General Sikhs Should Be Afraid Of Nothing!

[Harry Haller]

Re: Sikhs Should Be Afraid of Nothing

A Sikh should be afraid of doing that which his Guru has advised against.

Is that not slightly Abrahamic sinnerji, like the 'god fearing' men of the old testament, Ishnaji produced a wonderful link in another post which talked not of the fear of god, or doing things out of fear of god, but the fear of the loss of god, which I interpreted as the sikh meaning of god fearing, so if the Guru has advised against something, it is the fear of the loss of the gurus presence inside you as you carry out those actions, not a fear of the action,.

I am of course always happy to be corrected :sippingcoffeemunda:

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veera
Is it not strange that we don't believe in Abraham's God but Azra-eel is mentioned by our Guru.
No offence to Isna bhenji as she maybe descended from him, she may be right.

 

[Harry Haller]

Sinnerji

According to wikki,

In Sikh scriptures written by Guru Nanak Dev Ji, God (Waheguru) sends Azrael only to people who are unfaithful and unrepentant for their sins. Azrael appears on Earth in human form and hits sinful people on the head with his scythe to kill them and extract their souls from their bodies. Then he takes their souls to hell, and makes sure that they get the punishment that Waheguru decrees once he judges them. This would potray him as more of an avenging angel, or angel of retribution than a simple angel of death. It is unknown which story of Azrael this view is taken from.

firstly, my understanding is there is no hell in sikhism, nor any concept of sin, the above does indeed sound hugely abrahamic, clarification anyone?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Haven't heard of Azrael but I have heard of Guru Nanak mentioning Dharam Raj (Rai?), who is of Indian origin with the same role as Azraeel. He has an account of your good and bad deeds...

Would be nice to see some gurbani references regarding azraeel... only the name sounds unfamiliar to me though.

 

[Harry Haller]

Ok, I know there are certain rules on posting gurbani, but this is my first one, so if I have broken forum rules, apologies

pa-orhee 5.
Pauree, Fifth Mehl:

ਲੈ ਫਾਹੇ ਰਾਤੀ ਤੁਰਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ॥
लै फाहे राती तुरहि प्रभु जाणै प्राणी ॥
lai faahay raatee tureh parabh jaanai paraanee.
They take the noose in their hands, and go out at night to strangle others, but God knows everything, O mortal.

ਤਕਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਪਰਾਈਆ ਲੁਕਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਠਾਣੀ ॥
तकहि नारि पराईआ लुकि अंदरि ठाणी ॥
takeh naar paraa-ee-aa luk andar thaanee.
They spy on other men's women, concealed in their hiding places.

ਸੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਦੇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਵਿਖੰਮ ਥਾਇ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਦੁ ਮਾਣੀ ॥
संन्ही देन्हि विखम थाइ मिठा मदु माणी ॥
sanHee dayniH vikhamm thaa-ay mithaa mad maanee.
They break into well-protected places, and revel in sweet wine.

ਕਰਮੀ ਆਪੋ ਆਪਣੀ ਆਪੇ ਪਛੁਤਾਣੀ ॥
करमी आपो आपणी आपे पछुताणी ॥
karmee aapo aapnee aapay pachhutaanee.
But they shall come to regret their actions - they create their own karma.

ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਫਰੇਸਤਾ ਤਿਲ ਪੀੜੇ ਘਾਣੀ ॥੨੭॥
अजराईलु फरेसता तिल पीड़े घाणी ॥२७॥
ajraa-eel faraystaa til peerhay ghaanee. ||27||
Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, shall crush them like sesame seeds in the oil-press. ||27||

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=315&L=4&id=14377


Quote:
ਪਾਪ ਕਰੇਦੜ ਸਰਪਰ ਮੁਠੇ ॥
पाप करेदड़ सरपर मुठे ॥
paap karaydarh sarpar muthay.
Those who committed sins are sure to be ruined.

ਅਜਰਾਈਲਿ ਫੜੇ ਫੜਿ ਕੁਠੇ ॥
अजराईलि फड़े फड़ि कुठे ॥
ajraa-eel farhay farh kuthay.
Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, seizes and tortures them.


