What Gurus Really Taught - A Different Perspective

[spnadmin]

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
sorath mehalaa 5 ||
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl:


ਪਰਮੇਸਰਿ ਦਿਤਾ ਬੰਨਾ ॥
paramaesar dhithaa bannaa ||
The Transcendent Lord has given me His support.

ਦੁਖ ਰੋਗ ਕਾ ਡੇਰਾ ਭੰਨਾ ॥
dhukh rog kaa ddaeraa bhannaa ||
The house of pain and disease has been demolished.

ਅਨਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਰ ਨਾਰੀ ॥
anadh karehi nar naaree ||
The men and women celebrate.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੀ ॥੧॥
har har prabh kirapaa dhhaaree ||1||
The Lord God, Har, Har, has extended His Mercy. ||1||

ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਆ ਸਭ ਥਾਈ ॥
santhahu sukh hoaa sabh thhaaee ||
O Saints, there is peace everywhere.


ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪੂਰਨ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਭਨੀ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
paarabreham pooran paramaesar rav rehiaa sabhanee jaaee || rehaao ||
The Supreme Lord God, the Perfect Transcendent Lord, is pervading everywhere. ||Pause||

ਧੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਆਈ ॥
dhhur kee baanee aaee ||
The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.

ਤਿਨਿ ਸਗਲੀ ਚਿੰਤ ਮਿਟਾਈ ॥
thin sagalee chinth mittaaee ||
It eradicates all anxiety.

ਦਇਆਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨਾ ॥
dhaeiaal purakh miharavaanaa ||
The Lord is merciful, kind and compassionate.


ਹਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੁ ਵਖਾਨਾ ॥੨॥੧੩॥੭੭॥
har naanak saach vakhaanaa ||2||13||77||
Nanak chants the Naam, the Name of the True Lord. ||2||13||77||​

I have just posted the entire shabad from Ang 627/8. Respected forum members, it is essential that the entire shabad be posted so that the meaning of a tuk is clear. Famous are the words, DHUR KI BAANI AAEE TINi SAGALI CHINT MITAAI
DAYAAL PURAKH MIHARWANA HARi NANAK SAACHu VAKHANA

However, respected prakash.s.baggu ji. These are not 2 lines but 4, and the || notation is significant in conveying Guru Arjan Dev ji's intended meaning. And is not a matter of idle fascination with details. || is an important detail. Meaning is carried by the structure. Each of the 4 lines, not 2, ends with the || indicating they are working together, and follow from the rehao as a group, giving the realization that comes to us from grasping the meaning of the rehao,

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪੂਰਨ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਭਨੀ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
paarabreham pooran paramaesar rav rehiaa sabhanee jaaee || rehaao ||
The Supreme Lord God, the Perfect Transcendent Lord, is pervading everywhere. ||Pause||

In other words, if you get the point of the rehao liine, Then those 4 tuks, not 2, define the nature of the awakening that comes to you. Each is one aspect of the awakening.

Please post the entire shabd, in the future, with Gurmukhi as well as English. It is a forum rule.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

FINDINGSMYWAYS,Pl Accept my Divine Greetings,
I am extremely impressed with your wonderful message.
I may bring to your kind notice the grammer of various words in your message .
SHABAD...Gramatically the word is PLURAL..Its SINGULAR is the word SHABADu
AKALPURAKH..The word is PLURAL..Its SINGULAR is the word AKALPURAKHu
GURU...........The word is SINGULAR

We say BAANI is GUROO {NOT GURU}.You may pl notice the words in Gurbaani.I am referering GUROO as a word as given in the SALOK at tha end as PAWAN GUROO>>>
The word GUROO and GURU are different with different grammer and different reference meanings.
In view of above consideration you may refine your just WONDERFUL message.
With best wishes
Prakash.s.bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

In Gurbaani we all come across in the following three important words.

