URGENT PLZZ HELP: KAAM LUST BODY MASSAGE SPA ISSUE

[Harry Haller]

Well you’ll see I have not edited my post. Blatant accusations.

no I did,

PG as in PG-13. It’s slang for parental guidance needed under 13. You know as in the movie ratings. But tea sounds delicious. Please and thank you.

of course, maybe a samosa too?

As for the younger readers, if they have access to the internet most likely they have seen and read worse. So let’s get off this high horse.

that is not a decision for either you or your high horse, just be grateful you did not use the worst word, it starts with m and finishes with e

Apparently you cannot read cause I’m pretty sure I wrote I do not condone rape. Nor did I preach it. But to have sex when you are two consenting adults. I see no problem.

Oh I can read, apparently you cannot remember what you write!

Pay for it. Do you take care of your wife? Go to work make money? Take her out? Shower her with flowers and gifts? Buy her things? Make sure there is food on the table. Ok so you just paid for sex. Everyone pays. To say you don’t, you already lied to yourself.

Due to medical issues my wife does not have sex, so as a consequence this argument does not apply to me.

Oh not to mention this tradition of arranged marriage where you two meet and then decide if you wan to marry off a couple interactions. Then consumate the marriage on the night of the wedding. Oh I completely forgot the tradition of dowery most Sikhs still pay during the marriage process. This is more of a rape to me then loving someone of you own free will.

I absolutely agree with you, its the first sensible thing you have written, my marriage was not arranged, she was a nurse, I was single, we fell in lust. The only trouble with falling in lust is that it is not sustainable, my sex drive is ridiculously high, and the more sex you have, the more sex you want, and its all never enough! I would actually warn others not to base a relationship on sex, it only ends in tears, sex just is not enough to sustain a relationship. And if both parties are only interested in sex, there is no foundation.

I did mention using a condom. The would is a dangerous place. Oh hey and definitely inspect the area in which you are about to place your family jewels.

What about oral sex? what about Herpes? What happens if you get Herpes before you marry? What happens if you meet the most innocent delightful woman who can entrance you without opening her legs, and then you have to tell her about the Herpes!

I think I’m pretty responsible. I work. I take care of my family. I pay bills and taxes. I go to gurdwaras, not often but I do. Most of the women I been with are the same.

Ah, I take it that this is a path you are still following, what are you looking for? redemption? understanding? a way to take away the guilt? And please do not deny the negative feelings, the hours spent in the bath monitoring your genitals, the guilt, because I have cheated on every woman I have ever been with, other than my wife. Why? I wanted to cheat on my wife, especially as the years went by, but I just couldn't, that was our thing, how could I bring a stranger into our thing? You think your happy, you think you have some perfect status quo, your kidding yourself, one day the ground beneath you will just vanish, and you will have nothing, except for your beloved sex.

Lol, hey even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Well you have a very small sample size if you asked three women. Oh I’m pretty sure f you asked married women who living behind this facade of how they are supposed to be they will give you the same answer. Approach a random women you don’t hold in such high regard I’m a random place. One who isn’t afraid to talk or afraid of how and what light you see them in. Oh yes remember to have the right data you must ask all women not just the ones that go to your gurdwaras. Otherwise you sample is convoluted and inconclusive.

I do not go to Gurdwaras, the butcher is a swinger, and I count pimps, drug dealers and prostitutes amongst my customers, please let us not get into a competition as to who has the sleaziest company....

I don’t know what number 129 feels like but I know what number 57 feels like. But I don’t understand your logic. Why do you think that cause you are number 129 your rejected. I have been rejected and done some rejection. Eventually you’ll meet that one person who everything will click with.

I on the other hand do know what number 129 feels like, I know what a lot of things feel like, by the time you'll meet that one person, you may be surprised at the damage you have done to yourself, leaving you unable to love with an open free heart.

 

[Ishna]

I would actually warn others not to base a relationship on sex, it only ends in tears, sex just is not enough to sustain a relationship. And if both parties are only interested in sex, there is no foundation.

