in their previous births. And you own ancestors would have come back to tell you all about it.

So, I do not think you have offended anyone but failed to understand the difference between acknowledgement and acceptance, belief and fact. Sikhi is based on reasoning, not on any blind faith.

Tejwant Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Most Respected PK70 Ji,
Gurfateh.

Welcome Back Ji..you may not be aware how much you are missed.

I have not replied directly to either Your posts or Veer Ji Sahni jis posts..not because I am not interested/unable/or any other reason..simply because i know where you and sahni ji are coming from.
I also know from where Dr baldev Singh ji si coming from and what he is trying to put forward...
Look at it this Way.... For ME gurbani si agadh BODH..it has got so much more than i can ever understand...i have been able to just skim the surface so far....others may be a little deeper..but thats about it...NO ONE has been able to search the very BOTTOM of this ocean..except those who wrote it.
I dont pretend to know all the answers..and dont pretend to know nothing... I am somewhere in between...on the Path...

I teach the Simple Gurbani to Simple folks...who have "simple questions" and I provide the simple answers.
I teach "simpe Maths...add minus..divide..multiply... and not the Einstein Theory of relativity..or Big bang theory etc or how the light curve in a hubble photo cna be calculated to show a hidden star existed there billions of years ago.. which can be argued back and forth until the end of time. When my students ask me..Gyani ji IF the sun is bigger than the Moon..why is it about the same size when we watch the eclipse...it doesnt look millions of times bigger..I know and everybody knows the answer...but its pointless ...IF DELHI is so much nearer why cant i see it from my kotha while i can see the sun..supposedly millions of miles further than Delhi..etc etc.

My "purpose" in Life is to Live the Gurbani and make it seem REAL in terms of practical life to my students...make them see "what they can see" rather than be absolutley correct and make them see what they "should see"...

How can I answer How a DOG is supposed to get muktee ?? a dog cannot read Gurbani..can it understand kiratn..can it get muktee if t stays at the Gurdawra ?? WHY God didnt make any effort to write"dog gurbani"..? These are questions that do come up..children ask them..adults woudl ask them too if they ddnt feel so stupid ?? Do dogs have prophets..why not ?? where is it written ?? when will their tiem for muktee come...sakhis of Gurus giving muktee to animals by killing them..why >?? How about the sakhi about baba nand Singhs dog..that got muktee by eating his jhoothee roti.....? is it true ? how why where in Gurbani is it...etc etc. why that particular dog..and only one ?/

My daily JOB is to read..understand up to my own level..search what others have understood..collate and put it to my students..and we all chip in and discuss...everyone exhausts all his know-how..and we go home happy and satisfied..UP TO A POINT. Thats is the very best i can accomplish and I am happy.

I guarantee YOU and sahni ji..tand Tejwant Ji.....that i DO READ and try to Understand what each poster writes..i take what is Gurmatt ( to my tuchh budhee) and leave the rest...till maybe the day comes when Guru Jis Kirpa drishtee descends and i can "see" some more...GYAAN. I donot beleive in being stubborn that only i know all...if i realise a mistake..i will be the first to admit it..no harm in it.

No offense intended to any...I graciously ACCEPT all as helping my journey towards GYAAN.:welcome::welcome:
 
May 24, 2008
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Dalbirk ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your are confused between acknowledgement and acceptance. Our Gurus acknowledged that Hindus believe in reincarnation. Guru Nanak acknowledged Hindus wearing and believing in Janeius.He also acknowledged that Hindus believe when they throw water towards the Sun , it reaches it. However they never accepted all to be true for Sikhi. If one reads Gurbani after the acknowledgement of the beliefs in re- births in Hinduism, our Gurus mention that for a person on a Sikhi marg, reincarnation ceases to exist. It is only a belief which can change anytime.It is not a fact. If it were a fact then our Gurus would have mentioned what they were in their previous births. And you own ancestors would have come back to tell you all about it.

So, I do not think you have offended anyone but failed to understand the difference between acknowledgement and acceptance, belief and fact. Sikhi is based on reasoning, not on any blind faith.

Tejwant Singh

Dear Tejwant Ji ,
Can u translate the following Shabad otherwise ? Here I'm giving u this Shabad from page 1019-1020 of SGGS using Prof.Sahib Singh Ji's translation .IMHO in this Shabad , Guru Sahib defines who die & born again & Guru Sahib is clearly accepting rebirth ( though 84 lacs lives may be just a symbolic number )


SGGS 1019-20


ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ਬਿਰਖੈ ਹੇਠਿ ਸਭਿ ਜੰਤ ਇਕਠੇ ਇਕਿ ਤਤੇ ਇਕਿ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਮਿਠੇ ਅਸਤੁ ਉਦੋਤੁ ਭਇਆ ਉਠਿ ਚਲੇ ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਅਉਧ ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ ॥੧॥
Mārū mėhlā 5. Birkẖai heṯẖ sabẖ janṯ ikṯẖe. Ik ṯaṯe ik bolan miṯẖe. Asaṯ uḏoṯ bẖa▫i▫ā uṯẖ cẖale ji▫o ji▫o a▫oḏẖ vihāṇī▫ā. ||1||
Maru 5th Guru. Under the tree of the world, all the beings have gathered together. Some are hot-tempered and some speak with sweet voice. When the sun rises at the end of night, they get up and march off, when their life ends.
ਬਿਰਖ = ਰੁੱਖ। ਸਭਿ = ਸਾਰੇ। ਇਕਿ = {ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਇਕ' ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ}। ਤਤੇ = ਖਰ੍ਹਵੇ, ਤਿੱਖੇ। ਬੋਲਨਿ = ਬੋਲਦੇ ਹਨ। ਅਸਤੁ = ਡੁੱਬਾ ਹੋਇਆ (ਸੂਰਜ)। ਉਦੋਤੁ ਭਇਆ = ਉਦੈ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਅਕਾਸ਼ ਵਿਚ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਉਠਿ = ਉੱਠ ਕੇ। ਅਉਧ = ਉਮਰ। ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ = ਬੀਤ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।੧।

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਵੇਂ ਸੂਰਜ ਡੁੱਬਣ ਵੇਲੇ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਪੰਛੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਰੁੱਖ ਉਤੇ ਆ ਇਕੱਠੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਇਸ ਆਕਾਸ਼-ਰੁੱਖ ਹੇਠ ਸਾਰੇ ਜੀਵ-ਜੰਤ ਆ ਇਕੱਠੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ, ਕਈ ਖਰ੍ਹਵੇ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਈ ਮਿੱਠੇ ਬੋਲ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਹਨ। ਡੁੱਬਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਸੂਰਜ ਜਦੋਂ ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਵਿਚ ਮੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ (ਪੰਛੀ ਰੁੱਖ ਉਤੋਂ) ਉੱਠ ਕੇ ਉੱਡ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ (ਤਿਵੇਂ ਹੀ) ਜਿਉਂ ਜਿਉਂ (ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀ) ਉਮਰ ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ (ਪੰਛੀਆਂ ਵਾਂਗ ਇਥੋਂ ਕੂਚ ਕਰ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ)।੧।


ਪਾਪ ਕਰੇਦੜ ਸਰਪਰ ਮੁਠੇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲਿ ਫੜੇ ਫੜਿ ਕੁਠੇ ਦੋਜਕਿ ਪਾਏ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੈ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੈ ਬਾਣੀਆ ॥੨॥
Pāp kareḏaṛ sarpar muṯẖe. Ajrā▫īl faṛe faṛ kuṯẖe. Ḏojak pā▫e sirjaṇhārai lekẖā mangai bāṇī▫ā. ||2||
They who commit sins, are assuredly plundered. Azrail the mymidon of death, seizes and tortures them to death. They are cast into hell by the creator and the Righteous judge calls them to account.
ਕਰੇਦੜ = ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ। ਸਰਪਰ = ਜ਼ਰੂਰ। ਮੁਠੇ = ਮੁੱਠੈ, ਲੁੱਟੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ ਲੁਟਾ ਬੈਠਦੇ ਹਨ। ਅਜਰਾਈਲਿ = ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਨੇ, ਮੌਤ ਦੇ ਫ਼ਰਿਸ਼ਤੇ ਨੇ {ਨੋਟ: ਇਹ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਕਿਸੇ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਦੇ ਪਰਥਾਇ ਹੈ}। ਫੜੇ ਫੜਿ = ਫੜਿ ਫੜਿ, ਫੜ ਕੇ ਫੜ ਕੇ, ਫੜ ਫੜ ਕੇ। ਕੁਠੇ = ਕੁੱਠੇ, ਕੁਹ ਸੁੱਟੇ। ਦੋਜਕਿ = ਦੋਜ਼ਕ ਵਿਚ। ਮੰਗੈ = ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹੈ {ਇਕ-ਵਚਨ}। ਬਾਣੀਆ = ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦਾ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਧਰਮਰਾਜ।੨।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਇਥੇ ਪਾਪ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਜੀਵ (ਆਪਣੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ) ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਲੁਟਾ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਾਪ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੌਤ ਦਾ ਫ਼ਰਿਸ਼ਤਾ ਫੜ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਕੁਹੀ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਇਹ ਯਕੀਨ ਜਾਣੋ ਕਿ ਅਜਿਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ) ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਨੇ ਦੋਜ਼ਕ ਵਿਚ ਪਾ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਧਰਮਰਾਜ (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦਾ) ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹੈ।੨।


