Who Is Marrying Sikh Men?

[rajneesh madhok]

This thread is redirected from a different thread, entitled Can Sikh Girl Marry a Hindu Boy? The discussion took a turn away from the main topic and began to look at who Sikh women in fact marry. Are they marrying Sikh Men in lesser percentages. Is this a trend toward more inter-faith marriages with Hindus, Muslims, Christians or other faiths.

The thread begins with quoted material that marks the place where the discussion veered into its new direction. You can track the other discussion at

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-rehat-maryada/33861-can-sikh-girl-marry-hindu-boy.html

I know a lot of Sikh men married to Hindu girls (usually always Hindu Punjabi), but not many Sikh girls married to Hindu's. The Hindu's Sikh girls have married tend to be Punjabi as well.animatedkhanda1

Dear Randip ji,

Your perception is wrong. You will find more than 75% sikh girls married to Hindu boys than Hindu girls to Sikh boys. Kindly make random checking around your house and conclude yourself. The reason I don't know but the fact is that:

The truth about conversions most Sikhs go on and on about Sikh girls converting to Islam well Sikh girls convert to Hinduism more than Islam,across the world we all know someone who is Sikh girl married to a Hindu or have a relative who has done this.

Wednesday, 13 February 2008
Converting by lies and Deception (Hindu Gangs target Sikh Girls)


It is well know and established fact that Sikh girls openly marry and convert to Hinduism on a mass scale in India and all over the world.

Last year alone their were 1500 Sikhs girls marring Hindus. At a rate of 4 conversions a day In India. From Scotland to England it is the same story every where.

Questions we must ask ourselves?

• Is it expectable in Sikh religion for Sikh girls to marry a Hindu? • Is this all a common Sikh practice or is it done by deception and fraud?

Is it expectable in Sikh religion for Sikh girls to marry Hindu?

Answer: No, it’s against the Sikh rehait maryada. As it states very clearly

Article XVIII

a. A Sikh man and woman should enter wedlock without giving thought to the prospective spouse's caste and descent.
b. A Sikh's daughter must be married to a Sikh.
c. A Sikh's marriage should be solemnized by Anand marriage rites.

http://www.sgpc.net/...hap_eleven.html

Is this all a common Sikh practice or is it done by deception and fraud?

Answer: yes it is done under false pretences deception and fraud.

Their main argument is that Sikhs are Hindus and its okay as Sikhism is a part of Hindu religion. Hindus openly wears karas and kanda chains to pretend to be half Sikhs and lure Sikh girls into this false scene of security. Then sikhi becomes history, when these Hindu gangs tell our girls the following things:


• There is no need to be Sikh any more as we have are own country. The Sikhs were created as an army of the Hindus to protect the Brahmins

• We don’t need to be protected by Sikh army anymore as we have the Indian army, we know that Indian army is better then Sikhs as we learn in 1984.

We are the Stupid ones that allow Non-Sikhs to marry our Girls In Gurdwaras. These Gangs must be think we can go to the Gurdwara and get free food, but these fools are letting us marry their girls to!

Below is a real life story of a Sikh Girl:


Amanpreet Kaur Marries a Hindu

http://www.realsikhi.../amanpreet.html

By Amanpreet Kaur
June 2003

I am Amanpreet Kaur, a 22 year old girl born in Ludhiana, Punjab. When I was 19, studying BCA, I fell in love with a Hindu boy named Sameer. We would talk for hours and it was clear that he loved me back. We would always talk about living a happy life together but never really discussed religion.

Religion is a big part of life in India. Indians are very religious people. My family was religious but they hardly told me anything about Sikhism. Everything I learned about Sikhism was from the school in which I studied ‘till twelfth grade. I knew about Guru Nanak Dev Ji and his teachings and that Sikhs are to worship one God only. I knew a little bit of the history, Sikhs fighting with Muslim emperor Aurengzeb to save Hindus. But little did I knew about differences between Sikhism and Hinduism. All I knew was Sikhs do not believe in caste system and do not worship Hindu Gods like Brahma, Krishan, Ganesh, Durga, Kali etc, as mukti (salvation) can only be attained through the meditation on One God, who is above all.

