Tragic Earthquake In Japan. Is It Fate? Is It Karma? Is It Living With "the Truth/God That Is Everyw

[jhelmick]

We are nothing against the forces of Nature. With just one fell swoop, humanity can be gone. No matter how much we try to "safeguard" ourselves from catastrophes, there's always that one quake, tsunami, volcano, or cyclone that will destroy us and everything we know.

I don't believe this has anything to do with karma, but simply the natural progression of things. Earth is alive, and sometimes she is violent and destroys. Who are we to think we could even begin to tame or outwit her?

 

[Seeker9]

Spiritually or Soul (soul for me is understanding of being) wise we,
We leave our imprints in part on our children
We leave imprints on relatives and neighbors “souls” and the related changes therein
We leave our impacts on other souls through our interactions be those positive or negative
The chances of an “identical soul” of “you”, “me”, “others” in like form are “nil”
But then again why should it be a worry as we are all one and the oneness was there before our birth and will be there

Interesting thread and comments

Dear Ambarsaria Ji

This is a fairly unique viewpoint I think and one that merits further discussion

What do you think happens to the soul at death? i.e does it leave imprints and disappear? does it merge with an original source e.g you could say as in a sort of life energy merging with a bigger mass of energy?

What would you say is the purpose of meditation?

Thanks in advance

R

 

[findingmyway]

Why did "Onkar" not create a more perfect universe, devoid of all these earth-quacks and other such disasters?
The answer that "we cannot understand His leela" does not seem much convincing.
Can any one give a simple answer, without play of words, that a common person can understand.

Without the "bad" there can be no "good". Volcanic eruptions are essential to create several substances we use for survival on earth. Human beings are very bad for the planet with the way we use its resources and takeover killing a lot of things in our way. When there is complete peace humans become restless and nasty towards each other out of boredom. How do you describe perfect? How do you judge good and bad? Looking only from a human telescope will give you a very skewed and small field of view.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Without the "bad" there can be no "good". Volcanic eruptions are essential to create several substances we use for survival on earth. Human beings are very bad for the planet with the way we use its resources and takeover killing a lot of things in our way. When there is complete peace humans become restless and nasty towards each other out of boredom. How do you describe perfect? How do you judge good and bad? Looking only from a human telescope will give you a very skewed and small field of view.

Exactly the kind of response I was expecting.
So God plans these volcanic eruptions from time to time,killing millions of human-beings, so we could use the minerals that come out with the lava,to better the living conditions of man-kind.
I must admit that this truly is a novel scheme and the best arrangement that only the Almighty could come-up, with to create a perfect world for us.
But,on the other hand, as you have written, Human-beings are very bad for this planet,so if thousands perish in one stroke, it is good riddance.
This post has really helped me broaden my skewed and small field of view.
Please keep-up the good work. lolswordfight:whatzpointsing::::badmood:

 

[Ambarsaria]

Exactly the kind of response I was expecting.
So God plans these volcanic eruptions from time to time,killing millions of human-beings, so we could use the minerals that come out with the lava,to better the living conditions of man-kind.
I must admit that this truly is a novel scheme and the best arrangement that only the Almighty could come-up, with to create a perfect world for us.
But,on the other hand, as you have written, Human-beings are very bad for this planet,so if thousands perish in one stroke, it is good riddance.
This post has really helped me broaden my skewed and small field of view.
Please keep-up the good work. lolswordfight:whatzpointsing::::badmood:

jasbirkaleka ji, you set up a trap and some one walked right in. That line about "God creating bad to teach value of Good" is a much abused concept used by many religions and preachers to rope in the meek, keep them on the defensive and rule them.

Hinduism has this as foremost at the core, with Brahmins coming in to fleece/control/manipulate and provide so called avoidance of possible bad or abundance of good fortune as intermediaries to God of your choosing.

However "you should not throw baby out with the bath water". Consider that if the planners and scientists whether believing in God, Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Atheism or nothing at all had considered the following in inhabiting and developing that area,

• No inhabitation or structure withing first 3 miles of the shore line
• Nuclear stations to be located at least 3 miles inside of the shoreline
  • It would have meant more development expenses
  • At lakes, rivers and oceans are locations of choice for ready supply of cooling water but one has to recognize all that is reasonably predictable and perhaps spend more
• Unfortunately hindsight is 20/20
• Humans and other life always have to use wisdom (that continuously improves and evolves) and live in consonance of the one truth that surrounds us (Sikhism) as one we are part of,

ੴ ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ArQ:- Akwl purK ie`k hY, ijs dw nwm 'hoNd vwlw' hY jo isRStI dw rcnhwr hY, jo sB ivc ivAwpk hY, BY qoN rihq hY, vYr-rihq hY, ijs dw srUp kwl qoN pry hY, (Bwv, ijs dw srIr nws-rihq hY), jo jUnW ivc nhIN AwauNdw, ijs dw pRkwS Awpxy Awp qoN hoieAw hY Aqy jo siqgurU dI ikrpw nwl imldw hY[

God (the understanding of truth) everywhere is one and is known as the one truth, is the creator of all, present everywhere, without fear, without animosity, is timeless, is not guided by life cycles, is a self creation and is realized through its own (Guru/God) blessing.