I second this. A real relationship must have a foundation of friendship and mutual respect.

 

[thegurwinder]

Sounds like you just had a shitty life. That sucks bro, my heart goes out to you. Did you get herpes? Man that blows, always use a condom. You can get head with condom on. They have those flavored condoms.

I have no guilt while washing myself in the mornings or any other time of day for that matter. Projection is a hell of a thing. I am not ashamed. Nor am I addicted to sex, I love with an open heart. Im just smart enough to know who to open it too. I also have never cheated. If I have committed to a relationship then, well for a lack of a better way to explain this concept, I've committed. No and, if's or but's about it. Self control is something of a character trait I posses, and you and others can posses it too. Here's the secret it's called will power. If you don't know, now you know.

Just cause I don't go to Gurdwara's doesn't mean you should jump the gun and assume I hang out with hookers. I am not competing, my friends and family are well to do, smart, funny, caring and loving individuals who I would do anything for and vice versa. By the way that paragraph where you quoted me, if you read it was saying increase your sample size. Also get some better company and stop trying to measure yourself. I personally don't care who you associate yourself with. People are people. Circumstances and decisions force people into unsavory situations.

And your right I have damaged myself but sometimes you have to break something down before you can make something better. No better teacher out their than failure. Oh and 129 good job! :slow clap: I don't know your situation, but you might have an addiction which I hope you have found some help for.

As for your wife, she probably is a wonderful person, suck to hear that happened to her. I hope nothing but the best for her and you.

P.S. I can remember what I wrote, quite simply because I can go back and read it. DUH! You will see that you wrote "force yourself".

P.P.S. I don't know what word you mean the one that starts with a "m" and ends with and "e"

P.P.P.S. A samosa would be great, actually make that two. Im a fat kid at heart. That why I stay on this horse. It's easier to travel!

P.P.P.P.S I just came here to sell some t-shirts! ahahhahaha TIME TO GO HAVE SENSELESS SEX

KIDS ALWAYS USE A CONDOM, unless of course y'all been tested together. But still use them!

 

[thegurwinder]

This won't solve the OP's problem. It will just make him even more of a slave to Lust. It will compound his problems and only bring him more misery and anguish.

And if you're really, totally, brutally honest with yourself, then you will realize that the same is true for you.

I urge you to spend some time studying Gurbani. The need is more desperate for you than the OP.

[AoG]

You amuse me.

 

[Harry Haller]

I will run with this, as it is relevant to the thread subject.

Sounds like you just had a shitty life.

what, just because my wife is off sex?

That sucks bro, my heart goes out to you. Did you get herpes?

strangely enough, I managed to get through quite unscathed, but you might.

I have no guilt while washing myself in the mornings or any other time of day for that matter. Projection is a hell of a thing. I am not ashamed. Nor am I addicted to sex, I love with an open heart. Im just smart enough to know who to open it too. I also have never cheated. If I have committed to a relationship then, well for a lack of a better way to explain this concept, I've committed. No and, if's or but's about it. Self control is something of a character trait I posses, and you and others can posses it too. Here's the secret it's called will power. If you don't know, now you know.

so just so I can get this right in my head, for all your posturing, and your advice, you are actually faithful to your wife?

Just cause I don't go to Gurdwara's doesn't mean you should jump the gun and assume I hang out with hookers. I am not competing, my friends and family are well to do, smart, funny, caring and loving individuals who I would do anything for and vice versa

is this a wind up, one minute your Jesus, and in the next blink of the eye you are Casanova, and sorry, but what has 'well to do' got to do with anything? what does it even mean?

By the way that paragraph where you quoted me, if you read it was saying increase your sample size.

and I have already stated I have no need to thanks to the company I keep.

Also get some better company and stop trying to measure yourself.

better company? you mean well to do types?

I personally don't care who you associate yourself with.

then why are you trying to help me get better company? are you confused? is it hard being Jesus one moment and Casanova, the next?

