Islam The Quran: The Way All Praise God

[sandeep17oct]

Satnam namji{censored}aur ji
Thank you so much for your extremely kind words. It would be wrong to say that I have been able to completely put Gurmat into action but I am in the struggle. I have been acquainted with Sikhi since 3-4 years but there were bits and pieces before also.Again thank you so much for your kind words.

 

[Ambarsaria]

namji{censored}aur ji I am not generalizing or talking of mainstream.

Oh, my! Are you seriously saying that an extremist from Al-Qaeda is who you perceive as a leader amongst mainstream Muslims? No, no, no. Not at all. Most Muslims would be very offended by a statement which implies that he is revered by the ummah (Muslim community).
Nam Jiwan

Even fraction of Islam linked young men following him is bigger than body Sikhism. You see the results worldwide.

Both kids, the one auctioned off in Saudi and the other coaxed into killing self in Afghanistan I have great pity for. You may want to check what happened to the person auctioned in Saudi. Some of the people killed in Syria suicide bombings died because of him.

Don't tell me the people in those videos aside from the young men do not associate with mainstream Islam and are not held in regard. That is the aspect I tried to flag too. These are people mainstream in their countries espousing and claiming to be guided by principles of Islam.

In terms of the following in your next post,

You recently put down Bawa Muhaiyaddeen. You looked for whatever you could to make him fit into your point of view.

Dear sister, I went to the website that you gave reference to. It was so easily discernible and I was actually shocked to read how mainstream he was even though portraying something different. I do not double speak and I don't like double speak as that is what I observed. There is no question that I may possibly be wrong. But I visited with high and positive expectations as I have liking for Sufism too from the brand of Sufism I was aware of. I found little evidence of that.

I enjoy your posts and information you share. If my posts are not conducive to the way you expect your threads to proceed or develop I can stop reacting or responding. However, if my inner self speaks I of course will post per spn TOS.

Regards.

 

[namjiwankaur]

namji{censored}aur ji I am not generalizing or talking of mainstream.

In what ways are Bawa and al-Qaeda "mainstream" Muslims according to your understanding?

Even fraction of Islam linked young men following him is bigger than body Sikhism.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims and 23 million Sikhs. Could that be part of the equation?

For the conversation to be balanced, we should include the fact that Sikhism has its own terrorist and extremist groups (though I have no interest in degrading Sikhism by spending time on Sikh terrorism. I think they exist despite Sikhism not because of it).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_extremism
http://rivr.sulekha.com/list-of-sikh-terrorist-groups_417504_blog

Should I therefore assume that the majority of Sikhs support Sikh terrorists?

Some of people killed in Syria suicide bombings died because of him.

The people of Syria are Muslims suffering from a corrupt government that forgets what Muhammad taught about the ummah (Muslim community).

'And hold fast , all of you together to the rope of Allah , and do not seperate'
(Quran 3:103)

'Te believers are naught else than brothers. Therefore make peace between your brethren and observe your duty to Allah that haply ye may obtain mercy' (49:10)

Prophet Muhammed said
"You shall not enter Paradise until you believe; and you will not bellieve until you love one another. Shall I not guide you to a thing? Which when done , will make you love one another: Spread the greeting of Salam among you"- (Muslim)

Ego is the cause of all violence.

So they are not enemies because they are Muslims practicing Islam. They are Muslims who are NOT practicing Islam.


And as an oppressed people, all Muslims are obligated to stand up to their oppressor.

Muhammad said, “Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed.” The Prophet was asked: “It is right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?” He replied: “By preventing him from oppressing others.” {Bukhari}

Dear sister, I went to website you gave reference to. It was so easily discernible and I was actually shocked to read mainstream he was even though portraying something different.

What there shocked you? What was so shocking about his message? I'm not sure what you mean.

Would you tell me how long you spent at the site? And how many of the books you read?

What is your definition of "mainstream" Islam? Maybe that will help me understand where you are coming from?

I do not double speak and I don't like double speak as is what I observed. re is no question

Where did you find doublespeak?

