The Problem With Agnostics!

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

OK, harhansj24, I have no argument with that.

Except that I do believe that someday, the quest will end. Someday, with the Kirpaa and Parsad of Akaal Purakh, we'll go home remerge with our Husband.

:happy:

:ice:

 

[AusDesi]

Agnosticism is about knowledge or the lack of it. So they don't really agree with everyone. its more like well show me the proof which proves or disproves god.

 

[harbansj24]

Yes Maiji, and when that happens then we (mankind) will cease to exist in its present form!

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Yes Maiji, and when that happens then we (mankind) will cease to exist in its present form!

And this game will be over...I wonder what will happen next??? :meditation:

 

[harbansj24]

Then HE will start another game!

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Then HE will start another game!

The Mind Boggles!! :worship:

 

[Lee]

I'm afraid brothers and sisters that i sghall have to disgree with the Op's initial thought.
Agnostics as far as belife in God goes, say that there is no proof one way or the other and so take (to my mind) the only logical route of witholding judgement on that particular question.

Both Atheists and Theists have made their minds up and so both are gulity of 'unreasonable' supposition.

Agnosticism is far away from fence sitting and owes it postition to logical thought, all in all not a bad thing, to my mind.

 

[AusDesi]

What I meant by saying that true Sikhs are Agnostics is that Sikhs though firm believers in God

You contradict your own point. Once you say 'I believe there is a god' you are no longer an agnostic because as Lee ji says Agnostics withold their judgement on the existence of god.

 

[harbansj24]

Lee ji & AusDesi ji,

I have made myself clear, that Sikhs believe in God but admit they do not understand him in HIS entirety. Collins Dictionary defines it as:
A person who holds that knowledge of Supreme being, ultimate cause etc is impossible.

I have taken it to mean that God is not completely knowable. There can be philosophical discussions on it. Narayanjot ji and Mai ji can hold fort on that.

 

[Lee]

Lee ji & AusDesi ji,

I have made myself clear, that Sikhs believe in God but admit they do not understand him in HIS entirety. Collins Dictionary defines it as:
A person who holds that knowledge of Supreme being, ultimate cause etc is impossible.

I have taken it to mean that God is not completely knowable. There can be philosophical discussions on it. Narayanjot ji and Mai ji can hold fort on that.

Harbans ji,

Let us see where following that logic takes us.

I like learning, I like to learn about whatever it is that takes my fancy from one day to the next. In every concivable way I am indeed a 'jack of all trades'. My knowledge though is restricted to a laymans knowledge about mostly eveything I know about.

For instane, I am interested in qunatum sciences, but my knowlegde only goes so far before it all goes over my head.

Am I then Agnostic about quantum sciences?

 

[harbansj24]

English language has developed so far only because of such creative inputs. So far Agnostics is only about mans know-ability of God.

But can we say that the entire mankind will only understand Quantum physics only this far for all times?

 

[Randip Singh]

I'm afraid brothers and sisters that i sghall have to disgree with the Op's initial thought.
Agnostics as far as belife in God goes, say that there is no proof one way or the other and so take (to my mind) the only logical route of witholding judgement on that particular question.

Both Atheists and Theists have made their minds up and so both are gulity of 'unreasonable' supposition.

Agnosticism is far away from fence sitting and owes it postition to logical thought, all in all not a bad thing, to my mind.

Hi Lee,

Interesting view, but in Sikhism we say God is within us and we have to tune ourselves (like a radio) to realise what God is. God is in effect Truth.

Therefore is we meet these God tuned people is it not reasonable to say we have seen God?

I think in Sikhism God is for all intents and purposes like "The Force" in the Star Wars films.

If you give in to Lust, Anger, Greed, Egotism and Materialism, you are in effect trying to manipulate God....and from what I have seen, like the Star Wars films, this usually ends up in tears. Siths always betray each other.

So when I see people chosing Love (rather than lust), Patience/Tolerance (rather than Anger), Moderation (rather than Greed), Humility (rather than Egotism), and Detachment* (rather than Materialism), I see God........in the George Lucas world this is a Jedi and they all care for one another and everyone else. Like the Sikhs they are Guardians of the people.

Guru Nanak states "Higher than Truth is Truthful Living", therefore when I see people actually practicisng this truth I see God.

*Note when I say detachment I do not mean renunciation.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

If you give in to Lust, Anger, Greed, Egotism and Materialism, you are in effect trying to manipulate God....and from what I have seen, like the Star Wars films, this usually ends up in tears. Siths always betray each other.

