Welcome to the forum G Singh.
You haven't offended anyone. Some just find speaking the Truth insulting. They'll be like this :}--}:, but just be like this
The Five K's, Why
- Thread starter tony
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Welcome to the forum G Singh.
You haven't offended anyone. Some just find speaking the Truth insulting. They'll be like this :}--}:, but just be like this
Tony,
Guru Fateh.
As you always value my 2 cent worth more that it is for which I do appreciate, please bare with me here for one more 2 cent worth from my side.
I am sure you believe in SGGS and its teachings, that is why you call yourself a Sikh, a learner, a seeker, a student. So I would like you to pick any Shabad of your own choice and share with us its message. Let us interact on that. Then you can share other Shabads of your liking with us. Once we start that together then you will see how much more you have to offer as a Sikh through Gurbani and Gurmat ideals, hence all of us will get enriched.
Waiting for your expression and elaboration of a Shabad/s from SGGS from you because we all know you have a lot to offer to us and educate us from your viewpoint about Sikhi.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Guru Fateh.
As you always value my 2 cent worth more that it is for which I do appreciate, please bare with me here for one more 2 cent worth from my side.
I am sure you believe in SGGS and its teachings, that is why you call yourself a Sikh, a learner, a seeker, a student. So I would like you to pick any Shabad of your own choice and share with us its message. Let us interact on that. Then you can share other Shabads of your liking with us. Once we start that together then you will see how much more you have to offer as a Sikh through Gurbani and Gurmat ideals, hence all of us will get enriched.
Waiting for your expression and elaboration of a Shabad/s from SGGS from you because we all know you have a lot to offer to us and educate us from your viewpoint about Sikhi.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Pk70 ji,
Guru Fateh.
Thanks for the response.
Your write:
You mean RAHAO has no factual significance in SGGS? Why did our Gurus add RAHAO in almost all the Shabads in your opinion if it is only a theory? Can you please shine some Gurmat light about your claiming that RAHAO being a thoery. I did not claim that. I said the following about RAHAO in my post,
"We all know that RAHAO is the nectar of the whole Shabad and it gives us the main idea what this Shabad is all about. The rest of the verses of any Shabad compliment RAHAO. As urged by Gyani ji and many others, that all of us who express our viewpoints with the help of Gurbani, must give the complete Shabad and especially share the meaning of RAHAO."
So as you can see, I presented no theory just an understanding about it. You can also check the post that Gyani ji wrote about the importance of RAHAO he mentioned in it for your own clarifications. But if you claim it is only a theory, I would love to hear that from your Gurmat wisdom
It is ok to differ. As you have a theory about RAHAO, I thought you would express your theory. As you did not, let me ask you.
What is your theory of RAHAO based on SGGS. Please enlighten us with your Gurmat knowledge.
You are right. I am not as learned about Gurmat as you admit you are. That is the reason I ask you questions like these about your posts so that I may be able to catch a spark or 2 from the Gurmat knowledge that sparkles through you and your posts. Let me also confess one more thing that once I reach that beginners' stage that according to you, I have not yet, I would love to remain a beginner for the rest of my life. I do not want this learning process to end ever. I apologise for not understanding the questions and answers which in my viewpoint have nothing to do with your not giving the whole Shabad as requested by Antonia ji and Gyani Ji and others including myself, which is only fair thing to ask especially to a person like you who is drenched with Gurmat knowledge.
If Rahao has nothing to do with the Shabad whose part you are talking about then, please share your Gurmat wisdom, why is it there?
Your above statement seems a bit confusing. Can you elaborate what do you mean by the above? Only when you explain your theory about RAHAO in a Shabad, perhaps it may help. So I am waiting for that so even a beginner like me can understand the depth of your comment.
Normally there is only one RAHAO in the Shabad. When there is more than one which is true in some cases, then it is written as RAHAO Duja ( Second Rahao).
I am sure you are aware that Sukhmani Sahib also has one RAHAO.
ਸੁਖਮਨੀ ਸੁਖ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਮੁ ॥
Sukẖmanī sukẖ amriṯ parabẖ nām.
Sukhmani: Peace of Mind, the Nectar of the Name of God.
ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Bẖagaṯ janā kai man bisrām. Rahā▫o.
The minds of the devotees abide in a joyful peace. ||Pause||
Well, I am sorry to say you are incorrect here. You did give the partial verses and what is this theory you keep on talking about? Can you elaborate on it in a practical way?
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used. Can you also elaborate on the word in context with the Shabad. According to the Dictionary Hermit means a recluse not a wanderer.
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used.
Bhai Manmohan Singh
Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.
(Ask the Yogis) Q. 23: What is the reason that forsaking thy home thou hast become a hermit?
Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.
Q. 24: What is the reason that thou hast adopted this dress?
Your partial Verse stops here.
Kis vakẖar ke ṯum vaṇjāre.
Q. 25: Of what merchandise art thou the customer?
Ki▫o kar sāth langẖāvahu pāre. ||17||
Q. 26: How shalt thou ferry across thy sect?
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.
(Answers the Guru) A. 23: In search of the saints I have become a hermit.
Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.
A. 24: For the sake of the Lord's vision, I have adopted this costume.
Your partial Verse stops here.
Sācẖ vakẖar ke ham vaṇjāre.
A. 25: I am the trader of the true merchandise.
Nānak gurmukẖ uṯras pāre. ||18||
A. 26: Nanak, through the Guru's grace I shall ferry across
So now you can check for yourself and also the Sadh Sangat can do the same that both verses 17 & 18 are incomplete verses posted by you, the point Antonia ji also made when she posted the complete verses in her post.
Sant Singh Khalsa
Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.
Why have you left your house and become a wandering Udaasee?
Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.
Why have you adopted these religious robes?
Kis vakẖar ke ṯum vaṇjāre.
What merchandise do you trade?
Ki▫o kar sāth langẖāvahu pāre. ||17||
How will you carry others across with you?" ||17||
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.
I became a wandering Udaasee, searching for the Gurmukhs.
Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.
I have adopted these robes seeking the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan.
Sācẖ vakẖar ke ham vaṇjāre.
I trade in the merchandise of Truth.
Nānak gurmukẖ uṯras pāre. ||18||
O Nanak, as Gurmukh, I carry others across. ||18||
Well, He may have mentioned the History while interpreting it but he did not reject the RAHAO verse of this Shabad. Infact he explained it quite well.
This is what he said about RAHAO of this very Shabad:
Prof. Sahib Singh's words translated into English..
Rahao: Pause, Meaning- The main meaning- nectar of this LONG BAANI- SHABAD is in these 2 lines.
ਕਿਆ ਭਵੀਐ ਸਚਿ ਸੂਚਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 938}
PK70 ji, Do you disagree with Prof. Sahib Singh?
Following is the URL where Prof. Sahib says that.
PAGE 938 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).
PK70 ji,
We are all here to learn. That is why Guru Sahibs gave us the name Sikhs. I hope to learn a lot from your Gurmat knowledge. So please bear with me and with my questions. As you said, I am not even at the beginners stage yet but with your help, I will get there one day.
So I am waiting for the meaning in your own words of the whole 73 verses of this Shabad so I can learn from your Gurmat knoweldge.
Thanks & Regards
Tejwant Singh
Guru Fateh.
Thanks for the response.
Your write:
You mean RAHAO has no factual significance in SGGS? Why did our Gurus add RAHAO in almost all the Shabads in your opinion if it is only a theory? Can you please shine some Gurmat light about your claiming that RAHAO being a thoery. I did not claim that. I said the following about RAHAO in my post,
"We all know that RAHAO is the nectar of the whole Shabad and it gives us the main idea what this Shabad is all about. The rest of the verses of any Shabad compliment RAHAO. As urged by Gyani ji and many others, that all of us who express our viewpoints with the help of Gurbani, must give the complete Shabad and especially share the meaning of RAHAO."
So as you can see, I presented no theory just an understanding about it. You can also check the post that Gyani ji wrote about the importance of RAHAO he mentioned in it for your own clarifications. But if you claim it is only a theory, I would love to hear that from your Gurmat wisdom
It is ok to differ. As you have a theory about RAHAO, I thought you would express your theory. As you did not, let me ask you.
