Who Is Guru In Sikhism

[Honey22]

Lalihayer Ji,

All these lines shows the unending humility in Guru Ji, That advocates His Greatness-nobody equal to Him, He is the Lord Himself. Great Job you have done by selecting these quotes for the Sangat, reminded Guru Ji's greatest virtues. Shukrya Janaab.

 

[SadeePuri]

Harsimran ji,
You said that One line or the whole Shabad, Guru’s Word doesn’t change meanings Lalihayer Ji. Here are some tuks from Gurubani. If we take these literally without taking into consideration whole shabad and context, do you agree with literal meaning.

Guru Nanak Dev says on Page 153, Line 5
ਹਉ ਪਾਪੀ ਤੂੰ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਏਕ ॥੧॥
I am a sinner - You alone are pure. ||1||


Guru Ram Das says Page 167, Line 5
ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਦੁਆਰਿ ॥
O my Lord, I am a sinner; I have come to Your Sanctuary, and fallen at Your Door, Lord.


Guru Ram Das says on Page 172, Line 11
ਹਮ ਅਪਰਾਧ ਪਾਪ ਬਹੁ ਕੀਨੇ ਕਰਿ ਦੁਸਟੀ ਚੋਰ ਚੁਰਾਇਆ ॥
I am a sinner - I have committed so many sins; I am a villainous, thieving thief.


Guru Nanak Dev says on Page 228, Line 9
ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਕਉ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਰੀਐ ॥
I am a worthless sinner, without merit. What merit do I have?

Guru Nanak Dev says on Page 12, Line 4
ਨਾ ਹਉ ਜਤੀ ਸਤੀ ਨਹੀ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੂਰਖ ਮੁਗਧਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਭਇਆ ॥
I am not celibate, nor truthful, nor scholarly. I was born foolish and ignorant into this world.


Guru Arjan Dev says on Page 51, Line 17
ਭੂਲਹਿ ਚੂਕਹਿ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥
Like a foolish child, I have made mistakes. O Lord, You are my Father and Mother. ||1||


Guru Ram Das says on Page 172, Line 7
ਹਮ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੀ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਮਤਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥
I am egotistical and conceited, and my intellect is ignorant. Meeting the Guru, my selfishness and conceit have been abolished.

Laiheyer Ji, you have brought tears in my eyes, Great is Guru Ji's Humilty, the direct proof of Him being the Lord-Almighty.

Thanks a million.

 

[lalihayer]

Harsimran ji, You were taking every tuk literally in earlier posts. Why exception here?

 

[Honey22]

To whom are you addressing this question Lalihayer Ji?

 

[Honey22]

By the way is there anything wrong in Believing, Respecting Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji's every line?
Isn't each line, each word is WORD OF GOD?

 

[SadeePuri]

By the way is there anything wrong in Believing, Respecting Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji's every line?
Isn't each line, each word is WORD OF GOD?

People use different ways to respect Guru Ji, Honey22 Ji. One's way may clash with other's. I respect every word of Baba Ji. I believe : Jo BabaJi keh rahe ne oh sach hi sach hai, baraa anand hai es vich.

 

[SadeePuri]

Harsimran ji, You were taking every tuk literally in earlier posts. Why exception here?

Thankyou Ji for adding the name of the person Ji.

 

[lalihayer]

By the way is there anything wrong in Believing, Respecting Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji's every line?
Isn't each line, each word is WORD OF GOD?

No, nothing wrong in it. Every word is guru for us. But it would be much better if we understand what Guru Saheban are saying (rather than just reading it loud) and put it in our lives too.
Guru Nanak says on 595 says
ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥
Sorat'h, First Mehl, First House:

ਮਨੁ ਹਾਲੀ ਕਿਰਸਾਣੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਰਮੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਤਨੁ ਖੇਤੁ ॥
Make your mind the farmer, good deeds the farm, modesty the water, and your body the field.

ਨਾਮੁ ਬੀਜੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸੁਹਾਗਾ ਰਖੁ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਵੇਸੁ ॥
Let the Lord's Name be the seed, contentment the plow, and your humble dress the fence.

ਭਾਉ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਿ ਜੰਮਸੀ ਸੇ ਘਰ ਭਾਗਠ ਦੇਖੁ ॥੧॥
Doing deeds of love, the seed shall sprout, and you shall see your home flourish. ||1||

ਬਾਬਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
O Baba, the wealth of Maya does not go with anyone.

ਇਨਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਗੁ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
This Maya has bewitched the world, but only a rare few understand this. ||Pause||

ਹਾਣੁ ਹਟੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਰਜਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਥੁ ॥
Make your ever-decreasing life your shop, and make the Lord's Name your merchandise.

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੋਚ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਂਡਸਾਲ ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਤਿਸ ਨੋ ਰਖੁ ॥
Make understanding and contemplation your warehouse, and in that warehouse, store the Lord's Name.

ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ਸਿਉ ਵਣਜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੈ ਲਾਹਾ ਮਨ ਹਸੁ ॥੨॥
Deal with the Lord's dealers, earn your profits, and rejoice in your mind. ||2||



ਸੁਣਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਸਉਦਾਗਰੀ ਸਤੁ ਘੋੜੇ ਲੈ ਚਲੁ ॥
Let your trade be listening to scripture, and let Truth be the horses you take to sell.