And your right I have damaged myself but sometimes you have to break something down before you can make something better. No better teacher out their than failure. Oh and 129 good job! :slow clap: I don't know your situation, but you might have an addiction which I hope you have found some help for.

you are now arguing against your own point, maybe we should continue this when you have either decided what point you are making, or you have finished being bored.

As for your wife, she probably is a wonderful person, suck to hear that happened to her. I hope nothing but the best for her and you.

why thank you

P.S. I can remember what I wrote, quite simply because I can go back and read it. DUH! You will see that you wrote "force yourself".

sorry this makes no sense to me, I am afraid I do not speak fluent 13 year old American, perhaps you need a younger forum?

P.P.S. I don't know what word you mean the one that starts with a "m" and ends with and "e"

mortgage Mod note: Harry Ji, mind your language! -Ishna

P.P.P.S. A samosa would be great, actually make that two. Im a fat kid at heart. That why I stay on this horse. It's easier to travel!

no, no, its me on my high horse, remember? what your saying does not make sense, unless you are on a high horse. Perhaps one day I could explain wit and sarcasm to you?

P.P.P.P.S I just came here to sell some t-shirts! ahahhahaha TIME TO GO HAVE SENSELESS SEX

with who? you don't cheat remember? or is it senseless sex with the wife? is that a correct way to treat your wife in a public forum? I am sure she would be delighted.

The trouble with you, is you think your a naughty boy doing a few naughty things behind the back of your well to do family, your a child, you will not commit yourself to either the flesh or to god, not for you the burning fires, no my friend, you walk the convenient middle path of compromise, lets just hope no one finds out eh.

 

[ActsOfGod]

You amuse me.

You are ignorant, brainwashed by culture and society into thinking that the more women you sleep around with, the more of a man it makes you. The reality is that it just makes you a slave, shackled and dominated by your own lust. You are not free, you are a prisoner, enslaved. You have given up your honor and dignity and you are ignorantly broadcasting your shame on a public forum. There is no integrity in this behavior. You don't even realize how you are humiliating yourself.

Read the following to learn how real men behave. In case you weren't aware, Hari Singh Nalwa is the only General in history to have successfully conquered Afghanistan:-

During the times of Sher-e-Panjab, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the Sikh Raaj (kingdom) stretched from the Sutlej River to Kabul (in Afghanistan). Raja Ranjit Singh's key general was Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa, who was a Rehatvan (strictly observant) Sikh of the Guru.

Once, when Hari Singh Nalwa had set up camp with his army in Jamrud in Afghanistan, a local Muslim woman called 'Bano' had watched the Sikhs set up camp. She found Hari Singh Nalwa very handsome and attractive, and had the thought that the commander of the Sikhs would be a fine man by which to have a child, hopefully a son.

One day, Bano came to see the General who was sitting in his tent. When his guards told him that he had a local woman who wished to see him, not knowing who this lady was or what she wanted, Hari Singh gave permission for her to enter his tent. Bano said, "I have heard of the Sikhs. You are remarkable people. I have been watching you from a distance. I am not married and have no children, but I desire to have a son who is like you."

Hari Singh, not understanding the motivation or intention of Bano said, "May Waheguru bless you that you may have a son with the qualities of a Sikh." Bano irritably said, "No I want to have a son with you Sardar Ji."

Hari Singh Nalwa replied, "O sister! I am already married. I am sorry I cannot marry you or give you what you want."

Bano's eyes welled up with tears of disappointment. About to leave, she said, "I had heard your Guru Nanak was great and that no one leaves empty handed from Guru Nanak's House, but today I am being turned away without the wish of a son being fulfilled."

Hari Singh Nalwa, a true example of a Sikh of the Guru, replied, "It is true that no one goes empty handed from Guru Nanak's House. I cannot give you a son, but if you desire a son who is like me, then instead if you accept, from now on I will be your son, and I will consider you my mother."

