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Why Are We Not Allowed To Cut Hair When It's Ok To Cut Nails, Since Both Are Created By God?

Apr 11, 2007
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Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

Gurfateh

My elders have informed me that our Gurus have laid their life for the sake of humanity. Our tenth Guru Gobind Singh JI has founded the Khalsa panth . While fighting with moughals to save the people of punjab our guruji wandered from place to place helping the needy from the tortures of moughals .They used to ride horses so fast to reach the places for immediate help with their fellow men many used to get hurt while learning the skills of warrior . They used to wander from place to place had no time for hair cut. They cleaned and maintained their hair and protected the soft part of the skull by making jura(rolling hair) and tied a cloth i.e. turban which protected the head/skull as an helmet. The nihaangs used to put a khanda around their turbans. Which protected them from head injury. A group was organised to save people like this. They were identified with their roop(dressing of turban). Then many women have also joined the group. As they never stayed at one place and had to rush immediatedly they use to wear long knickers called kacchera which was very easy for them to climb or mount the horse at the time of immediate action. Women in the group also had to bathe it was advised to wear long kaccheras and keep kirpaans with them and wear karas for their protection. since then to maintain cleanlinesss of the hair a kanga is kept along with hair . all the five Ks kanga kesh kachhera kada and kirpan had become the identity of this warrior kaum. When khalsa panth's sajna diwas was held on baisakhi in the year 1699 since then they have become our identity.


as then they had no time cook food and wait for long time . The quick energy giving Kada parshad was cooked and distributed among all the warrior group after the ardaas wand ke chhako. so it was cut by the kirpaan for dividing and distributing


are u convinced now

No, I am not convinced with that explaination, because your saying they never had time to get a hair cut, but they had time to forge Kara's from steel for each individual, they had time to forge kirpans, they had time to do simran, they had time for a bath, they had time to have family lives, they had time to cut nails, yet they never had time for a hair cut, non-sense!
lollol lol lol lol
 
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Luckysingh

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Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

Gurfateh

My elders have informed me that our Gurus have laid their life for the sake of humanity. Our tenth Guru Gobind Singh JI has founded the Khalsa panth . While fighting with moughals to save the people of punjab our guruji wandered from place to place helping the needy from the tortures of moughals .They used to ride horses so fast to reach the places for immediate help with their fellow men many used to get hurt while learning the skills of warrior . They used to wander from place to place had no time for hair cut. They cleaned and maintained their hair and protected the soft part of the skull by making jura(rolling hair) and tied a cloth i.e. turban which protected the head/skull as an helmet. The nihaangs used to put a khanda around their turbans. Which protected them from head injury. A group was organised to save people like this. They were identified with their roop(dressing of turban). Then many women have also joined the group. As they never stayed at one place and had to rush immediatedly they use to wear long knickers called kacchera which was very easy for them to climb or mount the horse at the time of immediate action. Women in the group also had to bathe it was advised to wear long kaccheras and keep kirpaans with them and wear karas for their protection. since then to maintain cleanlinesss of the hair a kanga is kept along with hair . all the five Ks kanga kesh kachhera kada and kirpan had become the identity of this warrior kaum. When khalsa panth's sajna diwas was held on baisakhi in the year 1699 since then they have become our identity.


as then they had no time cook food and wait for long time . The quick energy giving Kada parshad was cooked and distributed among all the warrior group after the ardaas wand ke chhako. so it was cut by the kirpaan for dividing and distributing
are u convinced now

Parmaji I agree, this is non-sense. Even my very young kids wouldn't buy this explanation.
They had no time for haircut is why sikhs maintain long hair and all they ate was karaah. This is a joke, I can't believe that Gurjeet is actually being serious. I won't comment any further, but to any young youths or newbies, they need to be aware that these comments and this theory is ridiculous and shouldn't even be considered for one moment.
Sikhism was NOT designed as a 'convenience' religion-- Far from it.
I'm going to go and wash my hair, I think I still have time, yet if I had short hair it would take me less time.!!!!

Waheguru
Lucky Singh
 
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panj

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Mar 20, 2012
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@ skeptic.freethinker1,

trees shed leaves, (law of the nature) for leaves to grow next season and so forth (follow a path/process).

The part of the nails which doesn't feel nothing is treated as desired by the human action. The part of the nail which does feel something, can hurt, if treated for the same desired result. (even though the action is to cut). Hair (all over the body), is treated as desired by the human action.

The resulting action may hurt (in different ways) or may not. The human action, applied (where, when, why....etc) determines the result (physical/psychological etc). Personal hygiene in a constructive manner is important.

hope it helps fellow SPN'er!
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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One person's remedy can be a poison for some other mode.

Search the Homeopathic Remedy "Lachesis" and see how it works. A wonderful remedy for the right symptoms and person.

Sat Sri Akal.

