Sikhism: Monotheistic Or Pantheistic?

[Satyaban]

GRRRRRRRRR! Sorry to hear that happened to you. We had a bad thunderstorm last night also, and one the night before too. :down:

Yeah this happened Saturday night and I live to the south of you, I can't say I know where Chester is but all of Pa. is north of me. I will just have to muddle through until Monday.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[spnadmin]

Satyaban ji

That storm did travel from south to north. You are right about that.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Friends:

My modem got fried in a thunderstorm so I will be very restricted for a week. I will try to keep up my time is no longer unlimied because I have to use machines at the library.


Peace
Satyaban

Satyaban ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sorry to know that. I hope things get to normal quickly.

 

[Satyaban]

Satyaban ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sorry to know that. I hope things get to normal quickly.

I'll be back to normal on Monday I think. I have my machine to where it fits me well, well as possible I guess with Vista, so using public machines is a bit awkward.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[Satyaban]

Tejwant ji
Sorry for the delay.

1. When you remarked about the "ism" you said these systems were used to "believe in a deity. My response is that the belief in a deity came first. The rituals followed as I mentioned when talking about "cultural monads"

2. You later said "no thought process is needed for all of the above which shows that self discovery or self betterment" etc. My response, which I don't think was confusing but will restate, is that how people respond and use rituals is up to the individual.

When you said "Siki is not a belief system because it is based on pragmatism not on dogmas. As it is a pragmatic approach to life, it is based on objective reality." do you mean it is based only on empiracal evidence? There is no faith involvved, no other states of consciousness or metaphysics?

I will have to finish later.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[vsgrewal48895]

vsgrewal48895

Are any of your post your own words or extemporaneous?

Peace
Satyaban

Dear Satyaban Ji,

Most are extemporaneous but some references are from my blog Spiritualism,-A Sikh Perspective.

Cordially,

Virinder

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Satayban ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am glad your modem is back and running.

You write:

1. When you remarked about the "ism" you said these systems were used to "believe in a deity. My response is that the belief in a deity came first. The rituals followed as I mentioned when talking about "cultural monads"

That may or may not be true. Ritual in Hinduism about throwing water to the Sun has nothing to do with any personified deity. Guru Nanak showed how these rituals were meaningless. The incidence happened in Haridwar where Hindu worshippers were throwing water in the East in the morning towards the Sun.He started throwing the water to the East and when asked what he was doing it, he said that he was irrigating his fields in Punjab.They asked how could the water get that far? Guru Nanak replied that if their throwing of water could get to the Sun then why not his doing the same would reach his fields which were much closer. The Incas were also Sun worshippers.

2. You later said "no thought process is needed for all of the above which shows that self discovery or self betterment" etc. My response, which I don't think was confusing but will restate, is that how people respond and use rituals is up to the individual.

I beg to differ with you. Rituals do not depend on the individual. They are part and parcel of any religion and some religions demand that from its followers, like offering food to the idols, pilgramges etc etc.

When you said "Sikhi is not a belief system because it is based on pragmatism not on dogmas. As it is a pragmatic approach to life, it is based on objective reality." do you mean it is based only on empiracal evidence? There is no faith involvved, no other states of consciousness or metaphysics?

Please specify what proof or empirical evidence are you looking for? Pragmatism is a practical, matter-of-fact way of approaching or assessing situations or of solving problems.

I will have to finish later.

Will be waiting to interact. This is the only way to learn, hence the name Sikh.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Satyaban]

Tejwant ji:

Quote:
2. You later said "no thought process is needed for all of the above which shows that self discovery or self betterment" etc. My response, which I don't think was confusing but will restate, is that how people respond and use rituals is up to the individual.
I beg to differ with you. Rituals do not depend on the individual. They are part and parcel of any religion and some religions demand that from its followers, like offering food to the idols, pilgramges etc etc.

What these rituals mean to an individual are up to the individual. I guess you don't see symbolism and imagry in some rituals.


Quote:
When you said "Sikhi is not a belief system because it is based on pragmatism not on dogmas. As it is a pragmatic approach to life, it is based on objective reality." do you mean it is based only on empiracal evidence? There is no faith involvved, no other states of consciousness or metaphysics?
Please specify what proof or empirical evidence are you looking for? Pragmatism is a practical, matter-of-fact way of approaching or assessing situations or of solving problems.

I am not looking for empirical evidence because there is none, but I thought you would endeavor to present some in keeping with being pragmatic. Spiritualism is believing in the unseen by its most fundamental definition and I would not call that pragmatic. So if you only accept that which is tangible where does that leave "The Creator" in Sikhism. Ideas are not tangible, neither are thoughts or "That One" I guess which you say Sikhism doesn't have.

I think you are redefining some words such as "deity" when I understand you to say Sikhi doesn't have one and p{censored}ing others so you don't understand what I am saying.


Quote:
I will have to finish later.
Will be waiting to interact. This is the only way to learn, hence the name Sikh.

BTW my machine will not be operational until Monday.

As always peace to you and yours,
Satyaban

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Satyaban ji

Guru Fateh
Your Quote:

2. You later said "no thought process is needed for all of the above which shows that self discovery or self betterment" etc. My response, which I don't think was confusing but will restate, is that how people respond and use rituals is up to the individual.

My response:

"I beg to differ with you. Rituals do not depend on the individual. They are part and parcel of any religion and some religions demand that from its followers, like offering food to the idols, pilgrimages etc etc."

You said:

What these rituals mean to an individual are up to the individual. I guess you don't see symbolism and imagry in some rituals.

You accused me of jumping to conclusions in the other post and here it is you doing that. You are jumping to conclusion and distorting what I said as you have done it before in the other post. One wonders why!

The question about symbolism and imagery is no where in my statement. You concocted it yourself. As asked before present your own arguments so one can interact not in any angry manner or nit picking things and coming to false conclusions.


Your Quote:

When you said "Sikhi is not a belief system because it is based on pragmatism not on dogmas. As it is a pragmatic approach to life, it is based on objective reality." do you mean it is based only on empiracal evidence? There is no faith involvved, no other states of consciousness or metaphysics?

My response:

"Please specify what proof or empirical evidence are you looking for? Pragmatism is a practical, matter-of-fact way of approaching or assessing situations or of solving problems."

Your quote

I am not looking for empirical evidence because there is none, but I thought you would endeavor to present some in keeping with being pragmatic.

I did and I quoted Guru Nanak from Jap ji. Please read again

Spiritualism is believing in the unseen by its most fundamental definition and I would not call that pragmatic.

Please elaborate yourself with examples what you disagree with.

So if you only accept that which is tangible where does that leave "The Creator" in Sikhism. Ideas are not tangible, neither are thoughts or "That One" I guess which you say Sikhism doesn't have.

I never said the above. I have no idea where you picked that conclusion from.

I think you are redefining some words such as "deity" when I understand you to say Sikhi doesn't have one and p{censored}ing others so you don't understand what I am saying.

Once again, please elaborate what you are talking about. Your posts show that you see things that are not said.


Regards

Tejwant Singh