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Gurus The Sikh Guru's And Khatri Origin
- Thread starter Randip Singh
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Randip ji
On another thread, Gyani Jarnail Singh ji posted the family tree of the Gurus. Of course I cannot remember which thread. Guessed the Search button at the top of the page might turn it up.
OK Here is the link to the thread with that information.
http://www.sikhism.us/new-to-sikhism/22250-what-name-grandfather-guru-nanak-dev.html
Also at this link NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Punjabi Khatri
Some interesting information about Khatri, their clan divisions and history.
Common Family Names
Some Khatri family names include Anand, Awal, Badhwar, Bagga, Bakshi, Bedi, Bhalla, Bhasin, Bhandari, Bindra, Chadha, Chandok, Chona, Chopra, Choudhary, Dhawan, Duggal, Dhupar, Dumra, Gadhiok, Gujral, Handa, Jerath, Jairath, Jaggi, Kakkar, Kapoor(Kapur), Khanna, Kochhar, Kohli, Koshal, Lal, Lala, Lamba, Loomba, Madhok, Mahendru, Maini, Malhotra, Malik, Mankhand, Manraj, Mehrotra, Mehta, Monga, Nair(Nayyar),Nayer, Nijhawan, Oberoi, Ohri, Parwanda, Puri, Rai, Sabharwal, Sami, Sahni, Sarin, Sehgal(Sahgal), Sethi, Sial(Syal), Sibal, Sikka, Singh (my note: this is not helpful is it?), Sodhi, Soni, Suri, Talwar, Tandan(Tandon), Thapar, Trehan, Uppal, Vadehra, Vij, Vinaik, Vohra, Wadhawan, Wahi (Wahie) and Walia. Introduction Dumra is a Punjabi Khatri family name. ... Kapoor or Kapur is a famous Khatri Hindu clan. ...
The Arora (Ahuja, Aneja, Khurana,Chawla, Juneja etc.), Sood and Bhatia communities of the Punjab, while not Khatri, share a similar cultural and mercantile background as the Khatris. Aroras (or Aror-vanshis) are a mercantile community of the Punjab and Sind. ... Bhatia is a surname mostly existing in North and West India. ... (my note: this paragraph is in disupte as other sources contradict it.)
Some of these clans are also sometimes cross-listed as Rajput, especially Sodhi, Sial, Kashyap, Kakkar (Khakkar/Ghakkar), Rai, and Walia. It is not entirely clear in the case of many clans and surnames exactly which subdivision of Kshatriya they belong to. For much of Indian history, Rajput and Kshatriya have been synonymous, and later, Rajput came to denote only those Kshatriyas belonging to certain clans descended from rulers, therefore Rajputra (or sons of kings).
On another thread, Gyani Jarnail Singh ji posted the family tree of the Gurus. Of course I cannot remember which thread. Guessed the Search button at the top of the page might turn it up.
OK Here is the link to the thread with that information.
http://www.sikhism.us/new-to-sikhism/22250-what-name-grandfather-guru-nanak-dev.html
Also at this link NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Punjabi Khatri
Some interesting information about Khatri, their clan divisions and history.
Common Family Names
Some Khatri family names include Anand, Awal, Badhwar, Bagga, Bakshi, Bedi, Bhalla, Bhasin, Bhandari, Bindra, Chadha, Chandok, Chona, Chopra, Choudhary, Dhawan, Duggal, Dhupar, Dumra, Gadhiok, Gujral, Handa, Jerath, Jairath, Jaggi, Kakkar, Kapoor(Kapur), Khanna, Kochhar, Kohli, Koshal, Lal, Lala, Lamba, Loomba, Madhok, Mahendru, Maini, Malhotra, Malik, Mankhand, Manraj, Mehrotra, Mehta, Monga, Nair(Nayyar),Nayer, Nijhawan, Oberoi, Ohri, Parwanda, Puri, Rai, Sabharwal, Sami, Sahni, Sarin, Sehgal(Sahgal), Sethi, Sial(Syal), Sibal, Sikka, Singh (my note: this is not helpful is it?
