Soul Transfer To Another Body

[Sherdil]

The insults to intelligence by some of you is shocking.
my original comment was


simply- means simple... as if explaining to a youngster !
Did i say anything about 7th sky and heavens and the words thundering down from the clouds ?

Japjisahib and sherdil have totally lost the plot and have nothing better than to poke at something and call it abrahamic.

Get this.............. the 'Unspoken words' still came straight from waheguru's mouth(mukh)!

does mukh= mouth ?
what is Gur-mukh ?
from whose mouth does one listen to in order to become gurmukh ?

The amount of backtracking you guys do is ridiculous.

Here is the remainder of your quote:

Besides the claimed '10 commandments'- (which we don't need to discuss!)
There is no other place or thing which has the direct words from Akaal purakh himself.

It's Dhur ki Bani.

You are the one who is comparing gurbani to the 10 commandments.

I asked a simple question of Chaz ji, which he doesn't want to answer, so I'll ask it to you. Are the words we are writing on this forum also from Waheguru?

 

[Luckysingh]

The amount of backtracking you guys do is ridiculous.


You are the one who is comparing gurbani to the 10 commandments.

I asked a simple question of Chaz ji, which he doesn't want to answer, so I'll ask it to you. Are the words we are writing on this forum also from Waheguru?

Didn't I say that, I'm not discussing 10 commandments, but that its the only claimed subject to come directly from God without a middleman ?

Who is being ridiculous ?
and who all of a sudden seems to understand the sargun and nirgun manifestations but has no desire to understand the subtle/nirgun ATMA or SOUL ???

I gave you countless questions earlier, which you ignorantly did not answer.

Stop making sikhi into your own tailored version and misleading the younger youth.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਬਾਜੀਗਰਿ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਾਜੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
Bājīgar jaise bājī pā▫ī.
The director stages the play,
ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪ ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ॥
Nānā rūp bẖekẖ ḏikẖlā▫ī.
playing the many characters in different costumes;
ਸਾਂਗੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥
Sāʼng uṯār thamiĥa▫o pāsārā.
but when the play ends, he takes off the costumes,
ਤਬ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥
Ŧab eko ekankārā. ||1||
and then he is one, and only one. ||1||
ਕਵਨ ਰੂਪ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਓ ਬਿਨਸਾਇਓ ॥
Kavan rūp ḏaristi▫o binsā▫i▫o.
How many forms and images appeared and disappeared?
ਕਤਹਿ ਗਇਓ ਉਹੁ ਕਤ ਤੇ ਆਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Kaṯėh ga▫i▫o uho kaṯ ṯe ā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. Where have they gone? Where did they come from? ||1||Pause||

From Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji pg 736

I think what both of you are trying to say... The same thing, that really there is only one and that one is all no matter how we are experiencing existence as separateness but that's the illusion. We are not and never were something or someone separate. It's like the quote above we are merely characters in a play. But just like the actor becomes a character, that consciousness was always the actor's even while playing that part... Even if the actor is so engrossed in his part that forgets his true identity. It's this realization that is the message, and there are no words to describe it. It has to be experienced...

 

[Sherdil]

From Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji pg 736

I think what both of you are trying to say... The same thing, that really there is only one and that one is all no matter how we are experiencing existence as separateness but that's the illusion. We are not and never were something or someone separate. It's like the quote above we are merely characters in a play. But just like the actor becomes a character, that consciousness was always the actor's even while playing that part... Even if the actor is so engrossed in his part that forgets his true identity. It's this realization that is the message, and there are no words to describe it. It has to be experienced...

:wahmunda:

 

[chazSingh]

The amount of backtracking you guys do is ridiculous.

Here is the remainder of your quote:


You are the one who is comparing gurbani to the 10 commandments.

I asked a simple question of Chaz ji, which he doesn't want to answer, so I'll ask it to you. Are the words we are writing on this forum also from Waheguru?

All is Waheguru, there is none other than waheguru Himself everywhere...so in that sense yes everything we write, speak, do, is waheguru...The Ego, desires, anger, greed, attachment...are all creations of waheguru..

BUT

We have allowed ourselves to become slaves of these..and they govern majority of the world in these times...we put our faith in these, in the created illusion, in the temporary existance...in all the joys, temptations, love of money etc etc etc and have lost almost complete touch/knowledge/experience with the permanent reality that exists within us all...

so we must try to listen only to GurBani because we know that it was formed and originated from the permament True forever existing, fearless, loving, forgiving aspect...and not the Ego ridden creation....it is current;y our only link back to our true permanent state...


