Something Interesting: Silent Brahmgianis

[Jaspreet08]

THUS my ONE and ONLY "TAKE" (AASRA) is SGGS...no need for any others...no shortcuts...no gyanis barhm or not...

Exactly.

Here is the link:
Gurbani Updesh (www.GurbaniUpdesh.org): 13-Giani Thakur Singh Ji (Patiala Wale)

This is the link for his katha on the SGGS done in San Fransisco.

Gurbani Updesh (www.GurbaniUpdesh.org): 00-Gurprasad (12 CD Set)

Just a personal note: I haven't heard too many Katha vachiks (is that right?), but I really enjoyed Giani Thakur Singh Ji's katha. He seems so down to earth while talking about these extraordinary Shabads.

 

[spnadmin]

Sikhism has provided a working alternative to these arcane hierarchies. In meditation I frequently am looking through a large window that has been thrown open and a clear blue sky spreads as far as my mind can behold.

Dhan, Dhan, Guru Nanak Maharj Dev ji who has liberated the world! Pray that we will see!

 

[sunsingh]

New age teachers post a lot of interesting and sometimes rather questionable things.... I say stick to Guru ji as this is our path. If it's in our karam to gain sangat with a bhramgyani or a sant than it will happen.

 

[pk70]

( quote aad0002 Ji)
Dhan, Dhan, Guru Nanak Maharj Dev ji who has liberated the world! Pray that we will see!

Thanks for speaking for me too, Bhain ji:happy:

 

[Jaspreet08]

Since we were discussing Silent Brahmgianis - I like to refer to Lao Tzu's famous line from Tao Te Ching:

"Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know."

 

[spnadmin]

I admit that I speak but I do not know. So thanks for keeping me straight.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

how would we know what Lao Tze "spoke" ?? didnt he write it down for us ??
imho the "speak" is referring to idle chatter..of empty drums making the most noise type..
Guru Nanak ji advises us..Kichh sunneayeh..kicch KAHEAH nanak..?? meaning listen and ASK ..intelligently !!!....but of course Gurbani tells us to have the utmost SEHAJ..in eating/sleeping/talking/asking....all must be controlled and moderated...BUT NOT TOTAL ABSTINENCE from anything - incluidng asking questions.
Guru nanak ji ANSWERED ALL QUESTIONS asked of HIM...Siddh Ghhosht is a good example of this approach.
Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Since we were discussing Silent Brahmgianis - I like to refer to Lao Tzu's famous line from Tao Te Ching:

"Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know."

respectfully i submit that our Gurus sahibaans "spoke"....a whole lot..in fact they spoke 1429 pages of a huge granth called Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee
Guru Nank Ji travelled the entire known WORLD...not only SPEAKING....to the lowliest of the low..but also aginst TYRANNY of the HIGH and Mighty...berating them to their face for cruelty, zulm, unfairness,....aginst the "religious intolerance of the religious leaders..the Pandits, the Mullahs, the Brahmins, the Kazis...their "FARCE", their HYPOCRACY....their SUBTERFUGE.
I respectfully put that "SILENCE IS NOT GOLDEN"....in the face of uncertainty, religious intolerance, racist behaviour, unequal wealth distribution..etc etc etc that is happening even TODAY. IF GURU NANAK SPOKE OUT LOUDLY..what reason have his followers for "keeping silent" ?? The WEST certainly has aLOT of these racists/modern day robbers like Sajjan thuggh..etc etc etc...Keeping SILENT means ....................acceptance..complicity..agreement..partners in CRIME.
Babbar attacked and ransaacked Emnabad..did Guru nanak ji keep SILENT ?? NO Babr vani is proof that Guru Ji faced up to the aggressor and told him so to his face. IT takes a BRAVE MAN to do that..and a Brahmgiani is definitely such a Man.....Guru nanak ji went to Babars PRISON....how many such "Silent Brahmgianis" are in PRISON ?? Genuine Brahmgianis like Baba MAHARAJ SINGH died in Prison in Singapore in 1920's...Bhai Randhir Singh Spent decades in Prisons of India...Baba Jarnail Singh Bhinderawalleh...didnt keep SILENT....so many examples can be given from Sikh History right from 1469...till TODAY...Sikhism is NOT a religion of SILENCE. We always SPEAK up for the Downtrodden..the underprivileged..the victims....
I am still grappling with this "silence is golden "types...i just dotn get it...
Maybe i am just "too outspoken"..or i may become accepted as a brahmgiani too...( if i just kept my big mouth SHUT inspit e of everything..BUT no chance of that....)
Regards..
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

You said something that no one can argue with Sikhism is NOT a religion of SILENCE. We always SPEAK up for the Downtrodden. And the examples you give are on point, without argument again. But there is a not-so-subtle difference between your point of view and what Jaspreet is expressing. Forgive me. You are not the silence-is-golden type. You are also not going to talk me deaf, dumb and blind.