What is your theory of RAHAO based on SGGS. Please enlighten us with your Gurmat knowledge.
.
You are right. I am not as learned about Gurmat as you admit you are. That is the reason I ask you questions like these about your posts so that I may be able to catch a spark or 2 from the Gurmat knowledge that sparkles through you and your posts. Let me also confess one more thing that once I reach that beginners' stage that according to you, I have not yet, I would love to remain a beginner for the rest of my life. I do not want this learning process to end ever. I apologise for not understanding the questions and answers which in my viewpoint have nothing to do with your not giving the whole Shabad as requested by Antonia ji and Gyani Ji and others including myself, which is only fair thing to ask especially to a person like you who is drenched with Gurmat knowledge.
If Rahao has nothing to do with the Shabad whose part you are talking about then, please share your Gurmat wisdom, why is it there?
Your above statement seems a bit confusing. Can you elaborate what do you mean by the above? Only when you explain your theory about RAHAO in a Shabad, perhaps it may help. So I am waiting for that so even a beginner like me can understand the depth of your comment.
Normally there is only one RAHAO in the Shabad. When there is more than one which is true in some cases, then it is written as RAHAO Duja ( Second Rahao).
I am sure you are aware that Sukhmani Sahib also has one RAHAO.
ਸੁਖਮਨੀ ਸੁਖ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਮੁ ॥
Sukẖmanī sukẖ amriṯ parabẖ nām.
Sukhmani: Peace of Mind, the Nectar of the Name of God.
ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Bẖagaṯ janā kai man bisrām. Rahā▫o.
The minds of the devotees abide in a joyful peace. ||Pause||
Well, I am sorry to say you are incorrect here. You did give the partial verses and what is this theory you keep on talking about? Can you elaborate on it in a practical way?
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used. Can you also elaborate on the word in context with the Shabad. According to the Dictionary Hermit means a recluse not a wanderer.
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used.
Bhai Manmohan Singh
Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.
(Ask the Yogis) Q. 23: What is the reason that forsaking thy home thou hast become a hermit?
Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.
Q. 24: What is the reason that thou hast adopted this dress?
Your partial Verse stops here.
Kis vakẖar ke ṯum vaṇjāre.
Q. 25: Of what merchandise art thou the customer?
Ki▫o kar sāth langẖāvahu pāre. ||17||
Q. 26: How shalt thou ferry across thy sect?
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.
(Answers the Guru) A. 23: In search of the saints I have become a hermit.
Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.
A. 24: For the sake of the Lord's vision, I have adopted this costume.
Your partial Verse stops here.
Sācẖ vakẖar ke ham vaṇjāre.
A. 25: I am the trader of the true merchandise.
Nānak gurmukẖ uṯras pāre. ||18||
A. 26: Nanak, through the Guru's grace I shall ferry across
So now you can check for yourself and also the Sadh Sangat can do the same that both verses 17 & 18 are incomplete verses posted by you, the point Antonia ji also made when she posted the complete verses in her post.
Sant Singh Khalsa
Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.
Why have you left your house and become a wandering Udaasee?
Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.
Why have you adopted these religious robes?
Kis vakẖar ke ṯum vaṇjāre.
What merchandise do you trade?
Ki▫o kar sāth langẖāvahu pāre. ||17||
How will you carry others across with you?" ||17||
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.
I became a wandering Udaasee, searching for the Gurmukhs.
Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.
I have adopted these robes seeking the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan.
Sācẖ vakẖar ke ham vaṇjāre.
I trade in the merchandise of Truth.
Nānak gurmukẖ uṯras pāre. ||18||
O Nanak, as Gurmukh, I carry others across. ||18||
Well, He may have mentioned the History while interpreting it but he did not reject the RAHAO verse of this Shabad. Infact he explained it quite well.
This is what he said about RAHAO of this very Shabad:
Prof. Sahib Singh's words translated into English..
Rahao: Pause, Meaning- The main meaning- nectar of this LONG BAANI- SHABAD is in these 2 lines.
ਕਿਆ ਭਵੀਐ ਸਚਿ ਸੂਚਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 938}
PK70 ji, Do you disagree with Prof. Sahib Singh?
Following is the URL where Prof. Sahib says that.
PAGE 938 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).
PK70 ji,
We are all here to learn. That is why Guru Sahibs gave us the name Sikhs. I hope to learn a lot from your Gurmat knowledge. So please bear with me and with my questions. As you said, I am not even at the beginners stage yet but with your help, I will get there one day.
So I am waiting for the meaning in your own words of the whole 73 verses of this Shabad so I can learn from your Gurmat knoweldge.
Thanks & Regards
Tejwant Singh
“I beg to differ with your theory of “Rahao” here.( quotePk70)
You mean RAHAO has no factual significance in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Why did our Gurus add RAHAO in almost all the Shabads in your opinion if it is only a theory? Can you please shine some Gurmat light about your claiming that RAHAO being a thoery. I did not claim that. I said the following about RAHAO in my post(Quote Vaheguru Seekr)
Respected Vaheguru Seekr Ji
I can debate with anyone but with people who have no patience to read and comprehend what is said and drag the issue uncalled for by ignoring given facts for personal pleasure. You have been noticed dragging the issue, and that displays you intentions,( I am going to prove it)forgive me I feel it is not worth wasting time with you. Reread my statement, it says I differ with your theory of Rahao “HERE” it doesn’t say anything about “Rahao” in context of whole Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji but you have dragged that in the context of Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji anyway. Call me an arrogant or whatever pleases you, I am not going to take bait you throw to troll any more. Why? I have proved that you ignored the word “Here” and look what you are writing all through your post because of that.
"We all know that RAHAO is the nectar of the whole Shabad and it gives us the main idea what this Shabad is all about. The rest of the verses of any Shabad compliment RAHAO. As urged by Gyani ji and many others, that all of us who express our viewpoints with the help of Gurbani, must give the complete Shabad and especially share the meaning of RAHAO."
Again you are talking in context of Rahao in context of whole SGGS Ji, and I didn’t say anything about it, my statement was about Rahao only in context of questioning and answering process, and I stated “the Rahoo used in Sidhgost doesn’t stand with all question and answer-process”. Remember the word I used in my statement “Here”! That restricts the application of my statement about Rahao but you have dragged it anyway.
So as you can see, I presented no theory just an understanding about it. You can also check the post that Gyani ji wrote about the importance of RAHAO he mentioned in it for your own clarifications. But if you claim it is only a theory, I would love to hear that from your Gurmat wisdom
I don’t follow Respected Gyani ji or any scholar with my eyes closed, so I stress and stand by my statement, in this case the Rahao in Sidhgost doesn’t contribute something particular to each and every question asked and answered. Its just an essence of this Bani in search of Lord.It is ok and to differ. As you have a theory about RAHAO, I thought you would express your theory. As you did not, let me ask you.
I differ with your theory of Raho bringing in where it is not applicable here(the context I quoted Guru Verses). I didn’t discuss Sidhgost- Essence but particular questioning and answering in context of Historical context.
What is your theory of RAHAO based on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Please enlighten us with your Gurmat knowledge.
I don’t have any Rahao theory, in some complete Banis, if it’s used once, it means the essence of the bani lies in there but that doesn’t mean all other ideas discussed do not go beyond Rahao-essence, I hope you have gone through JapJi, Guru ji never used Rahao in it , what will we do there without Rahao?
Any one even the one who is just a beginner can understand that the quotes I have given are questions and answers[/FONT] (quote PK70)[/FONT]
.
