Radha Soami's are no doubt closer to hinduism in philosophy and techniques. That said, one can argue they do more social good and are more spiritual than many sikhs. How many here on the forum have been to beas or agra? It probably is not unwise to say judgement should be withheld until appropriate experience is obtained. Also, many radhasoamis do not "give up" sikhism.
Sects Who Are The Radha Soami?
- Thread starter singh_man
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Yes,
I have been to Dera Beas with a relative. I did not find any new thing and I am sure masses did not understand what katha was being done... simple one, two line explanations of Gurbani as if just telling masses to go home and remember it just like parrot. But they have made an impressive place which is sufficient to attract masses and their following. thay have a place where people can go to quench their spritual thirst.
If they are able to do it without much power and substance, what is stopping SGPC to start such places on similiar lines and attract them back.
We need learned religious leadrs to do that. Fingure pointing does not help.
I am not sure but it is said that we have so many missionary college. Let us focus on this aspect with a plan to bring unity. I think we need to ponder over our goals in running these colleges and improve them by making result oriented and focussed. Identify students and groom them.
Get people back by actions and plan.
BTW, Radha soami do giveup goingto Gurudwara and bowing to Guru granth Saahib.
people listen to the same lines and their explanation but do not bow to it... what a double speak?
My point again is, if people are ready to go to them with such uncertain ideas, then it should not be difficult to get them back when we preach on solid ground.... but beware of being hardliner.
Their present leader is not even as charismatic as earlier ones. Charisma does work.
Re: Who are the Radha Soami's? Fake baba's?
Such a big sect has a 10 page site?
But I know there are large number when they attend on Sunday in Canada.
Basically, it is matter of convenience which takes people to them.
I would not say fake Baba... but someone filling the gap.
Basically it is marketing.
Why is the site devoid of much guidance to common person and does not have any basic tenets of Radha Soami sect.
Such a big sect has a 10 page site?
But I know there are large number when they attend on Sunday in Canada.
Basically, it is matter of convenience which takes people to them.
I would not say fake Baba... but someone filling the gap.
Basically it is marketing.
Ajmer singh Randhawa
SPNer
I have written a blog to distinguish in between Sikhs and Radhaswami because there are many Sikhs who wished to know it. Radhaswamis aren't not Sikhs.
Please visit Sikhs and Radhaswami sect to know in details.
Regards and Guru fateh !!
Please visit Sikhs and Radhaswami sect to know in details.
Regards and Guru fateh !!
Ajmer singh Randhawa
SPNer
SPN is hereby requested to allow the readers to visit the blog Sikhs and Radhaswami sect because the organizers do not promote, how could the curious Sikhs shall come to know the truth of Radhaswami's and nobody shall be able to differentiate in the sect and religion.
My only purpose is to inform every Sikh that the true name is already given to them by first guru-guru Nanak Dev ji as SATNAM WAHEGURU,, which is not alike to keep personal but to chant in congregation because it is never reduced but as much as is chanted, it not only increases in mant folds but cleans your heart and soul also.
Satnam Waheguru ji !!
My only purpose is to inform every Sikh that the true name is already given to them by first guru-guru Nanak Dev ji as SATNAM WAHEGURU,, which is not alike to keep personal but to chant in congregation because it is never reduced but as much as is chanted, it not only increases in mant folds but cleans your heart and soul also.
Satnam Waheguru ji !!
Ajmer singh Randhawa
SPNer
Well, as the organizer's of SPN do not allow to publish the blog address, i am hereby compelled to write the truth here on SPN for all readers.
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ Radhaswami sect was earlier started by an ex-communicated Sikh who was habitual of smoking Bidi’sHukka and other sort of tobbaco use, which is restricted in Sikh religion. They do not restrict smoking to their followers but use of other intoxications like use of liquor or eating meat is prohibited in their sect. It's mentioned in their holy book 'SAAR-BACHAN', by their first Guru Shiv Dayal Singh that,
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"Hukka bhar ke daasi liaayi, ਹੁਕ਼ਾ ਭਰ ਕੇ ਦਾਸੀ ਲਿਆਈ !
Radhasuami dhid baith pilaayi, ਰਾਧਾਸੁਆਮੀ ਢਿਡ ਬੈਠ ਪਿਲਾਈ !
Hukka haq haq boli bola. ਹੁਕ਼ਾ ਹਕ਼ ਹਕ਼ ਬੋਲੀ ਬੋਲਾ !
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Baba jaimal Singh and Baba Sawan Singh of Beas were Sikhs, so his followers chant,"Satguru haq haq boli bola" ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਹਕ਼ ਹਕ਼ ਬੋਲੀ ਬੋਲਾ ! in lieu of 'Hukaa haq haq boli bola'.
Baani changed from Agra to Beas.
As I studied somewhere long back that this name Radha + Swami was formed by that ex-communicated Sikh Granthi and Keertania deployed at Gurudwara Maai Thaan, AGRA. Shiv Dayal Singh alias SUAMI was his name but because of he was habitual of smoking Hukka, Bidi and other forms of tobbaco, he was ex-communicated from Sikh Panth. Radha was the name of his wife and Swami to her husband. So Radha + Swami came in existence and the sect called as Radhaswami sect. This is copied from RADHA-KRISHAN.
There are three factions of this group:--
(One) -of Agra, which they claim that the sect was started from Agra.
(Two)-of Sant Jaimal singh ji of Beas, which is famous than Agra and the ,
(Three)-Of Sant Kirpal Singh ji which is a breakway group from Beas.
The followers of this sect are from all religions.