Quote:
ਮਃ ੧ ॥
मः १ ॥
mehlaa 1.
First Mehl:

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਸਿਖ ਸਹੀ ॥
नानकु आखै रे मना सुणीऐ सिख सही ॥
naanak aakhai ray manaa sunee-ai sikh sahee.
Says Nanak, listen, O mind, to the True Teachings.

ਲੇਖਾ ਰਬੁ ਮੰਗੇਸੀਆ ਬੈਠਾ ਕਢਿ ਵਹੀ ॥
लेखा रबु मंगेसीआ बैठा कढि वही ॥
laykhaa rab mangaysee-aa baithaa kadh vahee.
Opening His ledger, God will call you to account.

ਤਲਬਾ ਪਉਸਨਿ ਆਕੀਆ ਬਾਕੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਰਹੀ ॥
तलबा पउसनि आकीआ बाकी जिना रही ॥
talbaa pa-usan aakee-aa baakee jinaa rahee.
Those rebels who have unpaid accounts shall be called out.

ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਫਰੇਸਤਾ ਹੋਸੀ ਆਇ ਤਈ ॥
अजराईलु फरेसता होसी आइ तई ॥
ajraa-eel faraystaa hosee aa-ay ta-ee.
Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, shall be appointed to punish them.

ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਣੁ ਨ ਸੁਝਈ ਭੀੜੀ ਗਲੀ ਫਹੀ ॥
आवणु जाणु न सुझई भीड़ी गली फही ॥
aavan jaan na sujh-ee bheerhee galee fahee.
They will find no way to escape coming and going in reincarnation; they are trapped in the narrow path.

ਕੂੜ ਨਿਖੁਟੇ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਓੜਕਿ ਸਚਿ ਰਹੀ ॥੨॥
कूड़ निखुटे नानका ओड़कि सचि रही ॥२॥
koorh nikhutay naankaa orhak sach rahee. ||2||
Falsehood will come to an end, O Nanak, and Truth will prevail in the end. ||2||

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=953&english=t&id=40913#l40913


Quote:
ਪੀਰੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਭਿਸਤੀ ਸੋਈ ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਨ ਦੋਜ ਠਰਾ ॥੧੧॥
पीरु पछाणै भिसती सोई अजराईलु न दोज ठरा ॥११॥
peer pachhaanai bhistee so-ee ajraa-eel na doj tharaa. ||11||
One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11||


good to see you back bhagatsinghji, where have you been, i have missed your posts!

 

[Ishna]

Azrael could be ones conscience, which when soiled with wrong actions and lack of good deeds and lack of faith doesn't allow peace to enter the mind.

When someone is materialistic and has not been graced by Guruji, death is something to fear because there is no sense that death is a release, it is a monster that snuffs out you light, parts you from all your posessions and everything/one you love.

When Gurbani says in places that not even death can strike the Gurmukh, it is not literal death (the Gurmukh is not immortal in the bodily sense) but the fear of death, because death is a part of life, and only the self-absorbed wallow in "hell" due to their attachments.

My thoughts.

 

[Ishna]

Sometimes I think that's the ultimate aim of Sikhi- to make your last breath effortless merger and not full of fear and regret.

But that may be for another thread!

 

[BhagatSingh]

Good to see you to Harry ji! Just tried to get some more painting done.

Cool. I don't think you have broken any rules there.

Here is Dharam Rai - Righteous Judge of Dharma (Judge of Righteousness-religion). It seems it Dharam Rai who would send one to Azra-eel depending on his actions.