You are right. I am not as learned about Gurmat as you admit you are. That is the reason I ask you questions like these about your posts so that I may be able to catch a spark or 2 from the Gurmat knowledge that sparkles through you and your posts.[/FONT]
I wish these were your true intentions but unfortunately they are not, just take an example from my statement, I said something about Rahao in context of a particular context but you have dragged it to different way, intentions are crystal clear[/FONT]
Let me also confess one more thing that once I reach that beginners' stage that according to you, I have not yet, I would love to remain a beginner for the rest of my life. I do not want this learning process to end ever. I apologise for not understanding the questions and answers which in my viewpoint have nothing to do with your not giving the whole Shabad as requested by Antonia ji and Gyani Ji and others including myself, which is only fair thing to ask especially to a person like you who is drenched with Gurmat knowledge.[/FONT]
Please don’t try to flatter me, I don’t believe in it at all. And don’t mention contexts which are totally not applicable in my post. What I quoted, for that, not even next Vaak is needed to be quoted. There is a historical question and a factual answer, period.[/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
The Rahao gave in this bani has nothing to do with the process of questioning in particular(quote pk70).[/FONT]
If Rahao has nothing to so with the Shabad whose part you are talking about then, please share your Gurmat wisdom, why is it there?[/FONT]
The part I quoted doesn’t need that Rahao given in the beginning to justify anything.[/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
Rahao inserts Guru ji’s own views about Him in Sidhgost( that’s why it’s one time only in the beginning).(quote pk70) [/FONT]
Your above statement seems a bit confusing. Can you elaborate what do you mean by the above? [/FONT]
Let me help you here if I can: Rahao= a word you are talking about. Guru Ji inserts’ own view= Guru ji expresses his personal views in essence, about Him= About the Lord, in Sidhgost= name of a Bani( That’s why it’s one time only in the beginning= What Guru ji wants to say in context of Sidhgost in essence, he said in Rahaoo but doesn't use it another time because answers and questions cover other things too ) I hope(not sure) now you will understand it.[/FONT]
Only when you explain your theory about RAHAO in a Shabad, perhaps it may help. So I am waiting for that so even a beginner like me can understand the depth of your comment.[/FONT]
You have a theory, you think all questioning and answering in Sidhgost revolves around Rahoo which is incorrect( That is obvious reason of bringing Rahao repeatedly by you), another reason I don’t have such peculiar theory about Rahao. [/FONT]
Normally there is only one RAHAO in the Shabad. When there is more than one which is in some cases, then it is written as RAHAO Duja ( Second Rahao).[/FONT]
You should know This complete Sidhgost is not like an individual Shabad, its “ a complete process of questions and answers” occurred between Guru ji and Yogis. So your comparing it to an individual Shabad proves that you just don’t know what you are talking about
[/FONT]
I am sure you are aware that Sukhmani Sahib also has one RAHAO.
[/FONT]ਸੁਖਮਨੀਸੁਖਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਪ੍ਰਭਨਾਮੁ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]
[/FONT]Sukẖmanī sukẖ amriṯ parabẖ nām.[/FONT]
[/FONT]Sukhmani: Peace of Mind, the Nectar of the Name of God.[/FONT]
[/FONT]ਭਗਤਜਨਾਕੈਮਨਿਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ॥[/FONT]ਰਹਾਉ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]
[/FONT]Bẖagaṯ janā kai man bisrām. Rahā▫o.[/FONT]
[/FONT]The minds of the devotees abide in a joyful peace. ||Pause||[/FONT]
Again, as in above quotes in Sukhmani, this is the essence of Bani but in Sukhmani Guru ji also defines who is Brahamgyani, Who is Sant and those definitions have nothing to do with this Rahao –essence. I just wonder what is going in your mind![/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
What I have given are not a partial verses as per your theory riddled with your own assumption that points at me. These two Guru Vaakas stand alone due to the contest of the question and given answer[/FONT]. (pk70)[/FONT]
Well, I am sorry to say you are incorrect here. You did give the partial verses.[/FONT]
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used. Can you also elaborate on the word in context with the Shabad. According to the Dictionary Hermit means a recluse not a wanderer.
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used.
Bhai Manmohan Singh
Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.
(Ask the Yogis) Q. 23: What is the reason that forsaking thy home thou hast become a hermit?
Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.
Q. 24: What is the reason that thou hast adopted this dress?
Your partial Verse stops here.
Kis vakẖar ke ṯum vaṇjāre.
Q. 25: Of what merchandise art thou the customer?
Ki▫o kar sāth langẖāvahu pāre. ||17||
Q. 26: How shalt thou ferry across thy sect? [/FONT]
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī. [/FONT]
(Answers the Guru) A. 23: In search of the saints I have become a hermit.
Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.
A. 24: For the sake of the Lord's vision, I have adopted this costume.
Your partial Verse stops here.
Sācẖ vakẖar ke ham vaṇjāre.
A. 25: I am the trader of the true merchandise.
Nānak gurmukẖ uṯras pāre. ||18||
A. 26: Nanak, through the Guru's grace I shall ferry across(quoteVaheguru seekr Ji)[/FONT]
Again, I haven’t quoted partial verses because no next Vaak has anything to do with this question and answer[/FONT].[/FONT] These verses stand alone[/FONT]I don’t need to check its you who are totally confused with “Rahao and complete Shabad” concept. Here is what I posted, lets look at them again[/FONT]
“ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਗ੍ਰਿਹੁਤਜਿਓਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਇਹੁਭੇਖੁਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: For what reason did you forsake home to become hermit? For what reason did you adopt that dress?[/FONT]
Guru Ji answers those questions[/FONT]
ਗਰਮੁਖਿਖੋਜਤਭਏਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਦਰਸਨਕੈਤਾਈਭੇਖਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: In search of Gurmukhas I became hermit, to see them (meet personally) I adopted that dress (of Hermit)[/FONT]
“ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਗ੍ਰਿਹੁਤਜਿਓਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਇਹੁਭੇਖੁਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: For what reason did you forsake home to become hermit? For what reason did you adopt that dress?[/FONT]
Guru Ji answers those questions[/FONT]
ਗਰਮੁਖਿਖੋਜਤਭਏਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਦਰਸਨਕੈਤਾਈਭੇਖਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: In search of Gurmukhas I became hermit, to see them (meet personally) I adopted that dress (of Hermit)”(quote PK70)[/FONT]
Hermit is a kind of sadhu or Faqir in the eyes of general people, you want to call him wanderer, its fine but it doesn’t affect in any way my point posted in context of “Bana”[/FONT]
The quotes I have given above carry a question about the dress and an answer of Guru ji with a reason of why he wore it. The next verses you are quoting above carry different question and answer, don’t you see this answer in your quote ( Sach Vakhar ke ham vanjare) has nothing to do with the dress. In previous Vaak, the question was historical and was answered, a new question about what Guru Ji believes in and what he does for that, expressed in your given quotes. How my quotes are partial then? Are Yogis asking same question in the next Vakaas I left in different words? And does Guru ji answer against the dress in the next one? Also why we need Rahao to decipher meaning here?[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
That’s why Dr Sahib Singh too mentions the history while interpreting this part.[/FONT]
Well, He may have mentioned the History while interpreting it but he did not reject the RAHAO verse of this Shabad. Infact he explained it quite well.[/FONT]
I have no inkling what you are thinking here again. The reason I mentioned Dr Sahib Singh jI’s mentioning History was to tell you that the verses I quoted contained Historical question, it has nothing to do with Rahao.
[/FONT]
This is what he said about RAHAO of this very Shabad:
Prof. Sahib Singh's words translated into English..
Rahao: Pause, Meaning- The main meaning- nectar of this LONG BAANI- SHABAD is in these 2 lines.
[/FONT]ਕਿਆਭਵੀਐਸਚਿਸੂਚਾਹੋਇ॥[/FONT]ਸਾਚਸਬਦਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਕੋਇ॥[/FONT]੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥[/FONT] {[/FONT]ਪੰਨਾ 938}[/FONT]
Yes, he says in context of essence of whole Bani, in no way this essence can answer anything related with a Historical question and answer. You are just confused about application of Rahoo, totally.
[/FONT]
PK70 ji, Do you disagree with Prof. Sahib Singh?[/FONT]
I wrote before, I agree with him but it’s you who have failed badly to understand him because he doesn’t apply “Rahao” meaning while interpreting Historical question and answer. If you look at Rahao Verses, there is no mention of the dress Guru Ji wore that Bana historically, in Rahao actually it’s against those who wander around like Yogis in search of God because Guru Ji was not concerned with a dress in this context but with his own views in context of searching Lord.
