What Is Karma In Buddhism And In Sikhi?

[Tejwant Singh]

Findingmyway ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please do not feel disappointed about not getting your queries about Confused ji's posts answered by him. I have tried the same and was not successful.

Confused ji has admitted himself in his post addressed to me that he did not come in this forum to learn which is a bit bewildering to say the least. I do not know any religion including Buddhism which I know something about that makes us refuse to learn.

Isn't interaction all about that?

As, you yourself must have noticed that Confused ji's posts are full of self contradictions. He is confused between truthiness and truthfulness. For him the Earth being round is more an illusion which he calls a conventional truth than a reality. His long list of so called ultimate truths makes no sense to me because ultimate means the end, no change. He fails to understand that there is no absolute truth but truth is absolute. Objective reality is very fluid. All continents were together once and that was real and now they are not which is also real. Many planets are formed and destroyed every moment of our lives which is also real.

The proofs of it are in the first pauri of Jap.

Confused ji has a lot to offer. He has a lot of treasure within but it is sad to notice that he is not able to do that. He wants to have the First and the Last word and gets a bit testy when challenged. I know Buddhism does not teach its followers to become snakes and sit on the treasure and guard it with tooth and nail. Gautam Buddha taught to the contrary.

Lastly, I would like to add that your name " Findingmyway" says it all and what a beautiful journey it is for you and for all of us who are privileged to learn from your open-mindedness and your thought process!!

You help many of us find our ways.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



All these famous proverbs which are commonly used in Punjabi in our everyday lives are justifications for what has happened. They do not lead us anywhere and are based on Hinduism and Islam because Hell and Heaven are parts and parcels of Karma and reincarnation.

In fact, there are many verses in Gurbani that reject all and some more of these sayings.

Do you think our 5th and 9th Gurus and all the other Sikhs who sacrificed their lives and fought against tyranny and injustice uttered these words? "Puranian bughtey hovan gae", i.e. "We are paying for the past"; "Patah nahin kihdi sajah sanu mil gaee", i.e. "Don't know whose bad actions we are paying for".

We know they did not because they believed and lived in Hukum and Bhana.

So, these sayings mean nothing to a Sikh, to the contrary. There is also another saying " rab toun dariah kar"- be fearful of God which also does not reflect Gurmat values that teach us rather to be God loving. In fact I wrote a little piece about it and I would request Spnadmin ji to send it to you.

Sikhi rejects karmas of previous lives because it rejects reincarnation.

Sikhi is a very pragmatic way of living. Gurbani teaches us to breed goodness within and make this world a better place for others as our Gurus did for us. It teaches us to leave the footprints of goodness for others to follow irrespective of anyone's hue, creed or faith.

Lastly, Sikhi teaches us to become the flowers of the Gurmat garden so that we are able to emit the scent of goodness in all directions sans bias.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh ji thanks for the reply.

My object in citing the proverbs was to indicate how in every day life Karam/Karma is so emphasized by the masses in Sikhism.

It is not my belief, endorsement or conclusion for these to be true to Sikhi or our Gurus teachings.

I personally do believe in a few of the things in the following Post,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/34243-five-reasons-you-wont-die.html#post140863

I much rather participate and get some comments in that thread as well.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Archived_member14]

Tejwant ji,

Confused ji has a lot to offer. He has a lot of treasure within but it is sad to notice that he is not able to do that. He wants to have the First and the Last word and gets a bit testy when challenged. I know Buddhism does not teach its followers to become snakes and sit on the treasure and guard it with tooth and nail. Gautam Buddha taught to the contrary.

Very good! You have just opened the way for different kind of discussion. One in which I need not state that I come from a Buddhist perspective and you do not have to say that you come from a Sikh one. I am going to initiate a new thread for this purpose.

I will start with stating my understanding about ultimate reality / truth vs. conventional reality / truth and illusion and what it is to be deluded. It should be expected that the use of certain words from the English language will be inadequate; therefore you should ask for clarification if some of it appears odd rather than insist on the meaning that you are familiar with. And it should also be expected that my power of recall is far from perfect, so I'd likely leave some aspects out of the definitions.

We can also discuss what it is to ‘learn’, and whether it does really happen when someone thinks that he is going through the process. Whatever impression you get about my character, do not make any moral judgments, we can do without such unnecessary distraction. I struggle with language, and it appears that my vocabulary is very small as compared to your own. I consult the dictionary very often when writing my messages, but sometimes I forget to and use words whose meaning I have only a vague idea of. Therefore again, ask for clarification and hesitate from judging so quickly.

Thanks, and hope to see you there.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Confused ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Very good! You have just opened the way for different kind of discussion. One in which I need not state that I come from a Buddhist perspective and you do not have to say that you come from a Sikh one.

I am afraid you are mistaken and totally incorrect in your assumption. If you read your posts again, you declared your Buddhist side from the get go. You talked nothing but Buddhism. You came to this Sikh forum knowing that most of us are Sikhs. In fact, my religion on top of my every post says -Sikhi.

