Bhagats Who Was The Guru Of Sahib Kabir?

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Very true and very interesting....some Vaisnavite groups (in order to prove that Sikhism is indeed Hinduism), state that Guru Nanak was a follower of Bhaghat Kabir (not true).

How do we know this, see
www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/kabir.html

In this Kabir ji describes the woman as " a Black Cobra" not to be trusted, wheras our Guru's completely say the opposite:

Unfortunately ones understanding does not and cannot extend beyond ones limitations set at the time of birth. This is a bitter reality. Become Kabir to understand Kabir. I concur with him. What kabir ji is describing is his experience. It shows the mental state of a Sadhu/Saint who has risen above Kaam. One who has conquered Kaam.

Please read on the internet what Vaishnavism is about. Your views are very biased and prejudicial due to your lack of knowledge and understanding. You may consider this as a personal attack. It is not intended to be. Take this as an advice. Plz feel free to ask for assistance and understanding if needed in your quest.

 

[Honey22]

This verse says, that He is His Creation. It does not say that His Creation is as great as He is. Creation cannot be greater than the One who Created it.

aad0002 Ji,
It seems like you simply want to argue about something that you have no idea what you are talking about. Thanks for the above comments, you simplfied everything yourself.

'Guru is God' for the whole humanity.
ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae ||
The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.


ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਲਿ ਏਕੋ ਹੋਏ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
har jan prabh ral eaeko hoeae har jan prabh eaek samaan jeeo ||
The Lord's servants meet with God and merge into Oneness. The Lord's servant and God are one and the same.



ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਰਾਖਿਓ ਗੁਰਿ ਸਰਨਾ ॥
kar kirapaa raakhiou gur saranaa ||
In His Mercy, the Guru has kept me under His protection.
ਗੁਰਿ ਪਕਰਾਏ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਚਰਨਾ ॥
gur pakaraaeae har kae charanaa ||
The Guru has attached me to the Lord's Feet.
ਬੀਸ ਬਿਸੁਏ ਜਾ ਮਨ ਠਹਰਾਨੇ ॥
bees bisueae jaa man theharaanae ||
When the mind is totally held in check,
ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਏਕੈ ਹੀ ਜਾਨੇ ॥੨॥
gur paarabreham eaekai hee jaanae ||2||
one sees the Guru and the Supreme Lord God as one and the same. ||2||



aad ant eke avtaara soi guru samjheo hamaara- Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji

 

[mesweetcute]

ya honey yr saying ryt......but listen there is nessary to be a guru wid physical body.........who will tell us the way ........wid the helpl of dat we will go to our desitation................u said kabir`s ji guru is god...see god is omnipresent as kabir sahib says "moke kahan donde bande main to tere pass" par present guru will tell the way to reach our destination.............but my question is for sahib kabir`s real guru...............as for ramamnand ji he was the followr of vaishnav-mat...later he also followed the teachiongs of sahib kabir......so the main question is that who was the guru of true aint sahib kabir???

 

[Honey22]

ya honey yr saying ryt......but listen there is nessary to be a guru wid physical body.........who will tell us the way ........wid the helpl of dat we will go to our desitation................u said kabir`s ji guru is god...see god is omnipresent as kabir sahib says "moke kahan donde bande main to tere pass" par present guru will tell the way to reach our destination.............but my question is for sahib kabir`s real guru...............as for ramamnand ji he was the followr of vaishnav-mat...later he also followed the teachiongs of sahib kabir......so the main question is that who was the guru of true aint sahib kabir???

It is very simple mesweetcute Ji, The same Guru which happened to be the Guru of Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji-:happyermeating everywhere:happy:.

"moko kahan donde bande main to tere pass".

 

[mesweetcute]

well........honey thankz for reply.....

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Ramananda was a disciple of Raghavananda, an ascetic of the Sri Vaishnava order, expounded by Ramanuja and was known for his downplaying the role of caste.


He had disciples from all castes. His most famous disciples were Anantananda, Bhavananda, Dhanna Bhagat, Kabir, Nabha, Naraharyananda, Pipa, Ravidas, Sain, Sukhananda, and Tulsidas.



Source : Internet


mesweetcute:
Now as a spiritualist how does that assist you. Some just ask questions for that sake of it. Plz enlighten us with your experience.