RADHASWAMIS HAVE NO RELIGION.<atomicelement id="ms__id41"><atomicelement id="ms__id19811"><atomicelement id="ms__id25179"><atomicelement id="ms__id28839"></atomicelement></atomicelement></atomicelement></atomicelement>Especially Sikhs which are generally attracted towards Saadhus or Saints. They (Sikhs) feel honored serving, providing food etc. to Saadhus. Due to this politeness and kind heartedness, when Sant Jaimal singh visited Beas and stayed outskirts of village to meditate, the villagers gathered and brought food , Lassi , Milk etc. in his service. Sant Jaimal singh got pleased and told the villagers that he wanted to build a Gurudwara in the village and thus needs some land. The villagers felt honored by his decision and the Nabardaar/President of village Beas agreed to provide land for the Gurudwara but villagers were intelligent. How could they trust a stranger so they insisted to register the land in the name of Sri Guru Granth Saheb Ji. The name of the heads of village Bal saraan who registered this land in the name of Guru Granth Sahab ji were----Lalu Namabardaar, Mehtaab Singh, Bhan Singh, Bur Singh, Sher Singh and Gurditt Singh ji. This was the first instance of its kind where the Registry of any piece of land was to be named after the Holy book/which was bestowed as Guru of Sikh religion by 10th Guru Gobind Singh ji and which guides the Sikhs in their spiritual and materialistic needs in this world as there is no living person as Guru in Sikh religion.
Britishers agreed to transfer the land in the name of Guru Granth Sahab ji, Registry no. 254, dated 14 June 1897.( Measures 11 Kanal, 16 Marla)The land was given to Baba Jaimal singh to build the Gurudwara in villaege. It is mentioned in registry. "Guru Granth Sahab wakiyaa dharamsala muntjim baa-eh-tamaam Jaimal Simgh saadh jatt. The land could never be transferred to any living person and still this land which is in use by the sect is the property of Guru Granth Sahib ji (or to say, of the Sikh religion).
The remark in verification of 'INTKAAL' is---Baba Jaimal Singh shall have no right to sell or mortgage, this will always be used as Dharmsala (Gurudwara). This place was used as a Gurudwara for the first 50 years of the existance of Radhaswami sect. After about 50 years they declared themselves Radhaswami - a sect.
Now starts the betrayal. Baba Jaimal singh passed away in 1903. His predecessor Sawan singh became head of sect. On 10th May 1905, the Intkaal no, changed to 536, Sawan Singh chela baa-raae. Mohatmim. Radhaswami sect Beas, which is very near to Amritsar - and to the highest temporal seat of Sikhs, Akal -Takhat was set there with a pre-planned mission to attract innocent and illiterate Sikhs from nearby villages to their sect as there is no living Guru in Sikh religion and it was very easy for these wicked and clever planners to fabricate their thoughts and mould them to convert the Sikhs from their own religion to the sect without disturbing their faith or religion. This way they could easily brain-wash these villagers and increase the strength of their followers which has shot up recently to 100 millions.
They copy the traditions of Sikh religion like Naam-Simran. Sikhs are blessed by their first Guru, Guru Naanak Dev ji has obliged his followers (Sikhs) by the Name of AKAL PURAKH to chant as WAHEGURU or SATNAAM WAHEGURU, means Thy name Waheguru is true. These Radhaswami people how could they allow their followers to chant Waheguru so they too copied it . now when they baptize to their followers they give a secret naam to chant which the follower have to keep secret from all others-from Sangat /congregation of followers, from their friends or family members, even they can’t share in between husband and wife. Which is against the Sikh religion and their code of conduct because the congregation is given the highest status in Sikhs where all they recite thy naam of Waheguru openly and loudly.
Fifth Guru Arjan Dev ji says,” ਹਮ ਧਨਵੰਤ ਭਾਗਠੁ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਇ !! ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ਸਹਜੁ ਸੁਭਾਇ !! Ham dhanwant bhaagath sach naayen !! Har gun gaayen sahaj subhayen !!” Means We are richest as we recite thy name !! we chant thy naam in simple natural way !!
He further says,” ਖਾਵਹੁ ਖਰਚਹੁ ਰਲ ਮਿਲ ਭਾਈ !! ਤੋਟ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਵਧਦੋ ਜਾਈ !! Khavhu kharchahu ral mil bhai !! Toat na aavey vad do jaai !!” Means those who spend this storage of thy naam in congregation all together, there will be no shortage of this wealth to them of bestowed naam .
Hence like Ram Naam in temples or in any sect or religion people gather and recite thy Naam loudly to worship but in Radhaswami sect one disciple cannot disclose or share his bestowed Naam to his fellow worshippers. So what kind of Sangat/Congregation is that. It is beyond the limits to express by me.
Guru Arjan Dev ji says that “ ਸੰਗਤ ਕੈਸੀ ਜਾਣੀਏ ਜਿਥੇ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮ ਵਖਾਣੀਏ !! SANGAT KAISI JAANIYE JITHE EKO NAAM VAKHAANIYE !!” Means that the true congregation is where only his naam is shared, recited and praised.
So what kind of secret Naam is given to the disciples, what they chant in ignorance would be best known to them only but I try to define :--
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These are the practices of Sikh religion not followed by Radhaswamis as,
(1)-Difference in Naam simran,
(2)- Difference in Naam Jap, Waheguru Gurmantra of Sikhs is not accepted by sect.
(3)- Karah parsaad is not prepared by sect thus not distributed in disciples/sangat.
(4)No Kirpan Bhenta - Kirpaan or Sword is not offered to Karaah-parsaad as it is not prepered but in Sikh religion, No Karaah parsaad is distributed without offering the holy Kirpaan.
(5)- Jo bole so nihaal-Sat siri akal, The Sikh battle cry is not in use at sect, they disallow it.
(6)- Sikh when greet each other call by Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh !! whereas Radhaswami greets by calling ‘Radhaswamiji.' The difference in greeting too.
(7)- No Kesri Nissan Sahib is furled in sect which is holy sign of Sikh Gurudwaras.
(8)- Sikh Insignia (Khanda) :--
Khanda is the emblem of the Sikh nation. It consists of two Kirpaans (the Sikh swords), one Khanda (double-edged sword) and one Chakkar (circle). The Sikhs have adopted it as an emblem of their royalty and nationality. The two swords represent spiritual and temporal sovereignty of the Sikh nation, the Chakkar symbolizes the wholeness of the universe as well as creation and the double-edged sword symbolizes initiation. Thus sovereignty, infinity and initiation are the three basic points of the Sikh national emblem.