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
सिरीरागु महला ३ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl:
ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਸਚਾ ਸਚੁ ਤੂ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੇਰੈ ਚੀਰੈ ॥
हरि जी सचा सचु तू सभु किछु तेरै चीरै ॥
Har jī sacẖā sacẖ ṯū sabẖ kicẖẖ ṯerai cẖīrai.
O Dear Lord, You are the Truest of the True. All things are in Your Power.
ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਤਰਸਦੇ ਫਿਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਪੀਰੈ ॥
लख चउरासीह तरसदे फिरे बिनु गुर भेटे पीरै ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh ṯarasḏe fire bin gur bẖete pīrai.
The 8.4 million species of beings wander around searching for You, but without the Guru, they do not find You.
ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਬਖਸੇ ਬਖਸਿ ਲਏ ਸੂਖ ਸਦਾ ਸਰੀਰੈ ॥
हरि जीउ बखसे बखसि लए सूख सदा सरीरै ॥
Har jī▫o bakẖse bakẖas la▫e sūkẖ saḏā sarīrai.
When the Dear Lord grants His Forgiveness, this human body finds lasting peace.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਸੇਵ ਕਰੀ ਸਚੁ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰੈ ॥੧॥
गुर परसादी सेव करी सचु गहिर ग्मभीरै ॥१॥
Gur parsādī sev karī sacẖ gahir gambẖīrai. ||1||
By Guru's Grace, I serve the True One, who is Immeasurably Deep and Profound. ||1||
ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
मन मेरे नामि रते सुखु होइ ॥
Man mere nām raṯe sukẖ ho▫e.
O my mind, attuned to the Naam, you shall find peace.
ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमती नामु सलाहीऐ दूजा अवरु न कोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmaṯī nām salāhī▫ai ḏūjā avar na ko▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Follow the Guru's Teachings, and praise the Naam; there is no other at all. ||1||Pause||
ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਨੋ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੈ ਬਹਿ ਸਚਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
धरम राइ नो हुकमु है बहि सचा धरमु बीचारि ॥
Ḏẖaram rā▫e no hukam hai bahi sacẖā ḏẖaram bīcẖār.
The Righteous Judge of Dharma, by the Hukam of God's Command, sits and administers True Justice.
ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਦੁਸਟੁ ਆਤਮਾ ਓਹੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਰਕਾਰ ॥
दूजै भाइ दुसटु आतमा ओहु तेरी सरकार ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā▫e ḏusat āṯmā oh ṯerī sarkār.
Those evil souls, ensnared by the love of duality, are subject to Your Command.
ਅਧਿਆਤਮੀ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਤਾਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਜਪਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥
अधिआतमी हरि गुण तासु मनि जपहि एकु मुरारि ॥
Aḏẖi▫āṯmī har guṇ ṯās man jāpėh ek murār.
The souls on their spiritual journey chant and meditate within their minds on the One Lord, the Treasure of Excellence.
ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਕਰੈ ਧੰਨੁ ਸਵਾਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
तिन की सेवा धरम राइ करै धंनु सवारणहारु ॥२॥
Ŧin kī sevā ḏẖaram rā▫e karai ḏẖan savāraṇhār. ||2||
The Righteous Judge of Dharma serves them; blessed is the Lord who adorns them. ||2||
page 38, http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=38&L=18&id=1586