1.GUROO........This is a word with two underlines beneath the letter R of the word

2..GURU..........This is a word with one line beneath the letter R of the word

3...GUR............No line beneath the letter R of the word.
These are very very important words of Gurbaani.In fact these words constitute the
whole base of Gurbaani.
We do not make any differentiation in the reference meanings of these words because of non application of proper grammer to the words.So we are a unable to contrue the meaning of these words.Because we take all these words as ONE.
If we apply proper grammer to these words then we may come to a new concept of Gurbaani understanding which could be entirely different than what we know today.
Sometimes the meanings would be just diamatrically opposite than our present understanding.But We have to understand what our GURU is really telling .Then only we should able to say WAHi GUROO
The above concept is "B " of Gurbaani understanding as we are still at "A" of gurbaani ie THE Concept of SHABADuGUROO.
We shall definitely share the views of the above conept.But we must procced slowly and slowly giving due considerations to our present understanding of Gurbaani.
We can later on verify the usefulness of concepts from within SGGS Ji .
Prakash.s.bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

NAMJAP Ji
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
I would reqst you to display Gurbbani Shabad from pp864-865 GOND M.5
GURU MERI POOJA GURU GOBINDu in Gurmukhi script.
With regards
Prakash.s.bagga

 

[spnadmin]

I would like to see a return to the main topic of the thread. The conversation has veered in the direction of important issues that may deserve a thread to themselves. It may be that the discussion of the grammar of shabadguru should be a separate thread. If the discuss of GURU cannot be wrapped up in the next few posts, then I will do that.

 

[Astroboy]

NAMJAP Ji
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
I would reqst you to display Gurbbani Shabad from pp864-865 GOND M.5
GURU MERI POOJA GURU GOBINDu in Gurmukhi script.
With regards
Prakash.s.bagga

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਗੋਂਡ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
गोंड महला ५ ॥
Gond mėhlā 5.
Gond, Fifth Mehl:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ॥
गुरु मेरी पूजा गुरु गोबिंदु ॥
Gur merī pūjā gur gobinḏ.
I worship and adore my Guru; the Guru is the Lord of the Universe.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਭਗਵੰਤੁ ॥
गुरु मेरा पारब्रहमु गुरु भगवंतु ॥
Gur merā pārbarahm gur bẖagvanṯ.
My Guru is the Supreme Lord God; the Guru is the Lord God.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਦੇਉ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਉ ॥
गुरु मेरा देउ अलख अभेउ ॥
Gur merā ḏe▫o alakẖ abẖe▫o.
My Guru is divine, invisible and mysterious.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਰਬ ਪੂਜ ਚਰਨ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਉ ॥੧॥
सरब पूज चरन गुर सेउ ॥१॥
Sarab pūj cẖaran gur se▫o. ||1||
I serve at the Guru's feet, which are worshipped by all. ||1||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੈ ਥਾਉ ॥
गुर बिनु अवरु नाही मै थाउ ॥
Gur bin avar nāhī mai thā▫o.
Without the Guru, I have no other place at all.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अनदिनु जपउ गुरू गुर नाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
An▫ḏin japa▫o gurū gur nā▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Night and day, I chant the Name of Guru, Guru. ||1||Pause||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥
गुरु मेरा गिआनु गुरु रिदै धिआनु ॥
Gur merā gi▫ān gur riḏai ḏẖi▫ān.
The Guru is my spiritual wisdom, the Guru is the meditation within my heart.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥
गुरु गोपालु पुरखु भगवानु ॥
Gur gopāl purakẖ bẖagvān.
The Guru is the Lord of the World, the Primal Being, the Lord God.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਰਹਉ ਕਰ ਜੋਰਿ ॥
गुर की सरणि रहउ कर जोरि ॥
Gur kī saraṇ raha▫o kar jor.
With my palms pressed together, I remain in the Guru's Sanctuary.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਹੋਰੁ ॥੨॥
गुरू बिना मै नाही होरु ॥२॥
Gurū binā mai nāhī hor. ||2||
Without the Guru, I have no other at all. ||2||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਹਿਥੁ ਤਾਰੇ ਭਵ ਪਾਰਿ ॥
गुरु बोहिथु तारे भव पारि ॥
Gur bohith ṯāre bẖav pār.
The Guru is the boat to cross over the terrifying world-ocean.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਛੁਟਕਾਰਿ ॥
गुर सेवा जम ते छुटकारि ॥
Gur sevā jam ṯe cẖẖutkār.
Serving the Guru, one is released from the Messenger of Death.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਅੰਧਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥
अंधकार महि गुर मंत्रु उजारा ॥
Anḏẖkār mėh gur manṯar ujārā.
In the darkness, the Guru's Mantra shines forth.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਗਲ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
गुर कै संगि सगल निसतारा ॥३॥
Gur kai sang sagal nisṯārā. ||3||
With the Guru, all are saved. ||3||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ॥
गुरु पूरा पाईऐ वडभागी ॥
Gur pūrā pā▫ī▫ai vadbẖāgī.
The Perfect Guru is found, by great good fortune.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥
गुर की सेवा दूखु न लागी ॥
Gur kī sevā ḏūkẖ na lāgī.
Serving the Guru, pain does not afflict anyone.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
गुर का सबदु न मेटै कोइ ॥
Gur kā sabaḏ na metai ko▫e.
No one can erase the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੭॥੯॥
गुरु नानकु नानकु हरि सोइ ॥४॥७॥९॥
Gur Nānak Nānak har so▫e. ||4||7||9||
Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||
</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