Waheguru

 

[chazSingh]

Didn't I say that, I'm not discussing 10 commandments, but that its the only claimed subject to come directly from God without a middleman ?

Who is being ridiculous ?
and who all of a sudden seems to understand the sargun and nirgun manifestations but has no desire to understand the subtle/nirgun ATMA or SOUL ???

I gave you countless questions earlier, which you ignorantly did not answer.

Stop making sikhi into your own tailored version and misleading the younger youth.

Waheguru!!!!!

 

[Sherdil]

We have allowed ourselves to become slaves of these..and they govern majority of the world in these times...we put our faith in these, in the created illusion, in the temporary existance...in all the joys, temptations, love of money etc etc etc and have lost almost complete touch/knowledge/experience with the permanent reality that exists within us all...

so we must try to listen only to GurBani because we know that it was formed and originated from the permament True forever existing, fearless, loving, forgiving aspect...and not the Ego ridden creation....it is current;y our only link back to our true permanent state...

That was never the issue. You are preaching to the choir for no reason.

 

[chazSingh]

That was never the issue. You are preaching to the choir for no reason.

you asked me if everything we are writing here comes from God...

and i'm explaining to you based on what i feel Gurbani tells me the difference between words/actions/thoughts that originate from the Ego, and words that originate from the purity of the formless...

That's all...

but yes, everything exists within Waheguru Ji's Domain

 

[Harry Haller]

Gentlemen please let us get back to the subject which is "Soul transfer to another body"

 

[chazSingh]

Gentlemen please let us get back to the subject which is "Soul transfer to another body"

lets switch bodies for the day? we both work in I.T so shouldn't be that much of a shock to the system...

I do however eat my '5 a day' fruit and Veg and hit the gym...

 

[Luckysingh]

Gentlemen please let us get back to the subject which is "Soul transfer to another body"

There is no more discussion as far as I can see.
The discussion was sensibly answered mostly on the 1st page !

closing the thread would be an idea !

 

[Ambarsaria]

Fellow spners this is a great topic and in many ways it encourages us to go to the core of creator and creation and how we view or understand all that.

Let us look at the Creator's human production factory. Last I checked there was no shortage of souls ready for new bodies in the creator's warehouse. There appears to be a quality improvement in place. The new souls being produced appears to be updated models as the time goes on. Does creator have a stack of souls to be recycled? That is questionable as quality improvement makes such need kind of redundant. There is a huge cry and visualizations by human bodies to find ways to save parts of themselves including what they believe the soul is. Creator is aware of it and last I had a meeting with the creator there was a great laughter emanating from that direction as to how egoistically clever we try to be. The creator is quite proud of our ingenuity.

For me the more interesting question is not how a whole soul gets embedded or takes over a body while departing from another but how souls develop or continue to exist in the first place. For me Guru Nanak's soul has emebedded parts of itself in almost all Sikhs who have understood his teachings. Similarly human souls become a conglomeration of parts of many great and all others that they interact with. It is ever evolving in life and becoming part of others and this process does not stop when one dies. I don't see the soul as simply a boxed in entity that only can move as a whole. To the contrary I find it as an amalgamation that builds from and disburses into all around.

I have some other thoughts that I would like to share as this thread evolves.

Stand to be corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[chazSingh]

Fellow spners this is a great topic and in many ways it encourages us to go to the core of creator and creation and how we view or understand all that.

Let us look at the Creator's human production factory. Last I checked there was no shortage of souls ready for new bodies in the creator's warehouse. There appears to be a quality improvement in place. The new souls being produced appears to be updated models as the time goes on. Does creator have a stack of souls to be recycled? That is questionable as quality improvement makes such need kind of redundant. There is a huge cry and visualizations by human bodies to find ways to save parts of themselves including what they believe the soul is. Creator is aware of it and last I had a meeting with the creator there was a great laughter emanating from that direction as to how egoistically clever we try to be. The creator is quite proud of our ingenuity.

For me the more interesting question is not how a whole soul gets embedded or takes over a body while departing from another but how souls develop or continue to exist in the first place. For me Guru Nanak's soul has emebedded parts of itself in almost all Sikhs who have understood his teachings. Similarly human souls become a conglomeration of parts of many great and all others that they interact with. It is ever evolving in life and becoming part of others and this process does not stop when one dies. I don't see the soul as simply a boxed in entity that only can move as a whole. To the contrary I find it as an amalgamation that builds from and disburses into all around.

I have some other thoughts that I would like to share as this thread evolves.