Here is something to consider, regarding fear:
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
आसा महला ३ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 3.
Aasaa, Third Mehl:
ਸਚੇ ਰਤੇ ਸੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੇ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੀ ਸੋਇ ॥
सचे रते से निरमले सदा सची सोइ ॥
Sacẖe raṯe se nirmale saḏā sacẖī so▫e.
Those who are imbued with the True Lord are spotless and pure; their reputation is forever true.
ਐਥੈ ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਪਦੇ ਆਗੈ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
ऐथै घरि घरि जापदे आगै जुगि जुगि परगटु होइ ॥१॥
Aithai gẖar gẖar jāpḏe āgai jug jug pargat ho▫e. ||1||
Here, they are known in each and every home, and hereafter, they are famous throughout the ages. ||1||
ਏ ਮਨ ਰੂੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਰੰਗੁਲੇ ਤੂੰ ਸਚਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਚੜਾਇ ॥
ए मन रूड़्हे रंगुले तूं सचा रंगु चड़ाइ ॥
Ė man rūṛĥai rangule ṯūʼn sacẖā rang cẖaṛā▫e.
O beauteous and joyful mind, imbue yourself with your true color.
ਰੂੜੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੇ ਰਪੈ ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਰੰਗੁ ਲਹੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
रूड़ी बाणी जे रपै ना इहु रंगु लहै न जाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Rūṛī baṇī je rapai nā ih rang lahai na jā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
If you imbue yourself with the Beauteous Word of the Guru's Bani, then this color shall never fade away. ||1||Pause||
ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਮੈਲੇ ਅਤਿ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੀ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥
हम नीच मैले अति अभिमानी दूजै भाइ विकार ॥
Ham nīcẖ maile aṯ abẖimānī ḏūjai bẖā▫e vikār.
I am lowly, filthy, and totally egotistical; I am attached to the corruption of duality.
ਗੁਰਿ ਪਾਰਸਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਹੋਏ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਪਾਰ ॥੨॥
गुरि पारसि मिलिऐ कंचनु होए निरमल जोति अपार ॥२॥
Gur pāras mili▫ai kancẖan ho▫e nirmal joṯ apār. ||2||
But meeting with the Guru, the Philosopher's Stone, I am transformed into gold; I am blended with the Pure Light of the Infinite Lord. ||2||
ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਰੰਗੀਐ ਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਰੰਗੁ ਚੜਾਉ ॥
बिनु गुर कोइ न रंगीऐ गुरि मिलिऐ रंगु चड़ाउ ॥
Bin gur ko▫e na rangī▫ai gur mili▫ai rang cẖaṛā▫o.
Without the Guru, no one is imbued with the color of the Lord's Love; meeting with the Guru, this color is applied.
ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭੈ ਭਾਇ ਜੋ ਰਤੇ ਸਿਫਤੀ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਉ ॥੩॥
गुर कै भै भाइ जो रते सिफती सचि समाउ ॥३॥
Gur kai bẖai bẖā▫e jo raṯe sifṯī sacẖ samā▫o. ||3||
Those who are imbued with the Fear, and the Love of the Guru, are absorbed in the Praise of the True Lord. ||3||
ਭੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਲਾਗਿ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਨਾ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
भै बिनु लागि न लगई ना मनु निरमलु होइ ॥
Bẖai bin lāg na lag▫ī nā man nirmal ho▫e.
Without fear, the cloth is not dyed, and the mind is not rendered pure.
ਬਿਨੁ ਭੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਠਾਉ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੪॥
बिनु भै करम कमावणे झूठे ठाउ न कोइ ॥४॥
Bin bẖai karam kamāvṇe jẖūṯẖe ṯẖā▫o na ko▫e. ||4||
Without fear, the performance of rituals is false, and one finds no place of rest. ||4||
ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਪੇ ਰੰਗੇ ਸੁ ਰਪਸੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
जिस नो आपे रंगे सु रपसी सतसंगति मिलाइ ॥
Jis no āpe range so rapsī saṯsangaṯ milā▫e.
Only those whom the Lord imbues, are so imbued; they join the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation.
ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਊਪਜੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਸਚਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥੫॥
पूरे गुर ते सतसंगति ऊपजै सहजे सचि सुभाइ ॥५॥
Pūre gur ṯe saṯsangaṯ ūpjai sėhje sacẖ subẖā▫e. ||5||
From the Perfect Guru, the Sat Sangat emanates, and one easily merges into the Love of the True One. ||5||
ਬਿਨੁ ਸੰਗਤੀ ਸਭਿ ਐਸੇ ਰਹਹਿ ਜੈਸੇ ਪਸੁ ਢੋਰ ॥
बिनु संगती सभि ऐसे रहहि जैसे पसु ढोर ॥
Bin sangṯī sabẖ aise rahėh jaise pas dẖor.
Without the Sangat, the Company of the Holy, all remain like beasts and animals.
ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਕੀਤੇ ਤਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਸਭਿ ਚੋਰ ॥੬॥
जिन्हि कीते तिसै न जाणन्ही बिनु नावै सभि चोर ॥६॥
Jiniĥ kīṯe ṯisai na jāṇanĥī bin nāvai sabẖ cẖor. ||6||
They do not know the One who created them; without the Name, all are thieves. ||6||
ਇਕਿ ਗੁਣ ਵਿਹਾਝਹਿ ਅਉਗਣ ਵਿਕਣਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥
इकि गुण विहाझहि अउगण विकणहि गुर कै सहजि सुभाइ ॥
Ik guṇ vihājẖėh a▫ugaṇ vikṇahi gur kai sahj subẖā▫e.
Some purchase merits and sell off their demerits; through the Guru, they obtain peace and poise.
ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਉ ਪਾਇਆ ਵੁਠਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਆਇ ॥੭॥
गुर सेवा ते नाउ पाइआ वुठा अंदरि आइ ॥७॥
Gur sevā ṯe nā▫o pā▫i▫ā vuṯẖā anḏar ā▫e. ||7||
Serving the Guru, they obtain the Name, which comes to dwell deep within. ||7||
ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਿਰਿ ਧੰਧੈ ਲਾਇ ॥
सभना का दाता एकु है सिरि धंधै लाइ ॥
Sabẖnā kā ḏāṯā ek hai sir ḏẖanḏẖai lā▫e.
The One Lord is the Giver of all; He assigns tasks to each and every person.
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਾਇ ਸਵਾਰਿਅਨੁ ਸਬਦੇ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥੮॥੯॥੩੧॥
नानक नामे लाइ सवारिअनु सबदे लए मिलाइ ॥८॥९॥३१॥
Nānak nāme lā▫e savāri▫an sabḏe la▫e milā▫e. ||8||9||31||
O Nanak, the Lord embellishes us with the Name; attached to the Word of the Shabad, we are merged into Him. ||8||9||31||
[SIZE=-2]Guru Granth Sahib Page 427[/SIZE]