ਸੰਗਿ ਕੋਈ ਭਈਆ ਬੇਬਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਵਞੇਸਾ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮ ਜਾਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਤਿਲ ਪੀੜੇ ਜਿਉ ਘਾਣੀਆ ॥੩॥
Sang na ko▫ī bẖa▫ī▫ā bebā. Māl joban ḏẖan cẖẖod vañesā. Karaṇ karīm na jāṯo karṯā ṯil pīṛe ji▫o gẖāṇī▫ā. ||3||
No brother or sister accompanies them. Leaving behind their property, youth and wealth they march off. They know not their kind and Beneficent Creator Lord and shall be pressed like the basketful of sesame.
ਸੰਗਿ = (ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਲ) ਨਾਲ। ਭਈਆ = ਭਰਾ। ਬੇਬਾ = ਭੈਣ। ਜੋਬਨੁ = ਜਵਾਨੀ। ਛੋਡਿ = ਛੱਡ ਕੇ। ਵਞੇਸਾ = ਤੁਰ ਪਏਗਾ। ਕਰੀਮ = ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ। ਕਰਣ ਕਰਤਾ = ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਰਚਨਹਾਰ। ਜਾਤੋ = ਜਾਣਿਆ, ਸਾਂਝ ਪਾਈ। ਘਾਣੀ = ਕੋਲ੍ਹੂ ਵਿਚ ਪੀੜਨ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਇਕ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੋਗੇ ਪਾਏ ਹੋਏ ਤਿਲ।੩।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਜਗਤ ਤੋਂ ਕੂਚ ਕਰਨ ਵੇਲੇ) ਨਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਭਰਾ ਨਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਭੈਣ ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਜੀਵ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ਮਾਲ, ਧਨ, ਜਵਾਨੀ-ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ ਇੱਥੋਂ ਚਲਾ ਜਾਇਗਾ। ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਨੇ ਜਗਤ ਰਚਨਹਾਰ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਿੰਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਈ, ਉਹ (ਦੁੱਖਾਂ ਵਿਚ) ਇਉਂ ਪੀੜੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਤਿਲਾਂ ਦੀ ਘਾਣੀ।੩।


ਖੁਸਿ ਖੁਸਿ ਲੈਦਾ ਵਸਤੁ ਪਰਾਈ ਵੇਖੈ ਸੁਣੇ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਲਬਿ ਪਇਆ ਖਾਤ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਅਗਲੀ ਗਲ ਜਾਣੀਆ ॥੪॥
Kẖus kẖus laiḏā vasaṯ parā▫ī. vekẖai suṇe ṯerai nāl kẖuḏā▫ī. Ḏunī▫ā lab pa▫i▫ā kẖāṯ anḏar aglī gal na jāṇī▫ā.. ||4||
Happily, happily snatches thou other's goods, but God who is with thee, sees and hears thee. Through worldly avarice, thou has fallen into a pit and know not the thing of the future.
ਖੁਸਿ ਖੁਸਿ = ਖੋਹ ਕੇ ਖੋਹ ਕੇ, ਖੋਹ ਖੋਹ ਕੇ। ਪਰਾਈ = ਬਿਗਾਨੀ। ਵਸਤੁ = ਚੀਜ਼। ਖੁਦਾਈ = ਖ਼ੁਦਾ, ਰੱਬ। ਦੁਨੀਆ ਲਬਿ = ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਲੱਬ ਵਿਚ; ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ (ਸੁਆਦ ਦੇ) ਚਸਕੇ ਵਿਚ। ਖਾਤ = ਟੋਆ। ਗਲ = ਗੱਲ। ਅਗਲੀ = ਅਗਾਂਹ ਵਾਪਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ।੪।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਤੂੰ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਮਾਲ-ਧਨ ਖੋਹ ਖੋਹ ਕੇ ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈਂ, ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਰੱਬ (ਤੇਰੀ ਹਰੇਕ ਕਰਤੂਤ ਨੂੰ) ਵੇਖਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇਰੇ ਹਰੇਕ ਬੋਲ ਨੂੰ) ਸੁਣਦਾ ਹੈ। ਤੂੰ ਦੁਨੀਆ (ਦੇ ਸੁਆਦਾਂ) ਦੇ ਚਸਕੇ ਵਿਚ ਫਸਿਆ ਪਿਆ ਹੈਂ (ਮਾਨੋ ਡੂੰਘੇ) ਟੋਏ ਵਿਚ ਡਿੱਗਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈਂ। ਅਗਾਂਹ ਵਾਪਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਗੱਲ ਨੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ।੪।


ਜਮਿ ਜਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਮਰੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਸਜਾਇ ਪਇਆ ਦੇਸਿ ਲੰਮੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਤਿਸੈ ਜਾਣੀ ਅੰਧਾ ਤਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਹੈ ਪਰਾਣੀਆ ॥੫॥
Jam jam marai marai fir jammai. Bahuṯ sajā▫e pa▫i▫ā ḏes lammai. Jin kīṯā ṯisai na jāṇī anḏẖā ṯā ḏukẖ sahai parāṇī▫ā. ||5||
Thou shall be repeatedly born and die and be born again. thou shall suffer much punishment on thy way to the distant country. The blind mortal knows not Him who made him, wherefore he shall suffer pain,
ਜਮਿ = ਜੰਮਿ, ਜੰਮ ਕੇ। ਜਮਿ ਜਮਿ ਮਰੈ = ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੰਮ ਕੇ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ) ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸਜਾਇ = ਸਜ਼ਾ, ਦੰਡ। ਦੇਸਿ ਲੰਮੈ = ਲੰਮੇ ਦੇਸ ਵਿਚ, (ਮਰਨ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦੇ) ਲੰਮੇ ਪੈਂਡੇ ਵਿਚ। ਜਿਨਿ = ਜਿਸ (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ) ਨੇ। ਕੀਤਾ = ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ। ਅੰਧਾ = (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ) ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ (ਹੋਇਆ ਮਨੁੱਖ)। ਤਾ = ਤਾਂ, ਤਾਂਹੀਏਂ। ਸਹੈ = ਸਹਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪਰਾਣੀਆ = ਪਰਾਣੀ, ਜੀਵ।੫।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਦੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ) ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ (ਹੋ ਕੇ) ਉਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਂਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਂਦਾ ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦੋਂ ਇਹ (ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦਾ) ਦੁੱਖ ਸਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਜ਼ਾ ਮਿਲਦੀ ਹੈ, ਇਹ (ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦੇ) ਲੰਮੇ ਪੈਂਡੇ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੰਮ ਕੇ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ) ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੫।


