Sikhs In Temples

[Archived_Member4]

That shabad did not say to not bow down to an idol. It said worshipping idols is ignorance.
So I stand by my point of bowing down to respect, which is actually what bowing down means!!

I am still waiting...

OH forgot to answer this:

I have no idea, how you came to the conclusion below with what you have above...

Do you bow down to SGGS because you are worshipping it? I assuming, of course, that you bow down to it and don't simply sit in the sangat after taking off your shoes etc.

Bhagat Singh ji, what does bowing down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji have to do with idol worship?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Do you bow down to SGGS because you are worshipping it?
simple question but I need you to answer before I say something.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Do you bow down to SGGS because you are worshipping it?
simple question but I need you to answer before I say something.

yes i do bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

 

[BhagatSingh]

yes i do bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Do you bow down to SGGS because you are worshipping it?
You ignored half of it...

 

[Archived_Member4]

Do you bow down to SGGS because you are worshipping it?
You ignored half of it...

Yes i do bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as in worshipping the Gubani

 

[BhagatSingh]

Yes i do bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as in worshipping the Gubani

Well why do worship gurbani? Is that what Guru Nanak taught? He said worship only the almighty.
BUT let's take worshipping gurbani as your belief. You still bowing down to a book and worshipping it. There is not a whole lot of difference between worshipping a book and worshipping an idol.

Just as you see gurbani in that book, others see god in the idol. :yes:

Now, I bow down to SGGS to respect it. When i enter the hall, I bow down to say Guru ji I am here to learn and do seva. Same as if I would if entered a temple, although I haven't been to one.

I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now. :}{}{}:

Again nowhere in SGGS does it say you cannot bow down to an idol. I rest my case. Gona enjoy the rest of my night in Dreamland.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Well why do worship gurbani? Is that what Guru Nanak taught? He said worship only the almighty.
BUT let's take worshipping gurbani as your belief. You still bowing down to a book and worshipping it. There is not a whole lot of difference between worshipping a book and worshipping an idol.

Just as you see gurbani in that book, others see god in the idol. :yes:

Now, I bow down to SGGS to respect it. When i enter the hall, I bow down to say Guru ji I am here to learn and do seva. Same as if I would if entered a temple, although I haven't been to one.

I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now. :}{}{}:

Again nowhere in SGGS does it say you cannot bow down to an idol. I rest my case. Gona enjoy the rest of my night in Dreamland.

I would say something, but only after i post this video.

YouTube - Idol worship - SIKH RELIGION

 

[Randip Singh]

Yes i do bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as in worshipping the Gubani

Please clarify this point, I am a bit confused?

Here is my take on this.

I have been taught that you only worship the almighty, and the reason why we bow to the 11th master is as a sign of respect and not worship. We do not worship the word but worship the creator of the word. The creator of the word does not live in any direction. According to Bani God is within us and our goal is to realise God i.e. become Gurmukh.

I don't think there is any harm in showing respect for other religions.Again I have been in Mandhir's but I do not bow down to anything. Infact there are many Hindu's I know that refuse to bow down to statues of God's/demi-Gods. It is about personal choice at the end of the day.

They key here is not to be disrespectful to other religions.

 

[Saint Soldier]

Sat shri akal

thank you brothers and sisters for ur replies. :yes:

As bhagat singh ji is saying that bowing to idols is out of respect why then Guru nanak and Bhagat kabir criticized muslims for bowing to mecca even this can be clarified by saying that this is to show respect.(bhagat singh ji:u)

And to further add a catalyst to this discussion :ice:what should sikhs do when going to a "dargah"(sufi-tombs) or to a church???? ( i stoped going to churches as i feel despised when im not given prasad)

 

[spnadmin]

Saint Solider ji

Randip ji clarifies that there are even Hindus who will not bow to idols. Guru Nanak criticized but that is not the same thing as condemning the practices of other religions. The way I read His Bani he is trying to educate people then and now as to how to elevate their understanding. He never condems but teaches.

Your comment about being turned away from prasad in "churches" was very interesting to me. Do you mean the "communion" or "host" in Christian churches. This is interesting because if that is it, you should know that Christians in some faiths also turn Christians from churches other than their own away from receiving the communion or host also. E.G., Roman Catholics will not give the communion host to Lutherans. It may not be that you are despised as a Sikh but instead because some Christian churches are very much like islands unto themsleves.