[/FONT]
PK70 ji,
We are all here to learn.[/FONT]
I disagree; there are some who just are here to troll. Why? When they ignore given facts and keep dragging the issue, there is no intention to learn, obviously.[/FONT]
That is why Guru Sahibs gave us the name Sikhs. [/FONT]
Yes but it doesn’t mean all of us measure up to that standard.[/FONT]
I hope to learn a lot from your Gurmat wisdom.[/FONT]
As I stated earlier, Gurmat is not what people say but you differ with me and all you think or others say become Gurmat for you, thats fine. For me, strictly what Gurbani teaches, is Gurmat, period. So again I disagree with your statement[/FONT].[/FONT]
So please bear with me with my questions. As you said, I am not even at the beginners stage yet but with your hlp, I will get there one day.[/FONT]
I didn’t call you a beginner I gave you an example of a beginner[/FONT](obviously it pinched you), Sorry if it really did.[/FONT].
[/FONT]
So I am waiting for the meaning in your own words of the whole 73 verses of this Shabad so I can learn fro your Gurmat knoweldge.[/FONT]
Sorry, I have already interpreted and explained what was important, the interpretation of whole 73 verses is not child’s play that I should do it on your request, when my beloved Master inspires me, I would do it and put on SPN.
[/FONT]
Thanks & Regards[/FONT]
Thanks regards[/FONT]
PK70[/FONT]
You mean RAHAO has no factual significance in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Why did our Gurus add RAHAO in almost all the Shabads in your opinion if it is only a theory? Can you please shine some Gurmat light about your claiming that RAHAO being a thoery. I did not claim that. I said the following about RAHAO in my post(Quote Vaheguru Seekr)
Respected Vaheguru Seekr Ji
I can debate with anyone but with people who have no patience to read and comprehend what is said and drag the issue uncalled for by ignoring given facts for personal pleasure. You have been noticed dragging the issue, and that displays you intentions,( I am going to prove it)forgive me I feel it is not worth wasting time with you. Reread my statement, it says I differ with your theory of Rahao “HERE” it doesn’t say anything about “Rahao” in context of whole Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji but you have dragged that in the context of Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji anyway. Call me an arrogant or whatever pleases you, I am not going to take bait you throw to troll any more. Why? I have proved that you ignored the word “Here” and look what you are writing all through your post because of that.
"We all know that RAHAO is the nectar of the whole Shabad and it gives us the main idea what this Shabad is all about. The rest of the verses of any Shabad compliment RAHAO. As urged by Gyani ji and many others, that all of us who express our viewpoints with the help of Gurbani, must give the complete Shabad and especially share the meaning of RAHAO."
Again you are talking in context of Rahao in context of whole SGGS Ji, and I didn’t say anything about it, my statement was about Rahao only in context of questioning and answering process, and I stated “the Rahoo used in Sidhgost doesn’t stand with all question and answer-process”. Remember the word I used in my statement “Here”! That restricts the application of my statement about Rahao but you have dragged it anyway
.So as you can see, I presented no theory just an understanding about it. You can also check the post that Gyani ji wrote about the importance of RAHAO he mentioned in it for your own clarifications. But if you claim it is only a theory, I would love to hear that from your Gurmat wisdom
I don’t follow Respected Gyani ji or any scholar with my eyes closed, so I stress and stand by my statement, in this case the Rahao in Sidhgost doesn’t contribute something particular to each and every question asked and answered. Its just an essence of this Bani in search of Lord.It is ok and to differ. As you have a theory about RAHAO, I thought you would express your theory. As you did not, let me ask you.
I differ with your theory of Raho bringing in where it is not applicable here(the context I quoted Guru Verses). I didn’t discuss Sidhgost- Essence but particular questioning and answering in context of Historical context.
What is your theory of RAHAO based on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Please enlighten us with your Gurmat knowledge.
I don’t have any Rahao theory, in some complete Banis, if it’s used once, it means the essence of the bani lies in there but that doesn’t mean all other ideas discussed do not go beyond Rahao-essence, I hope you have gone through JapJi, Guru ji never used Rahao in it , what will we do there without Rahao?
Any one even the one who is just a beginner can understand that the quotes I have given are questions and answers[/FONT] (quote PK70)[/FONT]
.
You are right. I am not as learned about Gurmat as you admit you are. That is the reason I ask you questions like these about your posts so that I may be able to catch a spark or 2 from the Gurmat knowledge that sparkles through you and your posts.[/FONT]
I wish these were your true intentions but unfortunately they are not, just take an example from my statement, I said something about Rahao in context of a particular context but you have dragged it to different way, intentions are crystal clear[/FONT]
Let me also confess one more thing that once I reach that beginners' stage that according to you, I have not yet, I would love to remain a beginner for the rest of my life. I do not want this learning process to end ever. I apologise for not understanding the questions and answers which in my viewpoint have nothing to do with your not giving the whole Shabad as requested by Antonia ji and Gyani Ji and others including myself, which is only fair thing to ask especially to a person like you who is drenched with Gurmat knowledge.[/FONT]
Please don’t try to flatter me, I don’t believe in it at all. And don’t mention contexts which are totally not applicable in my post. What I quoted, for that, not even next Vaak is needed to be quoted. There is a historical question and a factual answer, period.[/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
The Rahao gave in this bani has nothing to do with the process of questioning in particular(quote pk70).[/FONT]
If Rahao has nothing to so with the Shabad whose part you are talking about then, please share your Gurmat wisdom, why is it there?[/FONT]
The part I quoted doesn’t need that Rahao given in the beginning to justify anything.[/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
Rahao inserts Guru ji’s own views about Him in Sidhgost( that’s why it’s one time only in the beginning).(quote pk70) [/FONT]
Your above statement seems a bit confusing. Can you elaborate what do you mean by the above? [/FONT]
Let me help you here if I can: Rahao= a word you are talking about. Guru Ji inserts’ own view= Guru ji expresses his personal views in essence, about Him= About the Lord, in Sidhgost= name of a Bani( That’s why it’s one time only in the beginning= What Guru ji wants to say in context of Sidhgost in essence, he said in Rahaoo but doesn't use it another time because answers and questions cover other things too ) I hope(not sure) now you will understand it.[/FONT]
Only when you explain your theory about RAHAO in a Shabad, perhaps it may help. So I am waiting for that so even a beginner like me can understand the depth of your comment.[/FONT]
You have a theory, you think all questioning and answering in Sidhgost revolves around Rahoo which is incorrect( That is obvious reason of bringing Rahao repeatedly by you), another reason I don’t have such peculiar theory about Rahao. [/FONT]
Normally there is only one RAHAO in the Shabad. When there is more than one which is in some cases, then it is written as RAHAO Duja ( Second Rahao).[/FONT]
You should know This complete Sidhgost is not like an individual Shabad, its “ a complete process of questions and answers” occurred between Guru ji and Yogis. So your comparing it to an individual Shabad proves that you just don’t know what you are talking about
[/FONT]
I am sure you are aware that Sukhmani Sahib also has one RAHAO.
[/FONT]ਸੁਖਮਨੀਸੁਖਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਪ੍ਰਭਨਾਮੁ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]
[/FONT]Sukẖmanī sukẖ amriṯ parabẖ nām.[/FONT]
[/FONT]Sukhmani: Peace of Mind, the Nectar of the Name of God.[/FONT]
[/FONT]ਭਗਤਜਨਾਕੈਮਨਿਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ॥[/FONT]ਰਹਾਉ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]
[/FONT]Bẖagaṯ janā kai man bisrām. Rahā▫o.[/FONT]
[/FONT]The minds of the devotees abide in a joyful peace. ||Pause||[/FONT]
Again, as in above quotes in Sukhmani, this is the essence of Bani but in Sukhmani Guru ji also defines who is Brahamgyani, Who is Sant and those definitions have nothing to do with this Rahao –essence. I just wonder what is going in your mind![/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
What I have given are not a partial verses as per your theory riddled with your own assumption that points at me. These two Guru Vaakas stand alone due to the contest of the question and given answer[/FONT]. (pk70)[/FONT]
Well, I am sorry to say you are incorrect here. You did give the partial verses.[/FONT]
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used. Can you also elaborate on the word in context with the Shabad. According to the Dictionary Hermit means a recluse not a wanderer.