ਖਾਲਕ ਥਾਵਹੁ ਭੁਲਾ ਮੁਠਾ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬੁਰਾ ਰੁਠ ਤੁਠਾ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਸਬੂਰੀ ਸੰਤੁ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਵਤੈ ਆਪਣ ਭਾਣੀਆ ॥੬॥
Kẖālak thāvhu bẖulā muṯẖā. Ḏunī▫ā kẖel burā ruṯẖ ṯuṯẖā. Siḏak sabūrī sanṯ na mili▫o vaṯai āpaṇ bẖāṇī▫ā. ||6||
Forgetting his Creator, man is ruined. The play of the world is bad The mortal is sometimes sad and sometimes happy. To learn from him the lesson of faith and contentment, the mortal meets not the saint and wanders as it pleases him.
ਖਾਲਕ = ਖ਼ਾਲਕ, ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ। ਥਾਵਹੁ = ਥਾਂ ਤੋਂ, ਵੱਲੋਂ। ਭੁਲਾ = ਭੁੱਲਾ, ਖੁੰਝਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ। ਮੁਠਾ = ਠੱਗਿਆ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਖੇਲੁ = ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ, ਜਾਦੂ ਦੀ ਖੇਡ। ਬੁਰਾ = ਭੈੜਾ। ਰੁਠ = ਰੁੱਠਾ, ਰੁੱਸਿਆ। ਤੁਠਾ = ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ ਹੋਇਆ। ਸਿਦਕੁ = ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ, ਤਸੱਲੀ। ਸਬੂਰੀ = ਸਬਰ, ਰਜੇਵਾਂ। ਸੰਤੁ = ਗੁਰੂ। ਵਤੈ = ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਆਪਣ ਭਾਣੀਆ = ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਮਰਜ਼ੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ।੬।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦਾ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਦਾ ਮੁਰੀਦ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਲੋਂ ਨਾਹ ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ ਹੈ ਨਾਹ ਰਜੇਵਾਂ; ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਖੁੰਝਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ ਲੁਟਾ ਬੈਠਦਾ ਹੈ; ਇਹ ਜਗਤ-ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਬੁਰਾ (ਖ਼ੁਆਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ), ਕਦੇ (ਮਾਇਆ ਗੁਆਚਣ ਤੇ ਇਹ) ਘਬਰਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਕਦੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਿਲਣ ਤੇ) ਇਹ ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ ਹੋ ਹੋ ਬਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ।੬।


ਮਉਲਾ ਖੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਸਭਿ ਆਪੇ ਇਕਿ ਕਢੇ ਇਕਿ ਲਹਰਿ ਵਿਆਪੇ ਜਿਉ ਨਚਾਏ ਤਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਨਚਨਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਕਿਰਤ ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ ॥੭॥
Ma▫ulā kẖel kare sabẖ āpe. Ik kadẖe ik lahar vi▫āpe. Ji▫o nacẖā▫e ṯi▫o ṯi▫o nacẖan sir sir kiraṯ vihāṇī▫ā. ||7||
Of Himself, the Lord stages the whole play. Some He takes out and some he casts into the waves. As God makes men dance, so do they dance; everyone passes life according to their past deeds.
ਮਉਲਾ = ਖ਼ੁਦਾ, ਰੱਬ। ਸਭਿ = ਸਾਰੇ। ਖੇਲ = {ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ। ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਖੇਲੁ' ਇਕ-ਵਚਨ}। ਆਪੇ = ਆਪ ਹੀ। ਇਕਿ = ਕਈ {ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਇਕ' ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ}। ਵਿਆਪੇ = ਫਸੇ ਹੋਏ। ਨਚਾਏ = ਨਚਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਨਚਨਿ = ਨੱਚਦੇ ਹਨ। ਸਿਰਿ = ਸਿਰ ਉੱਤੇ। ਸਿਰਿ ਸਿਰਿ = ਹਰੇਕ (ਦੇ) ਸਿਰ ਉੱਤੇ। ਕਿਰਤ = (ਪਿਛਲੇ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੀ) ਕਮਾਈ। ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ = ਬੀਤਦੀ ਹੈ, ਅਸਰ ਪਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।੭।

(ਪਰ, ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਹ ਵੱਸ?) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਸਾਰੇ ਖੇਲ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਕਈ ਐਸੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੀਆਂ ਲਹਿਰਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਫਸੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ, ਕਈ ਐਸੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਲਹਿਰਾਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਕੱਢ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਹੱਥਾਂ ਤੇ) ਨਚਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ; ਤਿਵੇਂ ਤਿਵੇਂ ਜੀਵ ਨੱਚਦੇ ਹਨ। ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ ਦੇ ਸਿਰ ਉੱਤੇ (ਉਸ ਦੇ ਪਿਛਲੇ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੀ) ਕਮਾਈ ਅਸਰ ਪਾ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ।੭।


ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ ਤਾ ਖਸਮੁ ਧਿਆਈ ਸੰਤਾ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਪਾਈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਗੁਣ ਗੀਤਾ ਨਿਤ ਵਖਾਣੀਆ ॥੮॥੨॥੮॥੧੨॥੨੦॥
Mihar kare ṯā kẖasam ḏẖi▫ā▫ī. Sanṯā sangaṯ narak na pā▫ī. Amriṯ nām ḏān Nānak ka▫o guṇ gīṯā niṯ vakẖāṇī▫ā. ||8||2||8||12||20||
If the Lord shows His grace, then alone meditate I upon the Lord. Associating with the saints, one falls not into hell. O Lord, bless Thou Nanak, with the gift of Thine Nectar-Name, He ever sings the songs of Thine praise.
ਤਾ = ਤਾਂ, ਤਦੋਂ। ਧਿਆਈ = ਧਿਆਈਂ, ਮੈਂ ਧਿਆਵਾਂ। ਨਰਕਿ = ਨਰਕ ਵਿਚ। ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ = ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ। ਦਾਨੁ = ਖੈਰ। ਕਉ = ਨੂੰ (ਦੇਹ)। ਗੁਣ ਗੀਤਾ = ਗੁਣ ਗੀਤਾਂ, ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ। ਵਖਾਣੀਆ = ਵਖਾਣੀਂ, ਮੈਂ ਵਖਾਣਾਂ।੮।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ, ਤਾਂ ਹੀ ਮੈਂ ਉਸ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ। (ਜਿਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਿਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਉਹ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਰਹਿ ਕੇ ਨਰਕ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ। ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਨਾਨਕ ਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਾਮ-ਦਾਨ ਦੇਹ, (ਤਾ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਨਾਨਕ) ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ ਸਦਾ ਗਾਂਦਾ ਰਹਾਂ।੮।੨।੮।੧੨।੨੦। ❁ ਅੰਕਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਿਰਣਾ: ਅੰਕ ਨੰ: ੨ - ਇਹ ਦੋ ਅੰਜੁਲੀਆਂ (ਅਰਜ਼ੋਈਆਂ ਹਨ) ਮ: ੫ ਦੀਆਂ। ਅੰਕ ਨੰ: ੮ - ਮ: ੫ ਦੀਆਂ ਕੁੱਲ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀਆਂ (੨ ਅੰਜੁਲੀਆਂ ਸਮੇਤ) ੮ ਹਨ। ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਦੀਆਂ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀਆਂ = ੧੧। ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਦੀ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀ = ੧। ਜੋੜ = ੧੨। ਮ: ੫ ਦੀਆਂ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀਆਂ = ੮। ਕੁਲ ਜੋੜ = ੨੦।


Regards,
Dalbir Singh
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Dalbir Singh Ji,
Gurfateh.

I still say that the Divine Message of Gurbani/Gurmatt/SGGs is FOR THIS WORLD and for US HUMANS.
It is pointless wondering the ifs and whys...we should concentrate on the MESSAGE..that is..Naam Japp and collect the Naam Capital to take with us when we depart this world.

ALL the "knowledge..the know-how etc etc that we accumulate about which karm leads to which joon..what punishment fits what crime...which person will be reborn in to what etc etc will be of no use to us IF we didnt collect the Naam kamaii. Parrh Parrh Gaddeh padeeah...we will be very knolwedgeable and experts in joons and reincarnations, jamdoots and their lekhas etc...BUT will we Pass muster and Merge..will the Creator accept us ??

WHY do you think..GURU NANAK JI ALWAYS says..I DONT KNOW...NO BODY KNOWS...Baba bolte theh KHAAN GAYEH ?? Where did the DEAD ONE GO ?? .why no one ever comes BACK ?? What really happens after Death..and BEFORE Birth ?? Simply becasue all that is in the REALM of the CREATOR..HE ALONE KNOWS IT ALL and DECIDES. Its ours to FOLLOW..and NOT QUESTION why..as the Marines say....ours not to question why..ours is to DO and DIE !! Guru Ji KNEW everything..if he wanted to..He could have written a DETAILED 500 page summary of all this..HE DID NOT....and you know why not ?? becasue after thta 500 page summary..there woudl be still people wondering..is this really so..?? is it correct ?? Huamn nature is such...we never satisfy and we are never satisfied !!

The TREE in the Gurbani above..is AKAL PURAKH...All creatures actively SEEK a large tree for its shade, coolness..shelter...and..AKAL PURAKH provides all those...In the Guudev Sakhis..there is mention fo a "tree" that Guru nanak ji slept under..and the shade of this tree never shifted with the passage of the SUN....that is metaphorical illustration of GURU NANAK the TREE thta came to offer His shade in all conditions...ordinary trees shift shade in tandem witht he sun..the GURU PROVIDES continous shade 24/7....consistently. Thats is the sakhi..and its not a MIRACLE as then that would be going agaisnt Natures Laws. The SNAKE shade thing si also a reference to the God Naga/Vishnu that has a multi headed snake shading him...and it became a skahi /miracle about a snake shading Guru nanak ji..when its GURU the Shade Giver...

my humble thoughts on the matter...lets now wait for teji's views..and i am sure they will be refreshing...
 