), Sodhi, Soni, Suri, Talwar, Tandan(Tandon), Thapar, Trehan, Uppal, Vadehra, Vij, Vinaik, Vohra, Wadhawan, Wahi (Wahie) and Walia. Introduction Dumra is a Punjabi Khatri family name. ... Kapoor or Kapur is a famous Khatri Hindu clan. ...The Arora (Ahuja, Aneja, Khurana,Chawla, Juneja etc.), Sood and Bhatia communities of the Punjab, while not Khatri, share a similar cultural and mercantile background as the Khatris. Aroras (or Aror-vanshis) are a mercantile community of the Punjab and Sind. ... Bhatia is a surname mostly existing in North and West India. ... (my note: this paragraph is in disupte as other sources contradict it.)
Some of these clans are also sometimes cross-listed as Rajput, especially Sodhi, Sial, Kashyap, Kakkar (Khakkar/Ghakkar), Rai, and Walia. It is not entirely clear in the case of many clans and surnames exactly which subdivision of Kshatriya they belong to. For much of Indian history, Rajput and Kshatriya have been synonymous, and later, Rajput came to denote only those Kshatriyas belonging to certain clans descended from rulers, therefore Rajputra (or sons of kings).
- Jun 1, 2008
- 183
- 13
Sat sri akal.
He alone is a true kshatriya/khatri,who is valorous in his deeds and who dedicates his body to loving kindness---slok,1411:yes:
i would like to answer one of the question related to the topic--why didnt all khatris converted to sikhism?
the answer is as complex as the question itself.
all the khatris were considered to be sikhs until and unless sikhism came to be known as a different world religion even in the first population census of punjab done by britishers the khatris were counted amongst sikhs . but in the second more than 80 lakh khatris denied that they were sikhs nd they were considered hindus from that time. some hold it to be an act of clever bhramins:inca:
i dont hav details if someone has i would love to know more.
btw khatris r committed sikhs they dont cut their hairs .i became a "kesadhari" under the influence of my khatri friends other wise i was a "yankee jatt"
:happy:
He alone is a true kshatriya/khatri,who is valorous in his deeds and who dedicates his body to loving kindness---slok,1411:yes:
i would like to answer one of the question related to the topic--why didnt all khatris converted to sikhism?
the answer is as complex as the question itself.
all the khatris were considered to be sikhs until and unless sikhism came to be known as a different world religion even in the first population census of punjab done by britishers the khatris were counted amongst sikhs . but in the second more than 80 lakh khatris denied that they were sikhs nd they were considered hindus from that time. some hold it to be an act of clever bhramins:inca:
i dont hav details if someone has i would love to know more.
btw khatris r committed sikhs they dont cut their hairs .i became a "kesadhari" under the influence of my khatri friends other wise i was a "yankee jatt"
:happy:
Randip ji
On another thread, Gyani Jarnail Singh ji posted the family tree of the Gurus. Of course I cannot remember which thread. Guessed the Search button at the top of the page might turn it up.
OK Here is the link to the thread with that information.
http://www.sikhism.us/new-to-sikhism/22250-what-name-grandfather-guru-nanak-dev.html
Also at this link NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Punjabi Khatri
Some interesting information about Khatri, their clan divisions and history.
Common Family Names
Some Khatri family names include Anand, Awal, Badhwar, Bagga, Bakshi, Bedi, Bhalla, Bhasin, Bhandari, Bindra, Chadha, Chandok, Chona, Chopra, Choudhary, Dhawan, Duggal, Dhupar, Dumra, Gadhiok, Gujral, Handa, Jerath, Jairath, Jaggi, Kakkar, Kapoor(Kapur), Khanna, Kochhar, Kohli, Koshal, Lal, Lala, Lamba, Loomba, Madhok, Mahendru, Maini, Malhotra, Malik, Mankhand, Manraj, Mehrotra, Mehta, Monga, Nair(Nayyar),Nayer, Nijhawan, Oberoi, Ohri, Parwanda, Puri, Rai, Sabharwal, Sami, Sahni, Sarin, Sehgal(Sahgal), Sethi, Sial(Syal), Sibal, Sikka, Singh (my note: this is not helpful is it?
The Arora (Ahuja, Aneja, Khurana,Chawla, Juneja etc.), Sood and Bhatia communities of the Punjab, while not Khatri, share a similar cultural and mercantile background as the Khatris. Aroras (or Aror-vanshis) are a mercantile community of the Punjab and Sind. ... Bhatia is a surname mostly existing in North and West India. ... (my note: this paragraph is in disupte as other sources contradict it.)