Satnaam Ambarsaria ji,

In gurbani (and i'm hoping it is gurbani we are trying to live and breath?)
it is clear as night and day as to the utmost importance of simran. we cannot and we should NEVER remove it's importance on every human being on this planet regardless of their life situation.

prabh kaa simaran sabh thae oochaa ||
The remembrance of God is the highest and most exalted of all.

how can we remember something we have not experienced or found? If you've never eaten an apple, how can you sit in rememberance of the taste of an apple? But what if you've already tasted the apple but have forgotton over countless lifetimes? is the process of simran to clear our minds so that we can re-establish our true selves...our true identity...satnaam...that we have experienced before but only forgotton throught he grasp of our diluded minds.

prabh kai simaran oudhharae moochaa ||
In the remembrance of God, many are saved.

prabh kai simaran sabh kishh sujhai ||
In the remembrance of God, all things are known

prabh kai simaran man kee mal jaae ||
In the remembrance of God, the filth of the mind is removed

Again, reference to simran providing the tool to remove the filth of our minds, which we all are infected with.

a(n)mrith naam ridh maahi samaae ||
The Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, is absorbed into the heart.

After effects of daily Simran with full love and devotion to the supreme lord?


naanak simaran poorai bhaag ||6||
O Nanak, this meditative remembrance comes only by perfect destiny. ||6||

May we all be blessed with the thirst, the grace, the motivation from within to start daily Simran and bit by bit remove the stanglehold of the mind and start to experience our real true selves...our true identity which can only be divine in nature...
 
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Ambarsaria

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Dec 21, 2010
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@ skeptic.freethinker1,

trees shed leaves, (law of the nature) for leaves to grow next season and so forth (follow a path/process).

The part of the nails which doesn't feel nothing is treated as desired by the human action. The part of the nail which does feel something, can hurt, if treated for the same desired result. (even though the action is to cut). Hair (all over the body), is treated as desired by the human action.

The resulting action may hurt (in different ways) or may not. The human action, applied (where, when, why....etc) determines the result (physical/psychological etc). Personal hygiene in a constructive manner is important.

hope it helps fellow SPN'er!
Folks add to all this the natural laws. Apparently every hair on the body gets replenished over six months. So we lose and grow hair continuously and nature by self defines how long and where. winkingmunda. So nature does not have special preference or love for hair as much as somehow we want to make it or the way we try to make it.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Luckysingh

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Dec 3, 2011
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Folks add to all this the natural laws. Apparently every hair on the body gets replenished over six months. So we lose and grow hair continuously and nature by self defines how long and where. winkingmunda. So nature does not have special preference or love for hair as much as somehow we want to make it or the way we try to make it.

Sat Sri Akal.

Nice one, this is an actual fact. Infact we do more damage to our hair with shampoos and conditioners. If we just cleansed with water, sure the hair get's extremely greasy at first and for a few months, but after some months it starts replenishing itself and the greasiness and limpness resides and it becomes more full bodied and healthier. This is a fact that many have witnessed.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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Confusedji

firstly you still owe me a reply for my last post addressing yours :)

I do aspire to be like the Gurus, I aspire for the clarity of vision, for the calmness, for the ability to see the truth. I do know who I am, and sometimes it is not a pretty sight, what else is Hukam, other than aspiring to be like Creator with Creators values? I do this in the hope that the part of me I dislike so much can be shed.

It is important that I do not believe in miracles, believing in such opens a a whole new universe where the laws of nature can be bent at will by Creator, I do not believe this, I believe that Creator allows us to make our own decisions, and judgement is given by Creation. If I believed in miracles, I could well spend all my time appeasing God in the hope something good will happen, instead of living by Bani in the hope that this will provide a better outcome from Creation.

As far as the Nihangs go, if you are going into battle, you better do it with every mental and physical weapon open to you, when the time comes to fight, one must fight, with anger and hate, your survival depends on it. however, I can see your point of view, it is something I will think about tonight.

I cannot answer your question on direction, again I will give this some thought

If you could explain how answering anger with kindness on a battlefield works, I would be grateful, as I cannot, with respect see how this works.

I would like to think of wisdom as the eternal universal truth, the proper way to act in any situation, I would be the first to admit that my wisdom is flawed, I am learning like all of us here

I have a big problem with Karma, unless we are talking in the single life, with effects and consequences in this life. I would also say that not all good deeds have good effects, giving to beggars could be seen as a good deed with potentially bad effect, same as spoiling a child, or lending another money, it can result in dependence, I guess wisdom tells us what is a good deed and what is not, but I do not think good deeds are hugely obvious taken at face value, tough love can be a good deed, although not immediately apparent.

I have shifted my view hugely, what I believe is for me and for me alone, I have huge respect for other beliefs and interpretation. I apologise if I have come across as arrogant.

In my heart I feel I know the truth, however, I never said that I practice it, my posts are clearly written by someone that may well know some truths, but it is implementing what I know, and I seem to be struggling with that, having said that, when I was a child, on a regular basis, I would throw everything in the air and start again, I feel like I am doing this now with my approach to Sikhism, I rather feel like I am in a game of snakes and ladders, and I have just slid down a huge snake.