Honey22:

There is more to Sikhism than the niche well you have created for your self. Join the ocean to understand the Leela else you will remain making small leaps and rounds within your well.



SGGS is a guide for one to realise and discover God within oneself. Know thyself and you will know God.

 

[Honey22]

Honey22:

There is more to Sikhism than the niche well you have created for your self. Join the ocean to understand the Leela else you will remain making small leaps and rounds within your well.

SGGS is a guide for one to realise and discover God within oneself. Know thyself and you will know God.

Ekmusafir_ajnabi Ji, very much thanks for your concerns, sir/madam. Good Luck.



ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ॥
anmrith baanee har har thaeree ||
The Word of Your Bani, Lord, is Ambrosial Nectar.
ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ॥
sun sun hovai param gath maeree ||
Hearing it again and again, I am elevated to the supreme heights.
ਜਲਨਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਮਨੂਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
jalan bujhee seethal hoe manooaa sathigur kaa dharasan paaeae jeeo ||1||
The burning within me has been extinguished, and my mind has been cooled and soothed, by the Blessed Vision of the True Guru. ||1||

 

[Honey22]

Gursikhi:


ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਸਭੁ ਖੇਤੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਕਿਰਸਾਣੀ ਲਾਇਆ ॥
har prabh kaa sabh khaeth hai har aap kirasaanee laaeiaa ||
Everyone is the field of the Lord God; the Lord Himself cultivates this field.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬਖਸਿ ਜਮਾਈਅਨੁ ਮਨਮੁਖੀ ਮੂਲੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥
guramukh bakhas jamaaeean manamukhee mool gavaaeiaa ||
The Gurmukh grows the crop of forgiveness, while the self-willed manmukh loses even his roots.
ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬੀਜੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਭਲੇ ਨੋ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਖੇਤੁ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥
sabh ko beejae aapanae bhalae no har bhaavai so khaeth jamaaeiaa ||
They all plant for their own good, but the Lord causes to grow only that field with which He is pleased.
ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬੀਜਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਫਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
gurasikhee har anmrith beejiaa har anmrith naam fal anmrith paaeiaa ||
The GurSikh plants the seed of the Lord's Ambrosial Nectar, and obtains the Lord's Ambrosial Naam as his Ambrosial Fruit.
ਜਮੁ ਚੂਹਾ ਕਿਰਸ ਨਿਤ ਕੁਰਕਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਕਢਾਇਆ ॥
jam choohaa kiras nith kurakadhaa har karathai maar kadtaaeiaa ||
The mouse of Death is continually gnawing away at the crop, but the Creator Lord has beaten it off and driven it away.
ਕਿਰਸਾਣੀ ਜੰਮੀ ਭਾਉ ਕਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬੋਹਲ ਬਖਸ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥
kirasaanee janmee bhaao kar har bohal bakhas jamaaeiaa ||
The farm was successful, by the Love of the Lord, and the crop was produced by God's Grace.
ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਕਾੜਾ ਅੰਦੇਸਾ ਸਭੁ ਲਾਹਿਓਨੁ ਜਿਨੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥
thin kaa kaarraa andhaesaa sabh laahioun jinee sathigur purakh dhhiaaeiaa ||
He has removed all the burning and anxiety of those, who have meditated on the True Guru, the Primal Being.
ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਰਾਧਿਆ ਆਪਿ ਤਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਤਰਾਇਆ ॥੧॥
jan naanak naam araadhhiaa aap thariaa sabh jagath tharaaeiaa ||1||
O servant Nanak, one who worships and adores the Naam, the Name of the Lord, swims across, and saves the whole world as well. ||1||


Dhan Guru Ram Das Ji.


ਦਾਤੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸੰਦੀਆ ਕਿਆ ਚਲੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
dhaathee saahib sandheeaa kiaa chalai this naal ||
The gifts are from our Lord and Master; who can force Him to bestow them?
ਇਕਿ ਜਾਗੰਦੇ ਨਾ ਲਹਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਸੁਤਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਉਠਾਲਿ ॥੧੧੩॥
eik jaagandhae naa lehanih eikanhaa suthiaa dhaee outhaal ||113||
Some are awake, and do not receive them, while He awakens others from sleep to bless them. ||113||


Dhan Sheikh Farid Ji

 

[Archived_Member_19]

Who was "Kabir" ?