An excerpt from the above,

• ਨਿਰਭਉ
  
  • Truth prevails without fear
    
    • i.e. it may appear ruthless, unfair to the subjects
    • Example: Musings,
      
      • How could a loving God do this?
      • How could a God who can create perfect world allow this to happen
        • say Perfect world as defined by Jasbirkaleka ji
          • God need to listen uplol
            
• ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ
  • Truth prevails without animosity
    • Why does'nt God/the one creator get rid of all the bad people everywhere instead of these or other innocent people
    • The truth is "in consonance" and its violation is fraught with issues near time or far time
      

The Solution:

• The one creator has given us wherewithals to live in consonance with everything around, above-below, near-far and chaging in time.
  • We need to understand and act accordingly.
• What surrounds us is limitless so there will be errors in understanding with possible consequences and turmoil.
  
  • These are our errors and not assignable to a God, creator or the understanding of the same thereof
    • This should only help further understand and make fewer errors for the future.
  • Examples of Listening and Learning:
    • Earthquake, Huricane proof or mitigated designs
      • Without these improvements such tragedies would be megafold.
  • Examples of Future issues and hot spots:
    • California earthquake forecast
    • Low lying areas near oceans and the inhabitation of the same
    • Building houses in the valleys where forests have been destroyed through deforestation
    • Building vast water dams with population downstream
      • Bhakhra dam in Punjab, the three Gorges project in China, etc.

None of the above takes away from compassion for all and sharing/supporting others during hardships. Any one can or many can make errors of judgment but they are no less our brothers or sisters because of it and they are no less loved by God for it.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

This is not the meaning that I would myself take from what findinmyway posted.

So God plans these volcanic eruptions from time to time,killing millions of human-beings, so we could use the minerals that come out with the lava,to better the living conditions of man-kind.

She is not casting the almighty to be the prime mischief maker who has nothing better to do than scheme and dream up violent disruptions in the lives of millions of beings in order to rejuvenate the status of minerals on planet earth.

We need to try again. The question of "free will" in relation to Kartar Purakh(u) cannot be avoided in this discussion.

 

[findingmyway]

Exactly the kind of response I was expecting.
So God plans these volcanic eruptions from time to time,killing millions of human-beings, so we could use the minerals that come out with the lava,to better the living conditions of man-kind.
I must admit that this truly is a novel scheme and the best arrangement that only the Almighty could come-up, with to create a perfect world for us.
But,on the other hand, as you have written, Human-beings are very bad for this planet,so if thousands perish in one stroke, it is good riddance.
This post has really helped me broaden my skewed and small field of view.

I did not say bad was created to teach about good. I said without bad we do not know how to define good. Huge difference!! I also find the notion that the Almighty created this world to be perfect for us to be hilarious and extremely egotistical!! Perfect example of what I was referring to! Finally, God as per Sikhi is not a person who sits up there and watches the drama unfold! I think there is some confusion with Abrahamic faiths here.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

I did not say bad was created to teach about good. I said without bad we do not know how to define good. Huge difference!! I also find the notion that the Almighty created this world to be perfect for us to be hilarious and extremely egotistical!! Perfect example of what I was referring to! Finally, God as per Sikhi is not a person who sits up there and watches the drama unfold! I think there is some confusion with Abrahamic faiths here.

Please could some-one enlighten me.

Is it impossible for us to follow the principles and values, as propagated to us by our great Sikh Gurus, without a firm belief in God?

Is it possible for an Atheist be a good Sikh?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Please could some-one enlighten me.

Is it impossible for us to follow the principles and values, as propagated to us by our great Sikh Gurus, without a firm belief in God?

Is it possible for an Atheist be a good Sikh?

jasbirkaleka ji, I believe you already are a good Sikh compared to many others for me at the interaction and understanding level. As you can see lot of the mis-beliefs and challenge such intelligently in terms of Sikhism. This has to come from knowledge, study and experience.

In terms of God, as long as you have the understanding of oneness of the universe and can believe in the expositions in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and don't believe in contradicting Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, you are a good Sikh for me. Recognizing that understanding and study comes from questioning other people's understandings while sharing your own with an end objective of having better understanding, and not a win-lose strategy.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji dictates that one is not going to define in detail God or "oneness truth" but even then one has to live in consonance recognizing presence of all such internally and externally.

In terms of baptization and Panthic Life, I believe the world is pretty straightforward and there is not much confusion.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

Please could some-one enlighten me.

Is it impossible for us to follow the principles and values, as propagated to us by our great Sikh Gurus, without a firm belief in God?

Is it possible for an Atheist be a good Sikh?

