What Will Happen If I Put My Faith In Him And Pray Him To Change My Orientation ?

[Ishna]

And yet, here on panna 411, we are told to sing praises without words.

This has got to me one of my all-time favourtie shabads. It sums up so much of what guides my "Sikh faith".

ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ ਘਰੁ ੨
Asa Measure. 1st Guru. Ashtpadis.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
There is but One God. By True Guru's grace He is attained.

ਉਤਰਿ ਅਵਘਟਿ ਸਰਵਰਿ ਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਵੈ ॥
Descending the difficult precipice of sin, man should bathe in the tank of virtue,

ਬਕੈ ਨ ਬੋਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ॥
and without uttering and saying anything, should sing God's praise.

ਜਲੁ ਆਕਾਸੀ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥
Like water in the atmosphere, he should remain absorbed in the Lord.

ਰਸੁ ਸਤੁ ਝੋਲਿ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
Churning the true pleasures, he ought to secure the Supreme Name Nectar

ਐਸਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਅਭ ਮੋਰੇ ॥
Hear thou such a Divine Comprehension, O my mind.

ਭਰਿਪੁਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਭ ਠਉਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
The Lord is fully abiding in all the places. Pause.

ਸਚੁ ਬ੍ਰਤੁ ਨੇਮੁ ਨ ਕਾਲੁ ਸੰਤਾਵੈ ॥
Death agonises him not, who makes truthfulness and his fast religious vow,

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਕਰੋਧੁ ਜਲਾਵੈ ॥
and burns his wrath with True Guru's hymns.

ਗਗਨਿ ਨਿਵਾਸਿ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਲਗਾਵੈ ॥
He abides in the tenth gate and assumes the meditative mood.

ਪਾਰਸੁ ਪਰਸਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
By coming in contact with the Guru, the philosopher stone, he obtains the supreme status.

ਸਚੁ ਮਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਤਤੁ ਬਿਲੋਵੈ ॥
The mortal should churn the essence of righteousness for his soul's sake.

ਸੁਭਰ ਸਰਵਰਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਧੋਵੈ ॥
And he should bathe in the brimful tank (of the Name), to wash off his filth.

ਜੈ ਸਿਉ ਰਾਤਾ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
Man becomes like Him, with whom he is imbued.

ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ॥੩॥
What the Creator Himself does, that comes to pass.

ਗੁਰ ਹਿਵ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਬੁਝਾਵੈ ॥
Through the ice like cold Guru, one should extinguish him mind's fire.

ਸੇਵਾ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਬਿਭੂਤ ਚੜਾਵੈ ॥
He should apply the ashes of Lord's hearty service to his body.

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਸਹਜ ਘਰਿ ਆਵੈ ॥
Let his living in the home of peace be his religious sect.

ਨਿਰਮਲ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਦੁ ਵਜਾਵੈ ॥੪॥
The pure Gurbani be his playing upon the flute.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਸਾਰਾ ॥
The Divine wisdom in the mind is the sublime supreme Nectar,

ਤੀਰਥ ਮਜਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ॥
and the Contemplation on Gurbani the bath holy places.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਥਾਨੁ ਮੁਰਾਰਾ ॥
The worship consists in vision the Lord's abode within.

ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ ॥੫॥
God is the Blender of human light with the Divine Light.

ਰਸਿ ਰਸਿਆ ਮਤਿ ਏਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥
He who has the wisdom of loving the One Lord, is delighted with the Divine bliss.

ਤਖਤ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਪੰਚ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
Such a great man merges into the Lord who occupies the throne.

ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ ਖਸਮ ਰਜਾਇ ॥
In Obedience to Lord's will, he toils in Divine service.

ਅਵਿਗਤ ਨਾਥੁ ਨ ਲਖਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥੬॥
The Inscrutable Lord cannot be comprehended.

ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਉਪਜੈ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
As the lotus is begotten in water and remains away from water,

ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥
similarly the Lord's light is fully contained in the world ocean.

ਕਿਸੁ ਨੇੜੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਆਖਾ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
Whom should I call close to, and whom far from God?

ਨਿਧਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ॥੭॥
Beholding Him just present, I sing the praise of God, the Treasure of virtue.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Within and without there is none other than God

ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਫੁਨਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
Whatever pleases Him, that ultimately, comes to pass.

ਸੁਣਿ ਭਰਥਰਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
Hear thou, O Bharthari (yogi), Nanak says this after due deliberation.

ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੮॥੧॥
The pure Name alone is my mainstay.​

 

[Harry Haller]

When did I say that god's existence is merely to please me . Universe doesn't revolve around me !

read your posts again, if you cannot see it, I cannot help you, you have been spoilt beyond
belief, and now your parents are unable to spoil you, its gods turn.

But god is my eternal father , and so is yours and every1 else's .

nope your goddie is not my eternal father, your goddie is some hybrid deity that you have created yourself to bless you with your demands. I do not have an eternal father, only Ek Ong Kar.

I ask god for things as a child asks for things from his father , but if a kid refuses to ask his father for things, then is that child necessarily a good one ? that child is you !

And I am proud to be that child, if in your head, children are only good if they ask their father for things, I hope you one day have very good children. I tend to ask my dad what I can do for him, weird to you probably, thinking of someone else's needs other than your own, try it one day.

Nope . At a time when I was crazy , I have heard rebukes from SGGS as well and it surprisingly fitted my personal state at that time !

reassurance, rebukes, do you ever do animal sacrifices?

Guru Arjan Dev ji was sent with a mission ! a mission of whole mankind , to compile SGGS ! and when the evil people asked him to modify the baani or face torture, he chose the obvious option . Why are you even comparing me or yourself to pancham paatshah is beyond me !

your right, why don't you buy a nice picture of the event, stick it on a wall, I am now getting your version of Sikhism, its all making sense, hey did you see the full moon the other day?

actually thats not intentional . I just quote from the srigranth.org site and paste the default translation I get

given that there are many translations, why is it then that you quote the english one that you have pasted? why not the other one? in fact you have done this on many occasions, so I guess your relying on the english translations, its easily proven, so do be careful how you answer...

I don't live my life by them ! I know gurmukhi and only read the gurmukhi part . Translation is for you . I never said you're an idiot

I can prove otherwise by quoting your posts, I do not think you know Gurmukhi at all.

the only person blowing smoke here is you ! I am not lost . Whatever I state, I always have gurbani on my side !

well if you spend long enough looking for quotes to back up your thought process, seems a bit pointless to me.

again who said this ? where did gurus said this ? where did gurus say "be yourself, be your best and you're sorted and god likes you that way?
CAN YOU QUOTE FROM GURBANI where its said that WAY ?

let us stick with the statement that god loves to be praised and that is what he likes the most, firstly, god is not a person in Sikhism, so he does not like or dislike anything, it also says this in Mool Manter, no enemies, no hate, Sikhism is about complete acceptance, it is the Islamic God that likes to be praised, but then given your view of God seems to be a mish mash of Hinduism, Christianity and Islam, that does not really surprise me.

"Guru Granth Sahib does speak , but only the ones who have 'bhaavna' (faith and love for SGGS) in their hearts can hear it speak" - Bhai Pinderpal Singh ji

sorry, I have no interest in your collection of Baba's that you quote from, it means nothing,

And that's it ! I am done with ya god bless

another one! God bless, what is this, some magic mantra that means you can write what you want, or say what you want, or think what you want, provided you put the obligatory 'god bless' at the end?

 

[Seeker2013]

read your posts again, if you cannot see it, I cannot help you, you have been spoilt beyond
belief, and now your parents are unable to spoil you, its gods turn.

u crack me up at times ! anyways yes I am spoilt because my guru is affluent enough !
on a serious note, my dad said the same kind of things to me when I got the job .
Dad : "You wouldn't have got it loser if it weren't for the placement guy's mercy"
Me : "actually it was god acting through the placement guy"
Dad : *rolls eyes* god didn't do anything , placement guy did !