Tejwant Singh

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Dear Tejwant Ji ,
Can u translate the following Shabad otherwise ? Here I'm giving u this Shabad from page 1019-1020 of SGGS using Prof.Sahib Singh Ji's translation .IMHO in this Shabad , Guru Sahib defines who die & born again & Guru Sahib is clearly accepting rebirth ( though 84 lacs lives may be just a symbolic number )


SGGS 1019-20


ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ਬਿਰਖੈ ਹੇਠਿ ਸਭਿ ਜੰਤ ਇਕਠੇ ਇਕਿ ਤਤੇ ਇਕਿ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਮਿਠੇ ਅਸਤੁ ਉਦੋਤੁ ਭਇਆ ਉਠਿ ਚਲੇ ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਅਉਧ ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ ॥੧॥
Mārū mėhlā 5. Birkẖai heṯẖ sabẖ janṯ ikṯẖe. Ik ṯaṯe ik bolan miṯẖe. Asaṯ uḏoṯ bẖa▫i▫ā uṯẖ cẖale ji▫o ji▫o a▫oḏẖ vihāṇī▫ā. ||1||
Maru 5th Guru. Under the tree of the world, all the beings have gathered together. Some are hot-tempered and some speak with sweet voice. When the sun rises at the end of night, they get up and march off, when their life ends.
ਬਿਰਖ = ਰੁੱਖ। ਸਭਿ = ਸਾਰੇ। ਇਕਿ = {ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਇਕ' ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ}। ਤਤੇ = ਖਰ੍ਹਵੇ, ਤਿੱਖੇ। ਬੋਲਨਿ = ਬੋਲਦੇ ਹਨ। ਅਸਤੁ = ਡੁੱਬਾ ਹੋਇਆ (ਸੂਰਜ)। ਉਦੋਤੁ ਭਇਆ = ਉਦੈ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਅਕਾਸ਼ ਵਿਚ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਉਠਿ = ਉੱਠ ਕੇ। ਅਉਧ = ਉਮਰ। ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ = ਬੀਤ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।੧।

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਵੇਂ ਸੂਰਜ ਡੁੱਬਣ ਵੇਲੇ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਪੰਛੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਰੁੱਖ ਉਤੇ ਆ ਇਕੱਠੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਇਸ ਆਕਾਸ਼-ਰੁੱਖ ਹੇਠ ਸਾਰੇ ਜੀਵ-ਜੰਤ ਆ ਇਕੱਠੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ, ਕਈ ਖਰ੍ਹਵੇ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਈ ਮਿੱਠੇ ਬੋਲ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਹਨ। ਡੁੱਬਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਸੂਰਜ ਜਦੋਂ ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਵਿਚ ਮੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ (ਪੰਛੀ ਰੁੱਖ ਉਤੋਂ) ਉੱਠ ਕੇ ਉੱਡ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ (ਤਿਵੇਂ ਹੀ) ਜਿਉਂ ਜਿਉਂ (ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀ) ਉਮਰ ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ (ਪੰਛੀਆਂ ਵਾਂਗ ਇਥੋਂ ਕੂਚ ਕਰ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ)।੧।


ਪਾਪ ਕਰੇਦੜ ਸਰਪਰ ਮੁਠੇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲਿ ਫੜੇ ਫੜਿ ਕੁਠੇ ਦੋਜਕਿ ਪਾਏ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੈ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੈ ਬਾਣੀਆ ॥੨॥
Pāp kareḏaṛ sarpar muṯẖe. Ajrā▫īl faṛe faṛ kuṯẖe. Ḏojak pā▫e sirjaṇhārai lekẖā mangai bāṇī▫ā. ||2||
They who commit sins, are assuredly plundered. Azrail the mymidon of death, seizes and tortures them to death. They are cast into hell by the creator and the Righteous judge calls them to account.
ਕਰੇਦੜ = ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ। ਸਰਪਰ = ਜ਼ਰੂਰ। ਮੁਠੇ = ਮੁੱਠੈ, ਲੁੱਟੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ ਲੁਟਾ ਬੈਠਦੇ ਹਨ। ਅਜਰਾਈਲਿ = ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਨੇ, ਮੌਤ ਦੇ ਫ਼ਰਿਸ਼ਤੇ ਨੇ {ਨੋਟ: ਇਹ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਕਿਸੇ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਦੇ ਪਰਥਾਇ ਹੈ}। ਫੜੇ ਫੜਿ = ਫੜਿ ਫੜਿ, ਫੜ ਕੇ ਫੜ ਕੇ, ਫੜ ਫੜ ਕੇ। ਕੁਠੇ = ਕੁੱਠੇ, ਕੁਹ ਸੁੱਟੇ। ਦੋਜਕਿ = ਦੋਜ਼ਕ ਵਿਚ। ਮੰਗੈ = ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹੈ {ਇਕ-ਵਚਨ}। ਬਾਣੀਆ = ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦਾ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਧਰਮਰਾਜ।੨।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਇਥੇ ਪਾਪ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਜੀਵ (ਆਪਣੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ) ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਲੁਟਾ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਾਪ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੌਤ ਦਾ ਫ਼ਰਿਸ਼ਤਾ ਫੜ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਕੁਹੀ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਇਹ ਯਕੀਨ ਜਾਣੋ ਕਿ ਅਜਿਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ) ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਨੇ ਦੋਜ਼ਕ ਵਿਚ ਪਾ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਧਰਮਰਾਜ (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦਾ) ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹੈ।੨।


ਸੰਗਿ ਕੋਈ ਭਈਆ ਬੇਬਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਵਞੇਸਾ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮ ਜਾਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਤਿਲ ਪੀੜੇ ਜਿਉ ਘਾਣੀਆ ॥੩॥
Sang na ko▫ī bẖa▫ī▫ā bebā. Māl joban ḏẖan cẖẖod vañesā. Karaṇ karīm na jāṯo karṯā ṯil pīṛe ji▫o gẖāṇī▫ā. ||3||
No brother or sister accompanies them. Leaving behind their property, youth and wealth they march off. They know not their kind and Beneficent Creator Lord and shall be pressed like the basketful of sesame.
ਸੰਗਿ = (ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਲ) ਨਾਲ। ਭਈਆ = ਭਰਾ। ਬੇਬਾ = ਭੈਣ। ਜੋਬਨੁ = ਜਵਾਨੀ। ਛੋਡਿ = ਛੱਡ ਕੇ। ਵਞੇਸਾ = ਤੁਰ ਪਏਗਾ। ਕਰੀਮ = ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ। ਕਰਣ ਕਰਤਾ = ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਰਚਨਹਾਰ। ਜਾਤੋ = ਜਾਣਿਆ, ਸਾਂਝ ਪਾਈ। ਘਾਣੀ = ਕੋਲ੍ਹੂ ਵਿਚ ਪੀੜਨ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਇਕ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੋਗੇ ਪਾਏ ਹੋਏ ਤਿਲ।੩।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਜਗਤ ਤੋਂ ਕੂਚ ਕਰਨ ਵੇਲੇ) ਨਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਭਰਾ ਨਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਭੈਣ ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਜੀਵ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ਮਾਲ, ਧਨ, ਜਵਾਨੀ-ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ ਇੱਥੋਂ ਚਲਾ ਜਾਇਗਾ। ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਨੇ ਜਗਤ ਰਚਨਹਾਰ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਿੰਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਈ, ਉਹ (ਦੁੱਖਾਂ ਵਿਚ) ਇਉਂ ਪੀੜੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਤਿਲਾਂ ਦੀ ਘਾਣੀ।੩।