In sect , they do not have any insignia of their own.
(9)-No free distribution of Langar- is served in community kitchen for the poors, needy and devotees as a mark to equality in disciples by sect. This tradition was started by Sikh Gurus which is in practice at every Gurudwara. Guru ji says " ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਤੇਰਾ !! Jo kichu hai so tera."
(10)-Recite of their own Baani (Kacchi Baani)in sect along with the pious Baani of Guru Granth Sahab ji, which is a disrespect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
(11)- Amrit is not prepared and not used to baptize their disciples or followers by sect.
(12)-The main tradition of Panj Pyare is not followed in sect.
(13)-Use of Liquor and meat is prohibited but not the use of tobacco in followers by sect..
(14)-One thing is found common in this sect like Nirankari mission that the disciples of the sect are advised to eat the leftover of their Guru, mixed in community kitchens(Bhandara), called Gur-parsaadi,Spit or tasted water etc, thrown out of mouth of Guru to be accepted cheerfully by disciple and to drink is considered nectar.
"Gur parsaadi khaah Tere bhale ki kahun.." ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਖਾਹ ਤੇਰੇ ਭਲੇ ਕੀ ਕਹੂੰ ! (saar Bachan).
"Kiaa charnamrit layi prasaadi ! Haar charaa kar bandagi saadhi...... ਕੀਆ ਚਰਨਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲਈ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ! ਹਾਰ ਚੜਾ ਕਰ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਸਾਧੀ !
upto.......
"Kulli dayi suaami Kul mera udhara ! Janam safal aur tan man sudhara !" ਕੁੱਲੀ ਦਈ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਕੁਲ ਮੇਰਾ ਉਧਾਰਾ ! ਜਨਮ ਸਫਲ ਔਰ ਤਨ ਮਨ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ! Page 779.
(15)- No condition to recite Nitnem as they don’t have any such Baani to be recited, so camouflaging the followers to practice their own faith, along with their bestowed secret Naam , To whom they worship, what they worship other than Akal Purakh is best known to them because Sikhs have no living Guru.
(16)- Five Kakars not important to them as anybody from any faith/religion could be a follower of their sect.
(17)- Their ARDAS in sect is different than the Sikhs.
(18)- They believe in living Guru and bow before him, whereas in Sikhism there is no living man called as Guru.
(19)-How could Dasam Dwar be at third level as it is not a region but is a doorway to Sachkhand? As preached to misguide the followers of sect.
At last i would like to disclose a very important thing to all disciples of Radhaswami sect that when they can not recite any Baani of their own on death of somebody, to pray for the peace upon the dead soul. Their Gurus or administrators also need to bow before Guru Granth Sahab ji to perform last rites. How could they provide you anything during your life time. I mean, Are they in position to fulfil your wishes of money, son, a home or any other materialistic need which some one prays to almighty Waheguru?
I have written some differences in Sikhs and Radhaswamis so how could they call them Sikhs- just by their appearance as Sikhs, dressed like Sikhs. Due to these resembles they can’t be called Sikhs. Guru Gobind Singh ji says,"Rahat piaari mohe Sikh piaara naahe!!" ਰਹਿਤ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਮੋਹਿ ਸਿਖ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਨਾਹਿ !! Means The devotees who recite the name of Akal Purakh, Live in displine and follow the bindings to Sikh Rahat Maryada-Namm simran, Reading Gurbaani only, and strictly follow the restriction issued at the time of Baptization (Amrit chakna)in Sikhi (Khalsa).
He is clear to his devotees that,"Jab eh gahe bipran ki reet !! Main na karon inki parteet !!" ਜਬ ਇਹ ਗਹਿ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤ !! ਮੈਂ ਨ ਕਰੋਂ ਇਨਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ !! Means when the devotees shall go the other way, he will not be with them otherewise Guru is always with his Sikh.
Than question arises, What are they if not Sikhs ?
Ok. Let us try to clear like this.
Suppose you are given two pouches filled with money. In the first one:- You can enjoy by looking the wealth in it daily, You are master of this wealth. It is yours and belong to you only. You have to take care of it but the only condition is that you shall have no right to spend it. Make yourself smiley and cheerful by looking in it daily.
In the second pouch,You are also master of it and there is not any condition on spending but you are getting bonus on what you spend. The maximum you spend, this wealth shall go in many folds, doubles and doubles daily. Spend as much as you can. Which one would you prefer?
Certainly the second one which allows you to spend as much as you can. This wealth is of Naam Simran and Jaap. Radhaswami restricts it’s followers to share thy name of Lord but Sikhism practices and allows all to share and recite in public gathering/Congregation/Sangat.
Guru Arjan Dev ji says,”Khavhu kharchahu ral mil bhaiToat na aavey vad do jaai !!” ਖਾਵਹੁ ਖਰਚਹੁ ਰਲ ਮਿਲ ਭਾਈ !! ਤੋਟ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਵਧਦੋ ਜਾਈ !! There will be no shortage of this wealth. By sharing in congregation and or yourself loudly, You become the dearer of Akal Purakh-Waheguru ji. Guru ji further says,”Aap japahu awarah naam japaawahu !!” ਆਪ ਜਪਹੁ ਅਵਰਾ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਾਵਹੁ !! Recite yourself and invite others to recite.
Radhaswami’s disallow this practice and mark disrespect to Gurbaani by anti-concept of it.
As much as you will recite, You will feel yourself near to the almighty Waheguru. Guru ji says,”Charan sharan Guru ek painda jaaye chal Satguru koat painda aage hoye let hain !!” ਚਰਣ ਸ਼ਰਣ ਗੁਰੂ ਏਕ ਪੈਂਡਾ ਜਾਇ ਚਲ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੋਟਿ ਪੈਂਡਾ ਆਗੇ ਹੋਇ ਲੇਤ ਹੈਂ !! You just proceed and put your first step on the true path, He will bestow all his happiness upon you and take care of you himself.
Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
The sounds that Radhaswamis hear in meditation are the sound created by their mind. These are not shabads of any realm. Radhaswami devotee sits in a squat way, place their hands on their eyes and ears and try to listen first to the sound of a Ghanta (bell). Before sitting in this Aalti Paalti Aasan (Transcendent meditation position) they repeat their Varnatmak (bestowed) Naam for sometime. Then they try to listen to these sounds. First of all when you place hands on your ears, you can hear the sounds of your body. They get excited by this. Then when your mind wants to hear the sound of bell from the right corner of your brain, your mind will create that sound for you. What’s so great about this. This is not the celestial sound that Gurbaani is talking about.
The real celestial sound is that sound that the true Devotee hears after his Dasam Duar opens. This sound is the sound from Sachkhand. It is the sound of mehima or sifat-salaah of Vaheguru going on in Sach Khand. It is bizarre that RS has placed Dasam Duar at the third level. First of all Dasam Duaar cannot be called a region. It is, as the name implies, a doorway from where you can access Sach Khand and hear and feel Sach Khand. How can it be merely third level as RaadhaSuaami suggests.
In Sikhism there is no living man called as Guru. A fabricated story( Historical facts suggest contrary to it) around Guru Gobind Singh ji's hidden life after 1708 AD is pretty good reason to believe that there is one's sect, set for a financial business. People can claim what they dream. In Sikhism there are ten Masters and eternal GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI ONLY. At the time of 9 th Master, there were people who would call themselves real Gurus, whose shops were closed eventually, new are opened and will keep opening due to financial and political reasons. As said" caravan goes on and the dogs bark on". Forgive me if any word I have used here and you don't like it. Radhaswamis should not call them Sikhs because Radha Swami word itself says clearly who they are !!!!!!!!
Money has a lot to do with the false baabaa, false guru syndrome. That and now an almost psychotic need to control others body, mind and soul. Sikhi is not alone in the emergence of human gurus. Many religions that claim One Transcendent God have people like this.
Guruji has words to live by on this topoic, !!
Pauree:
Aapae aap varathadhaa aap thaarree laaeean ਆਪਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਆਪਿ ਥਾਰੀ ਲਾਈਅਨ !!
He Himself is all-pervading; He Himself is absorbed in the profound state of Samaadhi. aapae Hee oupadhaesadhaa guramukh patheeaaeean
He Himself instructs; the Gurmukh is satisfied and fulfilled.
Eaapae oujharr paaeian eik bhagathee laaeian
Some, He causes to wander in the wilderness, while others are committed to His devotional worship.
Jis aap bujhaaeae so bujhasee aapae naae laaeean ਜਿਸ ਆਪਿ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਬ੍ਝ੍ਸੀ ਆਪਿ ਨਾਇ ਲਾਈਅਨ
He alone understands, whom the Lord causes to understand; He Himself attaches mortals to His Name.
Naanak naam dhhiaaeeai sachee vaddiaaee ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਧਿਆਈਏ ਸਾਚੀ ਵਡੀਆਈ 211 sudhh
O Nanak, meditating on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, true greatness is obtained. 211 Sudh
More than He and Himself, and more than meditation on His Name is un-necessary. Sikhs do not need another Guru.
Well this is said about the differences of Sikhs and Radhaswamis (who are not Sikhs). Their sect allows all to join and follow their sect irrespective of their (follower’s) religion. The number of Hindu people -joined this sect is no less now-a-days. A few would be aware of the fact that in the beginning of any Hawan, Yagya or any holy per formations, Lord Ganesha is worshipped first of all-OM SHRI GANESHAY NAMAH !! Ganesh ji is also known as LAMBODAR – means the person with long stomach/belly. LADDOO is his favorite of GANESHA. So all the devotees offer LADDOO to their deity in temples. In the other words I can say that one cannot worship empty stomach-BHOOKHE BHAJAN NAA HOI GOPALA, means one cannot concentrate in meditation if he is hungry.
In human body all the deities of Hindus have been placed at different places. The place of Lord Ganesha is in the NABHI/BELLY or you can call it in the stomach as related to feed the hungar. First feed yourself and then perform your Pooja etc.
Maharaj (so-called) CHARANJEET SINGH JI who was well qualified has written in his book that the place of Lord Ganesha is at the human’s *** (GUDA), from where the stool is passed. Can you believe the place of a deity is at such a dirty place-unbelieveable but it is true. I have read the book of him (Maharaj charan jeet Singh’s)
Now the readers may justify the findings of this sect. Hindus and Sikhs may decide if the teachings of this fraud sect, whether taking them away from their religion? Are not they becoming victims of sweet venom distributed to them in sweet of false preachings? Just decide yourself and i request you to follow your own faith/religion.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ Radhaswami sect was earlier started by an ex-communicated Sikh who was habitual of smoking Bidi’sHukka and other sort of tobbaco use, which is restricted in Sikh religion. They do not restrict smoking to their followers but use of other intoxications like use of liquor or eating meat is prohibited in their sect. It's mentioned in their holy book 'SAAR-BACHAN', by their first Guru Shiv Dayal Singh that,
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"Hukka bhar ke daasi liaayi, ਹੁਕ਼ਾ ਭਰ ਕੇ ਦਾਸੀ ਲਿਆਈ !
Radhasuami dhid baith pilaayi, ਰਾਧਾਸੁਆਮੀ ਢਿਡ ਬੈਠ ਪਿਲਾਈ !
Hukka haq haq boli bola. ਹੁਕ਼ਾ ਹਕ਼ ਹਕ਼ ਬੋਲੀ ਬੋਲਾ !
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Baba jaimal Singh and Baba Sawan Singh of Beas were Sikhs, so his followers chant,"Satguru haq haq boli bola" ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਹਕ਼ ਹਕ਼ ਬੋਲੀ ਬੋਲਾ ! in lieu of 'Hukaa haq haq boli bola'.
Baani changed from Agra to Beas.