Bano was shocked and overwhelmed by Hari Singh Nalwa's sincerity, high moral character and faith in the Guru. She said, "I had heard that Sikhs of the Guru are great honorable people, but today I have witnessed it with my own eyes".

From that day on Hari Singh Nalwa addressed Begum Bano as "Maa" (Mother) and she addressed Hari Singh as "Putar" (Son).

[source: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Hari_Singh_Nalwa_&_Begum_Bano]

 

[JourneyOflife]

Post under review - Ishna

I agree with some of thing things you've mentioned in your posts, but this is extremely rude and uncalled for. Calling people "dumb *****" and "dumb *****" doesn't make you sound cool, smart or funny. Swearing may be popular among you and your group of friends, but nobody else is going to give you the time of day if that is how you behave.

Before you begin to make assumptions about my personal life, I'll go ahead and mention I wasn't raised Sikh, haven't even been one for a very long time and don't go to the Gurdwara very often (something I'd like to change). I get the impression you seem to think the only people who would disagree with your views on here are hardcore practising Sikhs or individuals from the odler generation, but I was born and brought up in the west, we're probably around the same age and even I can recognize the cultural relativism in your posts.

 

[thegurwinder]

I agree with some of thing things you've mentioned in your posts, but this is extremely rude and uncalled for. Calling people "dumb *****" and "dumb *****" doesn't make you sound cool, smart or funny. Swearing may be popular among you and your group of friends, but nobody else is going to give you the time of day if that is how you behave.

Before you begin to make assumptions about my personal life, I'll go ahead and mention I wasn't raised Sikh, haven't even been one for a very long time and don't go to the Gurdwara very often (something I'd like to change). I get the impression you seem to think the only people who would disagree with your views on here are hardcore practising Sikhs or individuals from the odler generation, but I was born and brought up in the west, we're probably around the same age and even I can recognize the cultural relativism in your posts.

Yes I appear dumb, I know it. That does not bother me in the slightest. Because I don't care about how your perceive me and how I'm supposed to act. Yes I can read what I wrote, but when I am making a direct point and then you use the religious doctrine to move off topic. As well as to attack me telling me I am less of a man because i offer a PRACTICAL REAL WORLD SOLUTION. It infuriates me. The only reason you would do something like this is if you were stupid and did not understand what I was saying. So if you are going to combat me with religious doctrine and go off topic I am going to use my rude vocabulary to combat you. No one wins, I am not here to win.

But, I can recognize when I am in the wrong, If I have offended any of you I offer my apologies. But aside from that I stand by what I have said.

 

[ActsOfGod]

I forgive you because you are juvenile and childish, and do not know of the things you are speaking of. You are still learning, and one day, with Gurus kirpa you will gain some wisdom. Let's hope it won't be too late.

There is one point, however, that I will take issue with:

All you other dumb shits out there, all our Guru's are men. Their words is not absolute. Welcome to the 21st century. Things change. Grow with the times.

You want to think long and hard before you raise a word against Guru Sahib. To be very clear and just so that your childish mind has no doubts: Guru Sahibs word is absolute truth. We are blessed to even have the opportunity to read the words of Gurbani. So many millions pass from this Earth without having the chance, and it's their sad and unfortunate loss.

Come back in five or ten years after you've grown up, and share what you have learned. Then we will talk.

[AoG]

 

[thegurwinder]

I forgive you because you are juvenile and childish, and do not know of the things you are speaking of. You are still learning, and one day, with Gurus kirpa you will gain some wisdom. Let's hope it won't be too late.

There is one point, however, that I will take issue with:



You want to think long and hard before you raise a word against Guru Sahib. To be very clear and just so that your childish mind has no doubts: Guru Sahibs word is absolute truth. We are blessed to even have the opportunity to read the words of Gurbani. So many millions pass from this Earth without having the chance, and it's their sad and unfortunate loss.

Come back in five or ten years after you've grown up, and share what you have learned. Then we will talk.

[AoG]

Show me if you are so adept the proof where GOD himself came down from upon the heavens and wrote this book of hyms that is the absolute truth.

