What Is Bhai Gurdas Jee's Key?

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Surinder Dud Jee!

Snatching hair or tearing cloths do not help knowing God.

Please come to know true Naam Simran. One does not need a Baabaa anymore.

Once again for the forgettable, the topic here is the key of Bhai Gurdas Jee. Please do not change it.


Balbir Singh

 

[simpy]

Veer Balbir Ji thankyou for clarifying even further more that you dont understand either English or Punjabi/Gurmukhi. Thanks again

 

[simpy]

Bhai Gurdas Ji on Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Sache paatshah

Rehnde Gur dariayo vich, meen kuleen het nirbani |
Darsan dekh patang jio(n) joti andar jot samani |
Sabad surat(i) liv mirg jio, bhirh payee chit avar na jani |
Gur Arjan vith(u) kurbani | (Bhai Gurdas, Var 24)

To achieve martyrdom, Guru Arjan Dev ji immersed in the God-like ocean like a fish. The Guru merged into the heavenly light like the moth that immolates itself after seeing the light.
.. I sacrifice my life to Guru Arjan.

 

[Astroboy]

Here's something I found which might interest some of you.

Debate Rules and Suggestions
Advice on Debating with Others

1. Avoid the use of Never.
2. Avoid the use of Always.
3. Refrain from saying you are wrong.
4. You can say your idea is mistaken.
5. Don't disagree with obvious truths.
6. Attack the idea not the person.
7. Use many rather than most.
8. Avoid exaggeration.
9. Use some rather than many.
10. The use of often allows for exceptions.
11. The use of generally allows for exceptions.

1. Quote sources and numbers.
2. If it is just an opinion, admit it.
3. Do not present opinion as facts.
4. Smile when disagreeing.
5. Stress the positive.
6. You do not need to win every battle to win the war.
7. Concede minor or trivial points.
8. Avoid bickering, quarreling, and wrangling.
9. Watch your tone of voice.
10. Don't win a debate and lose a friend.
11. Keep your perspective - You're just debating.

You need to be very polite when disagreeing with someone in English, even someone you know quite well.
With someone you know very well, you can disagree more directly.

 

[simpy]

how about Punjabi veerji, we can find realy nice substitutes................he he

want to try

 

[Astroboy]

You need to be very polite when disagreeing with someone in English, even someone you know quite well.
With someone you know very well, you can disagree more directly.

In Gurmukhi, Punjabi, English and all languages.
Thank you Surinder Ji, for pointing out.

 

[simpy]

Ranj Ki Jab Guftgu Hone lagee
aap se tum tum se tu hone lagee


how can we avoid that veer ji in punjabi where it ends up with Oye..........

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Surinder Jee!

Thanks for coming back to the topic and referring a part of Bhai Gurdas Jee's poem.

As assumed many are helpless and have to depend totally on translations available. They are poor who have no experience of true Naam Simran and plead for their Baabaas as guides.

This is my understanding of the referred lines from Bhai Gurdas Jee Vaar 24-23-1.

ਰਹਿਦੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਹੇਤੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ।
rahiday guru dareeaau vichi meen kuleen haytu nirabaanee|
Gurus live in rivers. Fish good kinship the cause without speech.

I do not know how your experts can interpret, translate and understand this line.

This is the second line.

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਪਤੰਗ ਜਿਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ।
darasanu daykhi patang jiu jotee andari joti samaanee|
Seeing appearance like a lepidopteran, the flame merges into flame.

Just by watching neither a patanga nor a flame merges into flame, in my observation.

This is the third line.

ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਮਿਰਗ ਜਿਉ ਭੀੜ ਪਈ ਚਿਤਿ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਆਣੀ ।
sabadu surati|iv mirag jiu bheerh paee chiti avaru n aanee|
Through Sabad consciousness incorporated like a deer, crowd gathers, in mind other does not enter.