I think your post is more spot on than I would care to admit to myself, I will comment again tomorrow,

and you still owe me a reply :):)
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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Confusedji

firstly you still owe me a reply for my last post addressing yours :)

I do aspire to be like the Gurus, I aspire for the clarity of vision, for the calmness, for the ability to see the truth. I do know who I am, and sometimes it is not a pretty sight, what else is Hukam, other than aspiring to be like Creator with Creators values? I do this in the hope that the part of me I dislike so much can be shed.
Satnaam Harry ji, We should always aspire to be better...so what you're saying is spot on...too often people judge and blame others where the first point of reference to any situation should be how we responded, or how we spoke ourselves...Words are more powerful than anything...they have the power to diffuse a bad situation...or make the situation worse.
If we change a single bad thing about ourselves into something positive..our life changes instantly...if we change two or three things..:) and then if the people around us do the same...the ripple effect just continues.
But in gurbani, the biggest focus i've found is to understand ourselves. Who we really are. Even science to this date cannot answer this question.

What we'll find as we look towards ourselves and go on the journey of understanding how our minds work, and start to calm and control our 5 thieves is that our TRUE nature (love, compassion, no fear, no hate, caring for one another, the comunity etc etc) just automatically comes out...theres no aspiring to anything...theres no gaining anything...because that is our True Identity 'Satnaam' ... it is only our minds which created the negatives.

It is important that I do not believe in miracles, believing in such opens a a whole new universe where the laws of nature can be bent at will by Creator, I do not believe this, I believe that Creator allows us to make our own decisions, and judgement is given by Creation. If I believed in miracles, I could well spend all my time appeasing God in the hope something good will happen, instead of living by Bani in the hope that this will provide a better outcome from Creation.
If god exists in all, then god can show you love through another being, can show you kindness through another person, if you're in need of some information, some guidance...god can give you this guidance through another person...'but you need to be receptive of this' and this only happens once the mind is cleared of the thousands of useless thoughts that pass through it daily. This is just my belief and may not be the sangats belief...but we have to make that daily effort to calm our anger, our green, our attachments, and our ego...which is the biggest blockage to all things godly.

As far as the Nihangs go, if you are going into battle, you better do it with every mental and physical weapon open to you, when the time comes to fight, one must fight, with anger and hate, your survival depends on it. however, I can see your point of view, it is something I will think about tonight.
Almost all martial arts indicate that anger and hate are weaknesses on the battlefield. They reduce clarity, they reduce focus :) the Shaulin monks, kung fu, even my cousin learns Shin kin (sikhi martial arts) and Gatka, and they teach that anger is a curse on the battlefield....if your enemy fights with Anger and hate...then you already have the advantage :)

I cannot answer your question on direction, again I will give this some thought

If you could explain how answering anger with kindness on a battlefield works, I would be grateful, as I cannot, with respect see how this works.
Our guru's were the protectors of humanity. they were focused on protection. Many of the warriors may have experienced anger and hate before or after a battle...but in my opinion..they would all have been doing regular Simran with the Guru Ji's, and would have been able to subdue any negative emotions to remain focussed, clear headed whilst doing battle.
A strength of a man is reduced when anger and hate is involved...the strength is maximised when the person is focused. and focused on their goal...to protect and serve humanity.

I would like to think of wisdom as the eternal universal truth, the proper way to act in any situation, I would be the first to admit that my wisdom is flawed, I am learning like all of us here
Yup, we are all learning as we go along :)

I have a big problem with Karma, unless we are talking in the single life, with effects and consequences in this life. I would also say that not all good deeds have good effects, giving to beggars could be seen as a good deed with potentially bad effect, same as spoiling a child, or lending another money, it can result in dependence, I guess wisdom tells us what is a good deed and what is not, but I do not think good deeds are hugely obvious taken at face value, tough love can be a good deed, although not immediately apparent.
A lot of our actions are based on our habits, out feelings, experiences from the past. When we come across a situation in our lives...Our 'Mind' looks into our sunconscious...looks back at all its experiences...and generates thoughts in our head that we act upon. This computer 'mind' of ours calculates our actions based on the information and experiences it has had. If the 'Data' in our minds is very negative...our end results...thoughts, actions tend to be negative. My tool for clearing the negativity in my mind is Simran...for youself it may be something else.
Once our subconsious is cleared, our Soul does the thinking...it doesnt need past experiences...you overcome Karma, and become Truely Free and not influenced by the negative mind.
Once that happens...all deeds are good...even if the rest of the world thinks its bad...becuase all your deeds will be backed by un-condition love...i.e God.

I have shifted my view hugely, what I believe is for me and for me alone, I have huge respect for other beliefs and interpretation. I apologise if I have come across as arrogant.

In my heart I feel I know the truth, however, I never said that I practice it, my posts are clearly written by someone that may well know some truths, but it is implementing what I know, and I seem to be struggling with that, having said that, when I was a child, on a regular basis, I would throw everything in the air and start again, I feel like I am doing this now with my approach to Sikhism, I rather feel like I am in a game of snakes and ladders, and I have just slid down a huge snake.
I've slid down many ladders...many times..made huge mistakes and let mysef down...but when we have the sangat to talk to...share our experiences..and learn from each other, we can overcome anything...i'm sure of it :)

I think your post is more spot on than I would care to admit to myself, I will comment again tomorrow,

and you still owe me a reply :):)
God Bless all.
 
