Sikhi Sound In The Process Of Creation Of Universe

[Ishna]

If there was a cardinal sin; which of course there is none in Sikhism; regardless we are grossly guilty of it in this thread. As long as we keep falling in the trap that SGGSJ and Guru ji continue to warn us again and again to not fall into, we are simply making a fool of ourselves. This pseudo science while interesting is an ego trip at its very base level. SGGSJ keeps telling us to not try to explain or define all that is creator or creation or what is the complete truth that underlies. It is infinite and cannot be boxed. Extend your understanding and discoveries for sure but don't try to put it into this or that box of concepts. Please hold your horses and think and express in humility. The more we try to explain, postulate, the more there wold be left unanswered.

Sikhism for sure is for science, discovery and so on and there is nothing wrong with that. There is everything wrong when it is stated as this is it. Whether it is string theory, energy mass transformations, the bangs, the sounds waves/tarangs, the other type of waves, that our limited ears could hear or not hear or other senses could or could not experience. If we were born without hearing, should we really believe that it would somehow change how the universe is or came to be, etc. Similarly if we did not have vision would it change how the whole thing is, hardly so.

I am no trying to put anyone down, if I come across so please forgive me. I am just suggesting we take a breather in vehemency of theories, assumptions or conjectures as being the complete and final answer or somehow imply that this answer was given by our Guru ji or is in SGGSJ. There is strong discouragement for such an approach from our Guru ji as well as repeatedly so in SGGSJ.

Sat Sri Akal.

Did you know there are nightclubs for deaf people? They have music and everything. They have special floors, which carry the sound vibrations, so that deaf people can feel the music. Contemplate on that.

 

[Ambarsaria]

..... (1) Someone once said the further we look, the more there is to see. (2) But science is giving us glimpses of the divine and that is exciting. (3) There is more proof in science of a divine creation, there is of everything just being a big cosmic accident.

(4) However I also wouldn't say that its exactly impossible to know either... unless you don't believe in the concept of a Brahamgiani.

Harkiran Kaur ji thanks for your reply and comments.

I have marked the response and will answer as marked.

(1). Someone once said ....; SGGSJ captures our Guru jis and others who wrote in SGGSJ saying it again and again.

(2). Science is giving us glimpses ....; postulate that may be all is not amenable to a glimpse. It may be a mathematical expression that is UN-experiential by any or all of our senses or demonstrable on earth and our nearest stars. Then what!

(3). There is more proof in science of a divine creation ...; why does it matter when the whole is infinite! Whatever proof will be so miniscule to be irrelevant in the context of all the unknown part.

(4). However I also wouldn't say that its exactly impossible to know either .... unless you don't believe in the concept of a Brahamgiani.; This is untrue. Brahmgiani does not need to know all or knows all. When our Guruji's stated it to be infinite, they conversely stated it to be beyond comprehension of one including themselves. A Brahmgiani knows limitations as well knows and definitely should know within Sikhism and per our Guru Ji's teachings that all cannot be known by Brahmgiani or anyone else. Brahmgiani will take the chill pill as much as we all should in this respect and in our quest to know all or portray ourselves to know so much out of the infinite.

I am not discouraging enthusiastic search, cravings to know, and so on. I am simply stating to keep our pronouncements about the mystery or solving the ultimate explanation about everything in check. It ain't happening unless we want to be delusional or super inflate our egos and ignore all the guidance repeatedly given to us in SGGSJ!

Admin Kaur ji I take note of your vibration disco for the deaf and I was thinking of the snakes without ears who depend upon vibrations while I was posting.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Did you know there are nightclubs for deaf people? They have music and everything. They have special floors, which carry the sound vibrations, so that deaf people can feel the music. Contemplate on that.

Beethoven composed his best work when he was completely deaf. Music is mathematical

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

Question is about the source of sound.
I find from Gurbani the source to be 'The God'; medium is the dark energy converting into dark matter Kand the receivers are the new lattices becoming in dark matter which continuously pass on sound in the form of waves. Scientifically speaking, any abrupt change causes sound. The abrupt change here is pushing the concentrated energy i.e., the atoms of dark energy were given an abrupt motion by the initial action. This action caused reactions and activities started. The sequence is abrupt disruption of concentrated dark energy --emergence of light and sound-- dark energy converting into dark matter and gradually to visible matter-uniform universe gradually changing into cosmic web, super clusters, galaxies, Milky ways, spiral arms, stars, asteroids, earths, and moons. For life quarks turning into protons neutrons etc, and then into atoms, DNAs, chromosomes, gases, oxygen, hydrogen, Nitrogen etc., water, greenery, life.

Did you know there are nightclubs for deaf people? They have music and everything. They have special floors, which carry the sound vibrations, so that deaf people can feel the music. Contemplate on that.