So, your being Buddhist and interacting with Sikhs is not the point of discussion or contention. We welcome and interact with peoples from different cultures, backgrounds and religions. The proof is in the discussions on the wide ranges of topics that you can find them here for your own education.

The contention comes when you showed your real desires and goals to make us learn about Buddhism but under the same token, you also declared that your goal was not to learn about Sikhism.

Your being an intelligent person with lots of insights should know that no religion teaches that and your wide stance on that is nothing but a self defeating prophecy.

Life is not a one way street. If it were and if one claims that it is, then either one starts talking to oneself or to the walls or hits the dead end in any direction he/she turns to.

I am going to initiate a new thread for this purpose.

I am looking forward to it.

Whatever impression you get about my character, do not make any moral judgments, we can do without such unnecessary distraction.

Confused ji, I am not here to judge any one's morals or character. It is not in me to do that. Having said that, I love good debates, exchange of ideas from which I learn a lot. This is the only way to be a Sikh, a learner, a student, a seeker.

Thanks for changing your mind and coming back. Will look forward to your insights.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant Singh ji thanks for the reply.

My object in citing the proverbs was to indicate how in every day life Karam/Karma is so emphasized by the masses in Sikhism.

It is not my belief, endorsement or conclusion for these to be true to Sikhi or our Gurus teachings.

I personally do believe in a few of the things in the following Post,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/34243-five-reasons-you-wont-die.html#post140863

I much rather participate and get some comments in that thread as well.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the clarifications. Much appreciated. I have read the article you mentioned above. I have read many essays by the authour and like what he writes.

I have a suggestion to make. As, you have also read the article and identify yourself with it, it would be a good idea if you gave your thoughts on it which will give others the chance to also pitch in.

I am looking forward to your input.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the clarifications. Much appreciated. I have read the article you mentioned above. I have read many essays by the authour and like what he writes.

I have a suggestion to make. As, you have also read the article and identify yourself with it, it would be a good idea if you gave your thoughts on it which will give others the chance to also pitch in.

I am looking forward to your input.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh ji can you make something out of the following post I wrote,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/inter...-is-karma-in-buddhism-sikhi-2.html#post141441

It tries to show we are inter-related to the past to others, present and also how it continues in time into the future. In a way one way or another in perpetuity in small or big ways to all, which could be called "Ek noor ...." as in the following,

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=149216095102269

The relationships/incidentals are unrestricted but as developed/happening/developing to be any of physical, observable, non-observable, ethereal and everything in between.

Confused ji's comments have been related to Karma as it Happens from what I can understand and also relate to in the above! The only problems I run into is the pre-ordained line of thinking in general and a complete soul as an entity to stay as one versus development of new souls with parts from all past, present and future as it may.

None of this violates the,

As you sow, so shall you reap

line of thinking that few have put down as the "Sikhi" complete view. The above simply defines the environ that the "As you sow, so shall you reap" operates in.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Archived_member14]

Tejwant ji,

I am afraid you are mistaken and totally incorrect in your assumption. If you read your posts again, you declared your Buddhist side from the get go. You talked nothing but Buddhism. You came to this Sikh forum knowing that most of us are Sikhs. In fact, my religion on top of my every post says -Sikhi.

No Tejwant ji, you are at this point projecting those labels. True, up until now I have referred back to the Buddha as being the source of all my understanding and you have also said that you are Sikh. However even then, it was never about “Buddhism”, but the “Truth”. Never at any point was I promoting Buddhism, but rather what I understand to be Truth.

I never considered myself to be standing for Buddhism; the only thing is that I realize that no one other than the Buddha could have arrived at what he did and teach it. And the thing that binds me to Buddhism is the impression that *this is the Truth*.

And it is not like I come here as a Buddhist to debate against Sikhs. I don’t even believe that anyone here is consistently Sikh. I speak from an understanding about differing “views” as reflected in people’s statements and not any label they like to attach to. In this regard, I consider everyone to be a mix bag of many different views regardless whether they think themselves Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu or Muslim.

But of course, of all views, I see only one as being right. And this should explain why I don’t think to learn “from” other religions and philosophies and that at best I can only learn “about” them, and this in order to identify the dominating view. Indeed more or less the same thing happens when I’m faced with Buddhists coming from differing interpretations. I am never impressed when they quote the scriptures given my perception of the underlying view they come in with, as being wrong. And btw, I did say that I was ready to learn ‘about’ Sikhism, only that I wasn’t ready to read long articles and discussions. And besides, although I don’t expect to learn from other teachings, I do learn something from the interaction *each time*, no more and no less than anyone else.

Up until now none of all this was apparent, therefore understandably anyone would conclude that my participation here was that of a Buddhist talking to Sikhs. And admittedly, I too often think the whole situation to be as such. But believe me; I’d rather not have such a thing influence me. It is self-defeating as you say, but for reasons which include those things I said to you when I finally decided to quit this discussion.