As I studied somewhere long back that this name Radha + Swami was formed by that ex-communicated Sikh Granthi and Keertania deployed at Gurudwara Maai Thaan, AGRA. Shiv Dayal Singh alias SUAMI was his name but because of he was habitual of smoking Hukka, Bidi and other forms of tobbaco, he was ex-communicated from Sikh Panth. Radha was the name of his wife and Swami to her husband. So Radha + Swami came in existence and the sect called as Radhaswami sect. This is copied from RADHA-KRISHAN.
There are three factions of this group:--
(One) -of Agra, which they claim that the sect was started from Agra.
(Two)-of Sant Jaimal singh ji of Beas, which is famous than Agra and the ,
(Three)-Of Sant Kirpal Singh ji which is a breakway group from Beas.
The followers of this sect are from all religions.
RADHASWAMIS HAVE NO RELIGION.
Britishers agreed to transfer the land in the name of Guru Granth Sahab ji, Registry no. 254, dated 14 June 1897.( Measures 11 Kanal, 16 Marla)The land was given to Baba Jaimal singh to build the Gurudwara in villaege. It is mentioned in registry. "Guru Granth Sahab wakiyaa dharamsala muntjim baa-eh-tamaam Jaimal Simgh saadh jatt. The land could never be transferred to any living person and still this land which is in use by the sect is the property of Guru Granth Sahib ji (or to say, of the Sikh religion).
The remark in verification of 'INTKAAL' is---Baba Jaimal Singh shall have no right to sell or mortgage, this will always be used as Dharmsala (Gurudwara). This place was used as a Gurudwara for the first 50 years of the existance of Radhaswami sect. After about 50 years they declared themselves Radhaswami - a sect.
Now starts the betrayal. Baba Jaimal singh passed away in 1903. His predecessor Sawan singh became head of sect. On 10th May 1905, the Intkaal no, changed to 536, Sawan Singh chela baa-raae. Mohatmim. Radhaswami sect Beas, which is very near to Amritsar - and to the highest temporal seat of Sikhs, Akal -Takhat was set there with a pre-planned mission to attract innocent and illiterate Sikhs from nearby villages to their sect as there is no living Guru in Sikh religion and it was very easy for these wicked and clever planners to fabricate their thoughts and mould them to convert the Sikhs from their own religion to the sect without disturbing their faith or religion. This way they could easily brain-wash these villagers and increase the strength of their followers which has shot up recently to 100 millions.
They copy the traditions of Sikh religion like Naam-Simran. Sikhs are blessed by their first Guru, Guru Naanak Dev ji has obliged his followers (Sikhs) by the Name of AKAL PURAKH to chant as WAHEGURU or SATNAAM WAHEGURU, means Thy name Waheguru is true. These Radhaswami people how could they allow their followers to chant Waheguru so they too copied it . now when they baptize to their followers they give a secret naam to chant which the follower have to keep secret from all others-from Sangat /congregation of followers, from their friends or family members, even they can’t share in between husband and wife. Which is against the Sikh religion and their code of conduct because the congregation is given the highest status in Sikhs where all they recite thy naam of Waheguru openly and loudly.
Fifth Guru Arjan Dev ji says,” ਹਮ ਧਨਵੰਤ ਭਾਗਠੁ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਇ !! ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ਸਹਜੁ ਸੁਭਾਇ !! Ham dhanwant bhaagath sach naayen !! Har gun gaayen sahaj subhayen !!” Means We are richest as we recite thy name !! we chant thy naam in simple natural way !!
He further says,” ਖਾਵਹੁ ਖਰਚਹੁ ਰਲ ਮਿਲ ਭਾਈ !! ਤੋਟ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਵਧਦੋ ਜਾਈ !! Khavhu kharchahu ral mil bhai !! Toat na aavey vad do jaai !!” Means those who spend this storage of thy naam in congregation all together, there will be no shortage of this wealth to them of bestowed naam .
Hence like Ram Naam in temples or in any sect or religion people gather and recite thy Naam loudly to worship but in Radhaswami sect one disciple cannot disclose or share his bestowed Naam to his fellow worshippers. So what kind of Sangat/Congregation is that. It is beyond the limits to express by me.
Guru Arjan Dev ji says that “ ਸੰਗਤ ਕੈਸੀ ਜਾਣੀਏ ਜਿਥੇ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮ ਵਖਾਣੀਏ !! SANGAT KAISI JAANIYE JITHE EKO NAAM VAKHAANIYE !!” Means that the true congregation is where only his naam is shared, recited and praised.
So what kind of secret Naam is given to the disciples, what they chant in ignorance would be best known to them only but I try to define :--
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THE SIKHS ARE LIONS
These are the practices of Sikh religion not followed by Radhaswamis as,
(1)-Difference in Naam simran,
(2)- Difference in Naam Jap, Waheguru Gurmantra of Sikhs is not accepted by sect.
(3)- Karah parsaad is not prepared by sect thus not distributed in disciples/sangat.
(4)No Kirpan Bhenta - Kirpaan or Sword is not offered to Karaah-parsaad as it is not prepered but in Sikh religion, No Karaah parsaad is distributed without offering the holy Kirpaan.
(5)- Jo bole so nihaal-Sat siri akal, The Sikh battle cry is not in use at sect, they disallow it.
(6)- Sikh when greet each other call by Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh !! whereas Radhaswami greets by calling ‘Radhaswamiji.' The difference in greeting too.
(7)- No Kesri Nissan Sahib is furled in sect which is holy sign of Sikh Gurudwaras.
(8)- Sikh Insignia (Khanda) :--
Khanda is the emblem of the Sikh nation. It consists of two Kirpaans (the Sikh swords), one Khanda (double-edged sword) and one Chakkar (circle). The Sikhs have adopted it as an emblem of their royalty and nationality. The two swords represent spiritual and temporal sovereignty of the Sikh nation, the Chakkar symbolizes the wholeness of the universe as well as creation and the double-edged sword symbolizes initiation. Thus sovereignty, infinity and initiation are the three basic points of the Sikh national emblem.
In sect , they do not have any insignia of their own.