Some of these clans are also sometimes cross-listed as Rajput, especially Sodhi, Sial, Kashyap, Kakkar (Khakkar/Ghakkar), Rai, and Walia. It is not entirely clear in the case of many clans and surnames exactly which subdivision of Kshatriya they belong to. For much of Indian history, Rajput and Kshatriya have been synonymous, and later, Rajput came to denote only those Kshatriyas belonging to certain clans descended from rulers, therefore Rajputra (or sons of kings).
Very useful.
Sat sri akal.
He alone is a true kshatriya/khatri,who is valorous in his deeds and who dedicates his body to loving kindness---slok,1411:yes:
i would like to answer one of the question related to the topic--why didnt all khatris converted to sikhism?
the answer is as complex as the question itself.
all the khatris were considered to be sikhs until and unless sikhism came to be known as a different world religion even in the first population census of punjab done by britishers the khatris were counted amongst sikhs . but in the second more than 80 lakh khatris denied that they were sikhs nd they were considered hindus from that time. some hold it to be an act of clever bhramins:inca:
i dont hav details if someone has i would love to know more.
btw khatris r committed sikhs they dont cut their hairs .i became a "kesadhari" under the influence of my khatri friends other wise i was a "yankee jatt"
:happy:
I read a recent book as to why Khatri's did not become Sikh because of what the 10th Master did, i.e. Khandhay dha Pahul.
They would sit and eat with a low caste (as an act of charity), but share a drink with a low caste was a step too far. Therefore the composition of Sikhism from largely Khatro based, changed after the demise of the 10th master to lower Vaish and Shudra.
I think apart from Arya samaji's Khatri's never considered sikhism as separate religion
They just beleived that khalsa is a branch martial branch of hinduism .that's why some took Amrit while others used to make their elder sons as sardars.
Hinduism itself is such a complex subject because of thousands of different practices
that you can't even describe who is hindu and who is not
Archived_member7
SPNer
- Mar 26, 2006
- 458
- 96
Hinduism may sound complex...and i also agree it is ...hinduism is a development of the last 200 years..due to british influence...
I belive in the Hindutva defination which is not hinduism ..the best defined by the great freedome fighter Shri Vinayak Damodar Savarkar
Asindhu Sindhu Paryanta yashya Bharat Bhoomika,
Pitribhu Punya Bhuschaiva SA vai Hindu Riti Smritah.
There is a vast land between river Sindhu and Hind Mahasagar called Bharat and those who accept that this is their fatherland and a holy land, land of pilgrimage are all Hindu
Now ..here this defination clearly states what is 'hindu' exactly...it is crystal clear the word hindu has nothing to do with religion..it is a geographical identity..which i feel is fine ... another interesting article written by Savarkarji i came across :
Hindutva is different from Hinduism | Vinayak Damodar Savarkar
here is another interesting piece of info i came across on www.savarkar.org:
Is it true that Savarkar wrote a history of the Sikhs?
Yes, Savarkar did write a history of the Sikhs. The facts of the matter are as follows:
While in England, Savarkar learnt the Gurumukhi script and read Sikh scriptures like the Adi Granth, the Dasam Granth and other works like Panth Prakash, Suraj Prakash and Bhai Bala’s Janamsakhi. He also read histories of the Sikhs, written by British authors, like J.D.Cunningham. Savarkar used to send patriotic pamphlets to the camps of Sikh soldiers. Savarkar may have studied Sikhism and Sikh history to communicate effectively with Sikh soldiers. By the end of the year 1909, London became too hot for Savarkar. Pandit Shyamji Krishnavarma had to sell off India House. Even Bipin Chandra Pal could not keep Savarkar as his paying guest due to angry English mobs. Savarkar had to put up in London slums. There too, British detectives hounded him. Due to deprivation and extreme cold, Savarkar developed a serious lung infection. Dr. Muthu, the Vice President of Pandit Shyamji Krishna Varma’s Indian Home Rule League took Savarkar to his nursing home in Wales. Fortunately, Savarkar recovered in those pre-antibiotic days. He began writing the history of the Sikhs in Marathi, when Dr. Muthu permitted him to work for a couple of hours a day. This book was of about two hundred pages and traced the Sikh history, from the birth of Guru Nanak to the founding of an empire by Maharajah Ranjit Singh. At the behest of his comrades in arms, Savarkar went to Paris in the latter half of January 1910. There, he revised the manuscript of his Sikh history, made its three copies and dedicated the book to his son, Prabhakar who had died in 1909 at the age of four. All the three copies were lost and Savarkar’s history of the Sikhs, the first in Marathi thus remained unpublished.