ਖਰਚੁ ਬੰਨੁ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਮਤੁ ਮਨ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਕਲੁ ॥
Gather up merits for your travelling expenses, and do not think of tomorrow in your mind.

ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕੈ ਦੇਸਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਤਾ ਸੁਖਿ ਲਹਹਿ ਮਹਲੁ ॥੩॥
When you arrive in the land of the Formless Lord, you shall find peace in the Mansion of His Presence. ||3||

ਲਾਇ ਚਿਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਮੰਨਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਕੰਮੁ ॥
Let your service be the focusing of your consciousness, and let your occupation be the placing of faith in the Naam.

ਬੰਨੁ ਬਦੀਆ ਕਰਿ ਧਾਵਣੀ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਧੰਨੁ ॥
Let your work be restraint from sin; only then will people call you blessed.

ਨਾਨਕ ਵੇਖੈ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਚਵਗਣ ਵੰਨੁ ॥੪॥੨॥
O Nanak, the Lord shall look upon you with His Glance of Grace, and you shall be blessed with honor four times over. ||4||2||


What is the point of bowing head in front of our guru and reciting it everyday, if we can't understand meaning of this shabad and put into our life?

 

[Honey22]

Guru makes us understand Lalihayer Ji, who are we to understand anything. We can only bow our heads, what else can we do, if we cant surrender, cant come under His Hukam, HOW WILL WE BECOME CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING HIM?

Prabh Dori haath tumaarey

He is the greatest of the greatest, teaches us all. Each Word-Each Line-Each Shabad- leading to the Whole Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji. NO DIFFERENCE REMAIN IN THE END.
Hukam rajai chalana naanak likhea naal.

 

[lalihayer]

Lalihayer Ji,

All these lines shows the unending humility in Guru Ji, That advocates His Greatness-nobody equal to Him, He is the Lord Himself. Great Job you have done by selecting these quotes for the Sangat, reminded Guru Ji's greatest virtues. Shukrya Janaab.

You know I chose these sentences from Gurbani to show Harsimran Singh ji that we can't take every line literally.
I agree that there is no difference between Lord and Gurus.
But what do you think, bhagats are also Lord? If yes, then what are your opinion about Mardana and Bhatt, they are Lord too? Where do you draw the line? Please don't say you see Lord in hindu idols too.

 

[lalihayer]

Guru makes us understand Lalihayer Ji, who are we to understand anythig.

Prabh Dori haath tumaarey

He is the greatest of the greatest, teaches us all. Each Word-Each Line-Each Shabad- leading to the Whole Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji. NO DIFFERENCE REMAIN IN THE END.

I am hard determinist too. But are you saying you can reach to Lord without any effort on your part?

 

[Honey22]

Tan vi tera, Man vi tera--- what is mine? nothing- so who is me? nothing.

tera tujh ko soanp te kia laage mera.

 

[Honey22]

Whose effort?----KARTA PURKH who is!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lalihayer]

Guru makes us understand Lalihayer Ji, who are we to understand anything. We can only bow our heads, what else can we do, if we cant surrender, cant come under His Hukam, HOW WILL WE BECOME CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING HIM?
.

Gurus did all the efforts to collect bhagat bani from all the sources all over india and then got Guru Granth Sahib written with hard work of months just to make sure Guru's sikhs can get directions from 'shabad guru' after Gurus merge with Lord.
And sikhs could only bow their head in front Guru Granth? No effort is needed to understand Guru's message?

 

[Honey22]

Gurus did all the efforts to collect bhagat bani from all the sources all over india and then got Guru Granth Sahib written with hard work of months just to make sure Guru's sikhs can get directions from 'shabad guru' after Gurus merge with Lord.
And sikhs could only bow their head in front Guru Granth? No effort is needed to understand Guru's message?

Wow

 

[spnadmin]

Honey22 and lalihayer jios

Just my two cents worth of understanding. You are both talking about vichaar and you are both standing in the same river. This river has two strong currents that are rushing past one another. One current is a current of understanding. The other current is also a current of understanding. They are parallel to one another but they are found in the same river. The sound made by these two currents is so loud that it is hard for a person standing in one current to hear what the other person is saying. One current is the current of mental effort. The other current is the current of Guru's kirpa. The force of these currents is the same - they flow by the Glance of His Grace.

Please forgive me.

 

[Honey22]

Honey22 and lalihayer jios

Just my two cents worth of understanding. You are both talking about vichaar and you are both standing in the same river. This river has two strong currents that are rushing past one another. One current is a current of understanding. The other current is also a current of understanding. They are parallel to one another but they are found in the same river. The sound made by these two currents is so loud that it is hard for a person standing in one current to hear what the other person is saying. One current is the current of mental effort. The other current is the current of Guru's kirpa. The force of these currents is the same - they flow by the Glance of His Grace.

Please forgive me.

For me neech moorkh anna, the Glance of His Grace is Guru Kirpa

 

[spnadmin]

Honey22 ji

And what about mental effort? Not by the Glance of His Grace? Excuse me i am cross-eyed.

 

[Honey22]

Mind is His not mine Ji.

Mann vi tera Tann vi Tera. Mind and Body both are His Property:happy:

 

[spnadmin]

That is true. That is why two currents are flowing in the same river. Mais non?

Actually I am cheating now because there is a rule - No participating if moderating - May have to stop.