Following are the full verses, the literal translations by Bhai Manmohan Singh and then by Sant Singh Khlasa. You have used the word Hermit like Bhai Manmohan Singh used.
Bhai Manmohan Singh
Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.
(Ask the Yogis) Q. 23: What is the reason that forsaking thy home thou hast become a hermit?
Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.
Q. 24: What is the reason that thou hast adopted this dress?
Your partial Verse stops here.
Kis vakẖar ke ṯum vaṇjāre.
Q. 25: Of what merchandise art thou the customer?
Ki▫o kar sāth langẖāvahu pāre. ||17||
Q. 26: How shalt thou ferry across thy sect? [/FONT]
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī. [/FONT]
(Answers the Guru) A. 23: In search of the saints I have become a hermit.
Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.
A. 24: For the sake of the Lord's vision, I have adopted this costume.
Your partial Verse stops here.
Sācẖ vakẖar ke ham vaṇjāre.
A. 25: I am the trader of the true merchandise.
Nānak gurmukẖ uṯras pāre. ||18||
A. 26: Nanak, through the Guru's grace I shall ferry across(quoteVaheguru seekr Ji)[/FONT]
Again, I haven’t quoted partial verses because no next Vaak has anything to do with this question and answer[/FONT].[/FONT] These verses stand alone[/FONT]I don’t need to check its you who are totally confused with “Rahao and complete Shabad” concept. Here is what I posted, lets look at them again[/FONT]
“ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਗ੍ਰਿਹੁਤਜਿਓਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਇਹੁਭੇਖੁਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: For what reason did you forsake home to become hermit? For what reason did you adopt that dress?[/FONT]
Guru Ji answers those questions[/FONT]
ਗਰਮੁਖਿਖੋਜਤਭਏਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਦਰਸਨਕੈਤਾਈਭੇਖਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: In search of Gurmukhas I became hermit, to see them (meet personally) I adopted that dress (of Hermit)[/FONT]
“ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਗ੍ਰਿਹੁਤਜਿਓਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਇਹੁਭੇਖੁਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: For what reason did you forsake home to become hermit? For what reason did you adopt that dress?[/FONT]
Guru Ji answers those questions[/FONT]
ਗਰਮੁਖਿਖੋਜਤਭਏਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਦਰਸਨਕੈਤਾਈਭੇਖਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: In search of Gurmukhas I became hermit, to see them (meet personally) I adopted that dress (of Hermit)”(quote PK70)[/FONT]
Hermit is a kind of sadhu or Faqir in the eyes of general people, you want to call him wanderer, its fine but it doesn’t affect in any way my point posted in context of “Bana”[/FONT]
The quotes I have given above carry a question about the dress and an answer of Guru ji with a reason of why he wore it. The next verses you are quoting above carry different question and answer, don’t you see this answer in your quote ( Sach Vakhar ke ham vanjare) has nothing to do with the dress. In previous Vaak, the question was historical and was answered, a new question about what Guru Ji believes in and what he does for that, expressed in your given quotes. How my quotes are partial then? Are Yogis asking same question in the next Vakaas I left in different words? And does Guru ji answer against the dress in the next one? Also why we need Rahao to decipher meaning here?[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Quote:[/FONT]
That’s why Dr Sahib Singh too mentions the history while interpreting this part.[/FONT]
Well, He may have mentioned the History while interpreting it but he did not reject the RAHAO verse of this Shabad. Infact he explained it quite well.[/FONT]
I have no inkling what you are thinking here again. The reason I mentioned Dr Sahib Singh jI’s mentioning History was to tell you that the verses I quoted contained Historical question, it has nothing to do with Rahao.
[/FONT]
This is what he said about RAHAO of this very Shabad:
Prof. Sahib Singh's words translated into English..
Rahao: Pause, Meaning- The main meaning- nectar of this LONG BAANI- SHABAD is in these 2 lines.
[/FONT]ਕਿਆਭਵੀਐਸਚਿਸੂਚਾਹੋਇ॥[/FONT]ਸਾਚਸਬਦਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਕੋਇ॥[/FONT]੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥[/FONT] {[/FONT]ਪੰਨਾ 938}[/FONT]
Yes, he says in context of essence of whole Bani, in no way this essence can answer anything related with a Historical question and answer. You are just confused about application of Rahoo, totally.
[/FONT]
PK70 ji, Do you disagree with Prof. Sahib Singh?[/FONT]
I wrote before, I agree with him but it’s you who have failed badly to understand him because he doesn’t apply “Rahao” meaning while interpreting Historical question and answer. If you look at Rahao Verses, there is no mention of the dress Guru Ji wore that Bana historically, in Rahao actually it’s against those who wander around like Yogis in search of God because Guru Ji was not concerned with a dress in this context but with his own views in context of searching Lord.
[/FONT]
PK70 ji,
We are all here to learn.[/FONT]
I disagree; there are some who just are here to troll. Why? When they ignore given facts and keep dragging the issue, there is no intention to learn, obviously.[/FONT]
That is why Guru Sahibs gave us the name Sikhs. [/FONT]
Yes but it doesn’t mean all of us measure up to that standard.[/FONT]
I hope to learn a lot from your Gurmat wisdom.[/FONT]
As I stated earlier, Gurmat is not what people say but you differ with me and all you think or others say become Gurmat for you, thats fine. For me, strictly what Gurbani teaches, is Gurmat, period. So again I disagree with your statement[/FONT].[/FONT]
So please bear with me with my questions. As you said, I am not even at the beginners stage yet but with your hlp, I will get there one day.[/FONT]
I didn’t call you a beginner I gave you an example of a beginner[/FONT](obviously it pinched you), Sorry if it really did.
[/FONT].[/FONT]
So I am waiting for the meaning in your own words of the whole 73 verses of this Shabad so I can learn fro your Gurmat knoweldge.[/FONT]
Sorry, I have already interpreted and explained what was important, the interpretation of whole 73 verses is not child’s play that I should do it on your request, when my beloved Master inspires me, I would do it and put on SPN.
[/FONT]
Thanks & Regards[/FONT]
Thanks regards[/FONT]
PK70[/FONT]
Pk 70 ji,
Guru Fateh.
Thanks for the response. The facts speak for themselves. You can deny whatever you want as you did in your posts and be argumentative as usual. Your tone in your response does not bewilder me anymore.
I said:
"You are right. I am not as learned about Gurmat as you admit you are. That is the reason I ask you questions like these about your posts so that I may be able to catch a spark or 2 from the Gurmat knowledge that sparkles through you and your posts."
You have tried to play God earlier in your posts as well and you are doing the same now. One wonders why you feel this desperate need to play Ik Ong Kaar!
PK70 ji, FYI Only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at and what their true intentions are. You will never find that out, no matter how much to try to pretend to play HIM.
I said:
"This is what he said about RAHAO of this very Shabad:
Prof. Sahib Singh's words translated into English..
Rahao: Pause, Meaning- The main meaning- nectar of this LONG BAANI- SHABAD is in these 2 lines.
ਕਿਆਭਵੀਐਸਚਿਸੂਚਾਹੋਇ॥[/FONT]ਸਾਚਸਬਦਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਕੋਇ॥[/FONT]੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥[/FONT] {[/FONT]ਪੰਨਾ 938}"[/FONT]
Once again, let me explain what Prof. Sahib Singh said. He is talking about this very Shabad whose partial tuks you tried to explain. The URL is given in my post.
I said:
"So please bear with me with my questions. As you said, I am not even at the beginners stage yet but with your hlp, I will get there one day."
Once again you feel the need to play God. You above statement shows that. No, you did not pinch me. I am not offended by these petty remarks. It shows more about a person who is making them. But your own attitude when questioned shows the whole different story.
