What Is Wrong With Halal Now?

[Ambarsaria]

Quran: Surah 6:121.
Eat not of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath not been pronounced:

If were a muslim I would interpret that stanza as reminding me to say grace or be grateful for what I eat even couldn't they just pronounce Allah before eating a meal.

Sinner veer ji you are little confused compared to confused ji who is usually less confused compared to most including yours truly :grinningsingh:

Many times, if not most times, the person doing Muslim slaughter may not even eat any of the food that such has so created. The question becomes that somehow the act of killing is going to be done in the name of God so nobody feels guilty doing so.

This creates a behavior issue. Beheading of humans! Well it is done in the name of God or Allah by some Al-Qaida or such group or the Taliban hence no inhumanity is felt or conveyed. Desecration of dead bodies of enemy troops or Kaffirs (almost all not of the Book people). The Sikh history of tortures by Muslims. Same is done to stone people to death in Iran today.

Are these things related, I sure believe these are!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Behavioural actions are learnt by habitual repetition...a very personal example. In our fmaily we have 8 humans and 8 dogs. Now among us..we have some humans who simply cant bear to see the dogs watching us eat ice cream..cake..barfee..even daily roti etc...and we share it all..saying..here one piece for ME..one for you..one for you..one for you..and so on....and we also have one in our family..who as a child was raised in a single mum fmaily and deprived of such things..all she could do was watch the richer neighbour kids eat whole apples and chicken drumsticks...so what she does when a dog approaches..is kick it away....SHOOOOOOOOOOO bad boy..go away...and you wont beleive it..now the dogs also wont even bother to stick their ears up..much less wag their tails and go rushing..they know they wont get a bone but a kick...whereas the rest of us dont even have to call them...they all line up ina circle and step up forward as their name is called one by one..one Bite for ME..one for Tiger..one for Lovely..One for Angel..and so on..no rush..no push..calmly playing musical chairs !! AFTER a life time together..and almost 4 years of having these dogs...we are unable to change the character of this one family member... our Present day Propserity/abundance of resources/unlimited food and variety...loses to the "hunger" of 50 years ago....!!:interestedkudi:

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Gyani Ji Sometimes a human acts more like a dog and vice versa and maybe you can take a person out of poverty but you can't take the poverty out of the person.

Ambarsaria Veera I was born confused but if hallal is based upon that quote it is not the only interpretation for what is written and not a great basis for employing 'special' people in slaughter houses, why not say Gods name later like when preparing the meat, as all it says is pronounced?

 

[BhagatSingh]

why not say Gods name later like when preparing the meat, as all it says is pronounced?

It's obvious isn't it?
You won't feel guilty if you eat it in the name of God. You won't see the suffering of thousands who go hungry, while you hog everything in your plate for yourself. That leads to poverty!

Lol

The issue is desensitization, not "doing things in the name of God". There is nothing wrong with halal meat/slaughter/eating/in the name of God, what is wrong is that we have desensitized ourselves to any understanding of it.

Backing up a little bit to the beginning posts:
What deeper feelings, emotions, thoughts, realizations are the Abrahamic religions trying to arouse in an individual with the seemingly outrageous things they say? This is important as we quickly point out deeper truths in Sikhism but only seem to grasp superficial truths of other religions.
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What does it really mean to sacrifice anything to God? What is the essence of sacrifice?
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What does it mean to sacrifice to God as a result of seeing one's own sins?
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What does it mean to say a Sikh him/herself is a sacrifice to God?
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In what manners are food and God related and unrelated?
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What does it really mean to go through something like this:

I now intend to be vegetarian on Mondays and Tuesdays and will eat Jhatka on Wednesdays and Thursdays I will fast Friday to Sunday.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Bhagat Veer Ji, Thankyou I understand now, I will incorporate some hallal too ,can you suggest on what day I eat Kurehit?

 

[findingmyway]

After all is said and done, if halal meat is not available to muslims, then they may eat non halal meat.

If this is the case then why do Muslims create a fuss that they can't eat halal? Why is so much of this country becoming halal? Not all Muslims prescribe to this sentence as many of my muslim friends refuse to eat non-halal.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Way Ji maybe for the same reason Sikhs strike up a fuss if they can't eat jhatka !Most muslims don't really know why they do something ,nor do the Sikhs there are just alot of sheep out there !Ours are dressed as lions but all follow eachother like sheep!

 

[spnadmin]

findingmyway ji

It is right there on the link I posted.

Reference: Saud Twaigery and Diana Spillman, An Introduction to Moslem Dietary Laws, Food Technology, February, 1989,

It gets even more confusing. Some sources say slaughter may be by any one of the people of the Book. That would include Jews and Christians.

I too am banging my head. Political visibility? Political identity? For a fact...there is a restaurant nearby me where I eat and is owned by a Palestinian Arab. A very nice man. I asked him if he purchased and served only halal meat. His answer... only on special occasions by special order. The over head is too high and it is too bothersome to have both kinds.