Knowledge (Vidya) is of two kinds: Knowledge of the Supreme God, the Creator (aparavidya) and knowledge of the Creation, the physical world (paravidya). Creator of the entire universe is God. Knowledge of God is Brahma Vidya. Scientifically speaking, it is the science of God. Scientifically everything in the universe is made of energy. The entire energy originated from God. This total energy consists of dark energy (74%), dark matter (22%) and the visible energy (4%). Entire universe is a part of energy. What is visible is the visible energy; what is not visible is invisible energy. Only 4% falls under the visible energy. God is both visible and invisible. He can be seen through His Creation. He is in every part of His creation. He can be seen through His Creation. God has its attributes as well as is attribute less. His attributes can be seen in His creation; His nature. A scientist deals with this visible Creation and the visible form of energy. It has researched into this area but has succeeded only an iota of it; as this visible energy too is too much for him. How to know this visible energy completely plus the dark matter plus the dark energy? We have to work beyond science. Science is only a partially unified knowledge of part of the visible universe. A scientist infers, investigates and draws exact conclusions from his observations of the only small part which he can observe. God’s Nature is limitless and he works within limits. He understands Nature but he knows nothing of the origin or destiny of Nature. All secular sciences have their own limitations. A scientist works on the physical plane with a finite mind and with instruments. He knows the physical laws. He has some knowledge of the elements, atoms and physical energy. His knowledge is fragmentary. He has no experience of the whole. He has no knowledge of transcendental or super-sensual things. Who made the sun and gave power to its rays? Who combined four parts of nitrogen with one part of oxygen? Who gave power to the electrons? Who gave power to the atoms to combine into molecules? Who or what made and bestowed upon the ultimate particles of matter their marvelous power of varied interaction? Science does not know this great mystery. Scientists have to know many things. Who gave power to the electrons to revolve? What is at the bottom of these electrons? Who gave life to the cell or the protoplasm? Who gave intelligence to the cells to secrete milk or bile or gastric juice from the blood? The scientists are still observing and experimenting. They are still groping in darkness. What is the cause of the origin of an impulse? Who is the director of the mind? What is the cause of the origin of thought? Even if all the living scientists were to put their heads together to solve these questions, they cannot give definite and conclusive answers. The scientist observes the physical phenomena, makes experiments and goes from the effects to the cause. His mind attached to physical and material phenomenon is gross and impure. It has outgoing tendencies. It is filled with desires, passions and worldly impressions. The scientist cannot look within, introspect and meditate. He can analyse the atoms of different elements but he cannot do self-analysis. He can bombard the atoms, watch the movements of the electrons 22 and make discoveries in Nature. But it is not pure or subtle to see through and beyond the material things. A study of the physical forces and the physical laws, and an understanding of the mental forces and the mental laws are not sufficient to make us perfect. We should have a thorough knowledge and realization of the substratum that lies hidden behind these names and forms and all physical and mental phenomena. Then only will we become perfect masters or full-blown adepts or Arhats or Buddhas. A close study of the observations and revelations of science brings a man closer to God. Who has framed the laws of Nature? Nature is blind. What is that intelligence which moves Nature? Who is the primum mobile? As said earlier God is everywhere and in everything. To understand Him one has to understand His Creation. Every being is His Creation. You, me and all and everything is His Creation. Knowing every bit or any bit of His creation can provide one His knowledge. Why to go far then. Start understanding one self and you will understand Him. One is made of physical and the subtle. Physical consists of your structure. The inner consists of your energy, your mind and your soul. The soul is said to be in continuity with the God (Atma and parmatma are in continuity). Atma though contained in body is part of the limitless, the Parmatma, the God. God is limitless. How can one know the limitless? If one knows its part; the soul, it can understand the limitless the God. The mind of a Rishi or a Yogi is subtle and pure. It is free from worldly desires and passions, from selfishness, lust and hatred. It is equipped with the instructions of the sages and the Srutis (revelations, i.e. The Vedas). It is filled with purity. It is free from outgoing tendencies. It is fit for divine contemplation. It is properly disciplined in a variety of ways through rigorous austerity and self-restraint. The Yogi undergoes a discipline, a rare discipline-through the practice of tranquility of mind, control of the senses, restraints, internal and external purification, etc.-which cannot be had in the universities. The Rishi or the Yogi goes directly to the cause or the source. He dives deep into the source and brings forth the pearl of knowledge of the Self. The man of science sees and observes things only as they appear to be to his sense-perception. The seer perceives them as they actually are in their very essential nature. He has direct intuition and perception of the Truth through Nirvikalpa Samadhi (super-conscious state). Then he comes to the effect-the manifested universe. Therefore, his utterances are infallible. They are gospel truths. The Srutis of the Upanishads are direct revelations. They are the infallible utterances of the seers or sages. They are beyond questioning, beyond the least shadow of doubt. We have to have another way of knowing the universe and the Creator of this entire universe, The God. The answer to this is Brahma Vidya. On the contrary, Yoga is completely unified knowledge. A Yogi gets inner, divine realization. He clearly sees with his inner Yogic eye the subtle rudiments of matter. He identifies himself with the Supreme Being who is the Lord of Prakriti or matter. He gets control over the five elements. He clearly understands the whole mystery of creation through direct institutional knowledge. The scientist lacks this sort of knowledge. He has only experimental knowledge. God is said to be everywhere and in everything. It is not possible to know about everything. It cannot be obtained by the five senses because everything of God cannot be observed, heard, smelt or felt by touch. God is both visible and invisible. You may see the visible but how do you find about invisible? let the scientists do their bit.
Apni apni Budh hai jeti. Barnat bhin bhin tuh(i) teti. problem is tumra lakha na jai pasara. kih bidh saja pratham sansara. Ekai roop anoop saroopa. rank bhayo rav kahin bhupa. Andj jejrj setj kini. utbhuj khan bahur rach dini. kahoon phool raja hai baitha. Kahon simt bhayo sankar akaitha.
Sagri srisht dikhae achamhbhab. aad jugad saroop suyambhav.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Harkiran Kaur ji thanks for your reply and comments.

I have marked the response and will answer as marked.

(1). Someone once said ....; SGGSJ captures our Guru jis and others who wrote in SGGSJ saying it again and again.

(2). Science is giving us glimpses ....; postulate that may be all is not amenable to a glimpse. It may be a mathematical expression that is UN-experiential by any or all of our senses or demonstrable on earth and our nearest stars. Then what!

At least we will have strived to know something... as opposed to giving up. Imagine where our life would be on Earth if we never kept peeking into science more and more. Some would say that the research which has led us to cure some diseases etc we already have stepped on our Creator's toes. (genetics etc.) I am sure those who the research helped, would disagree.

(3). There is more proof in science of a divine creation ...; why does it matter when the whole is infinite! Whatever proof will be so miniscule to be irrelevant in the context of all the unknown part.

It matters to those of us who are explorers by heart I have an inner desire to push further, to learn more. Just standing there in awe is not in my makeup unfortunately. I have that drive to understand more and more. I can't help it I am afraid LOL I am an explorer.

(4). However I also wouldn't say that its exactly impossible to know either .... unless you don't believe in the concept of a Brahamgiani.; This is untrue. Brahmgiani does not need to know all or knows all. When our Guruji's stated it to be infinite, they conversely stated it to be beyond comprehension of one including themselves. A Brahmgiani knows limitations as well knows and definitely should know within Sikhism and per our Guru Ji's teachings that all cannot be known by Brahmgiani or anyone else. Brahmgiani will take the chill pill as much as we all should in this respect and in our quest to know all or portray ourselves to know so much out of the infinite.

Brahamgianis actually experienced ONEness. They knew the truth to the Universe without needing to try and peek into underlying workings through science etc. But the point is, they still know. When someone reaches that point, they no longer associate as a separate haumae - ego identity. Essentially there is no more difference between God and creation.

 

[Parma]

For me the shabad Guru is Jasvir how or if they mentioned it in the Guru Granth Sahib ji I will never know. Just ask for Jasvir in your prayers not mata for my storyline followers. My Waheguru ji is that shabad Jasvir ji

 

[chazSingh]

i don't think it is the physical ears that hear the spiritual sounds.

i can only think that the anhad shabad flows through all dimensions including the physcial...but is also beyond the physical because it exists past that dimension also...right through to the nirgun.

anyway...my head hurts trying to understand this...so i'm giving up. I'm just glad Guru Ji has given us practical tips on how to point our attention towards it...AND HEAR IT FOR OURSELVES!

best to just sit with the explanation that Guru Ji Offers.... 'unstruck sound'...what else needs to be studied....this description is just the best..

 

[Ambarsaria]

For the scientific minds the article talks about magnetism, etc. Excellent reading.

Physicists just discovered a new state of matter called ‘quantum spin liquid’

I may appear as a DODO head but my training is also applied science. Whereas many times science and spirituality easy coalesce, sometimes trying to force fit this union is counter-productive. As the point of union may not be what we think it is and we will do dis-service to spirituality and science. Just need to have caution in making pronouncements.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

I feel the problem only occurs when

For the scientific minds the article talks about magnetism, etc. Excellent reading.

Physicists just discovered a new state of matter called ‘quantum spin liquid’

I may appear as a DODO head but my training is also applied science. Whereas many times science and spirituality easy coalesce, sometimes trying to force fit this union is counter-productive. As the point of union may not be what we think it is and we will do dis-service to spirituality and science. Just need to have caution in making pronouncements.

Sat Sri Akal

I feel the problem only occurs when we start compartmentalising knowledge into arts, science, commerce, religion etc. This narrows down the thinking process. Practically all the knowledge including spirituality and science has to be seen in a harmonious relationship.