 

[Saint Soldier]

Sat shri akal,
addooo2 ji,
yes there r hindus who dont worship idols:yes: examples-arya samajis and kabir panthis but i dont know if they bow to idols or not and i cannot accompany them even if they do :inca:.
you hav not commented on my example of mecca?
when i visited chruch i wasnt a kesadhari sikh at that time. but as i was going for the prasad my friend who was a christian asked me to sit as i was not a christian. i felt very bad at that time.:inca:

 

[BhagatSingh]

As bhagat singh ji is saying that bowing to idols is out of respect why then Guru nanak and Bhagat kabir criticized muslims for bowing to mecca even this can be clarified by saying that this is to show respect.(bhagat singh ji:u)

I would like to see quotes from SGGS where this has been done.
So far one shabd was posted which was about worshipping and not bowing down.

As Sikh we bow down to respect, if anyone else makes anything else out of it then what can we do?

 

[BhagatSingh]

I would say something, but only after i post this video.

Don't bother with saying anything.

 

[Saint Soldier]

Sat shri akal,
bhagat singh ji,
you r either considering SGGS as ur spiritual syllabus for clearing the sikh standard or as a Primer :inca: why dont u just stop quoting SGGS.some thoughts of our Guru are to be learned through his deeds and doings rather than his poetic work . can u learn each and every line of SGGS .and let me here quate bhagat kabir ji
pothi pad pad jag mua pandit bana na koi dhai aksahr prem ke pade so pandit hoye.
come out of this bookish knowledge..........:inca:

 

[BhagatSingh]

Sat shri akal,
bhagat singh ji,

Satsriakal,
Saint Soldier ji

you r either considering SGGS as ur spiritual syllabus for clearing the sikh standard or as a Primer :inca:

I don't know what u mean by any of that.

why dont u just stop quoting SGGS.

I haven't started mate.

some thoughts of our Guru are to be learned through his deeds and doings rather than his poetic work .

EDIT: I agree actually, I have been trying to tell everyone that.

can u learn each and every line of SGGS .

Perhaps.

and let me here quate bhagat kabir ji

alright

pothi pad pad jag mua pandit bana na koi dhai aksahr prem ke pade so pandit hoye.
come out of this bookish knowledge..........:inca:

lol what is the point of all that and the rest of your post? You are not very good at making your point clear.

 

[Saint Soldier]

Sat shri akal,
God only knows if my points r weak or ur understanding.:inca: but it is the truth that both Guru nanak and bhagat kabir were against muslims bowing to mecca. :yes:after all both r symbols idols or buildings.and tell me if Baba nanak ever did that for himself. he never respected idols why do u think we as his sikhs should respect them . all right plz tell me if im wrong is my point clear now? come on if not im gone renounce all this

 

[BhagatSingh]

Sat shri akal,
God only knows if my points r weak or ur understanding.:inca:

In this case, your points. Let's see why...

but it is the truth that both Guru nanak and bhagat kabir were against muslims bowing to mecca. :yes:

You haven't provided anything to back that up. You are not going to win me over using the validity effect.

after all both r symbols idols or buildings.

what do you say to this "I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now. :}{}{}:"

and tell me if Baba nanak ever did that for himself. he never respected idols

How do you know? nothing to back that up again...

why do u think we as his sikhs should respect them .

Because we respect everything.

all right plz tell me if im wrong is my point clear now?

If all that is supposed to tell me something then no. If they are mere statements they make your thoughts clear then yes.

come on if not im gone renounce all this

renounce all of what? thinking that bowing down to something is worshipping? then yes renounce that becaus bowing down is a sign of respect. Here's a nother example of bowing down to respect.
When I got to India, I bow down to every elder and I touch their feet. I do that because in Indian culture that is how you show respect to something greater than you (doesn't matter if they are). You don't worship by bowing down to your elders.