As i type I am thinking. In a country under Sharia law, halal would be mandated as a political matter. Religion and politics are not separate but intertwined. Sharia law is imposed, minorities have to find their place. In a country having a large or growing muslim minority, halal would be something to lobby for. So that a minority religion,Islam, would have its place among decision makers, and would not have to find its place among other religions. Two and maybe more kinds of hue and cry.

In answer to your question, here is another question. Do you think the politicos are courting votes? Are the corporations doing market research and deciding where the present and future consumer markets will be? Sold in volume, halal can be more profitable than suiting each and every religious group. That is basically what my Arab neighbor was telling me. He sees no profit margin having both halal and non halal. If the percentages shift, he may change his mind.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

findingmyway ji

It is right there on the link I posted.

Reference: Saud Twaigery and Diana Spillman, An Introduction to Moslem Dietary Laws, Food Technology, February, 1989,

It gets even more confusing. Some sources say slaughter may be any one of the people of the Book. That would include Jews and Christians.

I too and banging my head. Political visibility? Political identity? For a fact...there is a restaurant nearby me where I eat and is owned by a Palestinian Arab. A very nice man. I asked him if he purchased and served only halal meat. His answer... only on special occasions by special order. The over head is too high and it is too bothersome to have both kinds.

As i type I am thinking. In a country under Sharia law, halal would be mandated as a political matter. Religion and politics are not separate but intertwined. Sharia law is imposed, minorities have to find their place. In a country having a large or growing muslim minority, halal would be something to lobby for. So that a minority religion,Islam, would have its place among decision makers, and would not have to find its place among other religions. Two and maybe more kinds of hue and cry.

Malaysia is NOT under Shariah Law...its under the Constitutional laws left behind by the Departing British....BUT our POLITICAL SYSTEM is under Majority Muslim rule ............and thus ALL non PORK meat is mandatory HALLAL. No non-hallal lamb, beef, deer chicken meat etc can be imported or sold. ALL Supermarkets, fast food chains like mcdonald kfc etc serve ONLY HALLAL. Most Restaurants have HALLAL certification prominently displayed. (ONly exception are solely Chinese pork serving restaurants)
PORK sellers in wet markets (severely restricted to Majority Chinese residential areas only) have separate stalls selling PORK and these are either very far away and separated or otherwise WALLED UP to be out of sight of muslims who may be offended. On the otherhand cow carcasses are openly displayed and non-muslims are expected to just ignore that and squeeze through !!
Thus of "necessity" all food caterers even for Sikh weddings etc serve only Hallal Chicken/lamb...take it or leave it. Those who sell fresh chickens at wet markets have to employ Hallal certified Muslims to slaughter the live chicken...and they will NOT "Jhatka" for you even if you require it ( the old days the Chinese stall owner would do that for SINGH....but not NOW becasue ONLY Muslim butchers can be employed at such stalls...This was allowed to happen gradually over time as the Chinese etc dont actually bother whether their chicken etc is hallal or not...to them its no difference....and the Hindus are majority vegetarian or too poor to afford chicken anyway..so its again a non-issue for them too...leaving the Sikhs alone...for the Sikhs.........

The Only alternative is to go for PORK/wild Boar or buy live chickens and bring them home.

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

I think you are describing yet another 3rd categpry. The tyranny of the majority. Thanks for pointing that out. Religious rules are used by a political mass as a kind of power source to impose its will. Not that different from stating that a political majority is doing God's work even if the work that is being done is done mindlessly, or is barbaric. This category is the category where religion is corrupted by politics. The corruption may be a marriage of convenience because the members of the political mass are of the same religion.

What can a minority do if there are no constitutional structures to stop a stampede by the majority? A passive response makes a lot of sense on a rational plane if there are ont barriers to tyrany of the majority, or the people and processes that are there to prevent the tyranny, and protest the minorities, either will not work, or are useless.

Does much of this boil down to an old Wall Street adage? "Follow the money." Then you will know what will happen next.

 

[palaingtha]

The history and idea of us rejecting halal was a symbolic gesture against the forced acceptance of Islamlic principles or faith.

When Punjab is now ruled by a Hindu Government who are we rebelling against when the rulers are vegetarian?

How can it symbolise anything now , no one is being coerced into eating it and we are not ruled by the Mughals.

It's like we are trying to say "We the Sikhs don't accept this" when no one is even saying you must accept this atleast in India?

The telos or the essential purpose is what is important,when the situation we are in has changed completely, what are we standing up against now?

Today you are advising Sikhs to eat Halal (Muslim way of slaughter) meat, next day you may advise to accept Quoran since GOD is one for the entire Humanity. No Sir, we must adhere to the Hukam of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, which is as per the Booklet, (Sikh Maryada)

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veer Ji
Let me qualify this in Montaignes words that "everything I say is by way of discourse and nothing by way of advise"

Let our main course be of iron and our 'five a day 'and say what we must say but don't forget to play.