NAMJAP Ji
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
Thakyou very much for accepting my request.
We would find that this is a excellent Gurbaani shabad from GOND M5 wherein we come across three distict types of words as GURU,GUR,and GURoo'.
As the grammer of above three words is different but we are giving the same meaning as '
"GURU" only.
Considering grammer of the words the word GUR{In Gurmukhi script this word has no line
under its last letter},is PLURAL but we are giving meaning as GURU which is SINGULAR'
Gramatically these two words can not be equated.
Whereas the word GURU[as given inthe very first line of the shabad] is SINGULAR but we
have written in Engish as GUR and given the meaning as GURU.Here the meaning is correct but the translation of the word is incorrect.
For the word GUROO[in gurmukhi script a word with two lines under its last letter];Gramatically this word is SINGULAR but represnting pair of singular word as GURU.GURU.An impotnt point here is that these two words can be equated.
In a nut shell we can say
the WORD GURU can not be equated with the word GUR
The word GUROO can not be equated with the word GUR
The GUROO can be equated with the word GURU
Accordingly the meaning GUROO GUR NAO is quite different than what we know as given.
Similarly the meaning of GUR KA SHABADu is different here GUR can not be reffered as GURU as the word GUR is PLURAL and the word SHABADu is SINGULAR[In Gurbaani the word is mostly SHABADu not SHABAD as we understand.
Actually the whole concept of understanding Gurbaani is Basically related to two important
concepts
THE CONCEPT OF SHABADuGUROO as we have shared earlier and is going on
THe concept of SHABADu GUROO JOTi we are slowly moving towards this
As these two concepts become clear we shall be getting near to SATi GURU and this SATiGURU will give us the ultimate knowledge about GURMATi RAM NAAmu/HARiNAAMu/
RAMNAAMA/HARiNAAMA
By the Grace of SATiGURU nothing mine,
With regards
Prakash S Bagga

 

[findingmyway]