ਖੁਸਿ ਖੁਸਿ ਲੈਦਾ ਵਸਤੁ ਪਰਾਈ ਵੇਖੈ ਸੁਣੇ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਲਬਿ ਪਇਆ ਖਾਤ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਅਗਲੀ ਗਲ ਜਾਣੀਆ ॥੪॥
Kẖus kẖus laiḏā vasaṯ parā▫ī. vekẖai suṇe ṯerai nāl kẖuḏā▫ī. Ḏunī▫ā lab pa▫i▫ā kẖāṯ anḏar aglī gal na jāṇī▫ā.. ||4||
Happily, happily snatches thou other's goods, but God who is with thee, sees and hears thee. Through worldly avarice, thou has fallen into a pit and know not the thing of the future.
ਖੁਸਿ ਖੁਸਿ = ਖੋਹ ਕੇ ਖੋਹ ਕੇ, ਖੋਹ ਖੋਹ ਕੇ। ਪਰਾਈ = ਬਿਗਾਨੀ। ਵਸਤੁ = ਚੀਜ਼। ਖੁਦਾਈ = ਖ਼ੁਦਾ, ਰੱਬ। ਦੁਨੀਆ ਲਬਿ = ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਲੱਬ ਵਿਚ; ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ (ਸੁਆਦ ਦੇ) ਚਸਕੇ ਵਿਚ। ਖਾਤ = ਟੋਆ। ਗਲ = ਗੱਲ। ਅਗਲੀ = ਅਗਾਂਹ ਵਾਪਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ।੪।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਤੂੰ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਮਾਲ-ਧਨ ਖੋਹ ਖੋਹ ਕੇ ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈਂ, ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਰੱਬ (ਤੇਰੀ ਹਰੇਕ ਕਰਤੂਤ ਨੂੰ) ਵੇਖਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇਰੇ ਹਰੇਕ ਬੋਲ ਨੂੰ) ਸੁਣਦਾ ਹੈ। ਤੂੰ ਦੁਨੀਆ (ਦੇ ਸੁਆਦਾਂ) ਦੇ ਚਸਕੇ ਵਿਚ ਫਸਿਆ ਪਿਆ ਹੈਂ (ਮਾਨੋ ਡੂੰਘੇ) ਟੋਏ ਵਿਚ ਡਿੱਗਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈਂ। ਅਗਾਂਹ ਵਾਪਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਗੱਲ ਨੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ।੪।


ਜਮਿ ਜਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਮਰੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਸਜਾਇ ਪਇਆ ਦੇਸਿ ਲੰਮੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਤਿਸੈ ਜਾਣੀ ਅੰਧਾ ਤਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਹੈ ਪਰਾਣੀਆ ॥੫॥
Jam jam marai marai fir jammai. Bahuṯ sajā▫e pa▫i▫ā ḏes lammai. Jin kīṯā ṯisai na jāṇī anḏẖā ṯā ḏukẖ sahai parāṇī▫ā. ||5||
Thou shall be repeatedly born and die and be born again. thou shall suffer much punishment on thy way to the distant country. The blind mortal knows not Him who made him, wherefore he shall suffer pain,
ਜਮਿ = ਜੰਮਿ, ਜੰਮ ਕੇ। ਜਮਿ ਜਮਿ ਮਰੈ = ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੰਮ ਕੇ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ) ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸਜਾਇ = ਸਜ਼ਾ, ਦੰਡ। ਦੇਸਿ ਲੰਮੈ = ਲੰਮੇ ਦੇਸ ਵਿਚ, (ਮਰਨ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦੇ) ਲੰਮੇ ਪੈਂਡੇ ਵਿਚ। ਜਿਨਿ = ਜਿਸ (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ) ਨੇ। ਕੀਤਾ = ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ। ਅੰਧਾ = (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ) ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ (ਹੋਇਆ ਮਨੁੱਖ)। ਤਾ = ਤਾਂ, ਤਾਂਹੀਏਂ। ਸਹੈ = ਸਹਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪਰਾਣੀਆ = ਪਰਾਣੀ, ਜੀਵ।੫।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਦੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ) ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ (ਹੋ ਕੇ) ਉਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਂਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਂਦਾ ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦੋਂ ਇਹ (ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦਾ) ਦੁੱਖ ਸਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਜ਼ਾ ਮਿਲਦੀ ਹੈ, ਇਹ (ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦੇ) ਲੰਮੇ ਪੈਂਡੇ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੰਮ ਕੇ (ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ) ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੫।


ਖਾਲਕ ਥਾਵਹੁ ਭੁਲਾ ਮੁਠਾ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬੁਰਾ ਰੁਠ ਤੁਠਾ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਸਬੂਰੀ ਸੰਤੁ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਵਤੈ ਆਪਣ ਭਾਣੀਆ ॥੬॥
Kẖālak thāvhu bẖulā muṯẖā. Ḏunī▫ā kẖel burā ruṯẖ ṯuṯẖā. Siḏak sabūrī sanṯ na mili▫o vaṯai āpaṇ bẖāṇī▫ā. ||6||
Forgetting his Creator, man is ruined. The play of the world is bad The mortal is sometimes sad and sometimes happy. To learn from him the lesson of faith and contentment, the mortal meets not the saint and wanders as it pleases him.
ਖਾਲਕ = ਖ਼ਾਲਕ, ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ। ਥਾਵਹੁ = ਥਾਂ ਤੋਂ, ਵੱਲੋਂ। ਭੁਲਾ = ਭੁੱਲਾ, ਖੁੰਝਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ। ਮੁਠਾ = ਠੱਗਿਆ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਖੇਲੁ = ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ, ਜਾਦੂ ਦੀ ਖੇਡ। ਬੁਰਾ = ਭੈੜਾ। ਰੁਠ = ਰੁੱਠਾ, ਰੁੱਸਿਆ। ਤੁਠਾ = ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ ਹੋਇਆ। ਸਿਦਕੁ = ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ, ਤਸੱਲੀ। ਸਬੂਰੀ = ਸਬਰ, ਰਜੇਵਾਂ। ਸੰਤੁ = ਗੁਰੂ। ਵਤੈ = ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਆਪਣ ਭਾਣੀਆ = ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਮਰਜ਼ੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ।੬।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦਾ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਦਾ ਮੁਰੀਦ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਲੋਂ ਨਾਹ ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ ਹੈ ਨਾਹ ਰਜੇਵਾਂ; ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਖੁੰਝਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ ਲੁਟਾ ਬੈਠਦਾ ਹੈ; ਇਹ ਜਗਤ-ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਬੁਰਾ (ਖ਼ੁਆਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ), ਕਦੇ (ਮਾਇਆ ਗੁਆਚਣ ਤੇ ਇਹ) ਘਬਰਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਕਦੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਿਲਣ ਤੇ) ਇਹ ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ ਹੋ ਹੋ ਬਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ।੬।


ਮਉਲਾ ਖੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਸਭਿ ਆਪੇ ਇਕਿ ਕਢੇ ਇਕਿ ਲਹਰਿ ਵਿਆਪੇ ਜਿਉ ਨਚਾਏ ਤਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਨਚਨਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਕਿਰਤ ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ ॥੭॥
Ma▫ulā kẖel kare sabẖ āpe. Ik kadẖe ik lahar vi▫āpe. Ji▫o nacẖā▫e ṯi▫o ṯi▫o nacẖan sir sir kiraṯ vihāṇī▫ā. ||7||
Of Himself, the Lord stages the whole play. Some He takes out and some he casts into the waves. As God makes men dance, so do they dance; everyone passes life according to their past deeds.
ਮਉਲਾ = ਖ਼ੁਦਾ, ਰੱਬ। ਸਭਿ = ਸਾਰੇ। ਖੇਲ = {ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ। ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਖੇਲੁ' ਇਕ-ਵਚਨ}। ਆਪੇ = ਆਪ ਹੀ। ਇਕਿ = ਕਈ {ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਇਕ' ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ}। ਵਿਆਪੇ = ਫਸੇ ਹੋਏ। ਨਚਾਏ = ਨਚਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਨਚਨਿ = ਨੱਚਦੇ ਹਨ। ਸਿਰਿ = ਸਿਰ ਉੱਤੇ। ਸਿਰਿ ਸਿਰਿ = ਹਰੇਕ (ਦੇ) ਸਿਰ ਉੱਤੇ। ਕਿਰਤ = (ਪਿਛਲੇ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੀ) ਕਮਾਈ। ਵਿਹਾਣੀਆ = ਬੀਤਦੀ ਹੈ, ਅਸਰ ਪਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।੭।

(ਪਰ, ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਹ ਵੱਸ?) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਸਾਰੇ ਖੇਲ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਕਈ ਐਸੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੀਆਂ ਲਹਿਰਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਫਸੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ, ਕਈ ਐਸੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਲਹਿਰਾਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਕੱਢ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਹੱਥਾਂ ਤੇ) ਨਚਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ; ਤਿਵੇਂ ਤਿਵੇਂ ਜੀਵ ਨੱਚਦੇ ਹਨ। ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ ਦੇ ਸਿਰ ਉੱਤੇ (ਉਸ ਦੇ ਪਿਛਲੇ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੀ) ਕਮਾਈ ਅਸਰ ਪਾ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ।੭।


ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ ਤਾ ਖਸਮੁ ਧਿਆਈ ਸੰਤਾ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਪਾਈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਗੁਣ ਗੀਤਾ ਨਿਤ ਵਖਾਣੀਆ ॥੮॥੨॥੮॥੧੨॥੨੦॥
Mihar kare ṯā kẖasam ḏẖi▫ā▫ī. Sanṯā sangaṯ narak na pā▫ī. Amriṯ nām ḏān Nānak ka▫o guṇ gīṯā niṯ vakẖāṇī▫ā. ||8||2||8||12||20||
If the Lord shows His grace, then alone meditate I upon the Lord. Associating with the saints, one falls not into hell. O Lord, bless Thou Nanak, with the gift of Thine Nectar-Name, He ever sings the songs of Thine praise.
ਤਾ = ਤਾਂ, ਤਦੋਂ। ਧਿਆਈ = ਧਿਆਈਂ, ਮੈਂ ਧਿਆਵਾਂ। ਨਰਕਿ = ਨਰਕ ਵਿਚ। ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ = ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ। ਦਾਨੁ = ਖੈਰ। ਕਉ = ਨੂੰ (ਦੇਹ)। ਗੁਣ ਗੀਤਾ = ਗੁਣ ਗੀਤਾਂ, ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ। ਵਖਾਣੀਆ = ਵਖਾਣੀਂ, ਮੈਂ ਵਖਾਣਾਂ।੮।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ, ਤਾਂ ਹੀ ਮੈਂ ਉਸ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ। (ਜਿਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਿਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਉਹ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਰਹਿ ਕੇ ਨਰਕ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ। ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਨਾਨਕ ਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਾਮ-ਦਾਨ ਦੇਹ, (ਤਾ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਨਾਨਕ) ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ ਸਦਾ ਗਾਂਦਾ ਰਹਾਂ।੮।੨।੮।੧੨।੨੦। ❁ ਅੰਕਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਿਰਣਾ: ਅੰਕ ਨੰ: ੨ - ਇਹ ਦੋ ਅੰਜੁਲੀਆਂ (ਅਰਜ਼ੋਈਆਂ ਹਨ) ਮ: ੫ ਦੀਆਂ। ਅੰਕ ਨੰ: ੮ - ਮ: ੫ ਦੀਆਂ ਕੁੱਲ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀਆਂ (੨ ਅੰਜੁਲੀਆਂ ਸਮੇਤ) ੮ ਹਨ। ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਦੀਆਂ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀਆਂ = ੧੧। ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਦੀ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀ = ੧। ਜੋੜ = ੧੨। ਮ: ੫ ਦੀਆਂ ਅਸ਼ਟਪਦੀਆਂ = ੮। ਕੁਲ ਜੋੜ = ੨੦।


Regards,
Dalbir Singh

Dalbir Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your post. I was expecting a response regarding my post which was in reference to what you had written, instead you have copied and pasted some Shabads with Prof. Sahib Singh's translation and also Bhai Manmohan Singh's distorted literal transaltion in English and want me to translate them for you. Bhai Manmohan Singh ji, has treated SGGS as the Bible where Ik Ong Kaar is a personified deity NOT Ajuni Sahibung- The Creative Energy - as in SGGS. Hence, he uses the words like LORD, THOU,THEE etc. etc., all borrowed from the Bible which are irrelevant to Sikhi and SGGS. You know you can buy the title LORD in the UK for a few Pounds? I know many have. Literal translation by Sant Singh Khalsa is even worse. So literal translations in english are not only distorting but also misleading at times. That is the reason I urge all to express Gurbani in their own words in English.

Now, coming back to your request about myself translating the above Shabads for you. I am sorry to disappoint you. Gurbani Vichar does not work like that. One is not here to test others but oneself and to interact and learn from each other. That is the main objective of this forum.

But please do not lose hope. Nothing is lost. I would like you to do one thing which I ask all who quote Gurbani, that is to express it in your own words. What you understand by it and add to the already copied and pasted Shabads.

Please also give your reasoning and thinking based on your own Gurmat understanding regarding the above Shabads. This is the way all of us can learn from you and each other.

If I happen to think differently, I would express that but before I can do that I need to know how this Gurbani relates to you as an indvidual on his Sikhi Marg because we all know Sikhi is the journey of the individual. Each of us carries our own Spiritual torch. I did express my understanding in response to your initial post as you can see it.

Hoping to learn a lot from you.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
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Respected Gyani Jio
Guru Fateh ! How are you?
I missed SPN for a couple of weeks, glad to read your recent posts today.
I am totally surprised to read your above post. At the end of your post, there is rolling eyes symbols that make me roll my eyes. With all due respect, now my question to you is this
Are we discussing only what Gurbani teaches us in context of becoming better or also Dr Baldev Singh Ji’s own views that says Guru Nanak rejects rebirths or incardination?
The thread started by you with his article, Mohinder Singh Sahni ji questioned Dr Sahib’s claim about rejection of rebirths by Guru Nanak; I gave many examples of Guru Vakas that verify Gurus faith in rebirths. It is a part of discussion, how we can accept Dr Sahib Ji’s own coined statement Guru when Guru is very clear in this context? There is no pick and choose in Gurbani, whatever is there must be accepted without overwriting Guru as Dr Baldev Sin gh ji did. Nothing is wrong with rebirth concept, pure reasoning questions the existence of Waheguru too, we dont honor that but accept what our Guru says about Him:)

Regards
G Singh

I think pk70 ji is making an excellent point in the above paragraph. There are two dimensions to the conversation.

One is the thesis of Dr. Baldev Singh ji and the reasoning he has applied to the question of reincarnation as he understands Guru Nanak's philosophy. And Dr. Baldev Singh is not alone in his opinion, and he is joined by respected members of the forum.

Second however is the message of the Shabd Guru -- what is it teaching us? What is it saying about coming and going.

I think Dr. Baldev Singh's thesis needs to be treated with respect because he clearly shows how in the context of history and culture reincarnation was used to hoodwink people and to strengthen the position of Brahmins who were themselves corrupt and politically motivated. Their philosophy enslaved. It did not liberate -- not even the soul.

But, understanding his thesis or saying that he makes good arguments does not nullify the idea of reincarnation. Reincarnation can be seriously debated and discussed in light of Dr. Baldev Singh's thinking. One argument can be heard without abandoning the other. That is actually my own position on this topic. Dr. Baldev Singh raises serious doubts about the theory of karma and reincarnation as most understood these ideas at the time of Guru Nanak, and for generations afterward even to today. That however does not settle the mater. So far he has not convinced me that maran and janam have been tossed out the window. Only that janam and maran are not understood using the lens of the Brahminical traditions.
 

pk70

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Feb 25, 2008
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Respected Gyani jio
Humbly I thank you for so kind words. I have high regard for you as you know
Allow me to honor you as a real honest person for showing the sincerity Guru Nanak asks from his followers, many of them lack that utterly. Their outside behavior is contrary to what they think regardless what they talk about Gurbani. From my side, humbly urge you to accept it as a fact as per my comprehension.
I have been guided by reasoning since my University days. My professor who used to teach us Literature taught us a couple of things very important, “what is not understood, never debate that” and “what is not part of your knowledge , do not comment on that” That actually helped me to understand “reasoning” more.
Those who ignore these two things can make fools of themselves. On this forum, you might have noticed this fact practically.
Your attitude to teach Gurbani in simple way is praise worthy. What about the facts already expressed in Gurbani , would you accept if some color them with their own thinking? In my opinion, no scholar is so high like a tower that we cannot look at him/her, Dr Baldev Singh ji is not an exception either
You always quote Sakhis and try to give them positive meaning, good for you, at least it infuses reasoning through metaphoric expressions. I reject all of them as fictional work; it has nothing to do with Guru Message which is our today’s light.
Gurbani is very clear about birth and rebirth, there is no second guessing. Eighty four births number is just imaginary numbers or accepted imaginary calculations and shouldnt be taken literally; actually it’s used to address the process of the soul that goes through. When I read Dr Baldev Singh ji first time, about a couple years ago, I was really impressed but slowly I found out that he was telling more about his own thinking about the God and the universe than what Guru Nanak says. I was made aware of this fact by Gurbani itself. Guru Nanak, if says that he doesn’t know this or that, he simply puts limits on humans knowledge to understand the infinite. With the same reason I question those who teach science from Gurbani.
I totally agree with you, it is more important to understand Gurbani to make our life better; however, Isn’t it also important to point out that Dr Baldev Singh’s own thinking on birth and rebirth is not aligned with Gurbani. This point is supported by Gurbani so repeatedly, there is no place for a doubt. The Shabad quoted by Dlbirk is very important, it is sad, it has been ignored and S Manmohan Singh’s translation is questioned though his interpretation in context of birth and rebirth is not different than Dr Sahib Singh Ji. Here is the Vaak out of that Shabad already quoted by Dalbirk Ji. I can translate that Shabad, will it change the fact Dalbirk pointed out? No, it won’t. I quoted a numerous Guru Vakaas expressing faith in birth and rebirth; could it do it any thing? When mind is already set to take sides, no one can change that. Contrary to that, your openness inspired me to dialogue with you in this regard. Now look at the following, try to understand from where it starts
ਖੁਸਿ ਖੁਸਿ ਲੈਦਾ ਵਸਤੁ ਪਰਾਈ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਵੇਖੈ ਸੁਣੇ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਖੁਦਾਈ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਦੁਨੀਆ ਲਬਿ ਪਇਆ ਖਾਤ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਅਗਲੀ ਗਲ ਜਾਣੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT]॥[/FONT]
Kẖus kẖus laiḏā vasaṯ parā▫ī.[/FONT] vekẖai suṇe ṯerai nāl kẖuḏā▫ī.[/FONT] Ḏunī▫ā lab pa▫i▫ā kẖāṯ anḏar aglī gal na jāṇī▫ā.. ||4||[/FONT]
IN Essence: There are some who happily snatch others goods but don’t understand that God sees and hears all this. They are entangled in worldly temptations but are not aware of what will happen next