So when I see people chosing Love (rather than lust), Patience/Tolerance (rather than Anger), Moderation (rather than Greed), Humility (rather than Egotism), and Detachment* (rather than Materialism), I see God........in the George Lucas world this is a Jedi and they all care for one another and everyone else. Like the Sikhs they are Guardians of the people.

I read it somewhere, can not remember where that the Star Wars is based on Sikhi thought that George Lucas researched and developed the idea from.


Tejwant Singh

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Lee ji (Oh, that sounds like a song! Shall we dance?),:afriends2:

Harbans ji,

Let us see where following that logic takes us.

I like learning, I like to learn about whatever it is that takes my fancy from one day to the next. In every concivable way I am indeed a 'jack of all trades'. My knowledge though is restricted to a laymans knowledge about mostly eveything I know about.

For instane, I am interested in qunatum sciences, but my knowlegde only goes so far before it all goes over my head.

Am I then Agnostic about quantum sciences?

I think "agnostic" does not refer to that which is unknown, but that which is unknowable. Although your intellect may be incapable of grasping quantum mechanics, there is nothing that prevents somebody's human brain from this understanding.

Akaal Purakh is different in that the human brain/mind is incapable of grasping It in more than a superficial way, incomplete; only the most infinitesimal part is available to our sort of intellect/consciousness. Any more than that tiny bit would destroy us in our present form.

And, again, welcome.

:ice:

 

[Randip Singh]

I read it somewhere, can not remember where that the Star Wars is based on Sikhi thought that George Lucas researched and developed the idea from.


Tejwant Singh

Yes, that was my post, a long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away,


but it seems to have been circulated to everyone around the world.

I should have asked for 1 penny from everyone who read it. I would have at least £10 by now

 

[Randip Singh]

The thing is, even an Atheist believes in some sort of higher power. His higher power is Science.

The Theist, believes in a higher power God.

The Agnostic, is neither here nor there?

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

The thing is, even an Atheist believes in some sort of higher power. His higher power is Science.

The Theist, believes in a higher power God.

The Agnostic, is neither here nor there?

Actually Randip Singh ji, some Atheists do not even believe in Science. They believe in their own selves or maybe Ayn Rand.

As for - off topic, but what the heck?! - science fiction has been an important part of Sikh history in North America. Many NAs first heard about Sikhs on Star Trek's episode, the Space Seed. OK, he had the unlikely name of Khan Noonien Singh and was a mona played by a Latino, - and he was an ARCH VILLAIN, the most villainous villain on Star Trek until the Borg - but it was a start.

And it is also rumoured that the Klingon emblem was adapted from the Khanda and the Klingons were adapted from US.

And now I have totally given myself away. Yes, I'm a Trekkie (NOT one of those newfangled Trekkers, I'm an old school purist) a nerd and possibly a geek. I don't think I'm a dork, though.

And, believe it or not, there is a website, Sikhs in Science Fiction Sikhs in Fiction

:ice:

 

[spnadmin]

A wonderful example of UK and Canada sharing dominion over intergalactic affairs. When do we hear from the Federation, or are you it?

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

A wonderful example of UK and Canada sharing dominion over intergalactic affairs. When do we hear from the Federation, or are you it?

Narayanjot ji,
FYI, Commander William Thomas Riker is the highest ranking Canadian in the whole series.

I believe that Randip Singh ji of the UKmay not be a nerd or a geek. One is permitted to be a fan of Star Wars without belonging to nerddom or geekdom, but Star Trek, you know...

I'll let you know immediately when the Federation contacts me. No, I'm not the Federation, although I was once - inaccurately - called the Maharani Harinder of Khalistan (my initials).:rofl!!:

BTW, check out the turban in that picture. :crazy:

:ice:

 

[Randip Singh]

Narayanjot ji,
FYI, Commander William Thomas Riker is the highest ranking Canadian in the whole series.

I believe that Randip Singh ji of the UKmay not be a nerd or a geek. One is permitted to be a fan of Star Wars without belonging to nerddom or geekdom, but Star Trek, you know...

I'll let you know immediately when the Federation contacts me. No, I'm not the Federation, although I was once - inaccurately - called the Maharani Harinder of Khalistan (my initials).:rofl!!:

BTW, check out the turban in that picture. :crazy:

:ice:

On the contrary, I am well aware of the dastardly Kanoonien Singhs plans.......his beard seems to have been lost in a freak accident

Back to Atheists, then if they believe in themselves, then that is their higher power.