(9)-No free distribution of Langar- is served in community kitchen for the poors, needy and devotees as a mark to equality in disciples by sect. This tradition was started by Sikh Gurus which is in practice at every Gurudwara. Guru ji says " ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਤੇਰਾ !! Jo kichu hai so tera."
(10)-Recite of their own Baani (Kacchi Baani)in sect along with the pious Baani of Guru Granth Sahab ji, which is a disrespect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
(11)- Amrit is not prepared and not used to baptize their disciples or followers by sect.
(12)-The main tradition of Panj Pyare is not followed in sect.
(13)-Use of Liquor and meat is prohibited but not the use of tobacco in followers by sect..
(14)-One thing is found common in this sect like Nirankari mission that the disciples of the sect are advised to eat the leftover of their Guru, mixed in community kitchens(Bhandara), called Gur-parsaadi,Spit or tasted water etc, thrown out of mouth of Guru to be accepted cheerfully by disciple and to drink is considered nectar.
"Gur parsaadi khaah Tere bhale ki kahun.." ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਖਾਹ ਤੇਰੇ ਭਲੇ ਕੀ ਕਹੂੰ ! (saar Bachan).
"Kiaa charnamrit layi prasaadi ! Haar charaa kar bandagi saadhi...... ਕੀਆ ਚਰਨਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲਈ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ! ਹਾਰ ਚੜਾ ਕਰ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਸਾਧੀ !
upto.......
"Kulli dayi suaami Kul mera udhara ! Janam safal aur tan man sudhara !" ਕੁੱਲੀ ਦਈ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਕੁਲ ਮੇਰਾ ਉਧਾਰਾ ! ਜਨਮ ਸਫਲ ਔਰ ਤਨ ਮਨ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ! Page 779.
(15)- No condition to recite Nitnem as they don’t have any such Baani to be recited, so camouflaging the followers to practice their own faith, along with their bestowed secret Naam , To whom they worship, what they worship other than Akal Purakh is best known to them because Sikhs have no living Guru.
(16)- Five Kakars not important to them as anybody from any faith/religion could be a follower of their sect.
(17)- Their ARDAS in sect is different than the Sikhs.
(18)- They believe in living Guru and bow before him, whereas in Sikhism there is no living man called as Guru.
(19)-How could Dasam Dwar be at third level as it is not a region but is a doorway to Sachkhand? As preached to misguide the followers of sect.
At last i would like to disclose a very important thing to all disciples of Radhaswami sect that when they can not recite any Baani of their own on death of somebody, to pray for the peace upon the dead soul. Their Gurus or administrators also need to bow before Guru Granth Sahab ji to perform last rites. How could they provide you anything during your life time. I mean, Are they in position to fulfil your wishes of money, son, a home or any other materialistic need which some one prays to almighty Waheguru?
I have written some differences in Sikhs and Radhaswamis so how could they call them Sikhs- just by their appearance as Sikhs, dressed like Sikhs. Due to these resembles they can’t be called Sikhs. Guru Gobind Singh ji says,"Rahat piaari mohe Sikh piaara naahe!!" ਰਹਿਤ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਮੋਹਿ ਸਿਖ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਨਾਹਿ !! Means The devotees who recite the name of Akal Purakh, Live in displine and follow the bindings to Sikh Rahat Maryada-Namm simran, Reading Gurbaani only, and strictly follow the restriction issued at the time of Baptization (Amrit chakna)in Sikhi (Khalsa).
He is clear to his devotees that,"Jab eh gahe bipran ki reet !! Main na karon inki parteet !!" ਜਬ ਇਹ ਗਹਿ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤ !! ਮੈਂ ਨ ਕਰੋਂ ਇਨਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ !! Means when the devotees shall go the other way, he will not be with them otherewise Guru is always with his Sikh.
Than question arises, What are they if not Sikhs ?
Ok. Let us try to clear like this.
Suppose you are given two pouches filled with money. In the first one:- You can enjoy by looking the wealth in it daily, You are master of this wealth. It is yours and belong to you only. You have to take care of it but the only condition is that you shall have no right to spend it. Make yourself smiley and cheerful by looking in it daily.
In the second pouch,You are also master of it and there is not any condition on spending but you are getting bonus on what you spend. The maximum you spend, this wealth shall go in many folds, doubles and doubles daily. Spend as much as you can. Which one would you prefer?
Certainly the second one which allows you to spend as much as you can. This wealth is of Naam Simran and Jaap. Radhaswami restricts it’s followers to share thy name of Lord but Sikhism practices and allows all to share and recite in public gathering/Congregation/Sangat.
Guru Arjan Dev ji says,”Khavhu kharchahu ral mil bhaiToat na aavey vad do jaai !!” ਖਾਵਹੁ ਖਰਚਹੁ ਰਲ ਮਿਲ ਭਾਈ !! ਤੋਟ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਵਧਦੋ ਜਾਈ !! There will be no shortage of this wealth. By sharing in congregation and or yourself loudly, You become the dearer of Akal Purakh-Waheguru ji. Guru ji further says,”Aap japahu awarah naam japaawahu !!” ਆਪ ਜਪਹੁ ਅਵਰਾ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਾਵਹੁ !! Recite yourself and invite others to recite.
Radhaswami’s disallow this practice and mark disrespect to Gurbaani by anti-concept of it.
As much as you will recite, You will feel yourself near to the almighty Waheguru. Guru ji says,”Charan sharan Guru ek painda jaaye chal Satguru koat painda aage hoye let hain !!” ਚਰਣ ਸ਼ਰਣ ਗੁਰੂ ਏਕ ਪੈਂਡਾ ਜਾਇ ਚਲ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੋਟਿ ਪੈਂਡਾ ਆਗੇ ਹੋਇ ਲੇਤ ਹੈਂ !! You just proceed and put your first step on the true path, He will bestow all his happiness upon you and take care of you himself.
Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
The sounds that Radhaswamis hear in meditation are the sound created by their mind. These are not shabads of any realm. Radhaswami devotee sits in a squat way, place their hands on their eyes and ears and try to listen first to the sound of a Ghanta (bell). Before sitting in this Aalti Paalti Aasan (Transcendent meditation position) they repeat their Varnatmak (bestowed) Naam for sometime. Then they try to listen to these sounds. First of all when you place hands on your ears, you can hear the sounds of your body. They get excited by this. Then when your mind wants to hear the sound of bell from the right corner of your brain, your mind will create that sound for you. What’s so great about this. This is not the celestial sound that Gurbaani is talking about.
The real celestial sound is that sound that the true Devotee hears after his Dasam Duar opens. This sound is the sound from Sachkhand. It is the sound of mehima or sifat-salaah of Vaheguru going on in Sach Khand. It is bizarre that RS has placed Dasam Duar at the third level. First of all Dasam Duaar cannot be called a region. It is, as the name implies, a doorway from where you can access Sach Khand and hear and feel Sach Khand. How can it be merely third level as RaadhaSuaami suggests.
In Sikhism there is no living man called as Guru. A fabricated story( Historical facts suggest contrary to it) around Guru Gobind Singh ji's hidden life after 1708 AD is pretty good reason to believe that there is one's sect, set for a financial business. People can claim what they dream. In Sikhism there are ten Masters and eternal GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI ONLY. At the time of 9 th Master, there were people who would call themselves real Gurus, whose shops were closed eventually, new are opened and will keep opening due to financial and political reasons. As said" caravan goes on and the dogs bark on". Forgive me if any word I have used here and you don't like it. Radhaswamis should not call them Sikhs because Radha Swami word itself says clearly who they are !!!!!!!!
Money has a lot to do with the false baabaa, false guru syndrome. That and now an almost psychotic need to control others body, mind and soul. Sikhi is not alone in the emergence of human gurus. Many religions that claim One Transcendent God have people like this.
Guruji has words to live by on this topoic, !!
Pauree:
Aapae aap varathadhaa aap thaarree laaeean ਆਪਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਆਪਿ ਥਾਰੀ ਲਾਈਅਨ !!
He Himself is all-pervading; He Himself is absorbed in the profound state of Samaadhi. aapae Hee oupadhaesadhaa guramukh patheeaaeean
He Himself instructs; the Gurmukh is satisfied and fulfilled.
Eaapae oujharr paaeian eik bhagathee laaeian
Some, He causes to wander in the wilderness, while others are committed to His devotional worship.
Jis aap bujhaaeae so bujhasee aapae naae laaeean ਜਿਸ ਆਪਿ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਬ੍ਝ੍ਸੀ ਆਪਿ ਨਾਇ ਲਾਈਅਨ
He alone understands, whom the Lord causes to understand; He Himself attaches mortals to His Name.
Naanak naam dhhiaaeeai sachee vaddiaaee ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਧਿਆਈਏ ਸਾਚੀ ਵਡੀਆਈ 211 sudhh
O Nanak, meditating on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, true greatness is obtained. 211 Sudh
More than He and Himself, and more than meditation on His Name is un-necessary. Sikhs do not need another Guru.
Well this is said about the differences of Sikhs and Radhaswamis (who are not Sikhs). Their sect allows all to join and follow their sect irrespective of their (follower’s) religion. The number of Hindu people -joined this sect is no less now-a-days. A few would be aware of the fact that in the beginning of any Hawan, Yagya or any holy per formations, Lord Ganesha is worshipped first of all-OM SHRI GANESHAY NAMAH !! Ganesh ji is also known as LAMBODAR – means the person with long stomach/belly. LADDOO is his favorite of GANESHA. So all the devotees offer LADDOO to their deity in temples. In the other words I can say that one cannot worship empty stomach-BHOOKHE BHAJAN NAA HOI GOPALA, means one cannot concentrate in meditation if he is hungry.
In human body all the deities of Hindus have been placed at different places. The place of Lord Ganesha is in the NABHI/BELLY or you can call it in the stomach as related to feed the hungar. First feed yourself and then perform your Pooja etc.
Maharaj (so-called) CHARANJEET SINGH JI who was well qualified has written in his book that the place of Lord Ganesha is at the human’s *** (GUDA), from where the stool is passed. Can you believe the place of a deity is at such a dirty place-unbelieveable but it is true. I have read the book of him (Maharaj charan jeet Singh’s)
Now the readers may justify the findings of this sect. Hindus and Sikhs may decide if the teachings of this fraud sect, whether taking them away from their religion? Are not they becoming victims of sweet venom distributed to them in sweet of false preachings? Just decide yourself and i request you to follow your own faith/religion.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.
Ajmer ji
You can include your blog address as long as it is not to a commercial site. In fact your blog address Sikhs and Radhaswami sect
is right here on this thread one post up, and again 3 posts up, and Aman Singh ji went to the blog, and expressed he found it very informative.
Sometimes people will put a web site or blog address in their signature. Then I have to remove it if it navigates to a for-pay download site, or a restaurant, things of that nature. Or to a broken link, to a site advocating illegal activities, a porn site. ETC.
It also helps if you have a link back to Sikh Philosophy Network on a blog or web site so that people can either visit here -- or they can read about your blog here at SPN and then navigate back from your blog too.
You can include your blog address as long as it is not to a commercial site. In fact your blog address Sikhs and Radhaswami sect
is right here on this thread one post up, and again 3 posts up, and Aman Singh ji went to the blog, and expressed he found it very informative.
Sometimes people will put a web site or blog address in their signature. Then I have to remove it if it navigates to a for-pay download site, or a restaurant, things of that nature. Or to a broken link, to a site advocating illegal activities, a porn site. ETC.
It also helps if you have a link back to Sikh Philosophy Network on a blog or web site so that people can either visit here -- or they can read about your blog here at SPN and then navigate back from your blog too.
I read AjmerJi's blog and got info which I did not have. As I told earlier, I have some Radhsoami relatives.
But a common man needs some place where they can go unhindered and without much rituals and they find such a place at the dera . We can not blame anyone. We have to develop our community points attractive enough to masses.
