Inspirational Who Are You. Really?

[japjisahib04]

I was just metaphorically (since you guys all like metaphors) trying to explain how there are two groups who interpret gurbani completely differently, and even though I tried to say that both meaning could be gotten from it, you guys all jumped in with responses to the effect of 'Gurbani was written for THIS LIFE ONLY' I believe it was actually in caps too... so basically we can never meet in the middle in how we interpret it. Hence, the box... I was willing to look at the possibility of both meanings being there (I was looking outside my box) while you guys refused to look at that possibility instead believing only the purely secular / atheistic interpretation and completely disregarding at all any possible spiritual meaning. I was trying to show that both groups can never possibly agree... and so I was done trying to 'sell' anything. It was never meant as an attack. But your response clearly was... and it hurt deeply. That's when I realized that I have to leave here. (The only reason I am still here is because I keep getting emails about new posts... and I can't figure out how to delete my account)

Also, I never spoke anything bad about any specific person or even mentioned the forum on Sikhawareness... I was upset and crying after your post. And on there, yes, I said I don't know how Sikhs can claim to be Sikhs when they personally attack someone. I always thought all Sikhs were supposed to explore the truth on their own, and to be attacked for it and for simply stating that I don't think we can ever agree... if you want to see the whole context of my post on sikhawareness it's here (since I also know you support reading quotes in their entire context):

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/...wers-by-sant-baba-darshan-singh-dhakki-sahib/

Akashaji

No body drove you away from the forum. It is how you took it. When you sent me PM calling me full of athiest - did I react, did I cry? It proves I am in a better state of mind. You wanted to discuss 'going beyond the physical" and "seeing things that can't be unseen" such as spirits, astral projection and recollecting past lives. I believe you were referring to tanktrics. My guru teaches me to look inside first to be a better human beings but you were directing me towards spirits and guru sahib cautions me, 'ਆਪਿ ਨਾਥੁ ਨਾਥੀ ਸਭ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਅਵਰਾ ਸਾਦ ॥ and tells me, 'ਉਲਟੀ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਉਲਟੀ ਰੇ ॥ ਸਾਕਤ ਸਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਉਲਟੀ ਰੇ ॥ ਝੂਠੈ ਕੀ ਰੇ ਝੂਠੁ ਪਰੀਤਿ ਛੁਟਕੀ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਛੁਟਕੀ ਰੇ ਸਾਕਤ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਛੁਟਕੀ ਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ p.535. I hope I am clear now.

Further, you were so glad to read baba jee comment 'Hence in the Kal Yug the darkness is dominant but you also have some saatch (light/truth/wisdom), and in the Saatch Yug you will also have some kal (darkness/ignorance), but the saatch will be dominant. Right now the kal is dominant, but it doesn't last.' but Guru sahib is talking of present life and telling something different

ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੁ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਰਥੁ ਇਕੁ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥
O Nanak, the controller of the body has one chariot and one charioteer.

ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਅਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥
In age after age they change; the spiritually wise understand this.

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਕਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥
When I was born, I was pious and pure - my mind was fully contended, contentment was the chariot and righteousness the charioteer and that was satyug.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਰਥੁ ਜਤੈ ਕਾ ਜੋਰੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥
As I grew due to my environment and divineless teaching, celibacy was the chariot and power the charioteer but I never bother to improve and as such fallen to the state of 'tratai yug'

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਰਥੁ ਤਪੈ ਕਾ ਸਤੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥
Since I was not willing to imbibe the divine message, I thought penace is the truth and started wasting time in rituals, supersititons, meditation thus fallen further and i.e. the state of 'duaper yug.'

ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਕਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥੧॥
Finally I am fallen to the fourth stage i.e. when fire is the chariot and falsehood the charioteer and as such my body is now full of kal kal. i.e. the state of kalyug. ||1||

I didn't purposely translated, ' ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਅਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥ which as per my understanding by ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ -imbibing the divine trait I find the technique to flip back from state of kalyug to duaper, traitai and finally state of satyug and not as baba jee is preaching.

 

[japjisahib04]

Sir you circumvented my question ,so let me repeat ..

I fail to understand why do we get involved into this type of exercise. Is any teeka authentic that you are asking me to believe? If you need any clarification tell me which pankti makes you believe about incarnation. I will try with evidence.

 

[chazSingh]

no it isnt, a nasty state of affairs is what is happening in Iraq, where Ravi Singh happens to be right now, thats nasty, this is not nasty, thisis not even in the nasty league.

if you look beyond all the violence, the 'scale' of worldly events...
it is the same emotions, the same Ego, Desire, Greed, Anger etc that occurs on internet forums, in family arguments, in schools bullying, the control of a gurdwara.....everything.

it makes no difference...its all the same...just at a different scale..

that is why gurbani says...clean yourself up first..we can;t change the world if we ourselves are part of the problem..

anglosikh ji is correct...the world gives you a million opinions...and the only time you know what is correct is when you pick up the apple and take a bite yourself...that's your proof...nothing else..

forums are not a bad place...yes, they can bring out the worst in you...i.e. wanting to be correct, Ego, anger, getting upset etc...