And then one fine sunday, I take the question in my heart to guru ji "Why my father says like this ? did you not help me? please solve my confusion guru ji because my father has sown seeds of skepticism in my heart as well"

And the true guru as usual replies back :


ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
धनासरी महला ५ ॥
Ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 5.
Dhanaasaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਸੋਈ ਸੁਘੜੁ ਸੁਜਾਨੀ ॥
जिस का तनु मनु धनु सभु तिस का सोई सुघड़ु सुजानी ॥
Jis kā ṯan man ḏẖan sabẖ ṯis kā so▫ī sugẖaṛ sujānī.
Body, mind, wealth and everything belong to Him; He alone is all-wise and all-knowing.


ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਤਉ ਬਿਧਿ ਨੀਕੀ ਖਟਾਨੀ ॥੧॥
तिन ही सुणिआ दुखु सुखु मेरा तउ बिधि नीकी खटानी ॥१॥
Ŧin hī suṇi▫ā ḏukẖ sukẖ merā ṯa▫o biḏẖ nīkī kẖatānī. ||1||
He listens to my pains and pleasures, and then my condition improves. ||1||


ਜੀਅ ਕੀ ਏਕੈ ਹੀ ਪਹਿ ਮਾਨੀ ॥
जीअ की एकै ही पहि मानी ॥
Jī▫a kī ekai hī pėh mānī.
My soul is satisfied with the One Lord alone.


ਅਵਰਿ ਜਤਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਹੇ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਤਿਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अवरि जतन करि रहे बहुतेरे तिन तिलु नही कीमति जानी ॥ रहाउ ॥
Avar jaṯan kar rahe bahuṯere ṯin ṯil nahī kīmaṯ jānī. Rahā▫o.
People make all sorts of other efforts, but they have no value at all. ||Pause||


I knew in my heart that the guru replied me in pangti number ||1|| . "He listens to my pains and pleasures , and then my condition improves" .
Guru was saying "Yes , it was me who listened your prayers and blessed you with a job" .

This might sound amusing to you , but this exactly is what "faith" is !
faith - belief in something which sounds contrary to reason and has little material or logical evidence supporting it !

nope your goddie is not my eternal father, your goddie is some hybrid deity that you have created yourself to bless you with your demands. I do not have an eternal father, only Ek Ong Kar.

You sound so contrary to SGGS !

And I am proud to be that child, if in your head, children are only good if they ask their father for things, I hope you one day have very good children. I tend to ask my dad what I can do for him, weird to you probably, thinking of someone else's needs other than your own, try it one day.

I do think of other's needs as well . Why wud u think I am selfish !
Just because I ask for things doesn't mean I don't care for other's needs ! Stop extrapolating !

reassurance, rebukes, do you ever do animal sacrifices?

That wud be contrary to gurmat ! As all animals have souls , all animals have god in them ! And everything you say is also god speaking , everything I say is also god speaking. An atheist denying god is also god speaking ! thats the breath-taking philosophy that Guru Nanak spoke of !

your right, why don't you buy a nice picture of the event, stick it on a wall, I am now getting your version of Sikhism, its all making sense, hey did you see the full moon the other day?

I don't believe in superstitions like moons, suns or eclipses ! so don't attribute that crap to me

given that there are many translations, why is it then that you quote the english one that you have pasted? why not the other one? in fact you have done this on many occasions, so I guess your relying on the english translations, its easily proven, so do be careful how you answer...

most translations are not far away from the actual possible meanings of the original gurmukhi gurbani !

I can prove otherwise by quoting your posts, I do not think you know Gurmukhi at all.

I aced gurmukhi - punjabi test when I learnt in my summer vacations at the age of 12 and still haven't forgotten it . You wanna see a scanned copy of my certificate now ! see u had me

sorry, I have no interest in your collection of Baba's that you quote from, it means nothing,

how do you know he's just another baba and not a 'sant' or a 'saadh' or a 'brahmgiani' . Sukhmani sahib warns against slandering all the 3 types of people mentioned above, in ashtapadi (octet) 13, 7 and 8 respectively !

another one! God bless, what is this, some magic mantra that means you can write what you want, or say what you want, or think what you want, provided you put the obligatory 'god bless' at the end?