Jaspreet is referring to the type of "bhramgyani" who lectures and goes on and on and on forever, with abstractions and complicated theoretical presentations, all designed to mystify the audience and make the audience think that they are onto something that is very deep. And that the average person is too ignorant to understand. Special exercises are required to get to that "deep thought."

Then there are those who are concise and use vivid examples that an ordinary person will understand quickly. So, no! Guru Nanak and Bhai Randhir Singh were not silent (as in mute), but rather they were quiet, as in patiently urging the right behavior and right thinking, prodding those around them with language that goes straight to the brain and the heart at the same time.

I heard someone speak today about anger. He held up a large blank card using only enough force to keep the card from falling to the ground. No forceful grabbing or gripping with his fingers. And then he said, This is how you hold onto people and things in your life. Lightly. Just enough to keep things going. Concise, vivid, simple, deep.

And you talk that way too. Forgive me again.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

dear aad Jio...
i am listening......... to Japreet Ji.........you.......as well as Giani Thakur Singh Ji;s katha......maybe i will get that subtle difference...sooner than i think..Guru Ji Bless.
Gyani Jarnail Singh

 

[Jaspreet08]

Gianiji, my point with the Lao Tzu quote was simply referring to empty talk. As you said "empty drums making the most noise". Even in Anand Sahib, Maharaj ji says "Ik fireh ghanayray karahi galaa galle kinai na paaiaa".

I'm wondering too why these Brahmgiani are silent. There is enough ignorance around in the world.. but that is the hukam they have. Maybe we have become too cynical to listen to them now. Don't know.

Jaspreet

 

[spnadmin]

Jios,

I am not sure if this article is relevant to the thread, but am posting the link anyway. There is an interesting perspective in it on where silence fits in.

SILENCE

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Jios,

I am not sure if this article is relevant to the thread, but am posting the link anyway. There is an interesting perspective in it on where silence fits in.

SILENCE

aadjio,
gurfateh.

I cant speak for others..BUT I found the article refreshingly educative...and inspiring.
Thanks a million. Am going to use it as basic resource for my next two or three Gurbani Vichaar lessons. Beautiful piece.

Gyani Jarnail Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Gianiji, my point with the Lao Tzu quote was simply referring to empty talk. As you said "empty drums making the most noise". Even in Anand Sahib, Maharaj ji says "Ik fireh ghanayray karahi galaa galle kinai na paaiaa".

I'm wondering too why these Brahmgiani are silent. There is enough ignorance around in the world.. but that is the hukam they have. Maybe we have become too cynical to listen to them now. Don't know.

Jaspreet

Jaspreet Jio,
Gurfateh.

No problem...If its His HUKM..we will soon KNOW... just take one step at a time...we are all learning. Let me finish listening to all the katha from Giani Ji and maybe i will be able to input soemthing different...stay in chardeekalla always...
Regards
Gyani Jarnail Singh

 

[Jaspreet08]

SILENCE

Very nice article. The shabads that were cited were excellent.

 

[lotus lion]

Hi,

Been reading this thread and there was an article that i read on Gurbani.org which talks about the modes in which operate.

THREE MODES OF MATERIAL NATURE (TREGUN MAYA...)

Please do read the above.

To summerise, these modes are:

Taamas, Raajas, and Saatava. Ignorance, Passion, and Goodness respectively.

A person operating in the mode of Taamas is someone who is spiritually ignorant. Qualities and Characterisics include idleness, ignorance, dullness, negligence to name but a few.

If a person is operating in the mode of Raajas, they are said to have unlimited desires and cling to objects and entities. All actions performed by a person in this mode are to obtain ever more material which only entrenches them further. Characteristics and traits of a person in this mode include lust, fierce competition, power struggle, influence, rat-race, status and so forth.