NAMJAP Ji
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
Thakyou very much for accepting my request.
We would find that this is a excellent Gurbaani shabad from GOND M5 wherein we come across three distict types of words as GURU,GUR,and GURoo'.
As the grammer of above three words is different but we are giving the same meaning as '
"GURU" only.
Considering grammer of the words the word GUR{In Gurmukhi script this word has no line
under its last letter},is PLURAL but we are giving meaning as GURU which is SINGULAR'
Gramatically these two words can not be equated.
Whereas the word GURU[as given inthe very first line of the shabad] is SINGULAR but we
have written in Engish as GUR and given the meaning as GURU.Here the meaning is correct but the translation of the word is incorrect.
For the word GUROO[in gurmukhi script a word with two lines under its last letter];Gramatically this word is SINGULAR but represnting pair of singular word as GURU.GURU.An impotnt point here is that these two words can be equated.
In a nut shell we can say
the WORD GURU can not be equated with the word GUR
The word GUROO can not be equated with the word GUR
The GUROO can be equated with the word GURU
Accordingly the meaning GUROO GUR NAO is quite different than what we know as given.
Similarly the meaning of GUR KA SHABADu is different here GUR can not be reffered as GURU as the word GUR is PLURAL and the word SHABADu is SINGULAR[In Gurbaani the word is mostly SHABADu not SHABAD as we understand.
Actually the whole concept of understanding Gurbaani is Basically related to two important
concepts
THE CONCEPT OF SHABADuGUROO as we have shared earlier and is going on
THe concept of SHABADu GUROO JOTi we are slowly moving towards this
As these two concepts become clear we shall be getting near to SATi GURU and this SATiGURU will give us the ultimate knowledge about GURMATi RAM NAAmu/HARiNAAMu/
RAMNAAMA/HARiNAAMA
By the Grace of SATiGURU nothing mine,
With regards
Prakash S Bagga

Apologies Prakash Ji,
but i am more confused than ever!! If the translation of gur is wrong, then what is the correct translation? I still don't understand the concept of plural Guru's as we only ever had 1 guru at a time?!

 

[Tejwant Singh]

NAMJAP Ji
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
Thakyou very much for accepting my request.
We would find that this is a excellent Gurbaani shabad from GOND M5 wherein we come across three distict types of words as GURU,GUR,and GURoo'.
As the grammer of above three words is different but we are giving the same meaning as '
"GURU" only.
Considering grammer of the words the word GUR{In Gurmukhi script this word has no line
under its last letter},is PLURAL but we are giving meaning as GURU which is SINGULAR'
Gramatically these two words can not be equated.
Whereas the word GURU[as given inthe very first line of the shabad] is SINGULAR but we
have written in Engish as GUR and given the meaning as GURU.Here the meaning is correct but the translation of the word is incorrect.
For the word GUROO[in gurmukhi script a word with two lines under its last letter];Gramatically this word is SINGULAR but represnting pair of singular word as GURU.GURU.An impotnt point here is that these two words can be equated.
In a nut shell we can say
the WORD GURU can not be equated with the word GUR
The word GUROO can not be equated with the word GUR
The GUROO can be equated with the word GURU
Accordingly the meaning GUROO GUR NAO is quite different than what we know as given.
Similarly the meaning of GUR KA SHABADu is different here GUR can not be reffered as GURU as the word GUR is PLURAL and the word SHABADu is SINGULAR[In Gurbaani the word is mostly SHABADu not SHABAD as we understand.
Actually the whole concept of understanding Gurbaani is Basically related to two important
concepts
THE CONCEPT OF SHABADuGUROO as we have shared earlier and is going on
THe concept of SHABADu GUROO JOTi we are slowly moving towards this
As these two concepts become clear we shall be getting near to SATi GURU and this SATiGURU will give us the ultimate knowledge about GURMATi RAM NAAmu/HARiNAAMu/
RAMNAAMA/HARiNAAMA
By the Grace of SATiGURU nothing mine,
With regards
Prakash S Bagga

Prakash Singh Bagga ji,

Guru Fateh.

Interesting take. But I have a request to make. Please interpret the Shabad that you had requested from Namjap ji in your own words with the understanding of Gurbani grammar you possess.

Only by comparative study of what is mentioned and with your knowledge we can understand the true meaning of the Shabad.

Hope to learn from your interpretation of the whole Shabad.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

FINDINGMYWAY Ji,
ACCEPT DIVINE GREETINGS,
First of all I may request that there isno need to be apologetic as we are here to share our views.There is no reason why we should differ in our views.
I fully understand your confusion.The requirement is that you must first be sure about the view that Gurbaani words can be Gramatically SINGULAR and/OR PLURAL.For this you must refer any good Book on Gurbaani Grammer.Once you are clear about this view
then probably you will be able to catch the point'
If you are following Englsh version of SGGS Ji then you will never be able get the view of the Gurbaani words being SINGULAR or PLURAL as I find that in English the Grammer indications of Original SGGS ji as in Gurmukhi script have been removed.
For proper abd better understanding of Gurbaani Messages it is pertinent that even in
English version or in any other language the Gramtical indicationsmust be maintained
so that in any language there is no confusion in interpretation of Gurbaani.
I shall do my best to clarify the confusion.