In humans, a lack of fear, or absence of fear means possibly a lack of bravery, as if you do not know the meaning of the word fear, how can you be brave, in fact, if you do know know the meaning of the word fear, then how can you love?

Harry ji I would take the above to be true. However, I think there is more to it than that. It has to do with the actual fear response, the psychological and physiological. But before we look into fear and why it maybe necessary, we must first learn what fear is. We must intuitively come to understand fear. So far we have only been put into a state of trance and that's fine but, the next step is to see it's underlying reality.

(This is what I think you saying when you say "we must know the meaning of fear to be brave")


Now the Abrahamic religions say something like: You must love God/Jesus and if you don't you'll burn in hell for eternity. (not based on a reading of Bible, I have heard this)

The second half of that creates fear. So are fear and love are the states that Abrahamic religions are trying to create simultaneously? (whether intentionally or unintentionally)

The Sikh Gurus are also participating in this conversation, as seen above and below:
ਜਤੁ ਪਾਹਾਰਾ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ ॥
जतु पाहारा धीरजु सुनिआरु ॥
Jaṯ pāhārā ḏẖīraj suni▫ār.
Let self-control be the furnace, and patience the goldsmith.
ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ ॥
अहरणि मति वेदु हथीआरु ॥
Ahraṇ maṯ veḏ hathī▫ār.
Let understanding be the anvil, and spiritual wisdom the tools.
ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ॥
भउ खला अगनि तप ताउ ॥
Bẖa▫o kẖalā agan ṯap ṯā▫o.
With the Fear of God as the bellows, fan the flames of tapa, the body's inner heat.
ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ ॥
भांडा भाउ अम्रितु तितु ढालि ॥
Bẖāʼndā bẖā▫o amriṯ ṯiṯ dẖāl.
In the crucible of love, melt the Nectar of the Name,
ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥
घड़ीऐ सबदु सची टकसाल ॥
Gẖaṛī▫ai sabaḏ sacẖī taksāl.
and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God.
ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰ ॥
जिन कउ नदरि करमु तिन कार ॥
Jin ka▫o naḏar karam ṯin kār.
Such is the karma of those upon whom He has cast His Glance of Grace.
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
नानक नदरी नदरि निहाल ॥३८॥
Nānak naḏrī naḏar nihāl. ||38||
O Nanak, the Merciful Lord, by His Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38||
[SIZE=-2]Guru Granth Sahib Page 8