But I visited with high and positive expectations as I have liking for Sufism too from brand of Sufism I was aware of. I found little evidence of .

How were you disappointed?

I enjoy posts and information you share.

Frankly, I am not so sure. But you don't have to enjoy them.

If my posts are not conducive to way you expect threads to proceed or develop I can stop reacting or responding. ever, if my inner self speaks I of course will post per spn TOS.

Post away. I am just defending those who are innocent of what you have accused them of.

We should reflect upon each thing in a state of love.
Our love should be fragrant.
Our every word should bring sweetness to the heart
and be tasty to the tongue.
Our every gaze should bring peace and happiness to others.
We should have the kind of embrace that draws
all children to our hearts with love.
We have nothing else to give others, only our hearts.
When we give our hearts, we emit that love.
At once, people’s hunger will cease and they will be
filled with love, compassion, and a beautiful taste.
We may not have water or food to give, we may
be starving too, but we are not without love and compassion.
As soon as we talk to others, and give them love and compassion,
their tiredness, sadness, and worry will leave them.
Then we can offer them some water,
and they can drink it and be refreshed.
Muhammad Raheem Bawa Muhaiyaddeen (Ral.)
To Die Before Death:The Sufi Way of Life, p. 221

Nam Jiwan peacesignkaur

 

[Ambarsaria]

In what ways are Bawa and al-Qaeda "mainstream" Muslims according to your understanding?

I did not say anything about Bawa followers.


Namji{censored}aur ji I have nothing against Bawa I simply stated that I did not find him the way you described him in a very casual search of the website you referenced. If I study more like you I perhaps would see it differently, but I have no such plans. If it is a source of joy, happiness and spiritual guidance and nourishment, I am no body to say anything. So if my words offended I regret.

Followers of Al-waki are the only one's I mentioned. I am sure in the grand scheme of things they are not mainstream. But they are in millions as aspiring or following his philosophy.

For the conversation to be balanced, we should include the fact that Sikhism has its own terrorist and extremist groups (though I have no interest in degrading Sikhism by spending time on Sikh terrorism. I think they exist despite Sikhism not because of it).

Namji{censored}aur ji the way a Sikh understands enemy appears quite different from the way things are happening in suicide bombing approach. If a person targets in just cause an army out to get him, I understand. If a person goes in a village square and blows up and kills scores assuming all killed were his enemies without verifying if they were, I don’t understand. In such cases there is little to say about the dead suicide bomber but I detest the handlers like shown in the videos. What religion or what faction of the religion they are from (Sunni or Shia) matters little. If it is at odds with how Islam thinks or works, who am I to comment? All I see is generations lost during Iran-Iraq war, and there appears no end in sight of such activities in predominantly muslim Arab, middle east and African countries. God showered upon such lands so much resources and riches and it is so sad that it is being wasted away or destroyed.

Israel and Palestinian conflict being perhaps an exception.

And as an oppressed people, all Muslims are obligated to stand up to their oppressor.

Standing up implies go fight the army if need be. That is the Sikhi way. I regret that there have been occasional other tactics where innocents ended up as a result of stupid and disgusting approaches by some. For example Air India bombing and the people are in jails or have died along the way. Just that you cannot approach them, do not willy nilly strap bombs and blow yourself up thinking or believing you have killed the oppressor. Be smart, selective and courageous. Suicide bombing of civilians is manipulation, mis-guidance and cowardice driven.

For Afghanistan as an example. The only reason why they (the handlers) program and send these mostly young men on the missions is that they don’t want to be hit with return fire if were to directly attack, say a convoy of troops. That is cowardice as the adult should be doing the suicide bombings and not a madrassa brain washed kid or better still using other tactics.

Regards.
[/FONT]

 

[namjiwankaur]

Sat Nam _/|\_

Ambarsaria ji

And as an oppressed people, all Muslims are obligated to stand up to their oppressor.
Standing up implies go fight the army if need be. Just that you cannot approach them, do not willy nilly strap bombs and blow yourself up thinking or believing you have killed the oppressor. Be smart, selective and courageous. Suicide bombing of civilians is manipulation, mis-guidance and cowardice driven.