 

[ActsOfGod]

Show me if you are so adept the proof where GOD himself came down from upon the heavens and wrote this book of hyms that is the absolute truth.

God doesn't live in "the heavens". You have a lot to learn.

 

[JourneyOflife]

Yes I appear dumb, I know it. That does not bother me in the slightest. Because I don't care about how your perceive me and how I'm supposed to act.

That's fine but on a forum like this, there are generally rules regarding discussion etiquette. You're free to act however you wish in the real world, but on here, I'm pretty sure there is a standard of politeness that requires adhering.

Yes I can read what I wrote, but when I am making a direct point and then you use the religious doctrine to move off topic. As well as to attack me telling me I am less of a man because i offer a PRACTICAL REAL WORLD SOLUTION. It infuriates me. The only reason you would do something like this is if you were stupid and did not understand what I was saying. So if you are going to combat me with religious doctrine and go off topic I am going to use my rude vocabulary to combat you. No one wins, I am not here to win.

I read the other post and I think the language was probably as bit too harsh. "Brainwashed" isn't the best way to get your point across, imo, and I understand why you may feel frustrated.

That said, this is a Sikh forum and the assumption is that those asking questions here are seeking answers from a Sikh perspective. There isn't anything wrong with quoting scripture on a Sikh discussion board like this one, I don't think you can honestly be surprised that it happened...

 

[thegurwinder]

God doesn't live in "the heavens". You have a lot to learn.

It's a figure of speech, come now lets be so literal. So your denying to show me that gods own hand wrote this book. Because if not them a man or guru must have wrote it. Well men have a tendency to exaggerate, embellish, and forget things. Im a sikh, so isn't it your rightful duty as a sikh to teach me? Your acting all high and mighty give me some references.

 

[thegurwinder]

That's fine but on a forum like this, there are generally rules regarding discussion etiquette. You're free to act however you wish in the real world, but on here, I'm pretty sure there is a standard of politeness that requires adhering.



I read the other post and I think the language was probably as bit too harsh. "Brainwashed" isn't the best way to get your point across, imo, and I understand why you may feel frustrated.

That said, this is a Sikh forum and the assumption is that those asking questions here are seeking answers from a Sikh perspective. There isn't anything wrong with quoting scripture on a Sikh discussion board like this one, I don't think you can honestly be surprised that it happened...

Im not surprised that it happened. Im annoyed that they are using things that don't correlate.

 

[JourneyOflife]

It's a figure of speech, come now lets be so literal. So your denying to show me that gods own hand wrote this book. Because if not them a man or guru must have wrote it. Well men have a tendency to exaggerate, embellish, and forget things. Im a sikh, so isn't it your rightful duty as a sikh to teach me? Your acting all high and mighty give me some references.

I'm not a mod and maybe it isn't my place to say this, but this is getting very far off topic. Your question is a very valid one and could make for great discussion, but for organization's sake, it may be a good idea to just start a new thread which deals with this particular topic. If I'm an anonymous forum browser who checks out SPN's main page every now and then, I wouldn't expect to find this discussion in a thread with the thread title OP has given it, but it is definitely a discussion I would want to see.

 

[thegurwinder]

Your right, you random beautiful stranger.

OP If you read my posts, their are a few. I have given you real world practical advice, follow them or don't. Either which way the only solution to your problem is learning self control and having will power. This does not have to mean abstinence, rather redirection.

Take care! I have faith you'll be fine.

 

[ActsOfGod]

It's a figure of speech, come now lets be so literal. So your denying to show me that gods own hand wrote this book. Because if not them a man or guru must have wrote it. Well men have a tendency to exaggerate, embellish, and forget things. Im a sikh, so isn't it your rightful duty as a sikh to teach me? Your acting all high and mighty give me some references.

There are numerous references in Gurbani. Here are just two:


ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
Tilang, First Mehl:

ਜੈਸੀ ਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਖਸਮ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੈਸੜਾ ਕਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥
As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.