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ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
सिरीरागु महला १ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 1.
Siree Raag, First Mehl:
ਭਲੀ ਸਰੀ ਜਿ ਉਬਰੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੁਈ ਘਰਾਹੁ ॥
भली सरी जि उबरी हउमै मुई घराहु ॥
Bẖalī sarī jė ubrī ha▫umai mu▫ī gẖarāhu.
It all worked out-I was saved, and the egotism within my heart was subdued.
ਦੂਤ ਲਗੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਵੇਸਾਹੁ ॥
दूत लगे फिरि चाकरी सतिगुर का वेसाहु ॥
Ḏūṯ lage fir cẖākrī saṯgur kā vesāhu.
The evil energies have been made to serve me, since I placed my faith in the True Guru.
ਕਲਪ ਤਿਆਗੀ ਬਾਦਿ ਹੈ ਸਚਾ ਵੇਪਰਵਾਹੁ ॥੧॥
कलप तिआगी बादि है सचा वेपरवाहु ॥१॥
Kalap ṯi▫āgī bāḏ hai sacẖā veparvāhu. ||1||
I have renounced my useless schemes, by the Grace of the True, Carefree Lord. ||1||
ਮਨ ਰੇ ਸਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਭਉ ਜਾਇ ॥
मन रे सचु मिलै भउ जाइ ॥
Man re sacẖ milai bẖa▫o jā▫e.
O mind, meeting with the True One, fear departs.
ਭੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਕਿਉ ਥੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
भै बिनु निरभउ किउ थीऐ गुरमुखि सबदि समाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Bẖai bin nirbẖa▫o ki▫o thī▫ai gurmukẖ sabaḏ samā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Without the Fear of God, how can anyone become fearless? Become Gurmukh, and immerse yourself in the Shabad. ||1||Pause||
ਕੇਤਾ ਆਖਣੁ ਆਖੀਐ ਆਖਣਿ ਤੋਟਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
केता आखणु आखीऐ आखणि तोटि न होइ ॥
Keṯā ākẖaṇ ākẖī▫ai ākẖaṇ ṯot na ho▫e.
How can we describe Him with words? There is no end to the descriptions of Him.
ਮੰਗਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੇਤੜੇ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੋ ਸੋਇ ॥
मंगण वाले केतड़े दाता एको सोइ ॥
Mangaṇ vāle keṯ▫ṛe ḏāṯā eko so▫e.
There are so many beggars, but He is the only Giver.
ਜਿਸ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣ ਹੈ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
जिस के जीअ पराण है मनि वसिऐ सुखु होइ ॥२॥
Jis ke jī▫a parāṇ hai man vasi▫ai sukẖ ho▫e. ||2||
He is the Giver of the soul, and the praanaa, the breath of life; when He dwells within the mind, there is peace. ||2||
ਜਗੁ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਬਾਜੀ ਬਨੀ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਖੇਲਾਇ ॥
जगु सुपना बाजी बनी खिन महि खेलु खेलाइ ॥
Jag supnā bājī banī kẖin mėh kẖel kẖelā▫e.
The world is a drama, staged in a dream. In a moment, the play is played out.
ਸੰਜੋਗੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਏਕਸੇ ਵਿਜੋਗੀ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
संजोगी मिलि एकसे विजोगी उठि जाइ ॥
Sanjogī mil ekse vijogī uṯẖ jā▫e.
Some attain union with the Lord, while others depart in separation.
ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਸੋ ਥੀਐ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਰਣਾ ਜਾਇ ॥੩॥
जो तिसु भाणा सो थीऐ अवरु न करणा जाइ ॥३॥
Jo ṯis bẖāṇā so thī▫ai avar na karṇā jā▫e. ||3||
Whatever pleases Him comes to pass; nothing else can be done. ||3||
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਸਤੁ ਵੇਸਾਹੀਐ ਸਚੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਸਚੁ ਰਾਸਿ ॥
गुरमुखि वसतु वेसाहीऐ सचु वखरु सचु रासि ॥
Gurmukẖ vasaṯ vesāhī▫ai sacẖ vakẖar sacẖ rās.
The Gurmukhs purchase the Genuine Article. The True Merchandise is purchased with the True Capital.
ਜਿਨੀ ਸਚੁ ਵਣੰਜਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ॥
जिनी सचु वणंजिआ गुर पूरे साबासि ॥
Jinī sacẖ vaṇaṇji▫ā gur pūre sābās.
Those who purchase this True Merchandise through the Perfect Guru are blessed.
ਨਾਨਕ ਵਸਤੁ ਪਛਾਣਸੀ ਸਚੁ ਸਉਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੧੧॥
नानक वसतु पछाणसी सचु सउदा जिसु पासि ॥४॥११॥
Nānak vasaṯ pacẖẖāṇsī sacẖ sa▫uḏā jis pās. ||4||11||
O Nanak, one who stocks this True Merchandise shall recognize and realize the Genuine Article. ||4||11||



Some shabads to contemplate.