Waheguru, this is the last thing I want to be teaching to what seem like educated Sikhs. Please forgive me

 

[Saint Soldier]

Sat shri akal,

Waheguru, this is the last thing I want to be teaching to what seem like educated Sikhs. Please forgive me

:rofl!!::rofl!!::rofl!!::rofl!!::rofl!!:

When I got to India, I bow down to every elder and I touch their feet. I do that because in Indian culture that is how you show respect to something greater than you (doesn't matter if they are). You don't worship by bowing down to your elders.

hmm ic how can u compare idols with elders idols r not alive .:yes:

You haven't provided anything to back that up. You are not going to win me over using the validity effect.

alright so this is for u--THE HINDUS HAVING STRAYED FROM PRIMAL LORD, ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY. THEY WORSHIP IDOLS,AS INSTRUCTED BY NARAD .... THEY, THE IGNORANT ONES,WORSHIP STONE-GODS ,NOT REALISING THAT STONES WHICH THEMSELVES SINK ,CANNOT FERRY OTHERS ACROSS.--GURU NANAK ,BIHAGRA,556
--sainty

 

[BhagatSingh]

Sat shri akal,
hmm ic how can u compare idols with elders idols r not alive .:yes:

In a sense that we bow down to both to respect them. If you have not understood that then do not proceed further.

alright so this is for u--THE HINDUS HAVING STRAYED FROM PRIMAL LORD, ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY. THEY WORSHIP IDOLS,AS INSTRUCTED BY NARAD .... THEY, THE IGNORANT ONES,WORSHIP STONE-GODS ,NOT REALISING THAT STONES WHICH THEMSELVES SINK ,CANNOT FERRY OTHERS ACROSS.--GURU NANAK ,BIHAGRA,556
--sainty

That has already been posted and it talks about worshipping, not bowing down.

I am glad I got a smile on someone's face.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Please clarify this point, I am a bit confused?

Here is my take on this.

I have been taught that you only worship the almighty, and the reason why we bow to the 11th master is as a sign of respect and not worship. We do not worship the word but worship the creator of the word. The creator of the word does not live in any direction. According to Bani God is within us and our goal is to realise God i.e. become Gurmukh.

I don't think there is any harm in showing respect for other religions.Again I have been in Mandhir's but I do not bow down to anything. Infact there are many Hindu's I know that refuse to bow down to statues of God's/demi-Gods. It is about personal choice at the end of the day.

They key here is not to be disrespectful to other religions.

Randip Singh ji, to understand the shabad that Pk70 presented to us, in this thread, is to understand what Hindus do to worship the idol. What does there worship consist of and here it is:

How is puja celebrated? Wherever puja is performed it includes three important components: the seeing of the deity; puja, or worship, which includes offering flowers, fruits, and foods; and retrieving the blessed food and consuming it. By performing these sacred acts the worshiper creates a relationship with the divine through his or her emotions and senses. ​

During a household puja, the head of the household chants prayers to the god or goddess. The worshipers offer the deity a seat, wash its feet, and give it water. An image may be symbolically bathed, clothed in new garments, and embellished with ornaments. Perfumes and ointments may be applied, and flowers and garlands may be placed before it. Incense is burned, and a lighted lamp is waved in front of the deity. Foods such as cooked rice, fruit, butter, and sugar are offered. Family members bow before the image, sip the water they have given the god, and receive a portion of cooked food. The food and water are now considered to have been blessed by the deity for the devotees.​

Hindus worship to the idol consist of bowing down to the idol. To this worship this is what Guru Nanak Dev ji said.​

Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl: ​

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ ॥
Hinḏū mūle bẖūle akẖutī jāʼnhī.
The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way. ​

ਨਾਰਦਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਿ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਂਹੀ ॥
Nāraḏ kahi▫ā sė pūj karāʼnhī.
As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols. ​

ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁੰਗੇ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥
Anḏẖe gunge anḏẖ anḏẖār.
They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind. ​

ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥
/ Pāthar le pūjėh mugaḏẖ gavār.
The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. ​

ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ (SGGS Ji 556)
Ohi jā āp dube ṯum kahā ṯaraṇhār. ||2||
But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||​

This shabad presnted by PK70 in this thread speaks on this worship and Guru Nanak Dev ji call the person who performs this worship blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.​

Like the Singh said in the video don't for a second think its worshiping of an idol when we bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, which some will mislead you to believe. Gurbani is the word of God. Also to even strenght this even more in Gurbani a Sikh is said to give his head to the Guru​

If you desire to play this game of love with Me, then step onto My Path with your head in hand. When you place your feet on this Path, give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion. || 20 || ang 1412​

The perfect example of a Gurmukh that did this Baba Deep Singh ji, the great saint that I would love to be the dust at his feet.​

Whose path is Guru ji talking about here the one Lords Path, which Guru ji disclosed to us with the Lords words; Gurbani. what did the Gurus speak? The One Sumpreme Lord Gods words.​