Stand to be corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

VEry nice Ji,

I believe the Soul is not bound to time and space...it has no dimensions...it is beyond the boundaries of the body and the body is only required to provide a point of reference from in order to experience the created aspect...

i am sure many Gursiks have experienced themselves as part and parcel of the whole universe not bound to the limitations of their body...and something that has unlimited potential in their purest form.

God Bless Ji

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Here is my understanding of this topic (and by no means do I say that my interpretation is THE interpretation):

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਬਾਜੀਗਰਿ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਾਜੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
Bājīgar jaise bājī pā▫ī.
The director stages the play,
ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪ ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ॥
Nānā rūp bẖekẖ ḏikẖlā▫ī.
playing the many characters in different costumes;
ਸਾਂਗੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥
Sāʼng uṯār thamiĥa▫o pāsārā.
but when the play ends, he takes off the costumes,
ਤਬ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥
Ŧab eko ekankārā. ||1||
and then he is one, and only one. ||1||
ਕਵਨ ਰੂਪ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਓ ਬਿਨਸਾਇਓ ॥
Kavan rūp ḏaristi▫o binsā▫i▫o.
How many forms and images appeared and disappeared?
ਕਤਹਿ ਗਇਓ ਉਹੁ ਕਤ ਤੇ ਆਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Kaṯėh ga▫i▫o uho kaṯ ṯe ā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. Where have they gone? Where did they come from? ||1||Pause||

SGGS P. 736

Drawing from the above:

Every one of us are merely different characters played by the ONE universal consciousness / soul which is Waheguru Ji. But just like an actor can become engrossed in their part that they forget everything but the character they are playing, we too have forgotten our true origin.

Having said that, Waheguru Ji is not merely us. So the Creation IS the Creator, but the Creator is not merely the Creation...

Why did I bring this up? Because if the underlying soul is one in the same within all of us, but we are all just different characters played by one Creator... then the whole idea of transferring souls to another body becomes a moot point. At the base level of everything, all is ONE. There's nothing to 'transfer'! However, awareness can be shifted... and is what we are striving to do. To go within, in order to find that connection, that divine within us, to realize who we really are.

When I say I know that out of body experiences etc are real, I am not saying that I believe in anything 'paranormal' or 'supernatural' in fact... it's just what I said above... shifting awareness. We know that everything is really one, so at the base level of things we must have access to that knowledge.

In fact science is likeking the universe to a hologram. That would certainly explain how everything can be one, and yet when the hologram is viewed we see this illusion of space and time. Yet every bit of the hologram contains all of the information of the whole. The human brain is even being looked at in this light. Think of it... every atom in your body was once part of a star - and before that was part of the big bang! Your consciousness is not merely some byproduct of a bunch of atoms coming together and happening by accident. Just like the atoms have always existed, consciousness too has always existed. We are all just engrossed in this play right now, playing these characters, and we have forgotten who we are - a sort of universal collective amnesia!!

Albert Einstein:

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

 

[chazSingh]

Here is my understanding of this topic (and by no means do I say that my interpretation is THE interpretation):



Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji P. 736

Drawing from the above:

Every one of us are merely different characters played by the ONE universal consciousness / soul which is Waheguru Ji. But just like an actor can become engrossed in their part that they forget everything but the character they are playing, we too have forgotten our true origin.

Having said that, Waheguru Ji is not merely us. So the Creation IS the Creator, but the Creator is not merely the Creation...

Why did I bring this up? Because if the underlying soul is one in the same within all of us, but we are all just different characters played by one Creator... then the whole idea of transferring souls to another body becomes a moot point. At the base level of everything, all is ONE. There's nothing to 'transfer'! However, awareness can be shifted... and is what we are striving to do. To go within, in order to find that connection, that divine within us, to realize who we really are.

When I say I know that out of body experiences etc are real, I am not saying that I believe in anything 'paranormal' or 'supernatural' in fact... it's just what I said above... shifting awareness. We know that everything is really one, so at the base level of things we must have access to that knowledge.

In fact science is likeking the universe to a hologram. That would certainly explain how everything can be one, and yet when the hologram is viewed we see this illusion of space and time. Yet every bit of the hologram contains all of the information of the whole. The human brain is even being looked at in this light. Think of it... every atom in your body was once part of a star - and before that was part of the big bang! Your consciousness is not merely some byproduct of a bunch of atoms coming together and happening by accident. Just like the atoms have always existed, consciousness too has always existed. We are all just engrossed in this play right now, playing these characters, and we have forgotten who we are - a sort of universal collective amnesia!!