Nov 14, 2004
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Harry ji,


firstly you still owe me a reply for my last post addressing yours

I don't recall. Can you please direct me to the particular post?

I do aspire to be like the Gurus, I aspire for the clarity of vision, for the calmness, for the ability to see the truth.

You see, when being reminded about particular good qualities, you appreciate the value and know that they should be developed. But to think in terms of another person having those qualities and wanting to be like him, this is an instance of conceit and desire and these are *not* worthy of encouragement.

I do know who I am, and sometimes it is not a pretty sight, what else is Hukam, other than aspiring to be like Creator with Creators values? I do this in the hope that the part of me I dislike so much can be shed.

This to me sounds like the ultimate conceit. First you attribute all that “you” think is good onto one entity, give it power of control over all there is, and then say that you want to emulate that entity.

When wisdom arises to know the presence of some unwholesome state, there is detachment by virtue of the understanding. Conceit is unwholesome, but to be put off by it because “you” have conceit is just more conceit. Likewise to be averse to anger is just more anger, and to hope to be without desire is actually more desire. In other words you fall into the trap of those same mental qualities which at some point you have understood as being harmful. This shows lack of wisdom and the detachment which necessarily comes with it.

It is important that I do not believe in miracles, believing in such opens a a whole new universe where the laws of nature can be bent at will by Creator, I do not believe this, I believe that Creator allows us to make our own decisions, and judgement is given by Creation. If I believed in miracles, I could well spend all my time appeasing God in the hope something good will happen, instead of living by Bani in the hope that this will provide a better outcome from Creation.

I don't believe in miracles either, but I take it that you also reject such things as supernormal powers, in which I'll have to point out that believing in this is not mutually exclusive to understanding the causes and conditions which lead to increased morality and other kinds of good. Good accumulates by virtue of it having arisen and grows as a result of understanding the value. Trying to please God and anybody with aim of getting something for oneself is desire, and desire is of course an unwholesome mental reality which in fact is cause for unpleasant results in the future.

As far as the Nihangs go, if you are going into battle, you better do it with every mental and physical weapon open to you, when the time comes to fight, one must fight, with anger and hate, your survival depends on it. however, I can see your point of view, it is something I will think about tonight.

I cannot answer your question on direction, again I will give this some thought

And while you are thinking about it you might like to consider that the issue is not about how a battle is fought, but to battle at all. And if one is obliged to go into battle because one happens to have joined the army thinking at the time, that there would never be a need to go to battle, one may instead use force to capture the enemies rather than kill them……

If you could explain how answering anger with kindness on a battlefield works, I would be grateful, as I cannot, with respect see how this works.

Above is one example. Another as you would know is working as a medic. Indeed if you perchance became enlightened during a battle, you'd be completely incapable of killing even an insect, not to speak of human beings. Therefore you may end up being killed if you can't escape the situation, but this won’t however be a cause for even the slightest regret.

But before you come to this point you'd have to consider, if joining the army means that you must fight, why join the army then?

I would like to think of wisdom as the eternal universal truth, the proper way to act in any situation, I would be the first to admit that my wisdom is flawed, I am learning like all of us here

What you suggested before is what most people who don’t follow any religion are inclined to believe. But Sikhism as far as I know, teaches about the wrongness of krodh and the value of ‘love’ does it not? Would it not then be that in all situations the former is to be discouraged and the latter encouraged? The problem is when there is ignorance and one just reacts as before, either with attachment or with aversion. But this is easy isn’t it, and easy too that this is followed by wrong understanding which seeks to justify the attachment and aversion such as in suggesting that there is a time for kindness and a time to express anger? What is difficult is for wisdom to arise to condition the appropriate action because this goes against the stream which we otherwise simply are swept along.

I have a big problem with Karma, unless we are talking in the single life, with effects and consequences in this life.

Well that is the problem, you are inclined to define reality in terms of what you perceive and have no mind to question the nature of the perception itself. If what you perceive is conditioned by ignorance and wrong understanding, then your objection towards karma reflects the wrong understanding.

If you think about moral cause and effect as being for example, you steal and are caught and put into jail, then you are actually overlooking certain things which actually reflect the workings of karma. Karma is a mental reality which behaves according to its own law, therefore if you insist on the kind of cause and effect involving “you” from the moment of your birth till the time that you die, then you are insisting on going by the kind of observation which is dependent on agreed upon convention and not on truth /reality.

Karma as cause is actually the intention accompanying mental states such as craving, aversion, jealousy and so on on one side and kindness, giving, morality and understanding on the other. These are not “you” doing this or doing that in a given situation. The results of karma are the experience through the five senses, but also birth, life (life continuum) and death are results of karma. Should these be thought about as being “you” facing this or that situation? Absolutely not.

If we are caught up in stories about “me” and the situations of my life instead of thinking in terms of precise mental and physical phenomena, then it is to be expected that you either will believe in karma or you will not. But just as the former does not reflect real understanding about the way things are, neither is the latter making any statement about truth and reality. What actually takes place is rejection of karma due to making a different kind of observation and having different set of beliefs about cause and effect.

For someone who has arrived at the conclusion that the right course of action is dependent on the situation such that sometimes kindness is called for but at another time anger, this is clear evidence that indeed the mode of observation is wrong and possibility of understanding karma very remote.