Both spirituality and science have a base in knowledge. According to ancient Indian tradition there are two kinds of knowledge–'the higher knowledge' orPara Vidyaand 'the lower knowledge' orApara Vidya. A human being is blessed with the faculty of self-knowledge i.e., Apara Vidyaor logical reasoning and also with the faculty of understanding and self-awareness which isPara Vidyaor quantum logic.Para Vidyais defined as the intuitive vision of non-duality; [9]itis the knowledge of the Absolute and falls under the category of spirituality;it is the transcendental knowledge which is beyond all limits of knowledge, experience and reason, which is, beyond intellect, mind and sense. It has Reality as its content and possesses a unique quality of ultimacy which is singular and free from reason, senses, etc. Itdoes not require any support or proof, and is irrefutable’. [10]. The Absolute, which is Truth, which is Reality, is neither an expression nor a reflection of itself; it is non-dual being devoid of otherness, and it cannot be an object of knowledge in the ordinary sense as it surpasses the intellect in subtleness. Para Vidyais the intuitive level of vidyathat stems from a unity, and manifests as a vision, manifests as an experience. [11][12] For realizing the Reality the aspirant must seek a teacher. The teacher who has already realized his identity with the God and soul alone can impart this much sought-after wisdom on the strength of his own experiences. [13][14] Apara Vidyais the knowledge of the world; it has the phenomenal world as its content. This consists of all textual knowledge of language, art and science (Bhasha, Kala and Vigyan). Human mind is both rational and intuitive; Science is related to rationality while spirituality is related to intuition. Science is related to Apara vidya while intuition leads to para vidya the science of spirituality.


Knowledge is truth and truth is correspondence of an apprehension with its object.The aim of both spirituality and science is to find ‘Truth’. The ‘Truth’ of spirituality lies in God. Guru Nanak (1469-1539 AD) defines God as ‘The Truth before beginning, The Truth during the various ages, The Truth now and the truth in Future. [15] and stating God’ Name as ‘The True Name’[16] The ‘truth’ of science lies in his creation, the maya, the material world. Fundamental of both however is ‘energy’. Spirituality recognizes the source of all energy as God. The science accepts that the entire universe is made of energy but is still struggling to find out the fundamental source of energy. Guru Nanak said, “Whatever has been created is inserted only once.” [17] The law of conservation of energy states that ‘The total energy of an isolated system does not change.”[18] Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. [19] Guru Nanak considers the entire world made of this energy as continuously changing (‘sabh jag chalanhar.’ ‘jo deesai sabh avan javni’: p.1021:6): ‘Jo deesai so chalsi: 936:4)’ ‘janam maran kau ih(u) jag(u): 598:1) Science too now considers: “Energy can change forms, and energy can flow from one place to another. [20] Guru Nanak says: ‘Neither it comes, nor it goes.” [21] ‘If the entire universe is made of total energy which does not change; it is none else than God who does not change in totality and remains the same. It is He alone who cannot be created or destroyed. It has forms known as universe within, which keep on changing. If we consider universe as an isolated system we know that “the entire universe is made of energy. It keeps on changing forms and flows from one place to another within but it neither increases nor decreases.”[22] This is how Guru Nanak through his knowledge of the beyond (Apara Vidya) links knowledge of the world (Para Vidya). His hymns are the embodiment of both spiritual and material including knowledge of science [23].

Guru Nanak had the knowledge of both ‘Para’ and ‘Apara’. Only very few such as Lord Rama and Krishna, Lord Mahavira and Mahatma Buddha, Christ, Mohammed could achieve this. Guru Nanak’s hymns are full of knowledge of Apara associated with knowledge of the Para which provide guidelines for the researchers of Para vidya. Hisknowledge of spirituality and science and their harmonious relationship is considered here. None of Guru Nanak’ statements on cosmology is set aside or disapproved- by science putting him ahead of all astronomers and cosmologists; thereby making him father of cosmology and hence a prophet scientist. [24]

Guru Nanak gave the following theories to remove the above fallacies. These theories have stood the test of the time since.

1. The entire universe was created just by one word of the Lord [25]. The Lord creates and sets the universe [26]. Guru Nanak's theory matches with the big-bang theory to some extent but it is not exactly the big bang theory.

2. The Lord Himself is the Creator-Master of the body of five elements [27]. The man originates from Lord's command [28] and not through Adm and Eve after Adm having eaten the apple as given out in the Bible.

3. The present form of man is not as a result of biological changes as explained by Darwin but is the direct creation of the Lord through the process of contact-separation [29].

4. The earth is not settled on the horns of a bull as depicted in Hindu Mythology. There are many earths, which are settled without any assistance [30] based on the principle of gravity.

5. The entire universe is working in a system. The sun, the moon and the sky; all are working in a system [31].

6. There is only one God Ik Ongkar and not many Gods as is given in the Hindu mythology.

7. Neither the sun nor earth is stationary. Every creation of the Lord is changing. Only Lord is eternal [32].

8. The universe has an end [33].

9. Not only human beings have life but also the entire universe [34]. The entire universe including plants has life.[35]

10. Every object created by the Lord has the soul and He abides in each soul [36]. In fact He himself pervades everywhere. As many as are the creatures and living beings in the ocean, land, underworld and sky or where so ever they are; amongst them all, the Lord is contained [37].

11. Spirit is independent from the body. The human body is destructible while the spirit is not [38].

12. Moon does not have its own light but light of the sun transferred by reflection through earth [39].

13. The human system is in consonance with the system of universe. The system of every small and large part of the universe is the same [40].

14. The end of the universe cannot be known to the human being because it is part of the universe and a part cannot visualise the end of the entire universe, as he is too small [41].

15. The soul and body unite and separate again and again. A mortal comes to life and dies again and again. He becomes the father of many and the Guru and disciple of many. One cannot keep count of the future and the past and he does not remember much as to what had happened to him earlier and what will happen to him in the future [42]. The foolish man who does not get emancipated wanders and enters into transmigration [43]. Every being has got not only the body and the mind but also the soul. The mind gets destroyed with the body but the soul changes places in the form of rebirth as per His order. It is on His Order that the beings go on moving from one life to another [44].

16. He created the world and assigned task to one and all and he looks after and controls His creation. Being Omnipresent, He changes the directions at will [45].



The world then was even unaware about the basic facts of gravitation principles of earth, solar system, earth's rotation around the sun and the existence of million other such earths in the universe. It was not known then that the earth was initially a fire-ball which cooled down over the ages. It was not known then that the air was a creation from heat and water was created from air. It was the sun-rays which helped origination of nature. Above all the fact that the universe is unfathomable and beyond the imagination of man and everything in the universe is undergoing constant change and there is nothing stable and stationary was not realised by the then scientific community. In the real sense the science at Guru Nanak’s time was not even considered science as an independent subject and taught as a part of philosophy even in Europe. It lacked the true direction and methodologies and worked on incomplete truths. In India the condition was far worse than in Europe. Scientific approach was then a neglected field and science was the casualty of barbarism. There was a need for general awakening of the people to take them off from the darkness of ignorance and to propagate the true path as envisioned by Guru Nanak.