Albert Einstein:
[/COLOR][/B]

The problem is what you say is the Truth....but the Ego in us will not allow us to accept this truth...
only when grace is upon us and we are allowed to experience this does the Ego give into this Truth that all is God, and there is none other than Him...

ਆਪੇ ਗੁਣ ਆਪੇ ਕਥੈ ਆਪੇ ਸੁਣਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
आपे गुण आपे कथै आपे सुणि वीचारु ॥
Āpe guṇ āpe kathai āpe suṇ vīcẖār.
O Lord, You are Your Own Glorious Praise. You Yourself speak it; You Yourself hear it and contemplate it.
ਆਪੇ ਰਤਨੁ ਪਰਖਿ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਮੋਲੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥
आपे रतनु परखि तूं आपे मोलु अपारु ॥
Āpe raṯan parakẖ ṯūʼn āpe mol apār.
You Yourself are the Jewel, and You are the Appraiser. You Yourself are of Infinite Value.
ਸਾਚਉ ਮਾਨੁ ਮਹਤੁ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੧॥
साचउ मानु महतु तूं आपे देवणहारु ॥१॥
Sācẖa▫o mān mahaṯ ṯūʼn āpe ḏevaṇhār. ||1||
O True Lord, You are Honor and Glory; You Yourself are the Giver. ||1||
ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥
हरि जीउ तूं करता करतारु ॥
Har jī▫o ṯūʼn karṯā karṯār.
O Dear Lord, You are the Creator and the Cause.
ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਰਾਖੁ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਆਚਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जिउ भावै तिउ राखु तूं हरि नामु मिलै आचारु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ji▫o bẖāvai ṯi▫o rākẖ ṯūʼn har nām milai ācẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
If it is Your Will, please save and protect me; please bless me with the lifestyle of the Lord's Name. ||1||Pause||
ਆਪੇ ਹੀਰਾ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਆਪੇ ਰੰਗੁ ਮਜੀਠ ॥
आपे हीरा निरमला आपे रंगु मजीठ ॥
Āpe hīrā nirmalā āpe rang majīṯẖ.
You Yourself are the flawless diamond; You Yourself are the deep crimson color.
ਆਪੇ ਮੋਤੀ ਊਜਲੋ ਆਪੇ ਭਗਤ ਬਸੀਠੁ ॥
आपे मोती ऊजलो आपे भगत बसीठु ॥
Āpe moṯī ūjlo āpe bẖagaṯ basīṯẖ.
You Yourself are the perfect pearl; You Yourself are the devotee and the priest.
ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਲਾਹਣਾ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਡੀਠੁ ਅਡੀਠੁ ॥੨॥
गुर कै सबदि सलाहणा घटि घटि डीठु अडीठु ॥२॥
Gur kai sabaḏ salāhṇā gẖat gẖat dīṯẖ adīṯẖ. ||2||
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, You are praised. In each and every heart, the Unseen is seen. ||2||
ਆਪੇ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਬੋਹਿਥਾ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਰੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥
आपे सागरु बोहिथा आपे पारु अपारु ॥
Āpe sāgar bohithā āpe pār apār.
You Yourself are the ocean and the boat. You Yourself are this shore, and the one beyond.
ਸਾਚੀ ਵਾਟ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ਤੂੰ ਸਬਦਿ ਲਘਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
साची वाट सुजाणु तूं सबदि लघावणहारु ॥
Sācẖī vāt sujāṇ ṯūʼn sabaḏ lagẖāvaṇhār.
O All-knowing Lord, You are the True Way. The Shabad is the Navigator to ferry us across.
ਨਿਡਰਿਆ ਡਰੁ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਬਾਝੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
निडरिआ डरु जाणीऐ बाझु गुरू गुबारु ॥३॥
Nidri▫ā dar jāṇī▫ai bājẖ gurū gubār. ||3||
One who does not fear God shall live in fear; without the Guru, there is only pitch darkness. ||3||
ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਦੇਖੀਐ ਹੋਰੁ ਕੇਤੀ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
असथिरु करता देखीऐ होरु केती आवै जाइ ॥
Asthir karṯā ḏekẖī▫ai hor keṯī āvai jā▫e.
The Creator alone is seen to be Eternal; all others come and go.
ਆਪੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਏਕੁ ਤੂੰ ਹੋਰ ਬੰਧੀ ਧੰਧੈ ਪਾਇ ॥
आपे निरमलु एकु तूं होर बंधी धंधै पाइ ॥
Āpe nirmal ek ṯūʼn hor banḏẖī ḏẖanḏẖai pā▫e.
Only You, Lord, are Immaculate and Pure. All others are bound up in worldly pursuits.
ਗੁਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਸੇ ਉਬਰੇ ਸਾਚੇ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੪॥
गुरि राखे से उबरे साचे सिउ लिव लाइ ॥४॥
Gur rākẖe se ubre sācẖe si▫o liv lā▫e. ||4||
Those who are protected by the Guru are saved. They are lovingly attuned to the True Lord. ||4||