With best wishes
Prakash.s.bagga
l

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

NAMJAP Ji.
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
I would request to diplay THE GURBAANI Shabad " MERA MUN LOCHE GUR DARSAN TAAI"
pp96 SGGS Ji
Thanks and Regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[findingmyway]

FINDINGMYWAY Ji,
ACCEPT DIVINE GREETINGS,
First of all I may request that there isno need to be apologetic as we are here to share our views.There is no reason why we should differ in our views.
I fully understand your confusion.The requirement is that you must first be sure about the view that Gurbaani words can be Gramatically SINGULAR and/OR PLURAL.For this you must refer any good Book on Gurbaani Grammer.Once you are clear about this view
then probably you will be able to catch the point'
If you are following Englsh version of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji then you will never be able get the view of the Gurbaani words being SINGULAR or PLURAL as I find that in English the Grammer indications of Original Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as in Gurmukhi script have been removed.
For proper abd better understanding of Gurbaani Messages it is pertinent that even in
English version or in any other language the Gramtical indicationsmust be maintained
so that in any language there is no confusion in interpretation of Gurbaani.
I shall do my best to clarify the confusion.

With best wishes
Prakash.s.bagga
l

Dear Prakash Ji,
As requested above, please can you explain the shabad previously posted with your understanding in your own words of each and every tuk. With this understanding, I think it will be easier to see what you are trying to demonstrate about plural vs singular

 

[jasi]

SS Akal Ji.

The research of any kinds on any scriptures is for historian or writers but to have been blessed with blind faith is something else like DHANNA believed in stone.

Gurubani leads our ways to realizes the Supreme power not as much by understanding the words by words but faith in every words.

The rest is all wondering to have personal understandings which is also born by truthful longings.

Jaspi

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

SS Akal Ji.

The research of any kinds on any scriptures is for historian or writers but to have been blessed with blind faith is something else like DHANNA believed in stone.

Gurubani leads our ways to realizes the Supreme power not as much by understanding the words by words but faith in every words.

The rest is all wondering to have personal understandings which is also born by truthful longings.

Jaspi

Just a personal opinion. However we study Gurbani is fruitful. There is no one approach that is the "right" way to study it. What works and makes sense to one might be complete nonsense to another. Poetic analysis works for one, scientific analysis for another, grammatical analysis for another. How wonderful if all these approaches can be combined for a fuller understanding. The wisdom of Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji maharaj cannot be exhausted.

I think the most important thing is to study, absorb the principles contained therein and apply them to our lives. A good question to ask, I think, is "What does the author of this shabad (any shabad) mean to convey?"

Just my personal thoughts on the subject.

wahkaur

 

[jasi]

S S AKAL JI.

Mai Harinder Kaur Ji.

Each words you have written in your message is 100 % real.

When one is blessed with urge to seek something higher than himself it
has never been achieved by readings or isolate oneself in Moutains
Jungles until (JYOT) kindled his interest of realizing the Supreme being is
set in one's heart.Guru


Guru Nanak Dev Ji blessed us with Gurbani, to understand the SHABAD
as a true path way to realizations of Supreme beings by any one who
follows the Gurbani by heart and mind.

To realize that one is strongly believe in fundamental principals on
which Guru Nanak Dev JI created our faith is # 1 priority to practice
in our daily life as a first step to understand the Sikh philosophy and
respect to our all gurus...

Jaspi

Just a personal opinion. However we study Gurbani is fruitful. There is no one approach that is the "right" way to study it. What works and makes sense to one might be complete nonsense to another. Poetic analysis works for one, scientific analysis for another, grammatical analysis for another. How wonderful if all these approaches can be combined for a fuller understanding. The wisdom of Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji maharaj cannot be exhausted.