Guru Nanak had not only a great vision but also a very scientific and analytic mind. Guru Nanak observed the various aspects of God and his universe very minutely and added by his super-consciousness he was able to provide answers to the most intriguing questions about God and His universe. From Guru Nanak’s hymns following fundamentals emerge.

God is everywhere and in everything. As one cannot see, feel, hear or touch the God directly, one can do so through His Creation; His nature. To understand Him one has to understand His Creation. Every being is His Creation. You, me and all and everything else is His Creation. Knowing every bit or any bit of His creation can provide one His knowledge. Why to go far then. You can start understanding yourself and you will understand Him. You are made of physical and the subtle. Physical consists of your physical structure. The inner consists of your energy, your mind and your soul. The soul is said to be in continuity with the God. Atma though contained in body is part of the limitless, the Parmatma, the God.

Through his knowledge and analytical and scientific vision, he propounded certain Doctrines which were very new to the world. Most of these are still under study.

Guru Nanak under took journeys to bring in a change and moved from place to place enlightening the people about the truth of life and ultimate reality of humanity. His approach to humanism was analytical, systematic and scientific and his propagation of scientific truth was realistic and humane.

Through inquisition, experience, intuition and super-consciousness Guru Nanak has answered the most difficult questions which the modern science has not been able to answer so far and is not likely to provide the answer if it does not change the methodology of inquiry. Guru Nanak cleared various doubts and decried fallacies and gave answers which, are certainly going to be the guiding light for the future inquiries hence need the due attention of the scientific world at large.

Even Modern scientists are groping in dark about the very fundamental questions like origin and development of universe. The evolution theories have not stood the test of time.Garis Lambatre of Belgium advanced the theory of big bang in 1930, supported by Garag Gamov of Russia in 1940 basing on an assumption of big bang having occurred 15 to 20 billion years ago which created the universe instantaneously in the millionth part of a second. `The evolution of the world can be compared to a display of fireworks that has just ended; some few red wisps, ashes and smoke. Standing on a cooled cinder, we see the slow fading of the suns, and we try to recall the vanishing brilliance of the origin of the worlds.' Lemaitre. "The explosion from zero volume at zero time of a corpuscle of energy equivalent to the mass and radiation that now constitute the Universe."[46] It means that everything we now see or know about was once compacted into an unimaginably small blip that instantaneously expanded in a huge explosion that created the very space and time it was expanding into. The matter was broken into pieces, which were thrown out with high speed in all directions forming stars and galaxies; which are still moving away from one another. The model which remained the bane of the researchers in twentieth century is the Big Bang Model.

The Big Bang Model was questioned by many scientists. Sir Fred Hoyle, for example, could countenance neither an uncaused nor a supernaturally caused origin of the universe. With respect to the first alternative, he wrote, "This most peculiar situation is taken by many astronomers to represent the origin of the universe. The universe is supposed to have begun at this particular time. From where did the universe originate? The usual answer, surely an unsatisfactory one, is: from nothing!"[47] Equally unsatisfactory in Hoyle's mind was the postulation of a supernatural cause. Noting that some accept happily the universe's absolute beginning, Hoyle complained,

To many people this thought process seems highly satisfactory because a 'something' outside physics can then be introduced at t = 0. By a semantic maneuver, the word 'something' is then replaced by 'god,' except that the first letter becomes a capital, God, in order to warn us that we must not carry the enquiry any further.[48] To Hoyle's credit, he did carry the inquiry further by helping to formulate in 1948 the first competitor to the Standard Model, namely, the Steady State Model of the universe.[49] According to this theory, the universe is in a state of isotropic cosmic expansion, but as the galaxies recede, new matter is drawn into being ex nihilo in the interstices of space created by the galactic recession.

In the most widely accepted current model of the Universe, there is no starting place or time in the conventional sense of human experience. Space, as now defined and constrained by the outer limits of the observable Universe, did not yet exist; also, sequential events, embedded in a temporal continuum, had not begun. The observable Universe is just the visible or detectable part extending to that part of the Universe where objects or sources of radiation have sent signals travelling at the speed of light over an elapsed time not greater (usually somewhat less) than the time (age) of the start of expansion. Most cosmologists now feel with some confidence that there is something real and physical beyond the observable Universe (be it the unseen parts of our Universe or some other Universe(s) but it is too far away for light to have had enough time to reach Earth's ground or orbiting telescopes). That observed part plus the unobserved part together make up the Cosmos.

The origin of universe is ‘Developmental Assimilatory Creation’ and the creation process is systematic and smooth and not through a big bang. He created everything from void i.e, from the point of concentrated energy. The matter was the later result of energy. Maru Solhe explains cosmology explicitly. It is truly scientific in nature and its interpretation can be done scientifically. It proves true on all the scientific parameters for evaluation i.e., it is systematic, logical, truthful, precise, rational, analytical, methodical and of universal nature. It is the guiding light for the future inquiries hence needs the due attention of the scientific world at large

Through inquisition, experience, intuition and super-consciousness, Guru Nanak has answered the most difficult questions on cosmology which the modern science has not been able to answer so far and is not likely to provide the answer if it does not change the methodology of inquiry. Guru Nanak's answers to the various questions, theories, concepts and doctrines are certainly going to be the milestones for future scientists. Presentation is most lucid and artistic through poetry and music; a rare thing in research. This provides guidelines for future writers and researchers for being brief, to the point, exact, scientific, logical, systematic, reliable, valid, lucid, artistic, graceful, poetic and musical.The reliability and validity of the research findings are duly tested through practice.

Conclusion

In view of this, creating boundaries between science and spirituality is meaningless. They have to coexist and work for the benefit of the world establishing a harmonious relationship using each other’s achievement for the benefit of the humanity as a whole rather than create boundaries. Interdisciplinary approaches with science and spirituality working together in harmonious relationship will go a long way to solve the problems and explore the unknown better since both are directed towards having knowledge about the universe and its Creation.

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Vidya Bhavan. p. 240.

[14] Science, Spirituality and the Modernization of India. Anthem Press. pp. 18,19

[15] Ad(i) sach(u) jugad(i) sach(u) haibh(i) sach(u) hosi bhi sach(u): SGGS, p. 1.

[16]. Sat(i)nam: SGGS p.1.

[17] ‘Jo kich paia so eka vaar: SGGS, p.7:5.

[18] Kittel, C. Kroemer, H. (1980). Thermal Physics, second edition, W.H. Freeman, San Francisco, ISBN 0-7167-1088-9.

[19] Guggenheim, E.A. (1985). Thermodynamics. An Advanced Treatment for Chemists and Physicists, seventh edition, North Holland, Amsterdam, ISBN 0-444-86951-4.

[20] Kittel, 1088-89

[21] Na oh aavai n oh (u) jai’: p.391:12, ‘janam maran kal(u) nahi: p. 222:19.

[22] SGGS, p. 61:12.