I belive in the Hindutva defination which is not hinduism ..the best defined by the great freedome fighter Shri Vinayak Damodar Savarkar
Asindhu Sindhu Paryanta yashya Bharat Bhoomika,
Pitribhu Punya Bhuschaiva SA vai Hindu Riti Smritah.
There is a vast land between river Sindhu and Hind Mahasagar called Bharat and those who accept that this is their fatherland and a holy land, land of pilgrimage are all Hindu
Now ..here this defination clearly states what is 'hindu' exactly...it is crystal clear the word hindu has nothing to do with religion..it is a geographical identity..which i feel is fine ... another interesting article written by Savarkarji i came across :
Hindutva is different from Hinduism | Vinayak Damodar Savarkar
here is another interesting piece of info i came across on www.savarkar.org:
Is it true that Savarkar wrote a history of the Sikhs?
Yes, Savarkar did write a history of the Sikhs. The facts of the matter are as follows:
While in England, Savarkar learnt the Gurumukhi script and read Sikh scriptures like the Adi Granth, the Dasam Granth and other works like Panth Prakash, Suraj Prakash and Bhai Bala’s Janamsakhi. He also read histories of the Sikhs, written by British authors, like J.D.Cunningham. Savarkar used to send patriotic pamphlets to the camps of Sikh soldiers. Savarkar may have studied Sikhism and Sikh history to communicate effectively with Sikh soldiers. By the end of the year 1909, London became too hot for Savarkar. Pandit Shyamji Krishnavarma had to sell off India House. Even Bipin Chandra Pal could not keep Savarkar as his paying guest due to angry English mobs. Savarkar had to put up in London slums. There too, British detectives hounded him. Due to deprivation and extreme cold, Savarkar developed a serious lung infection. Dr. Muthu, the Vice President of Pandit Shyamji Krishna Varma’s Indian Home Rule League took Savarkar to his nursing home in Wales. Fortunately, Savarkar recovered in those pre-antibiotic days. He began writing the history of the Sikhs in Marathi, when Dr. Muthu permitted him to work for a couple of hours a day. This book was of about two hundred pages and traced the Sikh history, from the birth of Guru Nanak to the founding of an empire by Maharajah Ranjit Singh. At the behest of his comrades in arms, Savarkar went to Paris in the latter half of January 1910. There, he revised the manuscript of his Sikh history, made its three copies and dedicated the book to his son, Prabhakar who had died in 1909 at the age of four. All the three copies were lost and Savarkar’s history of the Sikhs, the first in Marathi thus remained unpublished.
Archived_member7
SPNer
- Mar 26, 2006
- 458
- 96
I admire Savarkarji from my heart ..besides being a great freedom fighter with a good foresight...He took keen interest in Sikhi...if i remember ..i think i have read that when Ambedkarji was looking for a Panth to convert to ...Savarkarji suggested him and his followers to convert to Sikhi....
Archived_member7
SPNer
- Mar 26, 2006
- 458
- 96
I apologise to the Sangat for deviating from the main topic of this discussion..but i just felt to share the info...
RajKhalsa ji
Actually your comments are not that much of a deviation. In fact there is a connection which can be made. Just a little more thinking about it and it will become crystal clear why your post above is related to the idea of Khatri origins. Someone just has to do it.
The funny thing is this, Guru Ji Sahibaan didn't care about their origin or caste ever but they were never left alone in this context by others any way. One gentleman was questioning on this site" why Gurus didn't set example by marrying in other caste ". I thought about it. Here it is the possible rason. None of the Guru went out there in search of brides, most of the time, their parents and relatives around them pursued to accept proposals. People from other castes never dared to bring proposal due to fear of the society, if any one would dare to bring any, there is no doubt in my mind that Gurus would have accepted it. Reason is simple, having spiritual union with the Lord,this fake caste glory becomes totally immaterial. Guru set up other many examples to eliminate this evil, have all followers followed those? Sadly answer is "NO"
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