I really do mean it . I don't have anything against u

 

[namritanevaeh]

Sexual orientation is a sticky subject. It took me 62 years to discover mine. Did you know there is a fourth orientation besides gay/lesbian, heterosexual and bisexual? Some few of us are "none of the above." Not attracted to either sex. Only once in my life did I ever feel attracted to anyone. I think that was more curiosity than attraction because after once, I sort of lost interest.
.

5th dimension: polyamourous. ;-)

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

5th dimension: polyamourous. ;-)

"Polyamorous" is "how many," not "what kind."

 

[Ishna]

Maybe Namrita bhainji meant 'pansexual'?

 

[namritanevaeh]

"Polyamorous" is "how many," not "what kind."

But isn't someone who is not interested in either sex also kind of "how many"? ;-)

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

But isn't someone who is not interested in either sex also kind of "how many"? ;-)

In a sense, I suppose, since the number would be none, but the primary identification is attraction to neither sex and the number is incidental.

 

[Harry Haller]

u crack me up at times !

don't crack up, try thinking instead

anyways yes I am spoilt because my guru is affluent enough !

this, like most of what you write, makes little sense to me, you agree your spoilt, but now you say that your guru has lots of money and resources, so you will continue to be spoilt, I know that to you, I am an atheist manmukh, however, I see little of what I know to be Sikhi in this statement, it sounds more like Islam, where you are promised paradise and riches beyond belief, in Sikhi, such means nothing, would you care to comment on this?

on a serious note, my dad said the same kind of things to me when I got the job .

I like your dad, you should try listening to him more often when you are not asking him for things.

And then one fine sunday, I take the question in my heart to guru ji "Why my father says like this ? did you not help me? please solve my confusion guru ji because my father has sown seeds of skepticism in my heart as well"

I feel sorry for you, your going to get a fall, a big one, and your deity will also let you down, and then you will have nothing, your faith is only as secure as long as the goods keep coming, in fact, you have no faith, if you did, you would accept and not keep asking for little miracles and signs. When it all goes wrong, and it will, we will deal with it at that point.

And the true guru as usual replies back :


ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
धनासरी महला ५ ॥
Ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 5.
Dhanaasaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਸੋਈ ਸੁਘੜੁ ਸੁਜਾਨੀ ॥
जिस का तनु मनु धनु सभु तिस का सोई सुघड़ु सुजानी ॥
Jis kā ṯan man ḏẖan sabẖ ṯis kā so▫ī sugẖaṛ sujānī.
Body, mind, wealth and everything belong to Him; He alone is all-wise and all-knowing.


ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਤਉ ਬਿਧਿ ਨੀਕੀ ਖਟਾਨੀ ॥੧॥
तिन ही सुणिआ दुखु सुखु मेरा तउ बिधि नीकी खटानी ॥१॥
Ŧin hī suṇi▫ā ḏukẖ sukẖ merā ṯa▫o biḏẖ nīkī kẖatānī. ||1||
He listens to my pains and pleasures, and then my condition improves. ||1||


ਜੀਅ ਕੀ ਏਕੈ ਹੀ ਪਹਿ ਮਾਨੀ ॥
जीअ की एकै ही पहि मानी ॥
Jī▫a kī ekai hī pėh mānī.
My soul is satisfied with the One Lord alone.


ਅਵਰਿ ਜਤਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਹੇ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਤਿਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अवरि जतन करि रहे बहुतेरे तिन तिलु नही कीमति जानी ॥ रहाउ ॥
Avar jaṯan kar rahe bahuṯere ṯin ṯil nahī kīmaṯ jānī. Rahā▫o.
People make all sorts of other efforts, but they have no value at all. ||Pause||


I knew in my heart that the guru replied me in pangti number ||1|| . "He listens to my pains and pleasures , and then my condition improves" .
Guru was saying "Yes , it was me who listened your prayers and blessed you with a job" .

you see the trouble with looking out for English translations of Bani, is that you lose the whole gist of the shabad, firstly, just for a laugh, lets quote the other translation,

ਧਨਾਸਰੀਮਹਲਾ੫॥

धनासरी महला ५ ॥

Ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 5.