[23]] Dalvinder Singh Grewal (Dr), 2008, Scientific Vision of Guru Nanak, National Book Shop, New Delhi. ISBN 978-81-7116-490-0

[24] Manjit Singh Prof. Sept 2015, Guru Nanak Dev- father of modern Cosmology, Sikh Review, pp.16-22)

[25] ehsk g;kT[ J/e' etkT[ .(ig[ih gzBk 3) i' feS[ gkfJnk ;' J/ek tko .(ig[ih gzBk 7)

[26]nkg/ e[dofs eo/ ;kfi.. ;u[ nkfg fBp/V/ oki[ okfi..(gzBk 1170)

[27] gzu G{ BkfJe' nkfg f;ozdk (;{jh wjbk 1, gzBk 766)

[28]j[ew? nkt? j[ew? ikt? j[ew? ofjnk ;wkJh.. (gzBk 94)

[29];zi'r fti'r d[fJ eko ubktfj b/y? nktfj Gkr. (gzBk 6)

[30] i' e' p[M/ j't? ;funko[.. Xtb? T[go e/sk Gko[..

Xosh j'o[ go? j'o[ j'o[.. fs; s/ Gko[ sb? etD[ i'o[..(ig[ih gzBk 3)

[31]G? ftu ;{oi G? ftfu uzd.. e'j eo'Vh ubs B nzs[ .aaaaaaaa a a

G? ftu nkvkD/ nkek; ..(tko nk;k ;b'e wjbk 1, gzBk 464)

[32] ;G d[Bh nktD iktDh w[ekw[ J/e[ ojhw[ (gzBk 64)

w[ekw[ fs;[ B' nkyhn? fif; f;f; B j'th b/y[..n;wkB[ Xosh ub;h w[ekw[ Ujh J/e[..

fdB oft ub? fBf; ;f; ub? skfoek by gb'fJ..

w[ekw[ Ujh J/e[ j? BkBek ;u[ p[r'fJ..(gzBk 64)

[33] i' nkfJnk ;' ub;h nwo[ ;[ r[o[ eosko[.. (gzBk 63)

;G ir[ pkX' ekb e' fpB[ r[o ekb[ ncko[.. (gzBk 55)

[34] ;{o[ t;? fwN? nzfXnkok.. (okwebh w 1 f;X r';fN gzBk 943)

[35];G fd;? jfonktbh (gzBk 1278)

[36] xfN xfN r[gs[ T[gkJ/ gqrN[ r[ow[fy ;zs iBk .. (gzBk 1172)

nksw wfj okw[ okw wfj nksw[ uhBf; r[o phukok.. (gzBk 1153)

[37] i/s/ ihn izs ifb Efb wjhnfb isq esq s{ ;op ihnk. (gzBk 1127)

[38] wB[ G{bT[ Gowf; nkfJ ikfJ ..(gzBk 1187)

[39] g;oh feofD of; ewb fprk;/ ;f; xfo ;{o[ ;wkfJnk.. (gqGksh wjbk 1 gzBk 1332)

[40] i' pqfjwzv yzfv ;' ikDj[ .(wko{ wjbk 1 gzBk 1041)

[41] Uj[ p/nzs[ nzs[ fefB bjhn?.. (gzBk 1188) p/w[jski[ p/nzs[ ngkok.. (gzBk 1190

[42] i[fV i[fV ftS[V/ ftS[fV i[V/.. ihft ihft w[J/ w[J/ iht/..

e/fsnk e/ pkg e/fsnk e/ p/N/ e/s/ r[o u/b/ j{J/..

nkr? gkS? rDs B nkt? fenk iksh fenk j[fD j'J/.. (gzBk 1233)

[43] Gqfw Gqfw nkt? w{Vk tko' tko.. (gzBk 1169)

[44] fJfe j[ewh ;dk GtkJhnfj (ig[ih gT[Vh 2) BkBe[ j[ewh nktj[ ikj[.. (ig[ih gT[Vh 20)

[45] s[X[ ;z;ko T[gkfJnk f;o/ f;fo XzX/ bkfJnk.. t/yfj ehsk nkgDk efo e[dofs gk;k Ykfb

ihT[.. (gzBk 71)

[46] Symbiosis of Science and Spirituality Generation. Gyan Publishing. p. 98.

[47] http//www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/theism-origin.html#text9#text18

[48] Ibid, html#text19#text19

[49] Ibid,.html#text20#text20

 

[Original]

Pyare Saadsangat Ji

The "information" above is well thought through, properly researched and academically presented. The juice of it all however, lies in the title, "sound...." And, if I may by way of acknowledgement and appreciation pay tribute to Dr Grewal for his tremendous contribution in furthering Sikh thought.

Talking about thought, I'm reminded here of the shabd "thal vich tin vastu paieo sat, santokh and vicharo" [1429 SGGSJ]. Meaning [bold], to think, meditate, wonder, speculate for the want of wisdom is a must. For if we didn't capitalise on our thought process it wouldn’t be much of an existence. Thoughts fill our every waking moment, and whether they are insightful, playful or bizarre, there is no denying that thinking comes naturally to us, as do flying to birds and swimming to dolphins. All in all vichar dhara is a perquisite for and to the realisation of the ultimate reality of Nanak's satnam.

Disciplines of Art and Science are like the two arms of our body, aiding and abetting our journey home. What home ? The home within, Amritsar, the unstruck sound, the source of everything. Gur Ghar calls it Anhad Shabd, various commomtators have called it ultimate reality, Nanak called it satnam, meaning truth.

What is truth and what is reality ? In the ordinary sense of the word for example, take table n chairs. From a reality perspective, they are real, tangible pieces of furniture and occupy a unique place in space, but in truth, they are wood. Similarly, Ekonkar is reality and Satnam is truth.

However, within the advanced disciplines of science, it is energy and matter as we know it, waves and particles at sub-atomic level as the scientists know it, but in principle one and the same. These two are inseparable, current thinking is that there are no particles, but waves interacting with each other that we perceive as particles. This is the basis of the string theory that matter is made up of vibrating strings [gurmantra, Waheguru] energy. And, if I may add for clarification, my personal take on the uncertainty principle, it would be to the effect that conscious activity is a prerequisite to determine existence. What this means is that where physical reality drops off, quantum non-reality picks up and the physical reality which we are akin to experiencing transforms into non-reality [chautha pad, spiritual state]. This non reality experience requires a conscious agent to be present to confirm existence and hence the reason why Gur Ghar places so much emphasis on nam simran [vibration connects, say chanting]. Moreover, chautha pad is a state of consciousness which is spoken of within theological writings for a very good reason. And, hence the reason Gur Ghar is screaming for us to let go off the human garment and embrace the spiritual one [nam] to experience the existence for ourselves.

What does it mean ? It means you don't quinch your thirst by saying water water, you'd have to drink it to quinch it. Similarly, you don't simply get to a state to experience the celestial sound by continuously repeating "celestial sound celestial sound", but by practicing the art of becoming a spiritual being from a mere human being. Remember, it's a state of change from particle to wave. And, once you've reached that state of being you'll transcend the ordinary level of consciousness and merge with the cosmic awareness. Drawn by the power of this celestial sound [shabd] the elevation from one spiritual plane to the next [pauri 34 -37, Jap Ji Sahib] is beyond words. It's like a rocket in space, dropping off it's used parts as it ascends higher n higher into space and finally floating until it reaches its destination. Similarly, when the soul [meaning you the observer and the seeker of truth] connects to the sound current you begin to experience the magic of Anhad Shabd, the ultimate reality beyond time n space.