Sameer told me that I do not have to convert to Hinduism in order to marry him. He told me that I can still practice Sikhism if I wanted to. Marrying a Hindu didn’t seem a big of deal to me but my parents told me that I should marry someone with the similar belief system, a Sikh. There arose a huge fight in our family but blinded by love I insisted to marry Sameer only.

Anyway, we got married. Our marriage was conduct according to Hindu marriage ceremony. Everything was going well for the first couple of weeks until his parents started forcing me to do Durga Puja (worship). I resisted but they said it is the practice of their family and I have to do it. I told Sameer and found him surprisingly in agreement with his parents. He said I can perform Sikh practices but being in their family I have to do Durga Puja.

The conflict started arising not only because of Durga Puja but also due to daily Hindu rituals. For example always referring to Hindu Gods while talking, fasting for certain periods, considering fire as sacred, and much more.

They kept forcing me and taunting me and I started performing Durga Puja. I felt very awkward worshipping the stone statue of Durga. One day I decided to search the online version of Guru Granth Sahib about what my Guru says about performing other worships. I found out that Guru Ji condemns the worship of anyone else except God.

As I read more and more of Guru Granth Sahib and some of the articles written by Sikhs, my eyes lit and I was amazed that my Guru offers such beautiful and true teaching. I felt embarrassed for not knowing it until now. Everything a girl could ever imagine is in Sikhism. Guru ji gave women equal status as of men, equal rights and self-respect. My Guru made me a princess by giving me the last name, Kaur. I felt really ashamed and embarrassed having betrayed my Guru.

The next morning I told Sameer that I will no longer perform Durga Puja. When my mother-in-law heard this from Sameer, she became furious and started cursing me. And started telling Sameer that he should leave me. That morning I did not perform Durga Puja. One day Sameer came home and told me to get ready. I asked him the reason and he said it is a surprise. I had no idea where he was taking me until he took me to a mandir (Hindu Temple). He had tricked me to go to the mandir to do Durga Puja. I refused to get out of the car. He kept trying and even tried to drag me. Watching my resistance, he became furious and drove back home. He did not say a word and when we went in our room he slapped me. The slap was so unexpected and hard that I fell on the ground. I started crying and he started yelling. I wept for the whole night.

Slowly our marriage grew apart and we got divorced. I still regret my decision of getting married to Sameer. Sometimes our emotions make us blind and all we want to see is what suits our eyes and we ignore everything else, unaware of what we ignored will come back to haunt us. My advice to all Sikh girls is to marry a Sikh so that there would be no room for religious conflicts.

Rajneesh Madhok

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Can Sikh Girl Marry A Hindu Boy?

rajneesh ji

I have edited your comments by putting "quote" brackets around the quoted material. It was difficult to tell your thoughts from quoted material. I hope I got it right btw. If not, let me know and I will fix it. Thanks for providing some reference material to ponder. Thanks for citing the SRM.

 

[kds1980]

Re: Can Sikh Girl Marry A Hindu Boy?

Dear Randip ji,

Your perception is wrong. You will find more than 75% sikh girls married to Hindu boys than Hindu girls to Sikh boys. Kindly make random checking around your house and conclude yourself. The reason I don't know but the fact is that:

Rajneesh ji

Almost all the sikh sites have users Which belongs to elite class ,so looking around will bring the facts of elite society of sikhs as there is hardly any participation of middle class
lower middle class and poor sikhs on sikh sites.Looking around will bring only stats of elite class of sikhs Which is not true.

From past 15-20 years this issue is coming up.Sikhs Girls marrying Hindu's muslims or other religion.Already sikhs have more young men than women because female foeticide.Now the big question is who is marrying sikh guys? as in 15 years we should have truck load stock of unmarried sikh men if no one is marrying them,but that is not true.

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Can Sikh Girl Marry A Hindu Boy?