I think the most important thing is to study, absorb the principles contained therein and apply them to our lives. A good question to ask, I think, is "What does the author of this shabad (any shabad) mean to convey?"

Just my personal thoughts on the subject.

wahkaur

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

DIVINE GREETINGS TO EVERY ONE,We must remember that "KNOWLEDGE IS TORCH" not the FAITH.
It is the result of knowledgeless faith that we believe and promote such stories like that of DHANA Ji got union with SUPREME thru worship of STONE .This concept is absolutely against the Basic idiology of Gurbaani.
With FAITH {Without Knowledge} how can we think of achieving the concept of KHALSA as envisaged by our GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji.
Our GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji handed over a treasure of knowledge in the form of Gurbaani and what justice we are doing we all are required to introspect.
When we will have knowledge of what treasure has been handed over to Sikhs for themselves as well as for the whole of humanity.
When we will have faith with the knowledge of treasure our faith will be enhanced
thousand times more than what we have today.We will be able to pass over the legacy of this treasure as it is.
You will appreciate the fact that this is the ONLY GURU GRANTH in the world which is aboriginal for the past 400 years.There is no scope of manupulating the contents of Gurbaani for this we Sikhs are greatly indebted to our GURU ARJUN DEV Ji.
On the conrary we instead trying to know thethe understanding as set by GURU ARJUN DEV Ji we present the interpretation in our own ways.
Is this our faith towards our GURUs.........A point to rethink

PRAKASH.S.BAGGA

 

[Tejwant Singh]

DIVINE GREETINGS TO EVERY ONE,We must remember that "KNOWLEDGE IS TORCH" not the FAITH.
It is the result of knowledgeless faith that we believe and promote such stories like that of DHANA Ji got union with SUPREME thru worship of STONE .This concept is absolutely against the Basic idiology of Gurbaani.
With FAITH {Without Knowledge} how can we think of achieving the concept of KHALSA as envisaged by our GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji.
Our GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji handed over a treasure of knowledge in the form of Gurbaani and what justice we are doing we all are required to introspect.
When we will have knowledge of what treasure has been handed over to Sikhs for themselves as well as for the whole of humanity.
When we will have faith with the knowledge of treasure our faith will be enhanced
thousand times more than what we have today.We will be able to pass over the legacy of this treasure as it is.
You will appreciate the fact that this is the ONLY GURU GRANTH in the world which is aboriginal for the past 400 years.There is no scope of manupulating the contents of Gurbaani for this we Sikhs are greatly indebted to our GURU ARJUN DEV Ji.
On the conrary we instead trying to know thethe understanding as set by GURU ARJUN DEV Ji we present the interpretation in our own ways.
Is this our faith towards our GURUs.........A point to rethink

PRAKASH.S.BAGGA

Prakash Singh Bagga ji,

Guru fateh.

I am still very anxiously waiting for your interpretation with your grammar knowledge of the first Shabad that you asked Namjap to post it.

I agree with you, knowledge is a torch. So please light my torch up with the help of your torch.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Respectable Tejwant Singh Ji,
Pl Accept my Divine Greetings,
I tried earlier two times to meet your mrssage requirement but unfotunately both times the message could not be delivered due to some hang up problem in my compu.
First of all I mtorchtay clear you that I am not a torch.With us we have TORCH of SHABADu of SATiGURu.I pray my SATiGURu to guide me .
I am sure are fully aware about the contents of the SHABAD GOND M5.This SHABAD is really a wonderful in that We can get the complete knowledge about the whole of Basic
concept of Gurbaani.
I may have to share some views regarding the concept of SHABADuGUROO JOTiin
relation to the three principal words GUROO/GURU/GUR {Refer gurmukhi scriptonly}
From within SSG Ji we come to know that Baani is SHABAD TARANG i.e The waves of different DIVINE WORDS{REF pp1404SGGSji}.There are several other references in SGGS Ji confirming to this aspect of Gurbaani.
Now we can know that the concept of SHABADuGUROO JOTi is relted as the waves of THE WORd GUROO.
For Understanding the meaning of TUK of RAHAO of the SHABAD it is important to understand the reference meaning of the words GUROO.GUR.
To understand the difference in the reference meaning of the words GUROO and GUR we can consider a vivid example of the SUN and SUNRAYS.Just as SUN is one and SUNRAYS are infinite.Similarly We have A SINGLE WORD SHABADu GUROO and The waves of the WORD GUROO as GUR.
Therefore the word GUR is PLURAL.
Since any wave is characterised by two parameters INFINITE and FINITE.
SO the SHABADu GUROO JOTi can be depicted as