It is from this state of Being that the emergence of all known phenomena, including Big Bang [BB] have their origin. That is to say, just as a new born baby is expelled from the mothers womb, so too was BB spawned from the House of the Lord, Satnam Waheguru.

Thank you Dr Grewal for spreading the word of Truth.

 

[chazSingh]

Pyare Saadsangat Ji

The "information" above is well thought through, properly researched and academically presented. The juice of it all however, lies in the title, "sound...." And, if I may by way of acknowledgement and appreciation pay tribute to Dr Grewal for his tremendous contribution in furthering Sikh thought.

Talking about thought, I'm reminded here of the shabd "thal vich tin vastu paieo sat, santokh and vicharo" [1429 SGGSJ]. Meaning [bold], to think, meditate, wonder, speculate for the want of wisdom is a must. For if we didn't capitalise on our thought process it wouldn’t be much of an existence. Thoughts fill our every waking moment, and whether they are insightful, playful or bizarre, there is no denying that thinking comes naturally to us, as do flying to birds and swimming to dolphins. All in all vichar dhara is a perquisite for and to the realisation of the ultimate reality of Nanak's satnam.

Disciplines of Art and Science are like the two arms of our body, aiding and abetting our journey home. What home ? The home within, Amritsar, the unstruck sound, the source of everything. Gur Ghar calls it Anhad Shabd, various commomtators have called it ultimate reality, Nanak called it satnam, meaning truth.

What is truth and what is reality ? In the ordinary sense of the word for example, take table n chairs. From a reality perspective, they are real, tangible pieces of furniture and occupy a unique place in space, but in truth, they are wood. Similarly, Ekonkar is reality and Satnam is truth.

However, within the advanced disciplines of science, it is energy and matter as we know it, waves and particles at sub-atomic level as the scientists know it, but in principle one and the same. These two are inseparable, current thinking is that there are no particles, but waves interacting with each other that we perceive as particles. This is the basis of the string theory that matter is made up of vibrating strings [gurmantra, Waheguru] energy. And, if I may add for clarification, my personal take on the uncertainty principle, it would be to the effect that conscious activity is a prerequisite to determine existence. What this means is that where physical reality drops off, quantum non-reality picks up and the physical reality which we are akin to experiencing transforms into non-reality [chautha pad, spiritual state]. This non reality experience requires a conscious agent to be present to confirm existence and hence the reason why Gur Ghar places so much emphasis on nam simran [vibration connects, say chanting]. Moreover, chautha pad is a state of consciousness which is spoken of within theological writings for a very good reason. And, hence the reason Gur Ghar is screaming for us to let go off the human garment and embrace the spiritual one [nam] to experience the existence for ourselves.

What does it mean ? It means you don't quinch your thirst by saying water water, you'd have to drink it to quinch it. Similarly, you don't simply get to a state to experience the celestial sound by continuously repeating "celestial sound celestial sound", but by practicing the art of becoming a spiritual being from a mere human being. Remember, it's a state of change from particle to wave. And, once you've reached that state of being you'll transcend the ordinary level of consciousness and merge with the cosmic awareness. Drawn by the power of this celestial sound [shabd] the elevation from one spiritual plane to the next [pauri 34 -37, Jap Ji Sahib] is beyond words. It's like a rocket in space, dropping off it's used parts as it ascends higher n higher into space and finally floating until it reaches its destination. Similarly, when the soul [meaning you the observer and the seeker of truth] connects to the sound current you begin to experience the magic of Anhad Shabd, the ultimate reality beyond time n space.

It is from this state of Being that the emergence of all known phenomena, including Big Bang [BB] have their origin. That is to say, just as a new born baby is expelled from the mothers womb, so too was BB spawned from the House of the Lord, Satnam Waheguru.

Thank you Dr Grewal for spreading the word of Truth.

i like your use of words

elevation through spiritual planes.....stargates...
i've used words like wormholes in the past....but i think stargate tops it...

i remember the very first time i put my minds excuses to the side and carried my simran into Amrit Vela...

the usual excuses of "if i wake up in the night i will disturb my wifes sleep..." just didn't hold any weight as i found myself home alone for a few days...

so there i was...meditating in the early hours...what happened next just 'blew me away' \ pulled me away \ whisked me away...life just hasn't been the same since

it's just this wretched Maya...just keeps trying to pull me back down...and often succeeds!

 

[Sherdil]

This pseudo science while interesting is an ego trip at its very base level. SGGSJ keeps telling us to not try to explain or define all that is creator or creation or what is the complete truth that underlies. It is infinite and cannot be boxed. Extend your understanding and discoveries for sure but don't try to put it into this or that box of concepts. Please hold your horses and think and express in humility. The more we try to explain, postulate, the more there wold be left unanswered.

Why is it that the Divine cannot be conceptualized? Is it because creation is so vast, or because the One is nothing at all? Going back to the concept of shoonya (void), we established that it is the most primal nature of the One, void of duality. It is the reality behind this transient illusion of Maya.

It is nothingness. It cannot be created or destroyed. It has no form, color or outline. It is limitless. Nothing can contain it, yet it contains everything. Even to speak of it and give it a name, makes it something. Nothingness therefore cannot be conceptualized. It can only be experienced. Awareness in the midst of shoonya (void) is the state of Ekonkar.

In reference to the main stem of this thread:

Science and Eastern Philosophy aren't mutually exclusive because they are describing the same reality. However, the former speaks in concrete language where as the latter is more abstract. Science can lend a helping hand to explain Gurbani and vice-versa, but to translate the scriptures using modern scientific principles completely overlooks the fact that our gurus didn't have knowledge of these principles. They were philosophers and poets, not theoretical physicists.

 

[Original]

i like your use of words

..me too ! but like I was explaining to a group the other day, the rationale behind word selection by Gur Ghar is carefully thought through to denote specifically and create meaningfully an ambience of a divine kind. Take for example, feet, pa're, paoun, kadam, etc, Gur Ghar chose, "charn" - WOW - can speak volumes on the subject.

so there i was...meditating in the early hours...what happened next just 'blew me away' \ pulled me away \ whisked me away...life just hasn't been the same since

you mean...when satgur nadar karay! you see Chaz, with that experience the mind is told to "shut up" and it does because it hasn't got the ammo to workout how it all came about. Sikh philosophy is to that very end to "actually" experience the divine whilst alive so that at the time of death the soul know the stargate.

it's just this wretched Maya...just keeps trying to pull me back down...and often succeeds!

..don't worry, entertain it to her heart's content knowing that the real deal is elsewhere. Don't supress feelings and emotions on account heaven awaits, alas no ! but reason with your desires and cravings more deterministically ensuring where possible no party is injured as a result. Remember, humans err and God forgives. On that note look at life more positively and defiantly and if a pretty babe takes your fancy, don't shy away or think of it immoral, get close to it and analyse in detail the beautiful hand which created the beautiful face.