Dear Randip ji,

Your perception is wrong. You will find more than 75% sikh girls married to Hindu boys than Hindu girls to Sikh boys. Kindly make random checking around your house and conclude yourself. The reason I don't know but the fact is that:

The truth about conversions most Sikhs go on and on about Sikh girls converting to Islam well Sikh girls convert to Hinduism more than Islam,across the world we all know someone who is Sikh girl married to a Hindu or have a relative who has done this.


Questions we must ask ourselves?

• Is it expectable in Sikh religion for Sikh girls to marry a Hindu? • Is this all a common Sikh practice or is it done by deception and fraud?

Is it expectable in Sikh religion for Sikh girls to marry Hindu?

Answer: No, it’s against the Sikh rehait maryada. As it states very clearly



Is this all a common Sikh practice or is it done by deception and fraud?

Answer: yes it is done under false pretences deception and fraud.



Below is a real life story of a Sikh Girl:


Amanpreet Kaur Marries a Hindu




Rajneesh Madhok

Rajneesh ji,

I know several Sikh men, (including one Amritdhari) in my social circle that have married Hindu women.

I only know two Sikh women who have married Hindu men (and even those two men go Gurudwara).

 

[kds1980]

Re: Can Sikh Girl Marry A Hindu Boy?

Your point that there should be truck load stock of unmarried sikh men if no one is marrying them,but that is not true.
You twisted the discussion, the discussion is based on inter-caste marriage and that is a hard fact that you will find 10 cases of marriage between Sikh girl with Hindu boy but will not find more than 1-2 marriages of Sikh boy with Hindu girls. I hope you would have followed my point.
http://fateh.sikhnet.com/Sikhnet/you...4002e61a4!Open
Regards,
Rajneesh Madhok

Rajneesh ji

I am not twisting the discussion.I am just seeking the statistical explanation.The discussion you are showing me is 10 year old and directed toward Keshdhari sikh men on the other hand It is now an open fact that Very large majority of sikhs live in Punjab and they are now clean shaven.No one even Knows How many clean shaven sikh men marry Hindu or Girls from other Religions as people as sikh community only care about Turbaned sikh men but on the other hand they take all kaurs irrespective of uncut hairs as Sikh women.

I am again repeating this question if Sikh Girls are marrying outside their faith and Male female Ratio is in Sikhism is not so good then Who is marrying Sikh men?

 

[savesikhism]

Re: Can Sikh Girl Marry A Hindu Boy?

Dear Sir,
Thanks for the reply. Now a quick stating of the facts. You are right that Sikh girls marry more to Hindu boys than Sikh boys to Hindu girls. Now reasons are subjective and depend case to case basis. But believe me if you investigate in more than 95% of cases you will find a fantastic planning on the part of boy and yes the girl already blinded by charm of the boy falls in to the trap laid.
Now some plain truths please don’t not get angry. Hindu boys go after Sikh girls’ bcz they are extremely beautiful and in majority cases professionally qualified earning handsome salary. Boy have having a perfect plan and execution to perfection succeeds in convincing the girl to marry and many cases you will find that in today’s times parents are supporting because their daughter is too much n love of that boy. But the sinister design in his mind is never known to girl or her family such as after marriage girl completely leaves Sikh religion and start following Hindu religion. Yes sometimes visiting to gurudwara continues. But can anyone answer how many Sikh girls do regular path’s (Japji sahib, Sukhmani Sahib) even after getting married to so called handsome hindu boyfriends???. Not even 1% f the entire population of the girls which goes into inter religion marriage. Believe me if they do they will opposition from their charming Hindu husbands and their families too. What to say about children they will be Hindu too after have a mundan as compared to keshgundan among Sikhs.
I was surfing other days on the web sites and found shocking stats that over 1500 plus Sikh girls have married into other religions in North America and England. Well a shocking and absolutely shocking revelation. What Sikh elders are doing???But we have a gentleman shredding salt on the wounds. And for the figured in our country believe me figures a will be much much higher.
Now for the double standards and double speak on the part of majority community. Why Hindu girls refuse to marry Sikh boys or more strictly speaking turbaned Sikh boys? You have mentioned many reasons such as education, thinking and so on. But I will just pin down to 2 major reasons for not marrying. They are 1) Turban, 2) Beard. If any Sikh boy (please read Sikh boy as turbaned Sikh boys) gets rid of these two proud elements then he is easily accepted .Please refer to any cases in your locality you will find them for sure in plenty.
Well I have just stated facts and reality what I have experienced. If this has pinched anybody then I am not all sorry because REALITY BITES and bites badly SOMETIMES SO MUCH. Thanks.
Best Regards
Navjeet