So who is asking these questions stating that I did not understand what you are talking about? It is me.
As I said, the facts about giving half tuks and your denying what Prof. Sahib Singh wrote about the RAHAO of this very Shabad say a lot.
Thanks once again for the elaborate response.
I do appreciate that.
Tejwant Singh
[/FONT]
Guru Fateh.
Thanks for the response. The facts speak for themselves. You can deny whatever you want as you did in your posts and be argumentative as usual. Your tone in your response does not bewilder me anymore.
I said:
"You are right. I am not as learned about Gurmat as you admit you are. That is the reason I ask you questions like these about your posts so that I may be able to catch a spark or 2 from the Gurmat knowledge that sparkles through you and your posts."
You have tried to play God earlier in your posts as well and you are doing the same now. One wonders why you feel this desperate need to play Ik Ong Kaar!
PK70 ji, FYI Only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at and what their true intentions are. You will never find that out, no matter how much to try to pretend to play HIM.
I said:
"This is what he said about RAHAO of this very Shabad:
Prof. Sahib Singh's words translated into English..
Rahao: Pause, Meaning- The main meaning- nectar of this LONG BAANI- SHABAD is in these 2 lines.
ਕਿਆਭਵੀਐਸਚਿਸੂਚਾਹੋਇ॥[/FONT]ਸਾਚਸਬਦਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਕੋਇ॥[/FONT]੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥[/FONT] {[/FONT]ਪੰਨਾ 938}"[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Once again, let me explain what Prof. Sahib Singh said. He is talking about this very Shabad whose partial tuks you tried to explain. The URL is given in my post.
I said:
"So please bear with me with my questions. As you said, I am not even at the beginners stage yet but with your hlp, I will get there one day."
[/FONT][/FONT]I didn’t call you a beginner I gave you an example of a beginner[/FONT](obviously it pinched you), Sorry if it really did.
Once again you feel the need to play God. You above statement shows that. No, you did not pinch me. I am not offended by these petty remarks. It shows more about a person who is making them. But your own attitude when questioned shows the whole different story.
So who is asking these questions stating that I did not understand what you are talking about? It is me.
As I said, the facts about giving half tuks and your denying what Prof. Sahib Singh wrote about the RAHAO of this very Shabad say a lot.
Thanks once again for the elaborate response.
I do appreciate that.
Tejwant Singh
[/FONT]
Pk 70 ji,
Guru Fateh.
Thanks for the response. The facts speak for themselves. You can deny whatever you want as you did in your posts and be argumentative as usual. You tone in your response does not bewilders me anymore.
I said:
"You are right. I am not as learned about Gurmat as you admit you are. That is the reason I ask you questions like these about your posts so that I may be able to catch a spark or 2 from the Gurmat knowledge that sparkles through you and your posts."
You have tried to play God earlier in your posts as well and you are doing the same now. One wonders why you feel this desperate need to play Ik Ong Kaar!
PK70 ji, FYI Only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at and what their true intentions are. You will never find that out, no matter how much to try to pretend to be HIM.
I said:
"This is what he said about RAHAO of this very Shabad:
Prof. Sahib Singh's words translated into English..
Rahao: Pause, Meaning- The main meaning- nectar of this LONG BAANI- SHABAD is in these 2 lines.
ਕਿਆਭਵੀਐਸਚਿਸੂਚਾਹੋਇ॥[/FONT]ਸਾਚਸਬਦਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਕੋਇ॥[/FONT]੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥[/FONT] {[/FONT]ਪੰਨਾ 938}"[/FONT]
Once again, let me explain what Prof. Sahib Singh said. He is talking about this very Shabad whose partial tuks you tried to explain. The URL is given in my post.
I said:
"So please bear with me with my questions. As you said, I am not even at the beginners stage yet but with your hlp, I will get there one day."
Once again you feel the need to play God. You above statement shows that. No you did not pinch me. I am not offended by these petty remarks. It shows more about a person who is making them. But your own attitude when questioned shows the whole different stories.
So who is asking these questions stating that I did not understand what you are talking about? It is me.
As I said, the facts about giving half tuks and your denying what Prof. Sahib Singh wrote about the RAHAO of this very Shabad says a lot.
Thanks once again for the elaborate response.
I do appreciate that.
Tejwant Singh
[/FONT]
Waheguru Seekr Jio
NO, thanks for the bait as I promised I shall not take it, thanks for the try though.
Regards
pk70
Some people here just like picking fights for no reason.:whisling::whisling::whisling:
Guur Piayario Jios,
For what its worth...there are Tuks and panktees that DO STAND ALONE. The ones based on Question/Answer for example in Sidh Ghost are examples.
RAHAO is used where Guru Ji discusses contemporary thoughts/theories/popularly accepted myths etc and the GURU MATT VIEW is reinforced in the RAHAO tuks.
This is where Leaving out the RAHAO ( GURU MATT) is widely practised because then that leaves the OPPOSITE views..the myths/the theories/popular beleifs etc to be misrepesentingly presented as GURBANI SANCTIONED..."by just being there" SEE GURBANI SAYS SO !!!..while what GURU MATT actually REFUTES THEM in THE RAHAO TUKS... is conveneintly left oUT. That is the rationale behind the COMPLETE SHABAD INCLUDING RAHAO to get the complete picture and NOT a distorted one.
I havent found any attempt at distortion/misrepresentation in these posts above.
For what its worth...there are Tuks and panktees that DO STAND ALONE. The ones based on Question/Answer for example in Sidh Ghost are examples.
RAHAO is used where Guru Ji discusses contemporary thoughts/theories/popularly accepted myths etc and the GURU MATT VIEW is reinforced in the RAHAO tuks.
This is where Leaving out the RAHAO ( GURU MATT) is widely practised because then that leaves the OPPOSITE views..the myths/the theories/popular beleifs etc to be misrepesentingly presented as GURBANI SANCTIONED..."by just being there" SEE GURBANI SAYS SO !!!..while what GURU MATT actually REFUTES THEM in THE RAHAO TUKS... is conveneintly left oUT. That is the rationale behind the COMPLETE SHABAD INCLUDING RAHAO to get the complete picture and NOT a distorted one.
I havent found any attempt at distortion/misrepresentation in these posts above.
Guur Piayario Jios,
For what its worth...there are Tuks and panktees that DO STAND ALONE. The ones based on Question/Answer for example in Sidh Ghost are examples.
RAHAO is used where Guru Ji discusses contemporary thoughts/theories/popularly accepted myths etc and the GURU MATT VIEW is reinforced in the RAHAO tuks.(quotes Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji)
Thanks Respected Gyani ji for grasping "standing alone" tuks in that context, and in fact understanding the concept of Rahao and its application so quickly, I admire such understanding..
Regards
G Singh
For what its worth...there are Tuks and panktees that DO STAND ALONE. The ones based on Question/Answer for example in Sidh Ghost are examples.
RAHAO is used where Guru Ji discusses contemporary thoughts/theories/popularly accepted myths etc and the GURU MATT VIEW is reinforced in the RAHAO tuks.(quotes Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji)
Thanks Respected Gyani ji for grasping "standing alone" tuks in that context, and in fact understanding the concept of Rahao and its application so quickly, I admire such understanding..
Regards
G Singh
Gyani ji,
Guru Fateh.
Let us agree to disagree. I agree with Prof Sahib Singh regarding the significance of RAHAO of this particular Shabad as mentioned by him.
Tejwant Singh
Gyani ji,
Guru fateh.
One more thing I forgot to mention that if the partial tuks mentioned above STOOD ALONE, as you mentioned above, then there would be 146 tuks rather than the original 73. So I trust our Guru Nanak's vision and reasoning for writing them the way he did and I respect his decision to number them as he did. Now a person can think anyway to justify one's point of view. Guru Nanak knew better when he numbered the tuks and what he meant by that, and what significance he gave when added RAHAO - the nectar of the shabad-to this long SHABAD.