Dhanasri 5th Guru.


ਜਿਸਕਾਤਨੁਮਨੁਧਨੁਸਭੁਤਿਸਕਾਸੋਈਸੁਘੜੁਸੁਜਾਨੀ॥

जिस का तनु मनु धनु सभु तिस का सोई सुघड़ु सुजानी ॥

Jis kā ṯan man ḏẖan sabẖ ṯis kā so▫ī sugẖaṛ sujānī.

He alone is wise and Omniscient to whom belong our body, soul and wealth and His is the entire universe.


ਤਿਨਹੀਸੁਣਿਆਦੁਖੁਸੁਖੁਮੇਰਾਤਉਬਿਧਿਨੀਕੀਖਟਾਨੀ॥੧॥

तिन ही सुणिआ दुखु सुखु मेरा तउ बिधि नीकी खटानी ॥१॥

Ŧin hī suṇi▫ā ḏukẖ sukẖ merā ṯa▫o biḏẖ nīkī kẖatānī. ||1||

When He hears my weal and woe, it is then that my condition takes a turn for the better.


ਜੀਅਕੀਏਕੈਹੀਪਹਿਮਾਨੀ॥

जीअ की एकै ही पहि मानी ॥

Jī▫a kī ekai hī pėh mānī.

My mind is satisfied with my Lord alone.


ਅਵਰਿਜਤਨਕਰਿਰਹੇਬਹੁਤੇਰੇਤਿਨਤਿਲੁਨਹੀਕੀਮਤਿਜਾਨੀ॥ਰਹਾਉ॥

अवरि जतन करि रहे बहुतेरे तिन तिलु नही कीमति जानी ॥ रहाउ ॥

Avar jaṯan kar rahe bahuṯere ṯin ṯil nahī kīmaṯ jānī. Rahā▫o.

Many other efforts people have make, but I value them not even a bit. Pause.


ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨਾਮੁਨਿਰਮੋਲਕੁਹੀਰਾਗੁਰਿਦੀਨੋਮੰਤਾਨੀ॥

अम्रित नामु निरमोलकु हीरा गुरि दीनो मंतानी ॥

Amriṯ nām nirmolak hīrā gur ḏīno manṯānī.

The Nectar Name is the priceless gem. The Guru has given me this piece of advice.


ਡਿਗੈਨਡੋਲੈਦ੍ਰਿੜੁਕਰਿਰਹਿਓਪੂਰਨਹੋਇਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾਨੀ॥੨॥

डिगै न डोलै द्रिड़ु करि रहिओ पूरन होइ त्रिपतानी ॥२॥

Digai na dolai ḏariṛ kar rahi▫o pūran ho▫e ṯaripṯānī. ||2||

The (Name)is neither lost nor it wavers, rather remains stable, and my soul is perfectly satiated with it.


ਓਇਜੁਬੀਚਹਮਤੁਮਕਛੁਹੋਤੇਤਿਨਕੀਬਾਤਬਿਲਾਨੀ॥

ओइ जु बीच हम तुम कछु होते तिन की बात बिलानी ॥

O▫e jo bīcẖ ham ṯum kacẖẖ hoṯe ṯin kī bāṯ bilānī.

The vices, which tore me from Thee, O Lord, their role is ended now.

ਅਲੰਕਾਰਮਿਲਿਥੈਲੀਹੋਈਹੈਤਾਤੇਕਨਿਕਵਖਾਨੀ॥੩॥

अलंकार मिलि थैली होई है ता ते कनिक वखानी ॥३॥

Alankār mil thailī ho▫ī hai ṯā ṯe kanik vakẖānī. ||3||

When gold ornaments melt into a lump, even then, they are said to be nothing but gold.


ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਓਜੋਤਿਸਹਜਸੁਖਸੋਭਾਬਾਜੇਅਨਹਤਬਾਨੀ॥

प्रगटिओ जोति सहज सुख सोभा बाजे अनहत बानी ॥

Pargati▫o joṯ sahj sukẖ sobẖā bāje anhaṯ bānī.