I would also say that not all good deeds have good effects, giving to beggars could be seen as a good deed with potentially bad effect, same as spoiling a child, or lending another money, it can result in dependence, I guess wisdom tells us what is a good deed and what is not, but I do not think good deeds are hugely obvious taken at face value, tough love can be a good deed, although not immediately apparent.

You are involved in a kind of observation which does not distinguish correctly, between moral cause and effect. Giving is karma, a cause, and the result of this is not something that the beggar or child does with your gift. What he does is his karma or cause for results that will only come to him later in the form of good or bad experiences through the senses or as rebirth, which of course is unpredictable. And although some instances of giving are preceded by ignorance and desire and others by wisdom which then makes a difference to the quality of the giving, the giving itself is however always good. Lending money is of course not giving, it is business and conditioned by desire.

When you suggested, “I do not think good deeds are hugely obvious taken at face value, tough love can be a good deed, although not immediately apparent”, what you appear to have in mind is not the particular mind state arisen with the intention to act, but the short or long term response of the other person. But this is not the way one thinks about moral cause and effect and what is good and bad.

Good is good and encouraged by virtue of the fact that particular mental phenomena is seen by wisdom to have some positive quality while at the same time seeing harm in the opposite. This means that you do good for its own sake and not discriminate for example, between who we should be kind to and who not. In the case of giving indiscriminately resulting in the recipient's misuse of the gift, if prior knowledge about the possibility was present, this simply reflects lack of discriminative power, but it does not make the giving somehow wrong.

I am leaving out the rest of your post and hope to be able to say more when responding to any subsequent response from you. And also I owe a reply to you, so please don’t forget to direct me to that one.
 

chazSingh

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Satnaam Confused Ji,

You make some very valid points.

Life is a constant evaluation of oneself...I spent most of my life blaming things on others...looking for outwardly reasons for everything...sometimes blaming god.
God has put me in some testing situations...and i honestly believe if it wasnt for my now love and dedication for Simran that I would have reacted in many situations with Anger, Hate, Ego etc etc...

I spent 3 years of my life 'looking for a wife' my parents were actively looking...i was meeting girls with a view to getting married. I thought of myself as religious...went to the gurdwara...etc etc my view was that i was a really nice guy that didnt do much wrong....and i was seeking similar attributes in a wife to myself.

When i eventually got married, my now wifes character started to come out...she wasnt interested in God, infact she stated she 'hates' the thought of god. She once screamed out "what will you find in that big book of ours". She's now stated she wants to cut the hair of any future kids because she "cannot be bothered with the hassle", she doesnt want to go to the temple...or do any Seva... she's very self centered. I started to wonder what i have done to get into such a relationship. I've been threatened by her family because she complained to them that we don't have enough money (when we do).

you see marriage is there so that you can come face to face with your own negatives. Theres no escaping it...marriage is like a mirror.
In anger my wife has shouted "you think you're religious, but you've not done this...and you dont do that...and sometimes you can come across like this and that"
I could have reacted in anger...got involved in many arguments but i started to self evaluate...rather than look at my wifes negatives...i realised i wasnt putting the effort in to do Simran, wasnt doing much Seva at all, wasnt sharing my earning with people that are in need.... i was static...she pointed out so many of my negatives..

So i started a regular daily Simran/meditaton...i'm always looking for ways to do Seva now, and to start giving more... meeting my wife has been a blessing...she is a blessing..

But, we are completely different characters at the moment. I almost have a seperate life to her (in terms of my spirituality)...what do I do?

Do i run, have a divorce? nope...i put my faith in guru Ji that whatever situation he puts me into i will accept...and in the meantime i will continue my Simran, Seva (which is also to serve my wife) and to share with others. good can come out of any situation that may appear bad.

In one situation, my wife had a 2 hour bout of Extreme Anger...she was throwing things, breaking things, shouting the most disgusting abuse...and all i did was sit there...in complete calm, observing....she threatened to leave me for the 5th time...so i picked up a small suitcase and gently started putting her clothes into it.

She stopped...and there was a deafening silence...she asked what i was doing...
I said..."you seem really unhappy and keep threatening to leave...i;ll help you pack your bags...this is not a prison, you're free to leave anytime..."

Since that day her anger has subsided...her threats of leaving have dissapeared.

for me this is all the power of simran....to reduce attachment...the fear of losing something, to subdue anger, jelousey, desire :)


God bless all.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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Confusedji

I will confess to being devoid of my normal calmness at present, there are events going on in which although I show no outward signs of anger, inwardly, yes I am angry, agitated. Reading my posts recently is like reading those of a stranger.

My wife is very Buddhist in her thinking, and when I start reading similar concepts from your posts and find myself arguing with her, I have to assume I have taken a wrong turning somewhere.

I accept your argument about aspiring, one has to be oneself, and find ones own centre, as a Sikh, this means stripping away the anger, the hate, the agitation through understanding rather than modelling.