I am in no way to question his wisdom. We all know the way SGGS is written and numbered so it can not be altered at will, but as I mentioned before, lets agree to disagree. Gurbani speaks for itself.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Just a note this shabad above is not saying the 5 k's are useless or anything along these lines. Guru Sahib is speaking about duality and outward show here and how people fall victim to it by not purifying within.
If you are looking for a shabad that speaks on the 5 k's/ Khalsa then read Anand Sahib where Guru Sahib speaks about inwardly pure and outwardly pure.
Thanks
Singh
Dear Tony Ji,
I was going through the thread and saw that no one has answered your valid question. Reason being the answer you want is not there.
Let me try it as Sikh symbols stand for;
1. Sikh History.
2. Identity.
3. Sikh Politics.
4. Sikh Faith.
There will always be some tension between those committed to finding the truth about 5 K’s in a reasonably understanding way in the present and those with inherited understanding, who wants to preserve their blind religious way. This challenge has to be dealt with human maturity in a constructive and creative way with the younger generation in Diaspora, who will not blindly accept any thing presented to them.
ਮੈ ਅਵਰੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਵਸਿ ਰਹੇ ॥ ਭੇਖੁ ਭਵਨੀ ਹਠੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਚੁ ਗਹਿ ਰਹੇ ॥
Mai avar gi­ān na ḏẖi­ān pūjā har nām anṯar vas rahė. Bẖėkẖ bẖavnī haṯẖ na jānā nānkā sacẖ geh rahė.
I have no other spiritual wisdom, meditation or worship; the Name of the Akal Purkh alone dwells deep within me. I know nothing about religious robes, pilgrimages or stubborn fanaticism; O Nanak, I hold tight to the Truth. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 844-1
I am still arrogant, self-righteous, with no humility, even phony at times, but trying to make an honest attempt to become a better person and help my fellow men. I may be one person in the world, but whom I help; I may be the world for him/her. Sikh Faith instills humility in us to serve a greater cause than ourselves. It reminds us of our common humanity and our essentials of equality in it and sees us through life’s trials.
It is far more impressive when others discover your good qualities without your help. ~Author Unknown.
Guess, what I will never be a saint, but what ever I am I believe in accepting to humbly live under the Will of God considering myself lowest of the low.
ਸਭ ਤੇ ਨੀਚੁ ਆਤਮ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਉ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਇਹੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਧਾਰਉ ॥
Sabẖṯė nīcẖ āṯam kar mān¬o man meh ih sukẖḏẖāra¬o.
I judge myself to be the lowest of all; in this way, I instill peace within my mind. -----Guru Arjan Dev, Raag Devgandhari, AGGS, Page, 532-2
ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਛੁ ਹਉ ਨਹੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਆਹਿ ਨ ਮੋਰਾ॥ ਅਉਸਰ ਲਜਾ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਧਨਾ ਜਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ॥
Mai Naahi Kuch How Nahee Kich Aah Na Mora, Aousar Lajaa Raakh Layh Sadhna Jan Tora.
I am nothing, I have nothing, and nothing belongs to me. Now, protect my honor; Sadhana is Your humble servant.-----Bhagat Sadhana, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 858-17
Cordially,
Virinder
Virinder, what does wanting have to do here, we are discussing. There is no need to get upset. You misunderstood my post and I explained it to you. Don't shot the messenger.
Virinder, what valid question would this be? Because we have tony saying that das has answered his question about 5 k's.
Sangat ji
here is the whole shabd which starts on ang sung 843 and to ang sung 844. The way Virinder has only given tuks, it will mislead and is taken out of context to what the shabad is actually saying.
BILAAVAL, FIRST MEHL: My mind is filled with such a great joy; I have blossomed forth in Truth. I am enticed by the love of my Husband Lord, the Eternal, Imperishable Lord God. The Lord is everlasting, the Master of masters. Whatever He wills, happens. O Great Giver, You are always kind and compassionate. ang 843
You infuse life into all living beings. I have no other spiritual wisdom, meditation or worship; the Name of the Lord alone dwells deep within me. I know nothing about religious robes, pilgrimages or stubborn fanaticism; O Nanak, I hold tight to the Truth. || 1 || The night is beautiful, drenched with dew, and the day is delightful, when her Husband Lord wakes the sleeping soulbride, in the home of the self. The young bride has awakened to the Word of the Shabad; she is pleasing to her Husband Lord. So renounce falsehood, fraud, love of duality and working for people. The Name of the Lord is my necklace, and I am anointed with the True Shabad. With his palms pressed together, Nanak begs for the gift of the True Name; please, bless me with Your Grace, through the pleasure of Your Will. || 2 || Awake, O bride of splendored eyes, and chant the Word of the Guru.s Bani. Listen, and place your faith in the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. The Unspoken Speech, the state of Nirvaanaa . how rare is the Gurmukh who understands this. Merging in the Word of the Shabad, self-conceit is eradicated, and the three worlds are revealed to her understanding. Remaining detached, with infinity infusing, the true mind cherishes the virtues of the Lord. He is fully pervading and permeating all places; Nanak has enshrined Him within his heart. || 3 || The Lord is calling you to the Mansion of His Presence; O soul-bride, He is the Lover of His devotees. Following the Guru.s Teachings, your mind shall be delighted, and your body shall be fulfilled. Conquer and subdue your mind, and love the Word of the Shabad; reform yourself, and realize the Lord of the three worlds. Her mind shall not waver or wander anywhere else, when she comes to know her Husband Lord. You are my only Support, You are my Lord and Master. You are my strength and anchor. She is forever truthful and pure, O Nanak; through the Word of the Guru.s Shabad, conflicts are resolved. || 4 || 2 || ang 844
:welcome:
Respected VSGREWAL JI
I humbly request you not to misquote Gurbani to support your thinking.
If we misunderstand Gurbani correctly, we can pass it on correctly. If we don’t, we do disservice to Guru just as if we write something different and others imply it in wrong way, in Gurbani, one should keep all respect for Guru in mind. I have nothing against you to teach Tony Ji and convince him whatever you think is right, problem occurs when you use Gurbani in wrong context. .Now let’s look at the complete Verses as given by Singh Ji, here it is
“Sangat ji
here is the whole shabd which starts on ang sung 843 and to ang sung 844. The way Virinder has only given tuks, it will mislead and is taken out of context to what the shabad is actually saying.[/FONT]
BILAAVAL, FIRST MEHL: My mind is filled with such a great joy; I have blossomed forth in Truth. I am enticed by the love of my Husband Lord, the Eternal, Imperishable Lord God. The Lord is everlasting, the Master of masters. Whatever He wills, happens. O Great Giver, You are always kind and compassionate. ang 843[/FONT]
You infuse life into all living beings. I have no other spiritual wisdom, meditation or worship; the Name of the Lord alone dwells deep within me. I know nothing about religious robes, pilgrimages or stubborn fanaticism; O Nanak, I hold tight to the Truth. || 1 || The night is beautiful, drenched with dew, and the day is delightful, when her Husband Lord wakes the sleeping soulbride, in the home of the self. The young bride has awakened to the Word of the Shabad; she is pleasing to her Husband Lord. So renounce falsehood, fraud, love of duality and working for people. The Name of the Lord is my necklace, and I am anointed with the True Shabad. With his palms pressed together, Nanak begs for the gift of the True Name; please, bless me with Your Grace, through the pleasure of Your Will. || 2 || Awake, O bride of splendored eyes, and chant the Word of the Guru.s Bani. Listen, and place your faith in the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. The Unspoken Speech, the state of Nirvaanaa . how rare is the Gurmukh who understands this. Merging in the Word of the Shabad, self-conceit is eradicated, and the three worlds are revealed to her understanding. Remaining detached, with infinity infusing, the true mind cherishes the virtues of the Lord. He is fully pervading and permeating all places; Nanak has enshrined Him within his heart. || 3 || The Lord is calling you to the Mansion of His Presence; O soul-bride, He is the Lover of His devotees. Following the Guru.s Teachings, your mind shall be delighted, and your body shall be fulfilled. Conquer and subdue your mind, and love the Word of the Shabad; reform yourself, and realize the Lord of the three worlds. Her mind shall not waver or wander anywhere else, when she comes to know her Husband Lord. You are my only Support, You are my Lord and Master. You are my strength and anchor. She is forever truthful and pure, O Nanak; through the Word of the Guru.s Shabad, conflicts are resolved. || 4 || 2 || ang 844( quote Singh Ji)[/FONT]
In a nutshell, when you reach to that state of mind, all like religious pilgrimage, religious robes, religious worship and tough ways to please Akaalpurakh become insignificant as per Guru Experience. You imply it on Sikh Bana which is not a religious robe, anyone, who wears is not considered as a religious seer as it is in case of robes of Kazi, Pundit and Sadhu, Hermit etc. Bhekh in Guru Shabad is about those who wear a special religious robe and appear to be religious when they wear that robe. How you can keep implying it in case of Sikh Bana, which is beyond my comprehension. You must question Guru Gobind Singh Ji openly who asked Sikhs to wear Bana. Did Guru ji declare it a religious robe without which no one can realize HIM? If not then why are you quoting Gurbani targeting “religious robes" to dismiss Sikh Bana? Did Tenth Nanak not understand Guru Nanak as you have done or you are just implying your own thinking in context of Sikh Bana,? You bet respected vsgrewal Ji, you are implying your own thinking. Remember, Tony Ji is asking in context of 5 Kakaars. Isnt it your answer in that context? I went through this thread, not a single person has stated that without this Bana, one cannot realize Akaalpurakh, it’s your attempt to negate of 5 Kakars that are questioned repeatedly but you are bent on your agenda and keep misquoting Gurbani, I wonder why? I never did and will never question those Sikhs who do not wear 5 Kakars unlike your practice of negating 5 Kakars. Respected VSGREWAL JI, if you want to teach something to Tony Ji, tell why Guru Gobind Singh ji offered 5 Kakaars to Sikhs or you prove Guru ji didn’t but Sikhs themselves chose them. If you agree Guru ji gave, then tell Tony Ji’s their importance at your own. Gurbani literally doesn’t address 5 Kakaars. Thanks.