The last mode described Saatava is probably the best mode to be operating in if one had to choose. Characteristics include cultivating virtue and operating with a good heart.

The only problem with operating in the mode of Saatava is that one feels more advanced in the matters of spirituality which only hardens the ego.

The Guru Granth Sahib tells us that one has to transend these modes and not be under their influence.

This can only be done by understanding the Scriptures, Performing Right action, being in company of like minded people and so forth.

I personally feel, and must stress personally, that the 'silent Bramgyanis' Could most possibly be operating in the mode of Saatava which explains how they carry themselves.

A person who truely understands the nature of God, such as the Gurus and Bhagats, help everyone for the sake of it, simply clearly and consisely. They are at complete ease with their knowlege and share it openly with everyone.

My stance on the issue,

Lotus

 

[sunsingh]

Here is an excerpt from Sant Jagjit Singh ji's jeevan-sakhi which may offer some insight into this topic:

There are two types of knowledge by name 'pra'- spiritual knowledge, and apra' -
worldly knowledge. One type is where one learns about ways of the world, such as in
behaviour, politics, etc. The first is Brahm knowledge where one comes to know of spirituality
and gives up non-spirituality elements. When one acquires knowledge of Granths and spiritual
knowledge, that person can benefit the whole universe. However, some Mahapursh are like a
log afloat on a river. They themselves can float and reach from one side of a river bank to
another, but can't help others stay afloat or get across. These Mahapurshs can only help a few.
They are like sandalwood, which can impart its smell into specific plants but cannot make them
into sandalwood in turn. Other Mahapursh are such,

A Gurmukh who by giving a small drop of His naam can help millions.

These Mahapursh are considered very special. Many Mahapurshs are bhajnandi who
do meditation, but are not vidiwans having no shastri knowledge. Many Mahapurshs are
vidiwans but are not bhajnandi. When both practises come together as in the knowledge of
seven Shastaras with spiritual knowledege, then such a Mahapursh can benefit many. Without
knowledge one is like that person who watches dazed when he cannot understand the
language of the persons around him, like a cow struggling in mud. That is the reason why one
has to squire knowledge. To study then make others study by giving them this offering is the
principle of a vidiwan. In the same manner the principle of a soldier is to protect one's country,
for a family man it is to provide for his spouse, and for a humble servant it its to serve
everyone regardless of others caste & creed. Only a knowledgeable Mahapursh can explain
how to respect one's parents, country, and religion. He can give knowledge about Gurmat and
thus steer the masses towards good.

 

[Jaspreet08]

To those of you who remember this post, some more clarification by Giani Thakur Singh Ji:

At another point in the katha, Gianiji says that the Brahmgianis are now gupt or silent now because people don't believe what they say. People now either don't follow their teachings or outright attack them for their teachings.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

jaspreet ji says..
At another point in the katha, Gianiji says that the Brahmgianis are now gupt or silent now because people don't believe what they say. People now either don't follow their teachings or outright attack them for their teachings.
...................

If we read Gurbani in SGGS..the GURUS faced the exact same treatment. Guru nanak Ji was called BHOOTNA..Betala...mad man...Ghost..and all kinds of unpleasnat names...
The Gurus were also attacked..jailed..tortured.....faced so much opposition to their teachings...
YET they didnt keep quiet..didnt go gupt..didnt become silent sadhus...they FOUGHT BACK...they WROTE the REVOLUTIONARY GURBANI....which we now have as an Example to follow in the SGGS...Gagan Dama Bajio....Time to FIGHT !!!
The GURUS WON..because their teachings are RIGHT..what they taught is RIGHT..what they did is RIGHT.
TRUTH has nothing to FEAR..or HIDE..or keep SILENT..ever..not then (1469-1708) not NOW..and Not in the Future...

SACH kadeh PURANa nahihn...patteh nahin....never Fades..never tears..frays..or gets out of date..
SACH...SATNAM carries a NO EXPIRY DATE....and it has AKal Purakh as its Backer...have no fear..SGGS is HERE...

Gyani Js

 

[Jaspreet08]

I'm suspecting that you're a Brahmgiani of the vocal type, Gianiji.

Agree with you. Truth needs to be told regardless of opposition.