 

[linzer]

This Shabad relates nicely to the topic
S.G.G.S. page 967

ਲੰਗਰੁ ਚਲੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਟਿ ਨ ਆਵੀ ਖਟੀਐ ॥

Langar cẖalai gur sabaḏ har ṯot na āvī kẖatī▫ai.

The kitchen of the Guru's Divine word is opened and there occurs no deficiency in his earnings.


ਖਰਚੇ ਦਿਤਿ ਖਸੰਮ ਦੀ ਆਪ ਖਹਦੀ ਖੈਰਿ ਦਬਟੀਐ ॥

Kẖarcẖe ḏiṯ kẖasamm ḏī āp kẖahḏī kẖair ḏabtī▫ai.

He expends the Lord's gift himself, eats and copiously distributes the alms.


ਹੋਵੈ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਖਸੰਮ ਦੀ ਨੂਰੁ ਅਰਸਹੁ ਕੁਰਸਹੁ ਝਟੀਐ ॥

Hovai sifaṯ kẖasamm ḏī nūr arsahu kursahu jẖatī▫ai.

The Lord's praises are sung and Divine light descends from firmament and heavenly bodies.


ਤੁਧੁ ਡਿਠੇ ਸਚੇ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਮਲੁ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਦੀ ਕਟੀਐ ॥

Ŧuḏẖ diṯẖe sacẖe pāṯisāh mal janam janam ḏī katī▫ai.

Beholding thee, O True King, the filth of births over births is washed off.


ਸਚੁ ਜਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ਕਿਉ ਏਦੂ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਹਟੀਐ ॥

Sacẖ jė gur furmā▫i▫ā ki▫o eḏū bolhu hatī▫ai.

The Guru uttered the truth regarding his successor. Why should we then desist from proclaiming this?


ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਕਉਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਲਿਓ ਕਰਿ ਪੀਰਹੁ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮੁਰਟੀਐ ॥

Puṯrī ka▫ul na pāli▫o kar pīrahu kanĥ murtī▫ai.

The Guru's sons obeyed not his word and turned their back upon the proclaimed Guru.


ਦਿਲਿ ਖੋਟੈ ਆਕੀ ਫਿਰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਭਾਰੁ ਉਚਾਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਛਟੀਐ ॥

Ḏil kẖotai ākī firniĥ banėh bẖār ucẖā▫iniĥ cẖẖatī▫ai.

The evil-hearted sons turned rebels and making a sack-Load of sins, carry it on their head.


ਜਿਨਿ ਆਖੀ ਸੋਈ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਤੀ ਤਿਨੈ ਥਟੀਐ ॥

Jin ākẖī so▫ī kare jin kīṯī ṯinai thatī▫ai.

Whatever the Guru said, Lahna did the very same, was installed obeyed the order, was installed on the Guru's throne.


ਕਉਣੁ ਹਾਰੇ ਕਿਨਿ ਉਵਟੀਐ ॥੨॥

Ka▫uṇ hāre kin uvtī▫ai. ||2||

Lo, who has lost and who has won?


ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਤੀ ਸੋ ਮੰਨਣਾ ਕੋ ਸਾਲੁ ਜਿਵਾਹੇ ਸਾਲੀ ॥

Jin kīṯī so mannṇā ko sāl jivāhe sālī.

He, who rendered service, is worshipped as the Guru. Which one is bitter, thistle or rice?


ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਹੈ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਲੈ ਗਲਾ ਕਰੇ ਦਲਾਲੀ ॥

Ḏẖaram rā▫e hai ḏevṯā lai galā kare ḏalālī.

Weighing the merits of both the sides, the Guru, like the God, Righteous Judge, gave the reasonable decision.


ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਆਖੈ ਸਚਾ ਕਰੇ ਸਾ ਬਾਤ ਹੋਵੈ ਦਰਹਾਲੀ ॥

Saṯgur ākẖai sacẖā kare sā bāṯ hovai ḏarhālī.