BUT you know what, if you recognize those emotions and think "oh my God, i need to change because these emotions are within me...i don;t want to associate with these emotions any longer"

then this kind of interaction is in fact a 'blessing' ... but only if one recognises those emotions and tries to change...otherwise running away is never the solution...

 

[chazSingh]

You wanted to discuss 'going beyond the physical" and "seeing things that can't be unseen" such as spirits, astral projection and recollecting past lives.

From my experience, all of the above exists...
but if we keep our attention on Gurbani, we will bypass them all on a 'express' elevator (so to speak) and get to our destination...

the internet is full of people engrossed in astral travelling, talking to spirits etc etc...but all they;ve done is shift their desire, ego, etc to another plane...same problem, different place...

Gurbani will uplift us past all of these creation, and beyond it...

 

[chazSingh]

I fail to understand why do we get involved into this type of exercise. Is any teeka authentic that you are asking me to believe? If you need any clarification tell me which pankti makes you believe about incarnation. I will try with evidence.

I think Harmanpreets question is purposeful...

is there any(even single one ) translation or teeka of Guru Granth sahib ji that you agree with ,be in any languge English or Gurmukhi ?

if there is or isn't then, then please state so...

 

[chazSingh]

That's not what I said. All I wanted to know is what happens when someone hears the celestial music. Do they find inner peace, or is there something more (such as talking to spirits, astral projection and recollecting past lives)? I felt that your insistence on "going beyond the physical" and "seeing things that can't be unseen" warranted this inquiry.

Sherdil ji,

i have gained a lot of respect for you, and insight from your interactions on this forum over the past few months

i have liked that regardless of what others say you have gone away and looked in Gurbani and uncovered many great shabads that have got myself and many others contemplating and wondering at the amazement of what is potentially being described.

There are many, many shabads that describe what happens when you hear the celestial music...they will give you an insight into it...please uncover them.

then my friend i hope one day through your sikhi practice you hear it for yourself because that will be true experience rather then descriptive...

God Bless my friend

 

[chazSingh]

Hmm...

This is a nasty state of affairs. Just how things go on the internet, I have come to realise. The internet only brings out the worst in good people. I've tried to stop using forums before as well. But they're too addictive. You get sucked in, wanting to be right, feeling this urge to correct and contradict and dispute. But in the end it's meaningless.

Advice for Akasha and the others: do not assume that the attitude you see on the internet is the real one. If people seem rude or arrogant or off-putting, then this is because they are communicating by little messages and are separated by thousands of miles. In real life, they're not bad people. You will find Sangat, true Sangat, in the Gurdwaras, with your families, in your neighbourhood. You won't find that online.

Nicely said ji,

greatest lesson from these interactions, not to take things too personally...

but the reality is also, that people are realising like you said the limitations of such virtual sangat and not face to face sangat...

 

[Parma]

if you look beyond all the violence, the 'scale' of worldly events...
it is the same emotions, the same Ego, Desire, Greed, Anger etc that occurs on internet forums, in family arguments, in schools bullying, the control of a gurdwara.....everything.

it makes no difference...its all the same...just at a different scale..

that is why gurbani says...clean yourself up first..we can;t change the world if we ourselves are part of the problem..

anglosikh ji is correct...the world gives you a million opinions...and the only time you know what is correct is when you pick up the apple and take a bite yourself...that's your proof...nothing else..

forums are not a bad place...yes, they can bring out the worst in you...i.e. wanting to be correct, Ego, anger, getting upset etc...

BUT you know what, if you recognize those emotions and think "oh my God, i need to change because these emotions are within me...i don;t want to associate with these emotions any longer"

then this kind of interaction is in fact a 'blessing' ... but only if one recognises those emotions and tries to change...otherwise running away is never the solution...

I do hope that wars are not started on such trivial matters such as attitudes but more on necessities. If an attitude is a formation for war, then I would suggest we all just stop and commit suicide, what a pathetic civilization we have then created. Sometimes we might have a fight over an attitude of personal offence but war is the most serious subject. The difference of having a common punch up and destroying someone are different measured forces. That is why power in the hands of just a few is always dangerous. If people look at there own attitudes to me nothing is perfect but God. No matter how nice or bad you are they will judge you. They try to judge God, but the reality and truth is in the learning and judging of your own self! Floating on the surface will not show the depths of the sea.

 

[harmanpreet singh]

I think Harmanpreets question is purposeful...

is there any(even single one ) translation or teeka of Guru Granth sahib ji that you agree with ,be in any languge English or Gurmukhi ?

if there is or isn't then, then please state so...

Chaz ji , even Japjisahib ji s silence means a lot to me .