SHABADuGUROo>>>>>>GUROO.GUROO.GUROO.GUROO.GUROO...........infinite
GUROO GURU.....................................................GUR
SINGULAR SINGULAR PLURAL

In Gurbaani we come across three references for the word GURU as
1 GURU=GUROO
2 GURU=GURU.GURU
3 GURU=GUROO.GUROO
All above references are visible in SGGS Ji

Now Considering the Concept of SHABADuGUROO and SHABADu GUROO JOTi we may come to the interpretation of the SHABAD GOND M 5
Interpretation of TUKof RAHAO
.........................................

There is no other place than POORA GURU ,I repeat the SINGLE WORD {NOUN}of SHABADuGUROO JOTi {GUROO.GUR}

To be conti......I would like to have your views before I proceed further
With WARM REGARDs
Prakash S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Respectable TEJWANT SINGH JI
In the last message there is some error the interpretation may be read as
"Without POORA GURU there is no other place
I,Everyday repeat the SINGLE WORD{NOUN} of SHABADu GUROO JOTi{GUROO.GUR}

May SATiGURu forgive me for the error
.........................................
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[jasi]

SS AKAL JI.

Bhul Chuk Moaf but this is my strong belief on this issue seems to be as follows without lecturing any member's of this forum who has their own opinions.

FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS IN SIKHISM REGARDLESS OF ANY GENDERS OR CAST SYSTEM.

FAITH LEADS TO KNOWLEDGE NOT KNOWLEDGE LEADS TO FAITH.

IF ONE IS ALREADY ENLIGHTENED (KNOWLEDGE)THEN ONE DO NOT NEED A FAITH.

KNOWLEDGE OF SUPREME BEING IS LAST STAGE TO BE WITH SUPREME BEINGS.

INFATUATIONS in many cases has lead the person to extreme faith thus on to process achieving the knowledge as one progress. The whole phenomena created by the blessing of who ever is one on focus may it be a object or human beings or to engaged in extensively to realize the Supreme being.

Dhanna story may be a man made one but it gives a strong message what sincere blind faith can lead some one to realization of Supreme being.

Many stories are available which make one to pray the God or seek realizations of Supreme beings.In old age most of the stories on Moral are to motivate the human society to great causes to achieve the realizations of the Supreme power.

Same thing does GURU GRANTH SAIB JI to motivate us through GURBANI (GURU"S SHABAD) to be able to realizes the Supreme beings.

There is another story of the man who was hanging in the well and noticed by a shepherd man. Shepherd man asked this hanging man with rope around his neck .What he was doing? The man replied I want to reach the God.

Is this the way you can reach the GOD ? asked the shepherd man. .

The man replied said yes.

The shepherd man believed in hanging man and made himself small rope of grass when real one was not available.

Story continue to read that God appeared and pulled the shepherd man out of the well. The shepherd man surprised to see God and asked a question how come you did not show HIS appearance to the man who has been hanging almost since one week before I did.?

Story further reveal that the God replied because he is hanging with strong rope for maximum protections to fall in the well and still attached to worldly attachments ,can not concentrate his thoughts to be realized by the Supreme power against your blind faith.

But you did not care about breaking of grass rope which may dry in one or two day and cause you to be drowned in the well. But your blind faith like DHANNA lead you to realization of Supreme beings.

The whole story convey us the bottom line message that blind faith blessed by Supreme being which kindle one's soul and knowledge is achieved to spread in the rest of human race .

jaspi