Whatever the True Guru says, the True Lord does. That thing instantaneously comes to pass.


ਗੁਰ ਅੰਗਦ ਦੀ ਦੋਹੀ ਫਿਰੀ ਸਚੁ ਕਰਤੈ ਬੰਧਿ ਬਹਾਲੀ ॥

Gur angaḏ ḏī ḏohī firī sacẖ karṯai banḏẖ bahālī.

The sovereignty of Guru Angad was proclaimed and the True Creator confirmed it.


ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਾਇਆ ਪਲਟੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਲਿ ਤਖਤੁ ਬੈਠਾ ਸੈ ਡਾਲੀ ॥

Nānak kā▫i▫ā palat kar mal ṯakẖaṯ baiṯẖā sai dālī.

Changing his body, Nanak has occupied and sat on the throne, which has hundred of scions,


ਦਰੁ ਸੇਵੇ ਉਮਤਿ ਖੜੀ ਮਸਕਲੈ ਹੋਇ ਜੰਗਾਲੀ ॥

Ḏar seve umaṯ kẖaṛī maskalai ho▫e jangālī.

Standing at his door, his followers serve him, Thus is the rust of their sins scrubbed off.


ਦਰਿ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ਖਸੰਮ ਦੈ ਨਾਇ ਸਚੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਲਾਲੀ ॥

Ḏar ḏarves kẖasamm ḏai nā▫e sacẖai baṇī lālī.

The Guru is the saint of the Lord's door and loves the True Name and the Guru's word.


ਬਲਵੰਡ ਖੀਵੀ ਨੇਕ ਜਨ ਜਿਸੁ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਛਾਉ ਪਤ੍ਰਾਲੀ ॥

Balvand kẖīvī nek jan jis bahuṯī cẖẖā▫o paṯrālī.

Says Balwand, Guru Angad's consort, Khivi, is a good wife, who gives dense leafy shade of solace to all.


ਲੰਗਰਿ ਦਉਲਤਿ ਵੰਡੀਐ ਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਖੀਰਿ ਘਿਆਲੀ ॥

Langar ḏa▫ulaṯ vandī▫ai ras amriṯ kẖīr gẖi▫ālī.

She distributes the Guru's wealth in his kitchen, Nectar-sweet rice-pudding mixed with clarified butter.


ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਕੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਥੀਏ ਪਰਾਲੀ ॥

Gursikẖā ke mukẖ ujle manmukẖ thī▫e parālī.

Bright are the faces of the Guru's Sikhs and those of the perverse grow pale like straw.


ਪਏ ਕਬੂਲੁ ਖਸੰਮ ਨਾਲਿ ਜਾਂ ਘਾਲ ਮਰਦੀ ਘਾਲੀ ॥

Pa▫e kabūl kẖasamm nāl jāʼn gẖāl marḏī gẖālī.

When Angad rendered manly service, then did his Master approve of him.


ਮਾਤਾ ਖੀਵੀ ਸਹੁ ਸੋਇ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੋਇ ਉਠਾਲੀ ॥੩॥

Māṯā kẖīvī saho so▫e jin go▫e uṯẖālī. ||3||

Such is mother Khivi's spouse, who sustains the whole world.


ਹੋਰਿਂਓ ਗੰਗ ਵਹਾਈਐ ਦੁਨਿਆਈ ਆਖੈ ਕਿ ਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Horiʼn▫o gang vahā▫ī▫ai ḏuni▫ā▫ī ākẖai kė ki▫on.

Guru Nanak made the Ganges flow in another direction and people say, "What has he done?


ਨਾਨਕ ਈਸਰਿ ਜਗਨਾਥਿ ਉਚਹਦੀ ਵੈਣੁ ਵਿਰਿਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Nānak īsar jagnāth ucẖhaḏī vaiṇ viriki▫on.

God incarnate Nanak, the Lord of the world, has uttered the supremely sublime hymns.


ਮਾਧਾਣਾ ਪਰਬਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਨੇਤ੍ਰਿ ਬਾਸਕੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਿੜਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Māḏẖāṇā parbaṯ kar naiṯar bāsak sabaḏ riṛki▫on.

Making a mountain has churning staff and the Snake-King his churning-string, he has churned the Divine word.


ਚਉਦਹ ਰਤਨ ਨਿਕਾਲਿਅਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਵਾ ਗਉਣੁ ਚਿਲਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Cẖa▫oḏah raṯan nikāli▫an kar āvā ga▫oṇ cẖilki▫on.

He has extracted the fourteen invaluable objects and has illumined the whole universe.


ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਅਹਿ ਵੇਖਾਲੀਅਨੁ ਜਿਣਿ ਐਵਡ ਪਿਡ ਠਿਣਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Kuḏraṯ ah vekẖāli▫an jiṇ aivad pid ṯẖiṇki▫oṇ.

He displayed such power when he assayed so great a person as Angad.


ਲਹਣੇ ਧਰਿਓਨੁ ਛਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਅਸਮਾਨਿ ਕਿਆੜਾ ਛਿਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Lahṇe ḏẖari▫on cẖẖaṯar sir asmān ki▫āṛā cẖẖiki▫on.

He waved the royal umbrella over the head of Lahna and extended the canopy of his glory to the sky.


ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਾਹਿ ਆਪੁ ਆਪੈ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਿਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Joṯ samāṇī joṯ māhi āp āpai seṯī miki▫on.

Nanak's light merged in Guru Angad's light and the Guru Him self blended Angad with Himself.


ਸਿਖਾਂ ਪੁਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਘੋਖਿ ਕੈ ਸਭ ਉਮਤਿ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਜਿ ਕਿਓਨੁ ॥

Sikẖāʼn puṯrāʼn gẖokẖ kai sabẖ umaṯ vekẖhu jė ki▫on.

Nanak tested his sikhs and his sons and all his sect saw what he had done.


ਜਾਂ ਸੁਧੋਸੁ ਤਾਂ ਲਹਣਾ ਟਿਕਿਓਨੁ ॥੪॥

Jāʼn suḏẖos ṯāʼn lahṇā tiki▫on. ||4||

When Lahna was found immaculate, then alone the Guru established him on the throne.


ਫੇਰਿ ਵਸਾਇਆ ਫੇਰੁਆਣਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਖਾਡੂਰੁ ॥

Fer vasā▫i▫ā faru▫āṇ saṯgur kẖādūr.

Then, the True Guru, the son of Pheru, came to abide in the village of Khadoor.


ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਨਾਲਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਹੋਰੁ ਮੁਚੁ ਗਰੂਰੁ ॥

Jap ṯap sanjam nāl ṯuḏẖ hor mucẖ garūr.

Meditation, hard service and self-discipline abide with thee, O my Guru and excessive pride abides with others.


ਲਬੁ ਵਿਣਾਹੇ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੂਰੁ ॥

Lab viṇāhe māṇsā ji▫o pāṇī būr.

Avarice spoils the mortals, as the green moss does the water.


ਵਰ੍ਹਿਐ ਦਰਗਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਕੁਦਰਤੀ ਨੂਰੁ ॥

varĥi▫ai ḏargėh gurū kī kuḏraṯī nūr.

The Lord's Light spontaneously rains at the Guru's court.


ਜਿਤੁ ਸੁ ਹਾਥ ਨ ਲਭਈ ਤੂੰ ਓਹੁ ਠਰੂਰੁ ॥

Jiṯ so hāth na labẖ▫ī ṯūʼn oh ṯẖarūr.

O my Guru, thou art that peace, of which depth can be found not.


ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਤੁਧੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਭਰਪੂਰੁ ॥

Na▫o niḏẖ nām niḏẖān hai ṯuḏẖ vicẖ bẖarpūr.

thou art brimful with the nine treasure of the Name-wealth.


ਨਿੰਦਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਜੋ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਵੰਞੈ ਚੂਰੁ ॥

Ninḏā ṯerī jo kare so vañai cẖūr.

He, who slanders thee, is utterly ruined.


ਨੇੜੈ ਦਿਸੈ ਮਾਤ ਲੋਕ ਤੁਧੁ ਸੁਝੈ ਦੂਰੁ ॥

Neṛai ḏisai māṯ lok ṯuḏẖ sujẖai ḏūr.

The people of this world are short-sighted, but thou see afar.


ਫੇਰਿ ਵਸਾਇਆ ਫੇਰੁਆਣਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਖਾਡੂਰੁ ॥੫॥

Fer vasā▫i▫ā faru▫āṇ saṯgur kẖādūr. ||5||

Then the True Guru, the son of Pheru, came to abide in the village of Khadoor.

 

[Harry Haller]

Fellow spners this is a great topic and in many ways it encourages us to go to the core of creator and creation and how we view or understand all that.