Suicide bombing is never acceptable. Agreed?

I am against bombing of any kind. Whether it is a Sikh bombing an airplane (Air India Flight 182), Islamic terrorism, the IRA or domestic terrorism in the United States...only a completely deranged person or group of persons would consider bombs and suicide bombs acceptable activity.

History of Terrorism in America from About.com
Domestic Terrorism in the US

Terrorism is an ancient tactic. Its been used for hundreds of years. It is always an extreme violation of human rights no matter who does it. It is NEVER acceptable.

Peace
Nam Jiwan ikonkaar

 

[arshdeep88]

sat sri akal nam jiwan kaur ji,
i have just recently joined this page and just came across your articles ,i truly agree with what you say and how you convey and throw light on islam and its teachings ,i fully agree that those who commit suicide and terrorism are no way representating Islam ,but there are some things i want to ask you out of curiosity ,i have few muslim friends .When i discuss Sikhism with them they are really stubborn about it and its not that they are being offensive but its like they end up doing comparisons more rather then finding the true meaning,i sometimes dont like the way such people show narrow mindedness ,sometimes they are on the verge that they call Guru Nanak and other gurus as just some ordinary people and even doubt that the Shabads teachings, at that time i had to stop discussing my faith with them and move to other topics,i dnt know from where did the narrow mindedness in some of the muslilms have came from ( i know every religion have narrowminded people) but they cite reasons from quran that for them no one is messenger of GOD or Saint Or a godly person after prophet mohammad and islam is the only true religion all other are false,i fail to realize the reason behined this so much stubborn attitude,on the other hand i wont boast about my faith but GURUS or SIKHISM never forces anyone to impose his views on the other nor to disrespect any religion and to treat disprespectful of anyone ,how very good Guru Arjan Dev Mahraj mentions in sukhmani sahib not to talk of ill things about persons of SAINTLY qualities is very admiring and humble ,my question is that had this stubborn behaviour diverted them from this path of ISLAM or Islam is the way it is meant to be?


i think there should be icon for folded hands coveying sat sri akal here _/\_

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Sat Nam _/|\_

Ambarsaria ji



Suicide bombing is never acceptable. Agreed?

I am against bombing of any kind. Whether it is a Sikh bombing an airplane (Air India Flight 182), Islamic terrorism, the IRA or domestic terrorism in the United States...only a completely deranged person or group of persons would consider bombs and suicide bombs acceptable activity.

History of Terrorism in America from About.com
Domestic Terrorism in the US

Terrorism is an ancient tactic. Its been used for hundreds of years. It is always an extreme violation of human rights no matter who does it. It is NEVER acceptable.

Peace
Nam Jiwan ikonkaar

Nam Jiwan ji,

Guru Fateh,

I understand from your status that you are wetting your feet in Sikhi and I have no idea whether you are a Sikh now or not, nor do I know if you visit this forum anymore. But, I have one question for you which I expect you to respond as a responsible human being no matter what your religion is or if there is no religion.

Please respond to me about what I have put in bold in your post. Would you be kind enough to supply the evidence and proof of your claim? Humanity deserves this honesty from you.

On another note, I was in Londonderry when one of the bombs planted by the IRA exploded. I was at the check point and it exploded about 100 yards from it.

Hope to hear from you.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh.

 

[Luckysingh]

The problem is that this is where the term 'sikh extremist/terrorist' came from.
And they seem to regularly associate it with Khalistan.

Not that many even have a clear idea of what they really want!
I

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Satnamjiwan wrote:

The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt Him.

Many say a convert to Islam actually reverts to Islam because all of us are born Muslim.