 

[kds1980]

Save sikhism

In other word you have already predicted slow death of Sikhism

 

[savesikhism]

Satsrikaal Sir,
Let me begin by apologizing for the wrong addressal of the topic to the wrong person. My response was actually for Rajneeshji rather then you. But as you have replied thanks so much for this. As you have stated that slow death of Sikhism I wish to disagree for some reasons and they are:
Yes that is true that Sikh girls continue to marry in to other religions but there are ample signs around us which gives us reassurance that not everything is finished and they are:
a) In my home town Kalka there was a kirtan darbar organized and all the leading raagi jathas came. The major point worth mentioning is that this was managed by the young Sikh boys and they did on their own and managed with perfection. Indeed Khalsa flag is flying high and will continue to fly so.
b) Second point is rejuvenated interest of the younger generation in gurudwara activities and indeed to some extent in daily Nitnem as well. I believe these guys and girls like these will carry our religion forward.
c) Increased awareness campaigns organized by various religious organizations have led the masses to get themselves in Nitnem thereby attaching them to their faith like never before.
d) We continue to talk about these girls getting married to other religions but we forget to discuss and remember that there are equal numbers of Sikh girls getting married in their religion only.
e) Increased awareness among Sikh guys about non acceptability of Sikh jokes. I found on other day on face book another boy stating that he has launched war on Sikh jokes.
f) Last not but the least but I will contribute my bit. Already I have started teaching my sweet little nephews aged 8 and 10 whenever I get time about lives of our great guru’s.
So I will request you all reading my comment to please do their own bit. Please do let me know you what you think. Thanks.

Best Regards
Navjeet

 

[dakkuSingh]

these are the facts.

1) A hindu girl only marries a sikh boy, if and only if he is exceptional. My two cuosin brother are married to an hindu girl. They are not just smart but super smart, intelligent and earning huge sum. Even after this, there was a reservation on the girl family part. I dont have resevation if a sikh girl marries an exception hindu guy. But most of the hindu boys sikh girl are marring these days are average boy, who are their coluges,frm same colg or baniya.

2) Now take my example,i am turbaned sikh, i have been close to many non sikh girl. They all where interested in sikh religion( evry girl is except sikh girl). i took them to all gurudwaras, spend my whole day with them and after coming so close. when ever i finally propose to them, they all give me the same reason. "their parents wont agree to our relationship".

3) Sex ration in sikh religion is less among all religions and regions. 750' girl for 1000 boys. And among those 20% or more(conservative estimate, personally more than 50%) married hindu boy.(2005 stats figure will be poorer now)

4) Now the most shocking thing, I saw my cousin married a hindu boy, she had a brother. Who wanted to cut his hair and was against his sister marrige to a hindu boy. But every one ruled over him saying, its her wish so everyone agreed. But then he said , if she has the freedom to follow her religion y I don't have the freedom not to follow the same religion. and in protest he cut his hair after his sister marriage. His mother stopped talking to him. After three months his mother stopped talking to him, he left the home. That tore their family apart.
Sad part is same thing is about to happen in my family. I see no hope for this religion.

 

[Luckysingh]

I don't think that marriage holds all the hope for religion.
Marriage issues are more social and cultural with religion being used as bait.

 

[kds1980]

4) Now the most shocking thing, I saw my cousin married a hindu boy, she had a brother. Who wanted to cut his hair and was against his sister marrige to a hindu boy. But every one ruled over him saying, its her wish so everyone agreed. But then he said , if she has the freedom to follow her religion y I don't have the freedom not to follow the same religion. and in protest he cut his hair after his sister marriage. His mother stopped talking to him. After three months his mother stopped talking to him, he left the home. That tore their family apart.