Perhaps Bhai Jee recognized that Deer's Sabad consciousness does not get disturbed by the crowd gathered around. Is he suggesting Sikhs to follow like a deer or he is comparing here a fish, a patanga or a deer with Guru Arjan Dev Jee according to Surinder Jee's words "Bhai Gurdas Ji on Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Sache paatshah."

This is the fourth line.

ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਮਿਲਿ ਭਵਰ ਜਿਉ ਸੁਖ ਸੰਪਟ ਵਿਚਿ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ।
charan kaval mili bhavar jiu sukh sanpat vichi raini vihaanee|
Like the black bee meeting the lotus feet, in a comfort box spends night.

Perhaps Bhai Jee watched a black bee whole that night instead doing Naam Simran or perhaps it was Guru Arjan Dev Jee according to Surinder Jee.

**************

May I ask which Vaak from Gurdev becomes clearly to understand by reading these lines from Bhai Gurdas Jee?


Balbir Singh

 

[simpy]

gurU ijnw kw AMDulw cyly nwhI Twau ] (58-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
guroo jinaa kaa anDhulaa chaylay naahee thaa-o.
Those chaylaas, those devotees, whose spiritual teacher is blind, shall not find their place of rest.

 

[Archived_member2]

Is this your translation in Angrezee or a borrowed one? Since when 'Thaao' means the place of rest?

 

[simpy]

Guru Nanak Dev Ji at Mecca. (Bhai Gurdas Ji)
The Kazis and the Mullahs assembled to question Nanak on the subject of religion and God,
Who has extended His Creation and no one can fathom the secrets of Nature.
The muslim priests opened a book and asked him “ Who is superior – Hindu or Mussulman ?”
Baba Nanak answered “ Oh Hajis, without performance of good deeds, both Hindu and Muslims will lament
Both will be denied shelter in God’s court on the basis of their respective religions alone.
The colour of the flower called Kasumbh is washed away by water (so labels are fragile).
The followers of both religions are quarrelling, but both of them are equal in the eyes of God.”
The world has gone astray as it pursues the path of sin.

 

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

Pray tell, where did you find your translation for Vaar 24, Pauree 23?

Here is another idea.

Vaar 24 Pauri 23 Mingling of the light of Guru Arjan Dev with the eternal light

ਰਹਿਦੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਹੇਤੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ।
rahiday guru dareeaau vichi meen kuleen haytu nirabaanee|
Liberating the soul from the body, Guru (Arjan Dev) stabilized himself in the water of river as the fish remains in water.

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਪਤੰਗ ਜਿਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ।
darasanu daykhi patang jiu jotee andari joti samaanee|
As the moth throws itself into the flame, his light mingled with light of the Lord.

ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਮਿਰਗ ਜਿਉ ਭੀੜ ਪਈ ਚਿਤਿ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਆਣੀ ।
sabadu surati|iv mirag jiu bheerh paee chiti avaru n aanee|
Caring of for life, as the deer keeps its consciousness concentrated when in peril, the Guru also, when undergoing suffering kept none else except the Lord in its consciousness.

ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਮਿਲਿ ਭਵਰ ਜਿਉ ਸੁਖ ਸੰਪਟ ਵਿਚਿ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ।
charan kaval mili bhavar jiu sukh sanpat vichi raini vihaanee|
As the black bee remains enrapt in the petals of flower • enjoy fragrance, the Guru also spent night of suffering by keeping joyfully s concentration on the feet of Lord.

ਗੁਰੁ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਬਾਬੀਹੇ ਜਿਉ ਆਖ ਵਖਾਣੀ ।
guru upadaysu n visarai baabeehay jiu aakh vakhaanee|
The Guru like a rainbird spoke to his disciples that the teachings of the Guru should not be forgotten.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਪਿਰਮ ਰਸੁ ਸਹਜ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਿ ਜਾਣੀ ।
guramukhi sukh dhalu piram rasu sahaj samaadhi saadh sangi jaanee|
The pleasure it of the Gurmukh (Guru Arjan Dev) is the delight of love and he accepts the holy congregation as the natural state of meditation.