 

[palaingtha]

Veer Ji
Let me qualify this in Montaignes words that "everything I say is by way of discourse and nothing by way of advise"

Let our main course be of iron and our 'five a day 'and say what we must say but don't forget to play.

Let me not hear that do not appeal to me, even if SAAG that contains Iron, for if one takes too many times, he will excrete Iron Rods! hahaha

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I have been thinking about Halal meat and the rule of SRM for us not to eat it. There is no mention of Kosher meat though although both serve the same to please some god.In fact the word Kosher is used interchangeably all over the western world meaning clean or better food,e.g. salt etc etc. They have cleverly taken out the slaughter of animals to please their god from the word kosher and made it more acceptable. I am sure many of us have eaten sandwiches from delis in NY and most of them are kosher.

Slaughtering animals with the air guns is a common practice for most of the meat killed in the world that we consume. Jatka is only if we do the killing ourselves.

Now coming back to my point about Halal and Kosher meat, it is their problem/guilt/fear factor with their deities to please them which has nothing to do with us as Sikhs.

After this thought, I do not find any problem with eating either Halal or Kosher and it is only me.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Awakeand Singh]

Halal slaughter is accompanied by the exclamation Alah Akhbar! This is also called out and has been for centuries in war, when muslims slayed their enemies. It is used during executions, such as stonings.

The use of it in halal slaughter calls forth remembrance of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham in the Jewish Testament...To prove his faith Abraham was ordered by "God" to sacrifice his son. That is where the ritual sacrifice comes in. Muslims consider Abraham one of their prophets.

Today the problem redoubles because in some countries Halal is being used exclusively in restaurants and schools to appease muslim minorities... and non muslims do not have a similar choice. Obviously is expensive to accommodate everyone, yet special consideration is given for halal. Neither observant Jews nor baptized Sikhs are permitted Halal. This causes problems

NOTE: NO SUCH EXCLAMATION ACCOMPANIES KOSHER SLAUGHER AND JEWS DO NOT CONSIDER KOSHER SLAUGHTER EITHER RITUAL OR CONNECTED TO THE SACRIFICE OF ABRAHAM.

And, in any case, may I point out that Muslims believe that it was Isma'il (Yishmael) - and not Yitzhak (Isaac) - who was brought as an offering.

 

[WorldReligions]

I don’t know where you live but apparently I should move there. Because I am muslim and halal food is nonexistent. I have given up and eat kosher food. It is close enough I guess (but only sort of)
Jews don’t consider kosher food ritual?! See My Jewish Learning and chabad.com! The orthodox jews most certainly consider kosher food a ritual. I don’t know about the reform or reconstructionist jews.
Also why no halal food? Because it’s blessed?

 

[WorldReligions]

If this is the case then why do Muslims create a fuss that they can't eat halal? Why is so much of this country becoming halal? Not all Muslims prescribe to this sentence as many of my muslim friends refuse to eat non-halal.

Well it’s a little more complicated than that. If only it were that easy.
I am a muslim by the way.
Options:
1. eat halal food
2. eat kosher food
3. eat vegan
4. start to starve to death-then “haram becomes halal” out of necessity
You see, waiting to starve to death so I can eat non-halal food rather than eat halal food is kind of extreme (and stupid).
As for why more restaurants are serving halal food in your country, I don’t know because I don’t know what country you live in.

 

[WorldReligions]

To complicate matters for everyone, halal food is sometimes not labeled halal and halal food actually isn’t halal. At least according to a study done in the US

 

[WorldReligions]

Rabbi Jonathan Romaine
Kosher meat is killed by a “swift, deep incision with a sharp knife across the neck, cutting the carotid arteries, causing the blood pressure in the brain to fall to zero and for the animal to loose consciousness almost instantaneously.

It is for this reason that Muslims are allowed to eat kosher meat if halal is not available. However, Jews are not allowed to eat halal meat – because a blessing to Allah is said over each animal before it is slaughtered. It means, though, that if one was in a situation where the only food available was halal meat and ordinary meat, the former would be preferable (for Jews).”

 

[WorldReligions]

Rabbi Jonathan Romaine
Kosher meat is killed by a “swift, deep incision with a sharp knife across the neck, cutting the carotid arteries, causing the blood pressure in the brain to fall to zero and for the animal to loose consciousness almost instantaneously.

It is for this reason that Muslims are allowed to eat kosher meat if halal is not available. However, Jews are not allowed to eat halal meat – because a blessing to Allah is said over each animal before it is slaughtered. It means, though, that if one was in a situation where the only food available was halal meat and ordinary meat, the former would be preferable (for Jews).”

So halal meat is not any more cruel than regular meat but it is blessed.