 

[Harry Haller]

Ishnaji,

I confess to being slightly confused, as we have a mention of heaven and hell, sin and abrahamic angels!

help!

 

[BhagatSingh]

Harry ji and Ishna ji,
I would try meditating and contemplating on both the literal and metaphorical interpretations of Gurbani. It is only when all perspectives are brought together and seen to be an expression of Divine light, that one comes to be enlightened.

The thing is when you rationally solve out a translation in your head, a translation that you think is false, you end up with a metaphorical reading. Correct?
But it is because you have been born into this modern environment, that you saw the literal interpretation as false.

Keep that in mind and continue reading.
In the very beginning of Jap ji Sahib. Guru Nanak says that Truth is:
ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥
आदि सचु जुगादि सचु ॥
Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.
True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.

ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥੧॥
है भी सचु नानक होसी भी सचु ॥१॥
Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||
True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||

So that which is always True, is the Truth.

Now your modern interpretation of a translation may not have been seen as Truth through-out the ages. It may not be true tomorrow. Indeed the literal interpretation also falls in the same trap.

Your modern upbringing is also false. As it is only here now. It may change in the future. Certainly in the past, this upbringing was not there.

Not being struck by death and not being struck by fear (of death), both point towards a greater Truth that cannot be conceptualized. When it is (in the mind) conceptualized, that is, when the Truth is given some form in the mind as anything other than an intuitive understanding, two expressions of the Truth will contradict.

To repeat, when you try to hold the Truth-elephant in your mind, you will fail to hug the entire creature, and will end up hugging only one false notion. 1. Not being struck by death or 2. not being struck by fear, 1. abrahamic faiths vs 2. eastern faiths.

So how to hold the entire elephant?

Now this maybe getting old and maybe frustrating as an answer, but I cannot stress it enough... How to see the greater Truth? kiv sacheara hoiea kiv koorhe tutte paal? Hukam rajai chalna nanak likhiya naal. Nanak says, Walk in the way of the Hukam. (Which happens to be the first pauri that follows the description of Truth above...)

Yes we have read some shabads of Gurbani now. Great! When I have done so, I find that it is more important to step away from the computer and go into solitude rather than try to solve it out and reply to people.

Cheers peacesign

*then steps away from the computer and falls asleep* Hahaha!

 

[Ishna]

Sorry Harry bhaji, long day at work and my brain is fried.

Consider Heaven and Hell as states of mind / being and not literal places. You go to hell when you perform bad deeds in life and regret them, always look over your shoulder, never feel the love of Waheguru Ji. You are slaughtered mercilessly by the messenger of death when you die because you are only connected to this transient material place and never considered the reality of Waheguru (Naam).

I think references to the beings of Dharamraj and Azrael are simply metaphores using Hindu and Muslim (respectively) terms for the angel of death.

Happy to stand corrected, my four cylinder brain can't keep up with everyone else's 351 V8s today!

 

[Harry Haller]

Bhagatsinghji

ok my head hurts from all this thinking, I like reading other peoples interpretations, its easier!

My interpretation would be that the concepts of heaven, hell and abrahamic angels are mentioned in the same way that hindu gods are mentioned, not as a validation, but as a point of reference, and in asking why they are mentioned, I have become one of the same Murakhs that that asked if the Hindu gods were real as they were mentioned,

This is the first time I have tried to decipher gurbani, and if you do this on a regular basis, I am not surprised that your brain is in the state that it is.

I looked at your webpage in your absence, as I really did miss your style of writing, you are a very gifted fellow!

I have one question for you now, you are young, my dear little brother, in a simple answer, do you wish you had found sikhi later in life, to give you a chance to swim in the mire?