I also have to accept that emulate may be the wrong word. A quick look at the dictionary confirms this possibly to be the worst word I could have chosen

em·u·late (my-lt)
tr.v. em·u·lat·ed, em·u·lat·ing, em·u·lates
1. To strive to equal or excel, especially through imitation: an older pupil whose accomplishments and style I emulated.
2. To compete with successfully; approach or attain equality with.

I see Creator as a big brother who I would like to be more like, but through my own understanding not imitation. I have to accept that to want to be like someone else, even if it is Creator, is a dangerous path, one can only hope to be ones true self.

I agree with your paragraph on miracles, I do not live to appease God in the hope of good things happening, I see God as quite detached from the world. I do not pray, or hope to catch a smile or a cheery nod, nor do I live in fear of a frown or a grimace, judgement comes through Creation.

The Nihang/battle issue is murky, I think we may be at odds here, but I will concede that battles can be fought without hate and anger. I also accept that a valid contribution to a battle is to be a medic, the murkiness stems from my lack of belief in reincarnation.

Direction-normally I am at peace with myself and my surroundings, at present I feel like I am in a war zone.

Your comments on Karma work well coupled with a belief in reincarnation, as I lack the belief in reincarnation, I cannot comment.

I do not agree with the 'giving is always good'. When I give, I give my all, and am always let down. My wife has made the comment that firstly, I should never even expect a thank you, and secondly, I should never give so much that I am left with nothing, so I guess my idea of giving is flawed.

I sense a philosophy of giving and loving and leaving the rest to Karma, is this correct?
However if one does not believe in Karma as you have defined, then the responsibility surely rests with the giver.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated, I was sitting at home taking it in turns to annoy the animals when my wife insisted I go to the shop and post, it makes you peaceful, she says....
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,194
55
Chazji,

I wish I had your calmness, I never get angry per se, but reading the above makes me realise how peaceful my married life is. My wife also does not believe in God, but has made every effort to debate with me and share with me my journey. I do not know how I could possibly handle what you describe, you must be some sort of hugely enlightened fellow.

If it were me in your situation, I would be practically broken, and although it makes me realise how dependent I am on my wifes good nature, and I suppose how sometimes I take advantage of it. As people we always want more, when I read your post, and realise how irritated I get because of the amount of time and money we spend on our animals, or because my wife has decided that another one of her patients needs heating paid, or shopping bought, I feel quite ashamed.

I have realised that no matter how good things are, perfection is always one step too far away, your post has made me realise just how discontented I manage to convince myself I am sometimes, and just how wrong I am to feel like this.

Thanks for sharing something so personal
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 3, 2011
1,634
2,758
Vancouver
Chazji,
Firstly, I would like to say well done for staying calm. It's amazing how one's calmness can help diffuse many situations. I can't comment on a personal level as such, but you should carry on and conduct your self in this manner with the help from the lord.
I personally have been amazed in the calmness attained with the help of the almighty. Wether it's my meditation and simran, or my increased activity in sikhism or just a combination of all. I do find that in situatutions I face in everyday life, I seem to have a completely different attitude. I was always the 1st to complain and start tearing my own hair as well as others, but I'm completely the opposite. If someone does something or says something upsetting, I just can't help feeling sorry for their view that's causing them to be upset.-sounds a little crazy at times, but this immense love is what I feel for all, all along. My wife begins to worry and sometimes I do, she's concerned about my lack of worrying!!
I think in your situation, I reckon you are just glad that your wife is still upfront about her lack of beliefs. I would think it be better this way rather than having someone who pretends to be a believer and in reality they are something else. We have all seen our own sikhs with turban, uncut dhari portraying a khalsa image, but in reality they are up to no good and have no belief at all!!!
I would consider my self fortunate that one may be on a different and opposite boat to mine but at least they are clear and upfront about it rather than taking me for a ride.
The one fear I do have is exactly this, the fear of someone taking me for a ride and just playing with me with dishonesty. Maybe i've encountered it one too many times in my life from those very close to me, maybe. BUT, I would rather someone just be honest and upsetting to me rather than them being dishonest to please me, this I fear the most and is one of the reasons I hate dishonesty so much.

They say it takes 2 to argue, so I would just continue keeping my mouth shut and eyes and ears open, we can definitely learn much more this way.

Having a control over all your attachments is something that really helps. I am surprised at how I've come to this point where it seems much easier for once. I'm still at war with emotional attachments, but at one time, infact for decades I was very attached to physical posessions. Anyone that knows me would confirm, all I would wake up for,or want, would be the best belongings, best clothes, best looks, best cars,best holidays just infact the best of whatever I could afford, and that is all I woke up and worked for. -WHAT A WASTE- I am so glad that I realise just how much of my life I wasted, even though at the time I felt in control and in the right direction.
This complete change in my attitude and lifestyle has come thanks to the word of the guru's shabad that I can feel resonating in every bone thanks to sikhi and simran.
I really wish that I had started simple naam simran many many years ago.
All I can say for sure is that I know what I want in my life for once and for all, that is the ultimate truth- Waheguru.


Waheguru,waheguru,waheguru
Lucky Singh
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
1,644
1,643
Chazji,

I wish I had your calmness, I never get angry per se, but reading the above makes me realise how peaceful my married life is. My wife also does not believe in God, but has made every effort to debate with me and share with me my journey. I do not know how I could possibly handle what you describe, you must be some sort of hugely enlightened fellow.