Let us look at the Creator's human production factory. Last I checked there was no shortage of souls ready for new bodies in the creator's warehouse. There appears to be a quality improvement in place. The new souls being produced appears to be updated models as the time goes on. Does creator have a stack of souls to be recycled? That is questionable as quality improvement makes such need kind of redundant. There is a huge cry and visualizations by human bodies to find ways to save parts of themselves including what they believe the soul is. Creator is aware of it and last I had a meeting with the creator there was a great laughter emanating from that direction as to how egoistically clever we try to be. The creator is quite proud of our ingenuity.

For me the more interesting question is not how a whole soul gets embedded or takes over a body while departing from another but how souls develop or continue to exist in the first place. For me Guru Nanak's soul has emebedded parts of itself in almost all Sikhs who have understood his teachings. Similarly human souls become a conglomeration of parts of many great and all others that they interact with. It is ever evolving in life and becoming part of others and this process does not stop when one dies. I don't see the soul as simply a boxed in entity that only can move as a whole. To the contrary I find it as an amalgamation that builds from and disburses into all around.

I have some other thoughts that I would like to share as this thread evolves.

Stand to be corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

This is one of the few posts that actually makes sense to me, it is devoid of the commonly used buzz words that seem to infect these threads, soul, conciousness, spirit, mind, all, in my view, pretty useless words at actually getting to the root of the subject.

We live, we touch other people, we inherit traits, we inspire others with our own traits, in that respect, can my soul be transferred to another body, well absolutely, I see it in my stepson every day, and I see it in myself, as we both adopt facets of each other due to the amount of time we spend together, working.

It also explains why in some offices, everyone sounds the same when they answer the telephone, why in certain sales environments, everyone looks and sounds like the top performer,

nothing spiritual, no light passing through, just the ability to touch and be touched.

 

[japjisahib04]

This is one of the few posts that actually makes sense to me, it is devoid of the commonly used buzz words that seem to infect these threads, soul, conciousness, spirit, mind, all, in my view, pretty useless words at actually getting to the root of the subject.

We live, we touch other people, we inherit traits, we inspire others with our own traits, in that respect, can my soul be transferred to another body, well absolutely, I see it in my stepson every day, and I see it in myself, as we both adopt facets of each other due to the amount of time we spend together, working.

It also explains why in some offices, everyone sounds the same when they answer the telephone, why in certain sales environments, everyone looks and sounds like the top performer,nothing spiritual, no light passing through, just the ability to touch and be touched.

How the concept of soul originated? Before Guru Nanak the general belief was centered around physical body. In contrary to this gurbani promulgated that creator's whole show is the play of Manh. When guru sahib says, 'ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥ - in fact it is not linked with filling/appeasing of physical body but belly of manh. Similarly when gurbani, says, 'ਫਿਟੁ ਇਵੇਹਾ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਇ ਵਧਾਇਆ ਪੇਟੁ ॥ again it is not linked with fattening of physical body but belly of manh which does not satiate and that satiates only if tongue is quenched. Likewise we mistakenly link this pankti, ' ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥ with filling physical body before praying whereas again it is linked with manh as God has not given to us any 'mala' that we are trying to return. Due to this misinterpreting the grave error in understanding the gurbani is occuring and as such we keep on calling manh as soul. Atma comes and go then where does the manh lives. Not in atma's pocket atleast.

It is claimed due to our karma in different juenes, we got the physical body to undergo various punishment or experience Him and when body is deceased a name is given to it as a soul, then question arises who gets the physical body? SOUL! Is soul compliant to physical body? If yes then it contradicts 'atma is ansh of pramatma' and as such we are undermining the soul. Any logic to give punishment to soul? That was the reason people resorted to renouncing the physical body or starting torturing the body through various rituals like fasting etc. It is all due to lack of understanding the manh. Gurbani tells us, manh tu jot sarup hai aapna mool pachan - When I begin to know myself I begin to live and understand the hukam. When I understand the hukam then I begin to understand functioning of manh.

 

[Harry Haller]

This video is based on the Norwegian short film A Year Along the Abandoned Road, directed by Morten Skallerud in 1991. Time lapse photography was used to make the video, at 50,000 times the normal speed; the original film was 12 minutes long and was filmed over 105 days, and edited to fit the song length and the scenes with the band members.

The subject of the short film was Børfjord, a semi-deserted fisherman's village in northern Norway, near Hammerfest.

The opening sequence features a poem written by King Olav V of Norway:

“
When I look back
I see the landscapes
That I have walked through
But it is different

All the great trees are gone
It seems there are
Remnants of them

But it is the afterglow
Inside of you

Of all those you met
Who meant something in your life

”
—Olav Rex, August 1977

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCkbfyk6XGc