ਖੁਸਿ [/FONT]ਖੁਸਿ = [/FONT]ਖੋਹ [/FONT]ਕੇ [/FONT]ਖੋਹ [/FONT]ਕੇ, [/FONT]ਖੋਹ [/FONT]ਖੋਹ [/FONT]ਕੇ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਪਰਾਈ = [/FONT]ਬਿਗਾਨੀ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਵਸਤੁ = [/FONT]ਚੀਜ਼।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਖੁਦਾਈ = [/FONT]ਖ਼ੁਦਾ, [/FONT]ਰੱਬ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਦੁਨੀਆ [/FONT]ਲਬਿ = [/FONT]ਦੁਨੀਆ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਲੱਬ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ; [/FONT]ਦੁਨੀਆ [/FONT]ਦੇ ([/FONT]ਸੁਆਦ [/FONT]ਦੇ) [/FONT]ਚਸਕੇ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਖਾਤ = [/FONT]ਟੋਆ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਗਲ = [/FONT]ਗੱਲ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਅਗਲੀ = [/FONT]ਅਗਾਂਹ [/FONT]ਵਾਪਰਨ [/FONT]ਵਾਲੀ।[/FONT]।[/FONT]

ਹੇ [/FONT]ਭਾਈ! [/FONT]ਤੂੰ [/FONT]ਪਰਾਇਆ [/FONT]ਮਾਲ-[/FONT]ਧਨ [/FONT]ਖੋਹ [/FONT]ਖੋਹ [/FONT]ਕੇ [/FONT]ਇਕੱਠਾ [/FONT]ਕਰਦਾ [/FONT]ਰਹਿੰਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈਂ, [/FONT]ਤੇਰੇ [/FONT]ਨਾਲ [/FONT]ਵੱਸਦਾ [/FONT]ਰੱਬ ([/FONT]ਤੇਰੀ [/FONT]ਹਰੇਕ [/FONT]ਕਰਤੂਤ [/FONT]ਨੂੰ) [/FONT]ਵੇਖਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ ([/FONT]ਤੇਰੇ [/FONT]ਹਰੇਕ [/FONT]ਬੋਲ [/FONT]ਨੂੰ) [/FONT]ਸੁਣਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਤੂੰ [/FONT]ਦੁਨੀਆ ([/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਸੁਆਦਾਂ) [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਚਸਕੇ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ [/FONT]ਫਸਿਆ [/FONT]ਪਿਆ [/FONT]ਹੈਂ ([/FONT]ਮਾਨੋ [/FONT]ਡੂੰਘੇ) [/FONT]ਟੋਏ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ [/FONT]ਡਿੱਗਾ [/FONT]ਹੋਇਆ [/FONT]ਹੈਂ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਅਗਾਂਹ [/FONT]ਵਾਪਰਨ [/FONT]ਵਾਲੀ [/FONT]ਗੱਲ [/FONT]ਨੂੰ [/FONT]ਤੂੰ [/FONT]ਸਮਝਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੀ [/FONT]ਨਹੀਂ।[/FONT]।[/FONT] ( Oh brother you snatch things from others, God is always with you, He sees what you do and hears what you say. In worldly tastes you are totally involved but is unable to understand what is going to happen next)


ਜਮਿ ਜਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਮਰੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਬਹੁਤੁ ਸਜਾਇ ਪਇਆ ਦੇਸਿ ਲੰਮੈ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਤਿਸੈ ਜਾਣੀ ਅੰਧਾ ਤਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਹੈ ਪਰਾਣੀਆ [/FONT]॥[/FONT]॥[/FONT]
Jam jam marai marai fir jammai.[/FONT] Bahuṯ sajā▫e pa▫i▫ā ḏes lammai.[/FONT] Jin kīṯā ṯisai na jāṇī anḏẖā ṯā ḏukẖ sahai parāṇī▫ā. ||5||[/FONT]
In Essence ( as one falls for worldly temptations) repeatedly dies and be born, this way will be very long , because the mortal cares not the Creator who has created him, and result of it, he suffers[/FONT]

[/FONT]
ਜਮਿ = [/FONT]ਜੰਮਿ, [/FONT]ਜੰਮ [/FONT]ਕੇ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਜਮਿ [/FONT]ਜਮਿ [/FONT]ਮਰੈ = [/FONT]ਮੁੜ [/FONT]ਮੁੜ [/FONT]ਜੰਮ [/FONT]ਕੇ ([/FONT]ਮੁੜ [/FONT]ਮੁੜ) [/FONT]ਮਰਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ, [/FONT]ਜਨਮ [/FONT]ਮਰਨ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਗੇੜ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ [/FONT]ਪੈ [/FONT]ਜਾਂਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਸਜਾਇ = [/FONT]ਸਜ਼ਾ, [/FONT]ਦੰਡ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਦੇਸਿ [/FONT]ਲੰਮੈ = [/FONT]ਲੰਮੇ [/FONT]ਦੇਸ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ, ([/FONT]ਮਰਨ [/FONT]ਮਰਨ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਗੇੜ [/FONT]ਦੇ) [/FONT]ਲੰਮੇ [/FONT]ਪੈਂਡੇ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਜਿਨਿ = [/FONT]ਜਿਸ ([/FONT]ਪ੍ਰਭੂ) [/FONT]ਨੇ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਕੀਤਾ = [/FONT]ਪੈਦਾ [/FONT]ਕੀਤਾ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਅੰਧਾ = ([/FONT]ਮਾਇਆ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਮੋਹ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ) [/FONT]ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ([/FONT]ਹੋਇਆ [/FONT]ਮਨੁੱਖ)[/FONT]।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਤਾ = [/FONT]ਤਾਂ, [/FONT]ਤਾਂਹੀਏਂ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਸਹੈ = [/FONT]ਸਹਾਰਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਪਰਾਣੀਆ = [/FONT]ਪਰਾਣੀ, [/FONT]ਜੀਵ।[/FONT]।[/FONT]