The diving light has become manifest unto me, I am filled with poise, peace and Lord's praise, and celestial strain rings within me.


ਕਹੁਨਾਨਕਨਿਹਚਲਘਰੁਬਾਧਿਓਗੁਰਿਕੀਓਬੰਧਾਨੀ॥੪॥੫॥

कहु नानक निहचल घरु बाधिओ गुरि कीओ बंधानी ॥४॥५॥

Kaho Nānak nihcẖal gẖar bāḏẖi▫o gur kī▫o banḏẖānī. ||4||5||

Says Nanak, I have built an eternal mansion for myself and the Guru has constructed it.

now, to me, this shabad is about being in a state of bliss and not needing anything wordly other than the grace bestowed by Ek Ong Kar, rather than fulfilling wishes and requests, could you give your interpretation of the shabad?

This might sound amusing to you

in all honesty, no, it is not amusing, its scary

but this exactly is what "faith" is !

faith is not about asking things from a deity

faith - belief in something which sounds contrary to reason and has little material or logical evidence supporting it !

you mean like religion was before Guru Nanakji came along and started asking a load of awkward questions? throwing water at the sun fits in with your definition, care to explain further?

I do think of other's needs as well . Why wud u think I am selfish !

because all you write about is yourself, your problems and how your deity helps you with them, I know your selfish, you know your selfish, what else do you call someone that does seva for the sole purpose of getting something back?

An atheist denying god is also god speaking ! thats the breath-taking philosophy that Guru Nanak spoke of !

so why get angry at Hitler mocking meditation? it is after all god speaking? Is a man raping a woman in fact god raping a woman? do explain more about this breath taking philosophy please.

I don't believe in superstitions like moons, suns or eclipses ! so don't attribute that crap to me

which superstitions do you believe in?

most translations are not far away from the actual possible meanings of the original gurmukhi gurbani !

oh that's ok then!

I really do mean it . I don't have anything against u

Of course you don't, I already know this, we hate in others what we hate in ourselves, this is not a debate between me and you, its a debate between you and you.

 

[Seeker2013]

so a patit sikh who has never lifted a pothi in all his life , who doesn't even know the basics of nitnem , who hasn't read guru granth sahib because he doesn't know gurmukhi is lecturing me on the essence of sikhi and how my way is wrong ! oh my !

 

[Harry Haller]

so a patit sikh who has never lifted a pothi in all his life , who doesn't even know the basics of nitnem , who hasn't read guru granth sahib because he doesn't know gurmukhi is lecturing me on the essence of sikhi and how my way is wrong ! oh my !

actually you missed out my time in prison, drug abuse, alcohol abuse and sex addiction. yes, do you intend to respond? do you have the ability to respond?

 

[Seeker2013]

yes, do you intend to respond? do you have the ability to respond?

I have already responded multiple times ! if only you bothered to read
"Taking a hukamnama" is considered a sikh practice dating back to times of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji, perhaps earlier ! Don't we all say again and again "santa ke kaaraj aap khaloa , ...." was the first hukamnama when aadi granth was installed in golden temple ?
"santa ke kaaraj aap khaloa" meaning "god himself stands for the work of saints" and we often correlate that to the work of Sri Guru Arjan dev of writing SGGS.
where is it said "santa(n)" is referring to Guru Arjan dev ? but we often read the message as such ! thats preached everywhere in sikhi !
so asking for guidance from SGGS is a very old sikh practice , but then again you have mocked meditation, dhyaan sadhna as well. so what can I say ?

 

[Harry Haller]

I have already responded multiple times ! if only you bothered to read

ok lets sum my questions,.

now, to me, this shabad is about being in a state of bliss and not needing anything wordly other than the grace bestowed by Ek Ong Kar, rather than fulfilling wishes and requests, could you give your interpretation of the shabad?

you mean like religion was before Guru Nanakji came along and started asking a load of awkward questions? throwing water at the sun fits in with your definition, care to explain further?

so why get angry at Hitler mocking meditation? it is after all god speaking? Is a man raping a woman in fact god raping a woman? do explain more about this breath taking philosophy please.

which superstitions do you believe in?

think you could possibly answer even the one? given that you are not a patit Sikh, given you have lifted lots of pothis, given that you know Gurmukhi, given that you understand Nitnem, please, if you are able, answer my questions

 

[notanotherloginplease]

lol.. too much discussion..