ਗੁਰ ਅਰਜਨ ਵਿਟਹੁ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੩॥
gur arajan vitahu kurabaanee ॥23॥
I am sacrifice unto Guru Arjan Dev

You are sorely out of alignment Balbir ji with the meaning of this pauree. This is a reflection on the grotesque martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev. The Guru did not live in the water, he died there. And the pauree is teling us than when he died he was stabliized -- HIS SOUL FOUND ITS LASTING PEACE. (Just as fish finds equilibrium in water, he found stability in the One.)

We know this is a reference to death because in the next line the moth flies into the flame (to its death), and then is merged with the flame, as the jyote of Guru Arjan Dev was with the jyote of the One. This is a very serious topic being discussed in the first two lines. I won't go on much longer about this unless I am forced to. This pauree brings me to tears.

Guru also, when undergoing suffering kept none else except the Lord in its consciousness. And then he was taken for a bath in the river and he died. Think about it.
​

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Quote "You are sorely out of alignment Balbir ji with the meaning of this pauree."
Your view and the Baabaa sitting beside maybe right.
I am blissful being sore when Lord wills to taste so. Please do not envy.

Quote "This is a reflection on the grotesque martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev."
Please explain. How did the translators come to this conclusion?
I have a small suggestion. Please have a conference with all your elite Baabaas before they answer.

**************

A poet who compares his Guru with a fish, a moth, a deer, a black bee and a rain bird do not know his Guru truly.
My enlightened Guru is free from all these Joonies and births all ready before He sacrifices His human body.

Perhaps Bhai Gurdas Jee has not heard his Guru singing.

Guru Arjan Dev is singing. Please listen.

keI jnm Bey kIt pqMgw ]
keé jnm BE kIt pqNgw ]
kaee janam bhae keet patangaa.

keI jnm gj mIn kurMgw ]
keé jnm gj mIn kurNgw ]
kaee janam gaj meen kurangaa. SGGS Ang 176-11

May I ask why Gurdev was blissful offering His Human Deh? Why did He not talk about getting freed in the births of a fish, a moth, deer . . . ?


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Quote "You are sorely out of alignment Balbir ji with the meaning of this pauree."
Your view and the Baabaa sitting beside maybe right.
I am blissful being sore when Lord wills to taste so. Please do not envy.

Envy who?

Quote "This is a reflection on the grotesque martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev."
Please explain. How did the translators come to this conclusion?
I have a small suggestion. Please have a conference with all your elite Baabaas before they answer.

Read the vaar again and give it some thought.
**************

A poet who compares his Guru with a fish, a moth, a deer, a black bee and a rain bird do not know his Guru truly.

It is a poem.

My enlightened Guru is free from all these Joonies and births all ready before He sacrifices His human body.

Which Guru is your enlightened Guru?

Perhaps Bhai Gurdas Jee has not heard his Guru singing.

Guru Arjan Dev is singing. Please listen.

Why should I? Who knows what translation you have for this?

keI jnm Bey kIt pqMgw ]
keé jnm BE kIt pqNgw ]
kaee janam bhae keet patangaa.

keI jnm gj mIn kurMgw ]
keé jnm gj mIn kurNgw ]
kaee janam gaj meen kurangaa. SGGS Ang 176-11

May I ask why Gurdev was blissful offering His Human Deh? Why did He not talk about getting freed in the births of a fish, a moth, deer . . . ?

Because he didn't.


Balbir Singh

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

You wrote "This is a reflection on the grotesque martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev."
The translation provided from the last line of this Vaar is "I am sacrifice unto Guru Arjan Dev."
Please clear it. Bhai Gurdas Jee has mentioned whose sacrifice (kurbaanee) here. Is it of Guru Arjan Dev Jee, Bhai Gurdas Jee, the translator or it the suggestion for every reader?

This is the provided translation of the line above the last one. "The pleasure it of the Gurmukh (Guru Arjan Dev) is the delight of love and he accepts the holy congregation as the natural state of meditation."
I do not understand why Gurmukh means Guru Arjan Dev here. Also, which words the interpreter can translate 'he accepts'.