 

[chazSingh]

..don't worry, entertain it to her heart's content knowing that the real deal is elsewhere. Don't supress feelings and emotions on account heaven awaits, alas no ! but reason with your desires and cravings more deterministically ensuring where possible no party is injured as a result. Remember, humans err and God forgives. On that note look at life more positively and defiantly and if a pretty babe takes your fancy, don't shy away or think of it immoral, get close to it and analyse in detail the beautiful hand which created the beautiful face.

thats just it....Maya is designed to do this...designed by waheguru for the purpose of tricking the individual God particle / soul to question its own existence...to question itself...to take us so deep into the game of life that we forget where we came from...that we forget what we are...the IK...
and it succeeded which it would as it was designed in perfection by the perfect programmer


Maya created a domain, from which then starts the game of love...surrender...to remember...to simar...to sacrifice the infinite and endless desires of the world to re-ignite a connection lost in the drama. to be a part of the world...but to look back once in a while and wonder what we have left behind...to stop for a moment and contemplate...who knows what we will find..or what awaits to shows us what we have forgotten..

god bless ji

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Science and Eastern Philosophy aren't mutually exclusive because they are describing the same reality. However, the former speaks in concrete language where as the latter is more abstract. Science can lend a helping hand to explain Gurbani and vice-versa, but to translate the scriptures using modern scientific principles completely overlooks the fact that our gurus didn't have knowledge of these principles. They were philosophers and poets, not theoretical physicists.

Exactly... and truth is still truth no matter if it is explained by way of poetry or by way of science.

 

[chazSingh]

Are there any references in gurbani to shabad having not only the description as of a sound but also that of light?

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Are there any references in gurbani to shabad having not only the description as of a sound but also that of light?

Here is one where shabad is referenced using colour - which we know is really light (colours are separated from light spectrum). It speaks of dark energies for those not attuned to the shabad.

Ang 29

॥
स्रीरागु महला ३ ॥
Sarīrāg mėhlā 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
मनमुखु मोहि विआपिआ बैरागु उदासी न होइ ॥
Manmukẖ mohi vi▫āpi▫ā bairāg uḏāsī na ho▫e.
The self-willed manmukhs are engrossed in emotional attachment; they are not balanced or detached.

ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਚੀਨੈ ਸਦਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਪਤਿ ਖੋਇ ॥
सबदु न चीनै सदा दुखु हरि दरगहि पति खोइ ॥
Sabaḏ na cẖīnai saḏā ḏukẖ har ḏargahi paṯ kẖo▫e.
They do not comprehend the Word of the Shabad. They suffer in pain forever, and lose their honor in the Court of the Lord.

ਹਉਮੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਖੋਈਐ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
हउमै गुरमुखि खोईऐ नामि रते सुखु होइ ॥१॥
Ha▫umai gurmukẖ kẖo▫ī▫ai nām raṯe sukẖ ho▫e. ||1||
The Gurmukhs shed their ego; attuned to the Naam, they find peace. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹੀ ਨਿਤ ਆਸਾ ॥
मेरे मन अहिनिसि पूरि रही नित आसा ॥
Mere man ahinis pūr rahī niṯ āsā.
O my mind, day and night, you are always full of wishful hopes.

ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਮੋਹੁ ਪਰਜਲੈ ਘਰ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ਉਦਾਸਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
सतगुरु सेवि मोहु परजलै घर ही माहि उदासा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Saṯgur sev moh parjalai gẖar hī māhi uḏāsā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Serve the True Guru, and your emotional attachment shall be totally burnt away; remain detached within the home of your heart. ||1||Pause||

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਬਿਗਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਅਨੰਦੁ ॥
गुरमुखि करम कमावै बिगसै हरि बैरागु अनंदु ॥
Gurmukẖ karam kamāvai bigsai har bairāg anand.
The Gurmukhs do good deeds and blossom forth; balanced and detached in the Lord, they are in ecstasy.

ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਨਿਚੰਦੁ ॥
अहिनिसि भगति करे दिनु राती हउमै मारि निचंदु ॥
Ahinis bẖagaṯ kare ḏin rāṯī ha▫umai mār nicẖanḏ.
Night and day, they perform devotional worship, day and night; subduing their ego, they are carefree.

ਵਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਹਜਿ ਅਨੰਦੁ ॥੨॥
वडै भागि सतसंगति पाई हरि पाइआ सहजि अनंदु ॥२॥
vadai bẖāg saṯsangaṯ pā▫ī har pā▫i▫ā sahj anand. ||2||
By great good fortune, I found the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation; I have found the Lord, with intuitive ease and ecstasy. ||2||

ਸੋ ਸਾਧੂ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਸੋਈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸਾਏ ॥
सो साधू बैरागी सोई हिरदै नामु वसाए ॥
So sāḏẖū bairāgī so▫ī hirḏai nām vasā▫e.
That person is a Holy Saadhu, and a renouncer of the world, whose heart is filled with the Naam.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਾਗਿ ਨ ਤਾਮਸੁ ਮੂਲੇ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਏ ॥
अंतरि लागि न तामसु मूले विचहु आपु गवाए ॥
Anṯar lāg na ṯāmas mūle vicẖahu āp gavā▫e.
His inner being is not touched by anger or dark energies at all; he has lost his selfishness and conceit.

ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਸਤਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਖਾਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਆ ਅਘਾਏ ॥੩॥
नामु निधानु सतगुरू दिखालिआ हरि रसु पीआ अघाए ॥३॥
Nām niḏẖān saṯgurū ḏikẖāli▫ā har ras pī▫ā agẖā▫e. ||3||
The True Guru has revealed to him the Treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; he drinks in the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and is satisfied. ||3||

ਜਿਨਿ ਕਿਨੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤੀ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਬੈਰਾਗਿ ॥
जिनि किनै पाइआ साधसंगती पूरै भागि बैरागि ॥
Jin kinai pā▫i▫ā sāḏẖsangṯī pūrai bẖāg bairāg.
Whoever has found it, has done so in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. Through perfect good fortune, such balanced detachment is attained.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲਾਗਿ ॥
मनमुख फिरहि न जाणहि सतगुरु हउमै अंदरि लागि ॥
Manmukẖ firėh na jāṇėh saṯgur ha▫umai anḏar lāg.
The self-willed manmukhs wander around lost, but they do not know the True Guru. They are inwardly attached to egotism.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਰੰਗਾਏ ਬਿਨੁ ਭੈ ਕੇਹੀ ਲਾਗਿ ॥੪॥੮॥੪੧॥
नानक सबदि रते हरि नामि रंगाए बिनु भै केही लागि ॥४॥८॥४१॥
Nānak sabaḏ raṯe har nām rangā▫e bin bẖai kehī lāg. ||4||8||41||
O Nanak, those who are attuned to the Shabad are dyed in the Color of the Lord's Name. Without the Fear of God, how can they retain this Color? ||4||8||41||


Also:

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਾ ਕੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥

गुरमुखा के मुख उजले गुर सबदी बीचारि ॥

Gurmukẖā ke mukẖ ujle gur sabḏī bīcẖār.

The faces of the Gurmukhs are radiant and bright; they reflect on the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

 

[Original]

Are there any references in gurbani to shabad having not only the description as of a sound but also that of light?

Good question ! An important one for the sake of clarity and accuracy.