Some simple facts to think about..(I am talking in context to original question).

1. Why god made two genders in humans?
Answer: For reproduction
2. If we accept hairs on our head as god's gift and keep them, Shouldn't we accept what he has made us?

Sexual orientation is just a mind game, The sole purpose of sex is reproduction. If it can be achieved by being homosexual then its OK otherwise one must do something to curb such feelings.

 

[Seeker2013]

lol.. too much discussion..

Some simple facts to think about..(I am talking in context to original question).

1. Why god made two genders in humans?
Answer: For reproduction
2. If we accept hairs on our head as god's gift and keep them, Shouldn't we accept what he has made us?

Sexual orientation is just a mind game, The sole purpose of sex is reproduction. If it can be achieved by being homosexual then its OK otherwise one must do something to curb such feelings.

then we should ban condoms and contraceptive pills as well ! as they allow heterosexuals to have sex without a possibility of baby . Or are you only going to condemn gays as usual "double standards"?

if we accept hair , then why not accept nails too ? I don't think we as sikhs keep our hair just because god made us that way ! theres a much deeper and spiritual reason for that, that we right now don't know totally ! else we would be keeping nails too, but we don't !
I think keeping of hair has something to do with 'aagya chakr' (lotus chakra on top of head)

 

[Harry Haller]

theres a much deeper and spiritual reason for that, that we right now don't know totally !

many who keep their hair know exactly why they do, perhaps you should ask one.

 

[notanotherloginplease]

then we should ban condoms and contraceptive pills as well ! as they allow heterosexuals to have sex without a possibility of baby . Or are you only going to condemn gays as usual "double standards"?

if we accept hair , then why not accept nails too ? I don't think we as sikhs keep our hair just because god made us that way ! theres a much deeper and spiritual reason for that, that we right now don't know totally ! else we would be keeping nails too, but we don't !
I think keeping of hair has something to do with 'aagya chakr' (lotus chakra on top of head)

Thats my point. Any kind of contraceptive extends the thought of people being unable to control their sexual desires and according to gurbani we should learn to control it. I know we cant yet, but ateast we should try.

Example of hairs is just to prove the point of acceptance. "tera bhana meetha laage" ..

 

[Seeker2013]

Thats my point. Any kind of contraceptive extends the thought of people being unable to control their sexual desires and according to gurbani we should learn to control it. I know we cant yet, but ateast we should try.

Example of hairs is just to prove the point of acceptance. "tera bhana meetha laage" ..

then why not nails ? then why go for organ transplant or even cure a disease, after all it happened by his bhana. By curing disease, aren't you saying you don't like his bhana !

 

[notanotherloginplease]

then why not nails ? then why go for organ transplant or even cure a disease, after all it happened by his bhana. By curing disease, aren't you saying you don't like his bhana !

lol.. this is what we call ਵਾਲ ਦੀ ਖੱਲ ਲਾਹੁਣੀ..
and how organ transplant/disease cure is related to orientation?
Organ transplant is a need, and sexual orientation is a choice.

 

[Seeker2013]

lol.. this is what we call ਵਾਲ ਦੀ ਖੱਲ ਲਾਹੁਣੀ..
and how organ transplant/disease cure is related to orientation?
Organ transplant is a need, and sexual orientation is a choice.

I NEVER made a conscious decision on my life to be gay . Are you saying breeders choose to be breeders ? do they make a conscious choice to be breeders ?
its always funny and annoying to see heterosexuals act as if they know more about being gay than gays themselves . who gave you peeps authority ?

sexuality is a choice as much as your eye color is ! whole day you can wear a contacts of different color to fool the world. However at the end of the day, you still know . you can't cheat yourself.

Being a homophobe or religious is much more of a choice than being gay is, however