Like we do in North America. More people go to Gurudwara here than India. I am talking of street Gurudwaras. ... I may be wrong but we need to make it possible for all to come in.
But a common man needs some place where they can go unhindered and without much rituals and they find such a place at the dera . We can not blame anyone. We have to develop our community points attractive enough to masses.
Like we do in North America. More people go to Gurudwara here than India. I am talking of street Gurudwaras. ... I may be wrong but we need to make it possible for all to come in.
Ajmer singh Randhawa
SPNer
Yes I agree with the suggestion by ballym and thank him for this. To day is the need of Gurbani vichar in Gurudwara's as i have noticed through my research work, i have concluded our weakness as the sikh parents and children just keep on chanting thy naam, recite Paath daily but do not understand the message of Guru. We, do not understand what Guru ji is saying? These Deredar/dehdhari Gurus knows our weakness so they translate Gurbani to the congregation but with wrong means, generally choose those shabads, salookas etc, which glorify them or their need in society.
So it is the duty of all Presidents/ committee's of Gurudwara's in every part of the world to spread this message and classes, seminars/programmes on Gurbani vichar be held weekly.
Regards and Guru fateh !
So it is the duty of all Presidents/ committee's of Gurudwara's in every part of the world to spread this message and classes, seminars/programmes on Gurbani vichar be held weekly.
Regards and Guru fateh !
hi everyone! all I wanted to say was that understanding another belief system whether it be a religion or the radha soami path does not mean you're turning your back on your own religion. i like to add that the quote that tejwant wrote is very important in the search for enlightenment "i am a seeker. someone once wrote: seek the company of those who seek truth. fear the company of those who have found it". this is VERY important, we should never be sure of anything, for all we know there is no god but i understand its nice to think there is. i been to the gurdwara over my life time, and in all honesty have not gained anything from it. i went to a radha soami sat sung when baba gurinder was in town and found it very interesting. i'm not sold on the idea but i like what i heard. i personally think when people insult radha soami(usually without reading about it unbiasedly) it comes from a place of insecurity in their own faith. why can't people believe whatever they want? after all its an individual path...
Dear NavNav Ji
I agree wholeheartedly with you last sentence about tolerance for other paths
I am happy to be tolerant so long as the followers of such paths do their own thing and don't try to infringe my personal freedoms or shovel their own belief systems on to me when I am not interested
Sadly that doesn't always happen does it?
Incidentally, I have had many years exposure to RS through family and friends and have come to my own conclusions without any personal insecurities
It's good you are speaking out here and I would urge you to do some of what you said in your post i.e read more about it unbiasedly
In particular, may I suggest you do some research on the Beas and Agra lineages, (and the other ones if you like as there are a few), why the different lineages emerged in the first place and the differences in the Naam, the initiation process and the relationship between Master and disciple
With regard to the different lineages in particular, you may find there was no spiritual reasons for the divergence but it was more an issue of disagreement over successorship and who should next take over the "Gaddi"
Hardly attributes of a Perfect Master in my humble opinion....
Once you have done this, feel free to share your thoughts and we can continue the discussion
Best regards
rangesingh:View attachment 3683Dear fellow SPN'ers
Whilst browsing some material from a site relating to the Agra RS sect, I came across a map of the spiritual realms as they understand it
I have attempted to attach it to this thread but have never done that befor eon SPN so hope it works!
Whilst browsing some material from a site relating to the Agra RS sect, I came across a map of the spiritual realms as they understand it
I have attempted to attach it to this thread but have never done that befor eon SPN so hope it works!
Attachments
I tend to avoid relying on links but this one has a lot of detailed background about RS which some may find interesting:
http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.html
http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.html
hey seeker! i underdstand what you're saying and i thank you for not responding without thinking. but i do have more questions about sikhism. i am new on here is there a different way to correspond/?
and again to clearify i'm not sold on the RS idea. but i think its important as seekers to never fully agree with any path and always have doubts. i can look at RS and pick out things i like and dislike. samething in sikhism, samething in hinduism and so on.. this is because the actual teachers are not here and human beings never play a fair game of telephone
and again to clearify i'm not sold on the RS idea. but i think its important as seekers to never fully agree with any path and always have doubts. i can look at RS and pick out things i like and dislike. samething in sikhism, samething in hinduism and so on.. this is because the actual teachers are not here and human beings never play a fair game of telephone
Wise words my young friend!
Best way to correspond is via this forum..you will find there are many more learned individuals than I here who will be more than happy to help you increase your understanding of the Sikh Scriptures
I certainly have learned a lot in the few months I have been here
welcomemunda
alrighty. why do people believe the guru granth sahib is a guru and not just a msg of the gurus? why cant we point our feet towards it? is that not idol worship? because i heard a story about how guru nanak was sleeping with his feet pointed toward i believe the kabba and muslims told him that god resides there and asked him not to point his feet there. to which he replied by saying point his feet in a direction were god isnt. whats makes the guru granth sahib different?
So What should we do? Put the holy book down..or keep it with other books... or make it our pillow? You have questioned why we do not put feet towards it. Did Guru Nanak say that Mecca is Bad or Quraan is Bad? No... now you will say that you never said it either.... but you meant to engage us in this conversation on these lines. I am sure you want to steer us towards RS idea that it is a mere book.
( on a side note... why this book was revered till about 1954 in Dera Beas etc)
So please let us know what we should do.... instead of finding faults.. show us the way and why we should follow that path.W hat different message you have. Please let us know so that we are not left behind.
( on a side note... why this book was revered till about 1954 in Dera Beas etc)
So please let us know what we should do.... instead of finding faults.. show us the way and why we should follow that path.W hat different message you have. Please let us know so that we are not left behind.
I think it's a good question.
It's all about showing the utmost respect for Sri Guru Granth SahibJ but when does respect stray into ritual and idolatory?
There have been some similar threads on SPN already which you may want to look at:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/24439-idol-worship-of-aggs-2.html
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/9104-idolatry-of-Sri Guru Granth Sahib.html
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