Until further notice:

Sikh Reht Maryada

SIKH CODE OF CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS

Section One

CHAPTER 1
The Definition of Sikh :​

Article I
Any human being who faithfully believes in

i. One Immortal Being,
ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib,
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh
​

A problem arises from the following chain of arguments. First one asserts that "One Immortal Being" is timeless and formless, and therefore has no material reality. From that first premise one continues that [God] or [One Immortal Being] per SRM, lacks material reality and therefore does not exist." The conclusion is then drawn: Therefore Sikhs can be atheists, or some similar conclusion. The problem with the conclusion lies in the fallacy of argument by abduction, which occurs twice in the above syllogism. So it is really important to define "One Immortal Being" in the context of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and its teachings before asking whether atheists can be Sikhs, or Sikhs can be atheists.

 

[findingmyway]

Please could some-one enlighten me.

Is it impossible for us to follow the principles and values, as propagated to us by our great Sikh Gurus, without a firm belief in God?

Is it possible for an Atheist be a good Sikh?

Atheism and Sikhism are worlds apart. Sikhism revolves around the realisation of God. Just because our concept of God is not the same as other faiths does not make it any less a concept of God. Just because we do not believe in a personal God, what we believe is no less God! Some people will argue that we shouldn't use the word God as it is a word from another language with a whole heap of different connotations but it doesn't matter what terminology you use, the ideas don't change. The Guru's took common phrases and concepts and completely turned them on their head by giving them new meaning. Even if you look at words we use in everyday language, the meaning can drastically change over time but the original ideas behind those words remain valid.

In summary; atheists refuse to believe in God whereas Sikhsim is all about belief in God albeit in a vastly different way to other faiths. No room for confusion! :whatzpointkudi::whatzpointsing:

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Atheism and Sikhism are worlds apart. Sikhism revolves around the realisation of God. Just because our concept of God is not the same as other faiths does not make it any less a concept of God. Just because we do not believe in a personal God, what we believe is no less God! Some people will argue that we shouldn't use the word God as it is a word from another language with a whole heap of different connotations but it doesn't matter what terminology you use, the ideas don't change. The Guru's took common phrases and concepts and completely turned them on their head by giving them new meaning. Even if you look at words we use in everyday language, the meaning can drastically change over time but the original ideas behind those words remain valid.

In summary; atheists refuse to believe in God whereas Sikhsim is all about belief in God albeit in a vastly different way to other faiths. No room for confusion! :whatzpointkudi::whatzpointsing:

rangesingh: I am but a lay man as far as religious studies and theology is concerned.

But, at the risk of sounding egoistic, I believe I am a better Sikh than most of the Sikhs I see around me,who have almost turned into idol-worshipers and are steaped in superstitions.

I try to follow, to the best of my ability, the essential teachings of Guru Nanak Dev ji,such as__

Truthfulliving,contentment,compassion,righteousness,charity,tolerance, restrain, forgiveness.humility,love,krit and not the least, gyan.

I must admit I have yet to learn much more,but isn"t it what Sikhi is all about, a continuance process of learning.

I know there are lots of short-comings in me and have a long way to go.

But the point I want to stress is that my not believing in a Super-Being has never hampered my humble attempts in being a true Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji.:singhsippingcoffee:
Bhul Chuk Muaf

 

[findingmyway]

I don't believe in a super BEING either but I do believe in a GREATER FORCE!

 

[Seeker9]

I have some deep thoughts that I may not articulate very well so bear with me please

At the sub-atomic level the Universe is energy...anything we can see is just a different construct of energy

If Onkar is the Universe and you have Sargun and Nirgun etc then Onkar is energy and is manifest in everything we can see about us

Souls could even be described as bits of that energy that have broken off an "Original source" and the purpose of life is to merge that energy back again

We know there are natural processes that happen just as a result of how different bits of this energy interact with other bits. For example, a volcano blows because that's what volcanos have been doing since they first existed and long before man appeared on the scene

Natural Geological processes govern earthquakes. There is no pre-meditated plan along the lines of "today I'm going to initiate a 6.9 Richter level earthquake in Japan to kill a lot of people"...it just happens

The question of why God allows suffering would then not apply as it is just a consequence of our existence on this planet that we are all subject to how this planet works and what it does.....

Not sure if that made any sense....ikonkaar

 

[Ambarsaria]

Seeker9 ji it makes all sense.

Only thing one needs to add is as Randip Singh ji said and I believe I may have too,

• As part of God's or creator's gift of life is an embodiment to learn and use as much of our faculties to understand how to live amicably with what is above/below and all around.
• The greater our learning of the creation and how we fit wherever we are, the lesser is likelihood being in conflict, misery or misfortune
  • But again what is around being infinite, we will never fully understand and free of all unknowns
  • Also if nature could translate its actions and attributes into plain English I am sure it will give us an earfulmundahug

Sat Sri Akal.