When you commented on the ‘round earth’ idea, I took this as moving out of the discussion between a Buddhist and a Sikh onto between two people interested in understanding ‘reality’. No doubt that you will come in with your own past conditioning, and I with mine, how could we expect otherwise. However I suggest that we avoid steering things back into that old territory where we label this Buddhist and that Sikh. It should be a situation where neither of us will be compelled to defend anything. And who knows, in spite of what I keep saying, I may end up learning something “from” you. ;-)

With this I go on to that other thread.

 

[whatiskarma]

A man called Sam Han Lee wrote this in about 1999 and he died in 2008, It was his mission for anybody to read his teachings so there is no copyright. Anyway he had a lump on his forehead which he claimed was the ‘Third Eye’ which he claims appeared after Enlightenment ? He also wrote more about What is Life ? What is Destiny ? and mountains of other stuff.


What Is Karma ?
Cause and Effect of Karma

There is a word "Karma", passed on from the past, but nowadays it is rare to find someone who knows correctly what Karma is. What do we call Karma and what is Karma ? Karma is something that exists in the source which moves oneself, let’s have a look carefully how the Karma which is in the source, is made. The Karma is made by things that happened to you. Then how can things that happened to you make this Karma ? It is important to understand that. This means that something you did is saved in your consciousness. Now we have to look at nature in more detail. Every phenomenon which appears in nature,everything that happened in them is saved in their seed. Human being is a subject with a consciousness. Human beings save everything what they did in their consciousness.

This consciousness works as a spirit and when the spirit comes to meet death it remains independent by separating from the body. When this consciousness which was in the spirit disappears it will be reborn as life soon. But just because the consciousness disappeared it does not mean things that happened in the past will disappear. Even if the consciousness disappeared, everything which happened to you will be latent in that. So these complex things which are latent in you will continuously cause reaction. The habit of Karma is trying to repeatedly keep things that happened to you forever, and that is Karma. There are two meanings which allow everything to exist in the world. The world exists by these two meanings.

1) Reincarnation
Reincarnation means that everything is repeated. Something which exists continuously causes the phenomenon of repetition, past present and future are spinning endlessly. So our life exists by this law and every creature is repeatedly being born and dying by the law of cause and effect. If something was born in the world but does not disappear by itself but tries to keep itself to exist. Something that happened to you has the same meaning. So if something is saved in your consciousness it does not disappear but it continuously acts by receiving the influence of it. According to what happened to you, present and future life will be different. So things in yourself which will stay forever will be different, that's why to make a relationship is something that people must be very careful of. When a person makes a relationship with a bad thing that will produce a bad thing but when a person makes a relationship with a good thing that will produce a good thing.

2) The Law of Cause and Effect
This is also the Law of Cause and Effect. Karma will exist in you by the cause and effect. As long as this Karma exists a human cannot be able to be free from the control of this Karma. If someone has a big Karma and if the person tries to live a good life and to do good things rather than not becoming a good self will ruin others as well and by doing things to become a good self will always make oneself distressed.

Because there should be a good source in yourself but if there is not that good source it is rare to occur good things in you. At this point only Enlightenment can influence you. Without Enlightenment you cannot disobey the direction of Karma which is in you. We can see phenomenon like this from our surroundings easily and it is very important for the life of human beings. Therefore nobody can get out of these phenomena without Enlightenment. The law of nature is strict. In mathematics two plus two cannot be one or five, things which exist are not changeable in truth as well as mathematics it never changes. That is why people say that the most important thing for living all our period of life is Enlightenment.

If someone does a good thing and makes a good result of 60% but makes a mistake of 40% with ignorance while the person was not aware, in this situation the person can control emotions and wrong temper and can fix something which is wrong if the person tries. But if someone makes Karma which is the result of ignorance by making a mistake of 60 % but good Karma of 40% in this situation it is very hard to do a good thing because the power of big Karma interferes rather than good self when the person is doing something. The reason why there are many problems that appear in our society is because the society doesn't accept about how Karma is made by things that happened to someone in the past.

How does Karma appear ?
Karma appears by things in you. How is Karma made ? Karma is made by words and actions,
Karma can be made by actions and words. What kind of Karma is made by words ? When someone says things that the person doesn't know then that will be the Karma. Telling lies is something that ruins oneself and others too. This is Karma which is made by words. That is why disciples who were taught rightly by Buddha wrote at the beginning of the script "I heard like this"

Written by Tathagata
Sam Han Lee
Deceased August 2008

 

[WorldReligions]

I am interested in Sikhism. But karma is one of the few things that confuses me. I have a hard time believing that disabilities are punishment for sin/wrong doings. What counts as a disability? Blindness or deafness is obvious but what about ADHD or chronic headache disorders? Are people with ADHD disabled or just a personality trait? And caused by sin or a test?
It might help to explain that I have an abrahaic background (believe in resurrection and judgment etc). I also have multiple disabilities with some special skills caused by my disabilities.