ਹੇ [/FONT]ਭਾਈ! [/FONT]ਜਦੋਂ [/FONT]ਮਨੁੱਖ ([/FONT]ਮਾਇਆ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਮੋਹ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ) [/FONT]ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ([/FONT]ਹੋ [/FONT]ਕੇ) [/FONT]ਉਸ [/FONT]ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ [/FONT]ਨਾਲ [/FONT]ਸਾਂਝ [/FONT]ਨਹੀਂ [/FONT]ਪਾਂਦਾ [/FONT]ਜਿਸ [/FONT]ਨੇ [/FONT]ਇਸ [/FONT]ਨੂੰ [/FONT]ਪੈਦਾ [/FONT]ਕੀਤਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ, [/FONT]ਤਦੋਂ [/FONT]ਇਹ ([/FONT]ਜਨਮ [/FONT]ਮਰਨ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਗੇੜ [/FONT]ਦਾ) [/FONT]ਦੁੱਖ [/FONT]ਸਹਿੰਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ, [/FONT]ਇਸ [/FONT]ਨੂੰ [/FONT]ਬਹੁਤ [/FONT]ਸਜ਼ਾ [/FONT]ਮਿਲਦੀ [/FONT]ਹੈ, [/FONT]ਇਹ ([/FONT]ਜਨਮ [/FONT]ਮਰਨ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਗੇੜ [/FONT]ਦੇ) [/FONT]ਲੰਮੇ [/FONT]ਪੈਂਡੇ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ [/FONT]ਪੈ [/FONT]ਜਾਂਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ, [/FONT]ਇਹ [/FONT]ਮੁੜ [/FONT]ਮੁੜ [/FONT]ਜੰਮ [/FONT]ਕੇ ([/FONT]ਮੁੜ [/FONT]ਮੁੜ) [/FONT]ਮਰਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ, [/FONT]ਜਨਮ [/FONT]ਮਰਨ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਗੇੜ [/FONT]ਵਿਚ [/FONT]ਪੈ [/FONT]ਜਾਂਦਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ।[/FONT]।( [/FONT]Oh brother when one under the influence of Maya turns blind, and doesn’t know the Creator who created him, suffers through cycle of birth and death, this way he is punished a lot, he falls in to a long cycle of birth and death and takes birth repeatedly[/FONT])[/FONT][/FONT]
Now coming to your statement, why Guru says[/FONT]”[/FONT] WHY do y ou think..Guru Nanak JI ALWAYS says..I DONT KNOW...NO BODY KNOWS...Baba bolte theh KHAAN GAYEH ?? Where did the DEAD ONE GO ?? .why no one ever comes BACK ?? What really happens after Death..and BEFORE Birth ?? Simply becasue all that is in the REALM of the CREATOR..HE ALONE KNOWS IT ALL and DECIDES. Its ours to FOLLOW..an
Respected Gyani Jio, here is the answer referring to the same thing (which is not known), Gurbani stresses that all this goes on due to “haon”(Me/ego)
[/FONT]ਜਬ ਇਹ ਜਾਨੈ ਮੈ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਤਾ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] (278)
Jab ih jānai mai kicẖẖ karṯā.[/FONT]
As long as this mortal thinks that he is the one who does things,[/FONT]

ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਫਿਰਤਾ [/FONT]॥[/FONT]
Ŧab lag garabẖ jon mėh firṯā.[/FONT]
he shall wander in births through the womb.[/FONT]
As per your statement, Guru says that he doesn’t know what happens after death then why Guru says that the one who lives in ego ends up in birth again?[/FONT]
If Guru Nanak who says he doesn’t know what happens after death, why the following claim is established[/FONT]
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਾਵਣੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਣੈ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ [/FONT]॥[/FONT]॥[/FONT]
Anṯar nāvaṇ sācẖ pacẖẖāṇai.[/FONT] Anṯar kī gaṯ gurmukẖ jāṇai.[/FONT] Sācẖ sabaḏ bin mahal na pacẖẖāṇai. ||3||[/FONT]
In Essence: Bathing occurs within, Gurmukh understands the Almighty within, and understands eternal condition of the mind(in this context)( However without Guru) No one can realize the presence of Him without the true words of Guru..[/FONT]
ਨਾਵਣੁ = ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ। ਗਤਿ = ਆਤਮਕ ਅਵਸਥਾ। ਮਹਲੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਟਿਕਾਣਾ।੩।

ਜੇਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪੈ ਕੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਅੰਦਰਲੀ ਆਤਮਕ ਹਾਲਤ ਸਮਝ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜੇਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਂਝ ਪਾ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਤਮਾ ਵਿਚ (ਤੀਰਥ-) ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। (ਪਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ) ਸੱਚੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਟਿਕਾਣਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਛਾਣ ਸਕਦਾ।੩। ( The One who after seeking Guru’s refuge, understands internal spiritual plight and understands the Eternal Almighty within, is having bathing within. (but without Guru) no one can understand presence the Creator)
ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ [/FONT]ਮਹਿ [/FONT]ਆਕਾਰੁ [/FONT]ਸਮਾਵੈ [/FONT][/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਅਕਲ [/FONT]ਕਲਾ [/FONT]ਸਚੁ [/FONT]ਸਾਚਿ [/FONT]ਟਿਕਾਵੈ [/FONT][/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਸੋ [/FONT]ਨਰੁ [/FONT]ਗਰਭ [/FONT]ਜੋਨਿ [/FONT]ਨਹੀ [/FONT]ਆਵੈ [/FONT][/FONT]॥[/FONT]੪॥
Nirankār mėh ākār samāvai.[/FONT] Akal kalā sacẖ sācẖ tikāvai.[/FONT] So nar garabẖ jon nahī āvai. ||4||[/FONT]
Such person (Gurmukh) merges into the Formless by reverting himself towards the unknowable Almighty (centers the mind at Him), that person doesn’t enter into womb-existences.
ਆਕਾਰੁ = ਬਾਹਰ ਦਿੱਸਦਾ ਜਗਤ। ਸਮਾਵੈ = ਲੀਨ ਕਰੇ। ਅਕਲ ਕਲਾ = ਜਿਸਦੀ ਕਲਾ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਤੋਂ ਪਰੇ ਹੈ। ਸਾਚਿ = ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜ ਕੇ।੪।

ਜੇਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦਿੱਸਦੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਅਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਵਿਚ ਲੀਨ ਕਰ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਆਪਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਬਾਹਰ ਵਲੋਂ ਰੋਕ ਕੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਲੈ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ;) ਜਿਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਸੱਤਿਆ-ਗਿਣਤੀ ਮਿਣਤੀ ਤੋਂ ਪਰੇ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਜੇਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦਾ।੪।[/FONT] ( The person who merges the visible world into Invisible Creator(means curbs his attention from outside to bring into within), and sets unknowable Almighty in mind through Simran, that person doesn’t go into cycle of birth and death)


I have abandoned the Sakhis, Sikh-literature sources, all miracle-stories and have taken refuge in Sri Guru Granth Sahib and have realized that there are some facts in concept of soul, birth and death and merging with the Almighty never to come into recycling. It is not the right thing to do by refusing to accept our own Guru just because someone thought otherwise. You have seen how bit by bit people abused Gurbani to negate Panj Kakaars right on this site.
There is no end of such dramas. The best refuge is Guru Message that is repeated through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it doesn’t need an approval of any scientist.
Thanks for bearing with me.:)
Regards

G Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Guru Piayare G Singh Jio,
Gurfateh.

I am extremely thankful for the effort you have taken to answer my doubts..from Gurbani.
I too have never taken the sakhis/outside literature as any basis...but do take them into consideration whenever any student brings them up...there are some sites and a very prominent Malaysian Gurmatt Teaching Academy that rely a lot on such sakhis to impart Gurbani teachings and they use the tradditional "miracle" approach....and as such i cannot abandon these alltogether as i have to provide answers and relevancy as oer GURBANI and SGGS. So far imho i am sucessful in bringing all these sakhis out of the miracle spehere into metaphorical spehere. Most of my students can now distinguish as per Gurbani Principles "sakhi" from the purely mythological miracle type that has no basis except that Waddeh baba ji Mahapurash ji said so. Who knows that such "sakhis" have evolved over the centuries from what was originally intended into pure miraclous powers types. Its common knowledge that "whispers" change drastically from one person tot he next...in a well known Managment Game..a person whispers to the next...and so on down the line..until the final person is asked to say it loud what he heard....and the results are astonishing...along the line what was originally said changes so drastically... each "hears" different and says different...adding/subtracting....and so could "sakhis"...
Guur Nank ji could have used the TREE analogy to teach.about Attributes of Akal Purakh.....and over time it became into a story that Guru ji slept under a tree that never changed its shade...

You are of course right that besides SGGS there is no other need for anything else..all answers lie in the SGGS....we just have to go look for them. I fidn this advise really useful and impart it to my students as well.

Manmohan Singhs Teeka has a lot to offer..and the archaic language used cannot be used to dismiss its scholarship...after all we can discard all those arcahaic language/vocabulary..and take the rest...using this argument is akin to saying..teri khandeh dee dahrree hildee hai....your beard shakes when you chew... My personal approach to Manmohan Singh is..i "use" modern vocabulary when i use it....and so far it not been found wanting.

Dalbir ji..you are absolutley right...similar parametres are used to deny 5 kakars, or prove that meat eating is not sanctioned in Sikhi...which is far from the truth as espoused in SGGS Gurbani. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh uses Gurbani to "prove"...the existence of the Hidden Beings. paranormal supernatural, etc etc...in hsi anditthhe duniya...ONLY more comprehensive study and understanding of Gurbani will help us. SPN is one such platform....that helps us in this endeavour...:inca::inca:
 
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