Chaz Ji, the shabd is "sound". This sound, which Gur Ghar calls Anhad Shabd [AS] is beyond time n space. To tell you more about it would ascribe to it a quality, quantity and a property for it has none. There are no physical organs on the human body which can be said to communicate such a phenomenon. In other words, incommunicado. Moreover, those who've experienced [note, not heard or seen] the AS cannot express it because the experience in itself is mystical, that is to say, human toolkit hasnt the tools to communication. Yes, if I was a "baba" and had my own quasi-religious camp set up somewhere, I could invariably mix n match information [for the greater good of course] to interpret AS as "light". But that would be an interpretation inconsistent with the truth [satnam], for satnam is sound [word]. And even the bible acknowledges it thus and then there was light.

Having said that, there are passages untold where references such as Harkiran cited above, [p125 SGGSJ has also a persuasive not actual] and others within Gurbani where the use of the term Jyot, Chanan, etc have been used and also, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, imported the term "anubhav Prakash" as an adjective to get close to expressing the wonders of God and it may well be the case that individuals do occasion moments of light flashes etc, for they will be visions and not AS. Anhad Shabd is an experience or shall we say "becoming". It has nothing in terms of seeing or hearing.

Yeah, don't get trapped in to attending psychology classes for you will end up seeing what the psychologists want you to see - white light ! Be a King Singh and just do nam jap without expectation of a WOW moment of lightening !

More another time - Ciao

 

[chazSingh]

Good question ! An important one for the sake of clarity and accuracy.

Chaz Ji, the shabd is "sound". This sound, which Gur Ghar calls Anhad Shabd [AS] is beyond time n space. To tell you more about it would ascribe to it a quality, quantity and a property for it has none. There are no physical organs on the human body which can be said to communicate such a phenomenon. In other words, incommunicado. Moreover, those who've experienced [note, not heard or seen] the AS cannot express it because the experience in itself is mystical, that is to say, human toolkit hasnt the tools to communication. Yes, if I was a "baba" and had my own quasi-religious camp set up somewhere, I could invariably mix n match information [for the greater good of course] to interpret AS as "light". But that would be an interpretation inconsistent with the truth [satnam], for satnam is sound [word]. And even the bible acknowledges it thus and then there was light.

Having said that, there are passages untold where references such as Harkiran cited above, [p125 SGGSJ has also a persuasive not actual] and others within Gurbani where the use of the term Jyot, Chanan, etc have been used and also, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, imported the term "anubhav Prakash" as an adjective to get close to expressing the wonders of God and it may well be the case that individuals do occasion moments of light flashes etc, for they will be visions and not AS. Anhad Shabd is an experience or shall we say "becoming". It has nothing in terms of seeing or hearing.

Yeah, don't get trapped in to attending psychology classes for you will end up seeing what the psychologists want you to see - white light ! Be a King Singh and just do nam jap without expectation of a WOW moment of lightening !

More another time - Ciao

ok, so we have gathered that Anhad shabad is not an audible experience or a visible experience...or something we can describe and give attributes to.

there have been many audible experiences during Simran...some are just sounds that come and go...others have had an extraordinary pull that takes your dyann on one hell of a ride...True experience of AS i believe is continuous 24/7 ... and i will take your advice and just go with the flow and not expect anything...

there is a shabad i used to listen to often and it contained the following:
chaadhanaa chaadhan aaa(n)gan prabh jeeo a(n)thar chaadhanaa ||1||
Moonlight, moonlight - in the courtyard of the mind, let the moonlight of God shine down. ||1||

i used to wonder why the mind became infused with the brightest of light and this was the closest explanation i could find in Gurbani which i believe referenced that phenomena....I'm sure as the journey within continues, the same line of Gurbani will take an even deeper and profound meaning...

Gurbani has a knack of having layers and layers of enlightenment

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

thats just it....Maya is designed to do this...designed by waheguru for the purpose of tricking the individual God particle / soul to question its own existence...to question itself...to take us so deep into the game of life that we forget where we came from...that we forget what we are...the IK...
and it succeeded which it would as it was designed in perfection by the perfect programmer


Maya created a domain, from which then starts the game of love...surrender...to remember...to simar...to sacrifice the infinite and endless desires of the world to re-ignite a connection lost in the drama. to be a part of the world...but to look back once in a while and wonder what we have left behind...to stop for a moment and contemplate...who knows what we will find..or what awaits to shows us what we have forgotten..

god bless ji

Meditation/mindfulness/concentration of him with total devotion, dedication and commitment is really worth it. There is nothing which you cannot achieve, if you are turly and truthfully dedicated. Stage comes when ridhian sidhian age

ok, so we have gathered that Anhad shabad is not an audible experience or a visible experience...or something we can describe and give attributes to.

there have been many audible experiences during Simran...some are just sounds that come and go...others have had an extraordinary pull that takes your dyann on one hell of a ride...True experience of AS i believe is continuous 24/7 ... and i will take your advice and just go with the flow and not expect anything...

there is a shabad i used to listen to often and it contained the following:
chaadhanaa chaadhan aaa(n)gan prabh jeeo a(n)thar chaadhanaa ||1||
Moonlight, moonlight - in the courtyard of the mind, let the moonlight of God shine down. ||1||

i used to wonder why the mind became infused with the brightest of light and this was the closest explanation i could find in Gurbani which i believe referenced that phenomena....I'm sure as the journey within continues, the same line of Gurbani will take an even deeper and profound meaning...

Gurbani has a knack of having layers and layers of enlightenment

To my mond

ok, so we have gathered that Anhad shabad is not an audible experience or a visible experience...or something we can describe and give attributes to.

there have been many audible experiences during Simran...some are just sounds that come and go...others have had an extraordinary pull that takes your dyann on one hell of a ride...True experience of AS i believe is continuous 24/7 ... and i will take your advice and just go with the flow and not expect anything...

there is a shabad i used to listen to often and it contained the following:
chaadhanaa chaadhan aaa(n)gan prabh jeeo a(n)thar chaadhanaa ||1||
Moonlight, moonlight - in the courtyard of the mind, let the moonlight of God shine down. ||1||

i used to wonder why the mind became infused with the brightest of light and this was the closest explanation i could find in Gurbani which i believe referenced that phenomena....I'm sure as the journey within continues, the same line of Gurbani will take an even deeper and profound meaning...

Gurbani has a knack of having layers and layers of enlightenment [/QUOTE
To my mind one must get absorbed in simran so that he gets mentally detached from Maya. Once he is nothing else to think, some may call it a blank, some call sunn. When your external senses are controlled, the inner sense, come up. Some call it dasam dwar opens up. entering into this environment, your mind is always searching for Him. You start getting signals of his closeness; some say music, some say bell ringing and the like sounds. thereafter you start realising as to what actually you ought to do thereafter. It is here that you get the required enlightenment from within with God's blessing. Gurparsad is the most essential to move towards Him and it He alone who bestows only when he finds one is capable of receiving it. Your attention thereafter has to be totally concentrated to received instructions and directions. A stage comes when you all with him; away from the world mentally though physically you will be with the word; jal mah(i) kamal sman. Jeevtian mar rahie is the stage where you are truly liberated. This all has to be sequentially, systematically, naturally (sahj). Sikhism does not believe in Hatth yog but sahj Yog. All has to be experienced and lived and not merely a lip practice. This is what I have gained from Gurbani; others may have other ways to achieve; as there is no hard and fast rule. Aim remains merging into Him.