If it were me in your situation, I would be practically broken, and although it makes me realise how dependent I am on my wifes good nature, and I suppose how sometimes I take advantage of it. As people we always want more, when I read your post, and realise how irritated I get because of the amount of time and money we spend on our animals, or because my wife has decided that another one of her patients needs heating paid, or shopping bought, I feel quite ashamed.

I have realised that no matter how good things are, perfection is always one step too far away, your post has made me realise just how discontented I manage to convince myself I am sometimes, and just how wrong I am to feel like this.

Thanks for sharing something so personal

My Friend,

On Forums, we can hide behind a name and can come across in anyway that we want to. I've read some of your earlier posts and you've spoken about some very personal things...but i connected with you more because i started understanding you as a real person who has had his own life journey...our messages between each other take a whole new meaning when we share something a little deeper.

And thats why i wanted to share something with the Sangat as well.
I'm no enlightened person :) i'm just someone that feels ashamed of how i've been in the past, and someone that is trying to understand my true self.

True happiness starts within the Home. And this takes 2 meanings...
1. in your home..with the family...keep positive energy around you and in your thoughts and behaviour as much as possible. #
2. in the home of your being (mind body and soul). be content, calm and focussed. (very easy to say, but can be difficult to implement).

My wife asks me on a daily basis why she is always getting into negative situations with people in her family, people at her job, friends.
My analysis is that she only see's her glass half empty and is always complaining about what she hasnt got and therefore always in a negative mood everyday....but she doesnt realise that her glass is already half full and she has so much already :)
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
1,644
1,643
Chazji,
Firstly, I would like to say well done for staying calm. It's amazing how one's calmness can help diffuse many situations. I can't comment on a personal level as such, but you should carry on and conduct your self in this manner with the help from the lord.
You see my friend, they're all tests of my character. All my life i've thought of myself as calm...my Job requires me to be calm..i've been labelled at work as being the 'calm one'. But my home situation started bringing the anger and emotions out...I don't blame my wife for this...she's there so that my weaknesses are highlighted. but my Simran has allowed me to recognise when this happens and prevent it from influencing my actions...which has kept me going strong, focussed and with a renewed level of dedication to Waheguru Ji...


I personally have been amazed in the calmness attained with the help of the almighty. Wether it's my meditation and simran, or my increased activity in sikhism or just a combination of all. I do find that in situatutions I face in everyday life, I seem to have a completely different attitude. I was always the 1st to complain and start tearing my own hair as well as others, but I'm completely the opposite. If someone does something or says something upsetting, I just can't help feeling sorry for their view that's causing them to be upset.-sounds a little crazy at times, but this immense love is what I feel for all, all along. My wife begins to worry and sometimes I do, she's concerned about my lack of worrying!!
This sounds familiar. I too get told of my seemingly lack of worrying :)
But it's the exact opposite...i try and remain positive...i look at what i have and thank god for everything he has provided and not focus on the things i don't have. My view is to work hard, honestly and truthfully...whatever else is provided in my life will come as and when its needed and with Gods will.
There's nothing more i now dislike about gossiping, bickering amongst family member, slandering. My wife has trouble keeping relationships because of all of these things...and she gets upset when i dont partake in the slandering or gossiping...it's all a waste of time :) and i feel sorry for people that have to do this. they're actually ruining themselves without knowing.

I think in your situation, I reckon you are just glad that your wife is still upfront about her lack of beliefs. I would think it be better this way rather than having someone who pretends to be a believer and in reality they are something else. We have all seen our own sikhs with turban, uncut dhari portraying a khalsa image, but in reality they are up to no good and have no belief at all!!!
I would consider my self fortunate that one may be on a different and opposite boat to mine but at least they are clear and upfront about it rather than taking me for a ride.
I agree, But i knew my wife for almost two years before we got married, and she portrayed the view of wanting to be more spiritual, doing Seva and charity, her dislike of being overly materialistic and appreciating the finer things in life...smiling, laughing, sitting with friends and family...sharing etc.
So there was an initial shock at how different she became (exact oposite to the above). I was told that if you do Simran on the mantra 'Satnaam' that around you the 'true - SAT' feelings of people start to become apparent...and this is what happened. Simran has taught me to flow with the Tide of life, and not fight against the wind...good or bad i'm sure i'll get through it :)



The one fear I do have is exactly this, the fear of someone taking me for a ride and just playing with me with dishonesty. Maybe i've encountered it one too many times in my life from those very close to me, maybe. BUT, I would rather someone just be honest and upsetting to me rather than them being dishonest to please me, this I fear the most and is one of the reasons I hate dishonesty so much.

They say it takes 2 to argue, so I would just continue keeping my mouth shut and eyes and ears open, we can definitely learn much more this way.
Words are so powerful. if we don't learn that words hurt people then we will always continue to experience these arguments in our life until we learn the power of forgiveness and compassion.