Whom are we discussing about?

 

[Sikh80]

It is also known that He chanted 'Ram'/Rama' as His Mantra.

[ Subject to correction by anyone.]

 

[Randip Singh]

Unfortunately ones understanding does not and cannot extend beyond ones limitations set at the time of birth. This is a bitter reality. Become Kabir to understand Kabir. I concur with him. What kabir ji is describing is his experience. It shows the mental state of a Sadhu/Saint who has risen above Kaam. One who has conquered Kaam.

So I have to becoema Guru to undertstyand Bani too?

Are you not limited by your own Karma?

What makes you so special?

You are justifying treating woman as a second class citizen. What nonsense!

Please read on the internet what Vaishnavism is about. Your views are very biased and prejudicial due to your lack of knowledge and understanding. You may consider this as a personal attack. It is not intended to be. Take this as an advice. Plz feel free to ask for assistance and understanding if needed in your quest.

Actually it is YOU who are prejudicial and have been pushining Vasnavite teachings as Sikhism time and time again. It is just as well we are here to rebutt you, or people may belive your Vashnavite leanings as Sikhism! Now please do not take that as a personal attack and feel free to ask for assistance! :wink:

 

[Randip Singh]

Back to topic.

Bottom line I think is we roughly know who Kabir's teacher was.

We know Kabir was himself the son of a Muslim weaver (but if you belive Brahmanical teaching he was actually a Brahmin abandoned and brought up by Muslims).

He practiced Islam, but in Benares he came in contact with Vaisnavite Pandits, and espoused much Vashnavite teachings.

Guru Nanak incorporated SOME not all of his teachings into Bani. He did this with many other Saints too. For example Bhagat Farid a Sufi Saint and devout Muslim, only some of his teaching is put in Bani.

In short, within Sikhi we take what is Good from all faiths and agree. We may not agree with all the teachings of that faith but we concerntrate on COMMONALITY rather thatn that with is different.

The confusion comes when some people espouse all the virtues of a particular Saint/Religion as that as being of Sikhism. An example is many Muslims say Sikhism is a distorted Islam because Guru Nanak went on Haj, and there are teachings of Muslims like Bhaghat Kabir and Farid. There are also Hindu's (especially Vashnavites) who say Sikhism is in effect Vashnavite (or Hindu mat) because there are teachings of Bhagat Kabir there.

The reality is Sikhism is ALL and yet none. It is Sikhism.:happy:

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Randip Singh ji

I will respond to you soon. But in the meanwhile cool your self and enjoy:ice:
When you run out i will give you another. Read a little more for clarity. You are making progress.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

 

[spnadmin]

It is also known that He chanted 'Ram'/Rama' as His Mantra.

[ Subject to correction by anyone.]

Bhagat Kabeer's biography is shrouded in mystery and a fair amount of legend has grown up around his life. One element of his story is that he was illiterate and could not read or write. All his hymns then being preserved by the oral tradition. Until they were written down, as may have been good grade of the Sikh Gurus to do.

It is however said that he could write one word, and that word was RAM. Again there is not way to investigate the facts.

My goal in writing this is really to get the discussion back to the thread topic and away from personalities as per forum rule 3A - Please observe this rule. My note.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

no one has answered my question

who was Kabir that we read about?

 

[spnadmin]

amarsanghera ji

I tried to answer your question. There is almost no certain information about Kabeer, but surely he lived and he did write devotional hymns. Some of these hymns are included in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj where he is Sant Kabeer, Bhagat Kabeer (or Kabir).

 

[Archived_Member_19]

But what is difference between the man and Kabir?

 

[Randip Singh]

Randip Singh ji

I will respond to you soon. But in the meanwhile cool your self and enjoy:ice:
When you run out i will give you another. Read a little more for clarity. You are making progress.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

I am cool thank you.

I am indeed making progress, but not in the direction you would wish me too I think

 

[Randip Singh]

But what is difference between the man and Kabir?

Please elaborate?

 

[Archived_Member_19]

yes
i think the my question is pretty straight

Who is Kabir ?

Who is the person who was called Kabir?

What is difference between the person called Kabir and Kabir?