Another line above this is translated "The Guru like a rainbird spoke to his disciples that the teachings of the Guru should not be forgotten."
Does Guru speaks like a rain bird with his disciples? I hope Sikhs have heard their Guru. They may confirm it.

The line above is also not translated right as no words from this line explain 'the Guru also spent night of suffering'.

**************

I feel preachers are wondering the so-called key from Bhai Gurdas Jee. They are not sure if this is the key and how to use it. They are not even able to translate its lines correctly and understand it.

**************

The true Gurus message and suggestion are simple and clear.


Balbir Singh

 

[simpy]

another Beautiful rachna from Bhai Gurdas Ji:

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਈ ।
No one has seen or known this creator, and rather people have remained indulged in the expansive delusions of prakriti (nature).
Line 5
ਸੋਹੰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਛਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਪੜਦਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ਸੁਣਾਈ ।
Not realising that soham parbrahm, the jiv is mistaken in understanding Him as a man (full of fallacies).
Line 6

[bhai Gurdas ji]

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

This is the difference.

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਈ ।
Bhai Gurdas says 'No one has seen or known this creator'.

Guru Amardaas Jee is singing Truth.
Aidstu Agocru AlKu inrMjnu so dyiKAw gurmuiK AwKI ]
Aidstu Agoc{ AlKu inrNjnu so dyiKAw gurmuiK AwKI ]
adistu agocharu alakhu niranjanu so daykhiaa gurmukhi aakhee. SGGS Ang 87-19

Listeners and readers are perhaps curious to know who has seen whom and told about HIM.

Balbir Singh

 

[simpy]

Some More from Bhai Gurdas Ji:


Baba meets the Sidhs at Sumer Parbat Pauris 28-31 (significant lines)
Pauri 28.1 Babe dithi pirathami navai khandi jithe taki ahi.
Pauri 28.2 Phir jai charhia sumer par sidh mandali drisati ayee.
Pauri 29.6 Sidh chhapi baithe parabati kaun jagat kau paar utara.
Pauri 29.7 Jogi gian vihunia nis dini angi lagaye chhara.
Pauri 29.8 Baajh Guru dubba jagu sara.
Pauri 30.1 Kali ayee kute muhi khaju hoia murdar gusayee.
Pauri 30.2 Rajey paapu kamavande ulati varh khet kau khai.
Pauri 30.6 Qazi Hoe risvati vadhi lai ke haku gavai.
Pauri 30.7 Isatri purakhai daam hitu bhavai ai kithaun jai.
Pauri 30.8 Varatia pap sabhas jug manhi.
Pauri 31.7 Sabadi jiti sidhi mandali kitosu apana panthu nirala. Baba Nanak toured the nine division of this earth and then went up the Sumer Mountain (Mount Kailash) and reached a party of Sidhs and asks them "as to why are they hiding, away from the public and the world. In their absence from the society, who would teach the public the path of truth? Jogis are without knowledge and are only applying ashes to their bodies. Without a Guru (Teacher) the whole world is drowning in ignorance. In Kaliyug the mentality of the people has become like that of a dog who is always seeking the dead to eat. Even the kings are corrupt as if the fence is destroying the crop fields. The Kazis whose duty is to dispense justice are taking bribes and giving false judgments. There is sin everywhere." Through dialogue Baba won over the Sidhs and proclaimed his unique True Panth.

 

[simpy]

Dear Aad Ji,

here is the most beautiful one Satpartap sent me this today.

Bhai Gurdas Ji:

I am ready to be cut into four pieces for him who accepts Guru and God as one.


Waheguru Rakha

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Surinder Jee!

Quote "Bhai Gurdas Ji: I am ready to be cut into four pieces for him who accepts Guru and God as one."
In my view, this translation cannot be correct.
This would explain that they did not cut Bhai Gurdas Jee into four pieces because nobody accepted Guru and God as one.
Please read the available translations carefully before trusting and quoting those on Internet.


Balbir Singh