Urban Sikhs of India are perhaps only few people in this world who restrict their boys much more than girls.If the boy say he wants to cut his hair then all hell broke on him,parents will not talk ,relative will not talk etc and if the girl say that she wants to marry hindu boy and then follow his custom many families do agree with it

 

[kds1980]

I don't think that marriage holds all the hope for religion.
Marriage issues are more social and cultural with religion being used as bait.

We. still don't have culture of single unwed mothers so almost 99.9% children comes through marriage in this world.Look at Parsi's inter marriages was one of the main reason for the decline of their population

 

[sid]

marriage should and must be based on decision of soul,heart and respect And its aim always should be focused for love,understanding,peace,happiness,prosperity.
and most important before marriage a very good party.

so who is giving party????????

 

[findingmyway]

Strange how this thread is all speculation from males about a woman is thinking!!! I don't think beard and turban has anything to do with it. If Sikh men were less hypocritical (gave up alcohol and stopped demanding women shave their legs to make themselves 'pretty' while expecting to be accepted for their own kesh), or treated women with equality (stopped making demands such as give up your own career), and were more respectful in their treatment of women, then women looking for Sikhs who are also Sikhs in their hearts and actions would not be left disappointed.

 

[dakkuSingh]

@above :
I don't think ur from india or u may not be aware of the issue plaguing the sikh community here in india.
Sikh is not any easy religion to follow. Wearing a turban and keeping beard for 12 hr a day through out ones life is not an easy thing. These hard paced life and cut throat competition who has time for religion or who cares about religion. Religion is inherit from his parent whether he likes it or not.
Given a choice most sikh boy in india, wont like to wear a turban except those who's shops run on religion. Similarly given a choice most of girl will not marry a turban wearing sikh.
Assuming some one know to you cut his hair.Can you assure me that your opinion about him wont change, you will treat him as he was treated before.And also by rest of the society. He wont be called cut surd or monna.
I suggest you to google for the sex ration of girl to boy in india for sikh religion.It shocking the facts. That too a indian gov statistic of 2005 . Now is 2012.

May be thats y one dosent find many untrimmed turban wearing sikh in punjab, if this keeps up soon here wont be any in other states of india.

My main point is that, this has become a catastrophic issue for sikh religion in india. If this is not addressed by the elders or other people. You may lose few believers or followers of sikh religion remaining.

Finally question if sikh religion is so great, how many people from other religion have you seen convert to sikhism in last decade. I can say that at my age of 27 yrs,I have seen only 1 person convert to truban,sikh way of life. and he too was kicked out of his house by his wife and sons and had to live in gurudwara.
Come out of surreal world, u r not living in an egalitarian society.

 

[findingmyway]

Similarly given a choice most of girl will not marry a turban wearing sikh.

Not true. There are many of us who refuse to marry a non-turbanned Sikh. All the women in my family (inside India and out) have proved this fact already.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Sikh is not any easy religion to follow. Wearing a turban and keeping beard for 12 hr a day through out ones life is not an easy thing.

Given a choice most sikh boy in india, wont like to wear a turban except those who's shops run on religion.

From my experience, my parents have to tell me to take off the turban once home. I don't do it before I go to sleep, I can keep on wearing it for 16 hours, only take 'half' of it off before sleep. My turban size has increased from 5 to 12 to my current 18 metres. Nothing is easy to follow if you don't have your heart into it. Most people will find it difficult to write a thank you card if they don't really feel ike thanking!

May be thats y one dosent find many untrimmed turban wearing sikh in punjab, if this keeps up soon here wont be any in other states of india.

No one cares about the religion. It is as simple as that.

Finally question if sikh religion is so great, how many people from other religion have you seen convert to sikhism in last decade.

Who would convert? Those who have a desire for spirituality and find some answers missing! And if you are great religion it doesn't mean you will be 'popular'!