ਪਾਪ ਕੀ ਜੰਞ ਲੈ ਕਾਬਲਹੁ ਧਾਇਆ ਜੋਰੀ ਮੰਗੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥
Bringing the marriage party of sin, Babar has invaded from Kaabul, demanding our land as his wedding gift, O Lalo.

ਸਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੁਇ ਛਪਿ ਖਲੋਏ ਕੂੜੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥
Modesty and righteousness both have vanished, and falsehood struts around like a leader, O Lalo.

ਕਾਜੀਆ ਬਾਮਣਾ ਕੀ ਗਲ ਥਕੀ ਅਗਦੁ ਪੜੈ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥
The Qazis and the Brahmins have lost their roles, and Satan now conducts the marriage rites, O Lalo.

ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੀਆ ਪੜਹਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਕਸਟ ਮਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥
The Muslim women read the Koran, and in their misery, they call upon God, O Lalo.

ਜਾਤਿ ਸਨਾਤੀ ਹੋਰਿ ਹਿਦਵਾਣੀਆ ਏਹਿ ਭੀ ਲੇਖੈ ਲਾਇ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥
The Hindu women of high social status, and others of lowly status as well, are put into the same category, O Lalo.

ਖੂਨ ਕੇ ਸੋਹਿਲੇ ਗਾਵੀਅਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਤੁ ਕਾ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਪਾਇ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥੧॥
The wedding songs of murder are sung, O Nanak, and blood is sprinkled instead of saffron, O Lalo. ||1||

ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਮਾਸ ਪੁਰੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਖੁ ਮਸੋਲਾ ॥
Nanak sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord and Master in the city of corpses, and voices this account.

ਜਿਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਵਾਈ ਬੈਠਾ ਵੇਖੈ ਵਖਿ ਇਕੇਲਾ ॥
The One who created, and attached the mortals to pleasures, sits alone, and watches this.

ਸਚਾ ਸੋ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਚੁ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਸਚੜਾ ਨਿਆਉ ਕਰੇਗੁ ਮਸੋਲਾ ॥
The Lord and Master is True, and True is His justice. He issues His Commands according to His judgment.

ਕਾਇਆ ਕਪੜੁ ਟੁਕੁ ਟੁਕੁ ਹੋਸੀ ਹਿਦੁਸਤਾਨੁ ਸਮਾਲਸੀ ਬੋਲਾ ॥
The body-fabric will be torn apart into shreds, and then India will remember these words.

ਆਵਨਿ ਅਠਤਰੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਸਤਾਨਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਭੀ ਉਠਸੀ ਮਰਦ ਕਾ ਚੇਲਾ ॥
Coming in seventy-eight (1521 A.D.), they will depart in ninety-seven (1540 A.D.), and then another disciple of man will rise up.

-------


ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
Bilaaval, Fourth Mehl:

ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਸੂਦੁ ਵੈਸੁ ਕੋ ਜਾਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਜਪੈਨੀ ॥
Anyone, from any class - Kshatriya, Brahman, Soodra or Vaisya - can chant, and meditate on the Mantra of the Lord's Name.

ਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਸੇਵਹੁ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਸਭ ਰੈਨੀ ॥੧॥
Worship the Guru, the True Guru, as the Supreme Lord God; serve Him constantly, all day and night. ||1||

ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨੈਨੀ ॥
O humble servants of the Lord, behold the True Guru with your eyes.

ਜੋ ਇਛਹੁ ਸੋਈ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਬੈਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Whatever you wish for, you shall receive, chanting the Word of the Lord's Name, under Guru's Instruction. ||1||Pause||

ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਵ ਚਿਤਵੀਅਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਸਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਜਿ ਬਾਤ ਹੋਵੈਨੀ ॥
People think of many and various efforts, but that alone happens, which is to happen.