Guru nanak ji writes..Paatlan pataal LAKH akaasan akaas...There are UNCOUNTABLE Heavens and earths and Nether worlds...OORRAK ORRAK BHAAL THAKEH....man is tired out trying to COUNT THEM....

bhagat Kabir Ji writes...IF we are all Born Muslim..why are we born UNCIRcumMCISED...and what about the WOMEN..50% of Mankind ? they cannot be circumcised..so they remain Non-Muslim ??

are we on the same wave...are we referring to the same Creator ??

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The problem is that this is where the term 'sikh extremist/terrorist' came from.
And they seem to regularly associate it with Khalistan.

Not that many even have a clear idea of what they really want!
I

SIKHS have done deeds even at expense of their lives...not once or twice...BUT HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of times...recent ones being Singhs like Satwant singh beant singh Sukha Jinda hawara rajoanna etc etc...who have NEVER DENIED what they did and explained WHY they did what they did....BHAGAT SINGH was Hanged in SECRET as a "terrorist" by the BRITISH.., His dead body was THROWN into the River ravi....BUT hes a NATIONAL HERO....recently AFZAL GURU was also HANGED IN SECRET, his body not returned to his family..for a Crime similar to that done by Bhagat singh.....but AG is called a "terrorist" just as Bahgat singh was...and BOTH are also HEROES to certain groups...its a matter of perception..politics etc etc..

BUT ONE THING SIKHS have NEVER DONE..is gather in Groups and RIOT/Slash and Burn shops, destroy Govt Properties, slash and murder innocent CIVILIANS caught unawares.....as is routinely done by MAJORITY COMMUNITIES almost like clockwork and termed RACIAL RIOTS/ RELIGIOUS RIOTS...GENOCIDE.. !! RACIAL RIOTS have NEVER TAKEN PLACE in SIKH MAJORITY PUNJAB or in otehr palces where Sikhs are a MAJORITY...and Sikhs NEVER become SUICIDE BOMBERS to kill innocent civilians or even MILITARY personnel from the enmey..SIKHS ATTACK UP FRONT on the battlefield...so much so that even Muslim historians under heavy "prejudice" have called them SAGGH (DOGS) but then immediately self corrected and written..NO..Not DOGS but brave Lions... just look at huge numbers of HINDU MANDIRS being TORCHED in MUSLIM MAJORITY BANGLADESH as of Yesterday...look at how the BABRI MASJID was demolished by a HINDU CROWD..how the Gujrat Genocide took place in HINDU MAJORITY areas...NO SUCH massacres/riots/demolition of mosques or mandirs has ever taken place in SIKH MAJORITY areas...NOT even IN 1947...when HUNDREDS of SIKH GURDWARAS in muslim majority area were RAZED to the Ground...no mosques were burnt in any Sikh areas..

KHALISTAN is a POLITICAL MOVEMENT...born out of STATE TERRORISM..kept alive by vested interests...its not wholly SIKH or GURBANI DRIVEN...even though many "Khalistanis".were and are Staunch Sikhs..in fact Akal takhat jathedar Darshan Singh has publicly declared that a SIKH who is NOT a Khalsitani is NOT a SIKH and he is widely RESPECTED in INDIA even TODAY even though the present Akal takhat Jathedar has EXCOMMUNICATED HIM...becasue in present circumstances its NOT "politically correct" to be a Khalistani....just as in 1930 it was not "politically correct" to be PRO BHAGAT SINGH...BUT Now there are even demands in india to have Bhagat Singh on the 5oo INR Currency !! and His Birthday is a HOLIDAY and celebrated by politicians placing wreaths on his Memorial..TIMES CHANGE !!! Who knows..Tomorrow these same politicians may be laying wreaths on Sukhs Jindas Memorials....as they are laying on the 1984 shaheeds memorial in darbar sahib...YES TIMES CHANGE...BUT a SIKH is NEVER a TERRORIST..He may be a GUERILLA FIGHTER..he may be a WARRIOR..but never a cowardly suicide bomber in crowded markets or prayer halls...or aeroplanes and ships..

 

[arshdeep88]

Satnamjiwan wrote:

The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt Him.