 

[Luckysingh]

@above :
I don't think ur from india or u may not be aware of the issue plaguing the sikh community here in india.
Sikh is not any easy religion to follow. Wearing a turban and keeping beard for 12 hr a day through out ones life is not an easy thing. These hard paced life and cut throat competition who has time for religion or who cares about religion. Religion is inherit from his parent whether he likes it or not.
Given a choice most sikh boy in india, wont like to wear a turban except those who's shops run on religion. Similarly given a choice most of girl will not marry a turban wearing sikh.
Assuming some one know to you cut his hair.Can you assure me that your opinion about him wont change, you will treat him as he was treated before.And also by rest of the society. He wont be called cut surd or monna.
I suggest you to google for the sex ration of girl to boy in india for sikh religion.It shocking the facts. That too a indian gov statistic of 2005 . Now is 2012.

May be thats y one dosent find many untrimmed turban wearing sikh in punjab, if this keeps up soon here wont be any in other states of india.

My main point is that, this has become a catastrophic issue for sikh religion in india. If this is not addressed by the elders or other people. You may lose few believers or followers of sikh religion remaining.

Finally question if sikh religion is so great, how many people from other religion have you seen convert to sikhism in last decade. I can say that at my age of 27 yrs,I have seen only 1 person convert to truban,sikh way of life. and he too was kicked out of his house by his wife and sons and had to live in gurudwara.
Come out of surreal world, u r not living in an egalitarian society.

I am sorry, I do have to disagree with most of your concerns. I may not be in India, but I am very well travelled and probably been to more corners of India and the rest of the world than the natives there.


I feel you are physically or mentally isolated or stuck in a time warp somewhere. The turban is NOT seen as negative or unnattractive to women as you make out, not at all.
In the very modern western world where I am, there are a number of men not just one's with punjabi blood, that have never had a turban and growing or grown their Khes in order to acquire a turban!!!!
I, myself am one of these men, that now feel more spiritual and this way inclined.

You seem to have had some negative psychological experience that is yielding this negative attitude and anger. If this is the case, it will just be a phase that will pass- We All go through similar encounters at times in our lives, they do passover though.

The people and experiences we encounter are NOT always a global representation, even though we may feel convinced at the time. It's all part of growing up and getting wiser with age.- Enjoy the ride!!!

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

 

[kds1980]

I feel you are physically or mentally isolated or stuck in a time warp somewhere. The turban is NOT seen as negative or unnattractive to women as you make out, not at all

Sorry to disagree with it.The above person has just simply the facts from urban India.Urban India is one of the few places where 90% of young sikh men are turbaned and bearded.And it is more of beard than turban that is unattractive to women.you can read any online survey ,most of results clearly say facial hair are unattractive to women.If you have relatives in Delhi or in any city of India then you can easily hear stories of Sikh parents arranging their daughter's wedding with hindu's because their daughter demand clean shaven man.It is now
common here don't even surprise us anymore.

In the very modern western world where I am, there are a number of men not just one's with punjabi blood, that have never had a turban and growing or grown their Khes in order to acquire a turban!!!!
I, myself am one of these men, that now feel more spiritual and this way inclined.

And what their percentage? I can bet young turbaned bearded sikhs are not more than 20-25% in canada.And you have clearly stated the difference.You choose to wear turban of your own choice where in many many sikh families this choice to wear turban or not to wear it is never given to boys this makes them more frustrated.

The people and experiences we encounter are NOT always a global representation, even though we may feel convinced at the time. It's all part of growing up and getting wiser with age.- Enjoy the ride!!!

Yes experiences are not global ,but experiences of sikhs differ from one part to another.

Finally I have a question here why as a community we don't want to extend choice of wearing turban on the young sikh men? let them decide whether they want to wear it or not

 

[dakkuSingh]

@lucky singh

read d below article (2004 TOI)

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...362_1_sikh-community-ratio-specific-abortions

What ever the reason the ground reality is shocking.

One interesting thing : did you observe not a single sikh girl commented in this thread. Defended themselves or saying what I am saying is wrong or untrue.

rest i will reply later to your comment later .