Regards
G Singh
I humbly request you not to misquote Gurbani to support your thinking.
If we misunderstand Gurbani correctly, we can pass it on correctly. If we don’t, we do disservice to Guru just as if we write something different and others imply it in wrong way, in Gurbani, one should keep all respect for Guru in mind. I have nothing against you to teach Tony Ji and convince him whatever you think is right, problem occurs when you use Gurbani in wrong context. .Now let’s look at the complete Verses as given by Singh Ji, here it is
“Sangat ji
here is the whole shabd which starts on ang sung 843 and to ang sung 844. The way Virinder has only given tuks, it will mislead and is taken out of context to what the shabad is actually saying.[/FONT]
BILAAVAL, FIRST MEHL: My mind is filled with such a great joy; I have blossomed forth in Truth. I am enticed by the love of my Husband Lord, the Eternal, Imperishable Lord God. The Lord is everlasting, the Master of masters. Whatever He wills, happens. O Great Giver, You are always kind and compassionate. ang 843[/FONT]
You infuse life into all living beings. I have no other spiritual wisdom, meditation or worship; the Name of the Lord alone dwells deep within me. I know nothing about religious robes, pilgrimages or stubborn fanaticism; O Nanak, I hold tight to the Truth. || 1 || The night is beautiful, drenched with dew, and the day is delightful, when her Husband Lord wakes the sleeping soulbride, in the home of the self. The young bride has awakened to the Word of the Shabad; she is pleasing to her Husband Lord. So renounce falsehood, fraud, love of duality and working for people. The Name of the Lord is my necklace, and I am anointed with the True Shabad. With his palms pressed together, Nanak begs for the gift of the True Name; please, bless me with Your Grace, through the pleasure of Your Will. || 2 || Awake, O bride of splendored eyes, and chant the Word of the Guru.s Bani. Listen, and place your faith in the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. The Unspoken Speech, the state of Nirvaanaa . how rare is the Gurmukh who understands this. Merging in the Word of the Shabad, self-conceit is eradicated, and the three worlds are revealed to her understanding. Remaining detached, with infinity infusing, the true mind cherishes the virtues of the Lord. He is fully pervading and permeating all places; Nanak has enshrined Him within his heart. || 3 || The Lord is calling you to the Mansion of His Presence; O soul-bride, He is the Lover of His devotees. Following the Guru.s Teachings, your mind shall be delighted, and your body shall be fulfilled. Conquer and subdue your mind, and love the Word of the Shabad; reform yourself, and realize the Lord of the three worlds. Her mind shall not waver or wander anywhere else, when she comes to know her Husband Lord. You are my only Support, You are my Lord and Master. You are my strength and anchor. She is forever truthful and pure, O Nanak; through the Word of the Guru.s Shabad, conflicts are resolved. || 4 || 2 || ang 844( quote Singh Ji)[/FONT]
In a nutshell, when you reach to that state of mind, all like religious pilgrimage, religious robes, religious worship and tough ways to please Akaalpurakh become insignificant as per Guru Experience. You imply it on Sikh Bana which is not a religious robe, anyone, who wears is not considered as a religious seer as it is in case of robes of Kazi, Pundit and Sadhu, Hermit etc. Bhekh in Guru Shabad is about those who wear a special religious robe and appear to be religious when they wear that robe. How you can keep implying it in case of Sikh Bana, which is beyond my comprehension. You must question Guru Gobind Singh Ji openly who asked Sikhs to wear Bana. Did Guru ji declare it a religious robe without which no one can realize HIM? If not then why are you quoting Gurbani targeting “religious robes" to dismiss Sikh Bana? Did Tenth Nanak not understand Guru Nanak as you have done or you are just implying your own thinking in context of Sikh Bana,? You bet respected vsgrewal Ji, you are implying your own thinking. Remember, Tony Ji is asking in context of 5 Kakaars. Isnt it your answer in that context? I went through this thread, not a single person has stated that without this Bana, one cannot realize Akaalpurakh, it’s your attempt to negate of 5 Kakars that are questioned repeatedly but you are bent on your agenda and keep misquoting Gurbani, I wonder why? I never did and will never question those Sikhs who do not wear 5 Kakars unlike your practice of negating 5 Kakars. Respected VSGREWAL JI, if you want to teach something to Tony Ji, tell why Guru Gobind Singh ji offered 5 Kakaars to Sikhs or you prove Guru ji didn’t but Sikhs themselves chose them. If you agree Guru ji gave, then tell Tony Ji’s their importance at your own. Gurbani literally doesn’t address 5 Kakaars. Thanks.
Regards
G Singh
Dear Singh Ji,
I am not upset. I want to call my self lowest of the low. Please accept my gratitude from the core of my heart for your suggestions and comments.
Regards.
Virinder
I am not upset. I want to call my self lowest of the low. Please accept my gratitude from the core of my heart for your suggestions and comments.
Regards.
Virinder
Dear G Singh Ji,
Thanks for your constructive thoughts. We all are on the same page and sending the same message with different words.
I end this debate on 5K's from my side.
Regards.
Cordially,
Virinder
At this point -- approximately 200 hours at -5 GMT anything unrelated to the topic posted in the last day has been removed. Please debate issues not personalities. Next infractions will be issued. Please post entire shabads. If not your post will be edited for you. Thank you.
Thanks for your constructive thoughts. We all are on the same page and sending the same message with different words.
I end this debate on 5K's from my side.
Regards.
Cordially,
Virinder
At this point -- approximately 200 hours at -5 GMT anything unrelated to the topic posted in the last day has been removed. Please debate issues not personalities. Next infractions will be issued. Please post entire shabads. If not your post will be edited for you. Thank you.
Last edited by a moderator:
Wahe guru ji ka khalsa
i belive that you are born in sikh family its doesnt mean that you are a sikh becuase a sikh would never question whats guru ji had said if you have got are not sure that dont call the guru but if you are sure then dont question guruji
as i dont belive that anybody should give reason to any other sikh regarding what any guru had said if sikh are not sure then dont call yourself a sikh
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