I have never meditated in my life, however, I am going to try and give it a go, any tips :interestedsingh:

 

[Harry Haller]

snap

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Harry Veera
You must seriously start doing Sadhana,I don't think anyone has found God by talking about him on a forum but if someone has perhaps he could correct me.I prefer not to call it meditation but stop speaking about him and start listening to him like Abraham.
I'm new to forums , I think it's tradition lies in the Agora.Meant no disrespect to it ,but Sadhana is essential.
Questions and details forget them,you can see the Sunrise with your eyes but it is something else to feel the warmth of the sun in your self.
Our Guru said the one who knows him keeps quiet.So you are unlikely to learn the secret from another.
So you have to go to the Guru there is no other way,talking about what the Guru said is not the way that is a discourse.
I hope you don't mind me being frank Veera, I hope the lecture helps it starts with the importance of that early hour (I know like me you are up early)So Start and then we can discourse while being on the road ,rather than a discourse whilst reading the map.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/GK4307fPaPY"

 

[Annie]

Re: Sikhs Should Be Afraid of Nothing

Spnadmin ji, I'm not sure whether the following post is too far off topic. I will understand if it needs to be removed or moved to another thread.

Over the recent past few months, when I'm feeling anxious, I try to take a step back in my mind and say to myself "ok, so I'm feeling anxious, I accept that, but it doesn't have to define me. I am not what I'm feeling." And I find that helps. I have to keep reminding myself though, to take that step back and see a difference between "me" and "my feelings". See if you can try this?

I was thinking about this yesterday and it made me wonder... If I am not defined by my fears, would it be logical to say that I am also not defined by my bravery? If so, what AM I defined by?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Dear Annie Ji

While we are waiting for phenji may I add that perhaps we are defined by your actions,if this is off topic I couldn't care less ,If I'm to be brave, I should overcome my fear and act bravely!Then I'm defined as brave.If I had no fear in the first place how am I fearless?

 

[Ishna]

Annie Ji

Perhaps "defined" was a poor choice of words by me. It's like, when you're angry it's easy to fall into a rage and enact that rage, but most of us can take a breath, take a step back and work through the emotion to a more constructive end. I think we can apply the same tactic to fear, as fear is an emotion, not a state of being, I think.

I think some wisdom lies in one of the first posts (I think it was by Harry Ji) with regards to "Nirbhao" as mentioned in Mul Mantar and that we should try to cultivate fearlessness. There is also a line in Sukhmani which makes reference to "the person who does not fear anyone nor incites fear in anyone else" -- I will quote when I get home from work.

Ishna

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry Veera
You must seriously start doing Sadhana,I don't think anyone has found God by talking about him on a forum but if someone has perhaps he could correct me.I prefer not to call it meditation but stop speaking about him and start listening to him like Abraham.
I'm new to forums , I think it's tradition lies in the Agora.Meant no disrespect to it ,but Sadhana is essential.
Questions and details forget them,you can see the Sunrise with your eyes but it is something else to feel the warmth of the sun in your self.
Our Guru said the one who knows him keeps quiet.So you are unlikely to learn the secret from another.
So you have to go to the Guru there is no other way,talking about what the Guru said is not the way that is a discourse.
I hope you don't mind me being frank Veera, I hope the lecture helps it starts with the importance of that early hour (I know like me you are up early)So Start and then we can discourse while being on the road ,rather than a discourse whilst reading the map.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/GK4307fPaPY"

Sinnerji,

I absolutely agree with you 100%, my wife and I have decided to mediate together tonight, neither of us have ever mediated before !

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Harry Veera can I suggest you find an independent mediator lol

Sadhana is a very personal mind-Self journey done by instinct daily,best done early when the world sleeps,not really a set meditation in the evening ,that sounds a bit like a hobby Veera ,as for trying it as a couple God forbid!

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Sādhanā (Sanskrit साधना, literally "a means of accomplishing something")[1] is spiritual practice.[2] It includes a variety of disciplines in Hindu, Sikh , Buddhist and Muslim traditions that are followed in order to achieve various spiritual or ritual objectives.The term "sādhanā" means spiritual exertion towards an intended goal. A person undertaking such a practice is known as a sadhu or a sadhaka. The goal of sādhanā is to attain some level of spiritual realization, which can be either enlightenment, pure love of God (prema), liberation (moksha)

Exert your self not your mind as if you are not trying, don't be clever be simple ,concentrate /focus on your favourite GurBani line, strip yourself back, be real ,try not be aware of a task ,just be truly clean for a moment,try to quiet your mind for a while,try not to think, feel it, realise it.
Take Care Veera