ਅਪਨਾ ਭਲਾ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ਬਾਛੈ ਸੋ ਕਰੇ ਜਿ ਮੇਰੈ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਚਿਤੈਨੀ ॥੨॥
All beings seek goodness for themselves, but what the Lord does - that may not be what we think and expect. ||2||

ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਤਿਆਗਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਏਹਾ ਬਾਤ ਕਠੈਨੀ ॥
So renounce the clever intellect of your mind, O humble servants of the Lord, no matter how hard this may be.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਲੈਨੀ ॥੩॥
Night and day, meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, Har, Har; accept the wisdom of the Guru, the True Guru. ||3||

ਮਤਿ ਸੁਮਤਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਵਸਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹਮ ਜੰਤ ਤੂ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਜੰਤੈਨੀ ॥
Wisdom, balanced wisdom is in Your power, O Lord and Master; I am the instrument, and You are the player, O Primal Lord.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਰਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਬੁਲੈਨੀ ॥੪॥੫॥
O God, O Creator, Lord and Master of servant Nanak, as You wish, so do I speak. ||4||5||

 

[thegurwinder]

ਜੈਸੀ ਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਖਸਮ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੈਸੜਾ ਕਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥
As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.

This is the only thing.

What is it to express something. To express something is to convey (a thought or feeling) in words or by gestures and conduct.

But I'm pretty sure somewhere in the adi granth it say's "If anyone presumes to describe God, he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools!"

Well i'm pretty sure if you cant describe him it would be impossible to describe his words, simply because they would be concepts mere mortals could not understand at that level. So we are forced to translate it to the best of our abilities to our language. There is something called "lost in translation" you don't think that happened? Plus using a medium that says I will express it to you is not showing me that the hand of god came down and wrote this himself.

Your arguments are so far invalid. Try again.

 

[ActsOfGod]

There is something called "lost in translation" you don't think that happened? Plus using a medium that says I will express it to you is not showing me that the hand of god came down and wrote this himself.

Nope. As the Bani came to Guru Sahib, they wrote it. Nothing was lost in translation.

Your arguments are so far invalid. Try again.

I'm not really arguing with you, nor do I have to prove anything to you. If you dispute that Guru Sahib's Bani is the absolute truth, that's fine by me. If you demand proof that God inspired Guru Sahib to write down Gurbani, then that is your hangup, not mine. You can run your proofs and arguments all you want, and be satisfied that I failed to convince you through your line of reasoning. That's all fine and good. You can choose to reject Guru Sahib's teachings and wisdom, and instead follow your own 'mat' (wisdom). That is also your choice. You don't need to win any arguments from me to do that. You are free to believe whatever you like.

To address a few insinuations you made earlier: I did not claim to know anything about God or to describe Him. It was you who demanded proof that God had a hand in the authorship of the Guru Granth Sahib. You also claimed that I was acting "all high and mighty". I was not (and am not). However, your previous posts contain a lot of inflammatory and rude language. If you can't take it, best not to dish it out.

You demanded that it was my responsibility to teach you because you are a Sikh. I will be happy to do that, when you ready. Right now your ego is in the way, as is mine. Perhaps the fault is mine that I failed to reach you. For that, I apologize. I hope you forgive me. I am also on a path of learning, just like everyone. With Guru's kirpa, in the future I will be better.

Guru Sahib kirpa karan.

[AoG]

 

[Ishna]

I'm not a mod and maybe it isn't my place to say this, but this is getting very far off topic. Your question is a very valid one and could make for great discussion, but for organization's sake, it may be a good idea to just start a new thread which deals with this particular topic. If I'm an anonymous forum browser who checks out SPN's main page every now and then, I wouldn't expect to find this discussion in a thread with the thread title OP has given it, but it is definitely a discussion I would want to see.

Thank you JourneyOflife Ji.

Further off-topic posts may be deleted without warning.

@thegurwinder Ji, this is the second request for you to mind your language. Your valuable contributions are welcome, however inappropriate language will not be tolerated. Thank you