Lee
SPNer
Lee ji
An interesting reply. There is a lot to ponder in it. Just don't start bawling whatever you do. We humans have a knack for digging a deep hole and falling into it. Have so done for centuries, yet we continue. Not without pain and suffering.
No -- I would not characterize my view of natural justice as objective, but rather as "rational" in this sense: lawful actions need to follow logically from principles of justice rather than from the perceived need of the moment. Rational as opposed to intuitive. (I am not using "rational" in the sense of sane versus insane.)
I too see the child molester as a human first and a criminal next. But if collective morality were not tempered by principles of justice it would be easier to condemn first and ask for evidence later when it is too late. Principles of justice in the Anglo system of justice place value in ideas like "innocent" til proved guilty, the right to bail, the right to a trial by jury, the right to cross-examine witnesses and evidence, to name a few. Likewise when considering political and social restraints like burqa, our system asks there be compelling evidence of a clear and present danger to society. To me that takes the subjectivity out of the equation. You are right on that score.
I believe under the Napoleonic code which governs most of Europe, one presumed guilty and must prove one's innocence. That is a big difference. How does one prove innocence? How does one prove that one is not a threat to society?
Narayanjot ji,
Yes once agian we are in agreement. This:
'lawful actions need to follow logically from principles of justice rather than from the perceived need of the moment'
Is spot on in my opinion.
Yet it is clear that this is not the way things are(at least in this instance), and that as is often the case fear takes the place of logical thought. Now of course whether such fear is from the people and so transmitted to the rulers to do something about, or it comes from the rulers and is porpousely transmitted down to the people in order to get the people on the rulers side, well that is a differant question.
Also again which justice? For some it is justified to kill the killer, for others to kill the killer is engaging in the same activity that we wish justice for. Hahah and again still for some the word justice means simply vengance.
Clear and present danager and prove ones inocence again to my mind serve to illustrate the whole subjectivity of morality, and really when it boils right down to it questions of justice are questions of morality.