Many say a convert to Islam actually reverts to Islam because all of us are born Muslim.

Guru nanak ji writes..Paatlan pataal LAKH akaasan akaas...There are UNCOUNTABLE Heavens and earths and Nether worlds...OORRAK ORRAK BHAAL THAKEH....man is tired out trying to COUNT THEM....

bhagat Kabir Ji writes...IF we are all Born Muslim..why are we born UNCIRcumMCISED...and what about the WOMEN..50% of Mankind ? they cannot be circumcised..so they remain Non-Muslim ??

are we on the same wave...are we referring to the same Creator ??

correct in the same way we can say that SIkhs means a learner and a person who seek the truth so all of the world who adher this and born are basically SIKHS as everyone learns in life and everyone sooner or later go out for the truth ,but i really doubt if some one muslim brother of mine will accept it

they say that WORD Muslim means a person who surrenders his will to the almighty god so anyone who surrenders his will to the god is a MUSLIM,ok fair enough, but if i say or somebody from my faith say SIKHI means a one who seeks for the truth in life and a learner so basically we all are SIKHS ,right there they have problem with that.

the thing is when they apply some logic to you you are expected to adher to it ,but if you apply the same logic back they say no no this is HARAM and then start comparing religions

lastly i have deep respect for all relgions be it MUSLIM,CHRISTIANY,HINDUISM ,etc ,its just some times stubborn attitude doesnt makes a good foundation for good discussions

 

[GSingh1984]

Go read the quran, please however find one that's been re-edited to the chronlogical order it was originally in.

Remember, later verses abrogate earlier ones. So, all the later ones about jihad are Islam.

Dar-Al-Islam. That concept of there being a hosue of peace, but only when it is all muslims. Should tell you wussup.

Love to all my muslim brothers, and sisters though; no hate, but just learn.

-
Afzal guru, what was he fighting for? A kashmir under sharia; please don't compare him to Shaheed-e-azam Baba Bhagat Singh Ji.

That's a crime against humanity.
//
I feel like saying what's true comes off as 'hate speech' but what I'm talking about is the hatred not my way of saying it. Either way, I'll await admins and ask if I should continue or just be quiet.

It's internet anyway, and if I started quoting what's sunna as in what mohammed did, and what every muslim is supposed to follow this entire forum would clear out temporarily from disgust.

Peace,

VJKVJF

 

[spnadmin]

Except veerji Tonight you seem to be on a mission. And that doesn't lend itself to the perception of fairness. It rather makes things seem as if you have locked into a stereotype. Tell me why I am wrong??

 

[GSingh1984]

Fairness for all people, not any ideology.

I'm not really talking about muslims, but of the doctrine behind it.

I did have a mission, to counter the subterfuge going on, that is trying to white-wash Islam and make it out to be some hippy spirtual fun fest.

It's not, and that's not me saying it; it's Mohammed.

--
I just don't talk about muslims, there's over a billion with different personalities, I will say that any devout muslim, a true devout muslim will not be someone as a Sikh can trust due to Taqiyyah and Kitman.

VJKVJF

 

[harcharanjitsinghdhillon]

truth of god are in all religions.. founders of religions are two types, one is who came from very high planes beyond maya.. their duties are not to create religions or subdivision, but to take society back to sach khand our true home. they teach us on how to dismantle our ego or haumai, and how to surrender completely the mind and body.. truth and true home cannot be found by preserving your ego.. they will teach us the real art on how to repeat the lord names.. the second masters are coming from maya, their teachings are very limited, they will create religions and subdivision, and say the truth is only in them. they will always limit the unlimitted..they will teach subjects related to th 3 gunas.. they will mix spirituality with 3 gunas, because they are thinking that they are mind and body[1] and soul[2].. they take themself to be 2..this is dangerous in sikh point of view because the entity will drop into a larger trap of DUALITY.. in sikhism we take ourself to be only one the soul only.. and only the soul can gain admission into sach khand.. in such khand there is no duality, no time past or future, no ego, only the moment exist