Having a control over all your attachments is something that really helps. I am surprised at how I've come to this point where it seems much easier for once. I'm still at war with emotional attachments, but at one time, infact for decades I was very attached to physical posessions. Anyone that knows me would confirm, all I would wake up for,or want, would be the best belongings, best clothes, best looks, best cars,best holidays just infact the best of whatever I could afford, and that is all I woke up and worked for. -WHAT A WASTE- I am so glad that I realise just how much of my life I wasted, even though at the time I felt in control and in the right direction.
Same here - I was the same.
We do not need to sit in simple clothes with a begging bowl. We should work hard and truthfully and enjoy any success that comes our way...but with this success, use it the Sikhi way and that is to share with others as much as possible, eat healthy and live healthy so that you can serve and do Simran in a healthy state for as long as possible...A person can Drive a porche and yet be the most humble person on the planet.
This is what I've learnt a long the way...
We can either Collect belongings, get attached to them, sit in pride and Ego of our belongings...look down at others...get jelous of who has more, and then try to collect more than them...a vicios cycle.
Or we can work hard, and whatever we receive we look outwards at how we can help family, friends, people in need, use the money to remain healthy, focused and strong for this purpose...but to also enjoy the wonders of the world that god has created in awe at his excellence.

This complete change in my attitude and lifestyle has come thanks to the word of the guru's shabad that I can feel resonating in every bone thanks to sikhi and simran.
I really wish that I had started simple naam simran many many years ago.
All I can say for sure is that I know what I want in my life for once and for all, that is the ultimate truth- Waheguru.


Waheguru,waheguru,waheguru
Lucky Singh

God bless all
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
Well hairs are part of nature but so is appendix , nails , teeth etc ... Facial hairs or hair on the body overall serves no very special purpose. Cutting them doesn't effect the nature of the man...so I see no logic in keeping your hairs. Specially , the facial hairs of girls/women..Women/girls look weird with mustaches and unnecessary facial hairs. Won't you agree? Mustaches are for men , not for women... Appendix is also a part of human body but it now serves no purpose..so many people remove it....facial hairs are also a part of body but don't serve any purpose..removing them should not be a problem. Also , most Sikh girls remove theirs anyways...
 
Nov 14, 2004
408
388
63
Thailand
Harry ji,


I accept your argument about aspiring, one has to be oneself, and find ones own centre, as a Sikh, this means stripping away the anger, the hate, the agitation through understanding rather than modelling.

Obviously I am no better than the average person in terms of accumulated tendency to kindness, morality and so on on and have no less hatred, greed, ignorance etc. In fact I have very strong attachments and get angry more easily than most people. And when I think about people like Bin Laden and Gadhafi, knowing myself, it is easy for me to imagine that I have been worse in past lifetimes and will likely be so in future ones. It just happens that the conditions in this lifetime have been such that this has not happened and probably will not.

But all this is to be expected, since change must happen very, very gradually. Indeed it has been compared to using a knife. One does not see how much the handle is worn away when observing one day after another, but only after a long time will you see that it has worn away a little. And according to the Buddha, the first step is the eradication of wrong understanding and doubt and with these, also miserliness and jealousy. And this is already aeons away for someone like me, not to mention anger, sensual desire, conceit, attachment to being and ignorance which are further down the road (although not long after). And what does this point to?

That if we think to fight sensuous attachments, conceit and anger we are in fact invariably encouraging them in other forms and towards other objects. The cause as well as what results is perversion of perception, of consciousness and of understanding. It is this latter which gives the impression not only that we should try to fight these vices, but also the illusion that we have had some success in lessening them.

So long as there is wrong understanding, other evils will not lessen one bit, in fact they are being encouraged in other forms, including to the very idea of being without particular ones. All this is the result of “attachment to self” and the illusion is due to the fact that wrong understanding feels right to the person who has it. It is also from not understanding that the root of the problem is not attachment, aversion and so on, but in fact “ignorance”.

The Buddha gave the example of a man trying to cross the flood (comparable to the flood of desire, aversion, and ignorance). If he strains, he is swept away. If he stands still, he sinks. The former is when for example, with wrong understanding we try to fight our vices, one obvious manifestation of which is asceticism. The other is when we indulge in them thinking that they are not harmful, as in hedonism. The Middle Way is that of understanding which sees the danger of all those mental phenomena and therefore also of any attachment to the idea of being without them. Hence the Path is that of understanding all the way through characterized by a corresponding level of detachment. In other words, a desire to be rid of attachment, aversion or conceit is to be replaced by detachment conditioned by the understanding that that these will lesson only by the gradual development of wisdom.

There are no shortcuts, therefore if you find yourself being attracted to some particular method to grow in morality and wisdom, this again must be due to a perversion of understanding. It is the same when we idealistically go out and try to be proactive in “doing good”, such as what we do in the name of Sewa. It all comes down to “attachment to self” and therefore must in the final analysis be all about me, mine and I. And this is not the way to enlightenment, but in fact more ignorance and more attachment.

I see Creator as a big brother who I would like to be more like, but through my own understanding not imitation. I have to accept that to want to be like someone else, even if it is Creator, is a dangerous path, one can only hope to be ones true self.

There is in Buddhism an object for the development of calm which is “reflection on the qualities of the Buddha”. But who can have such an object? Obviously only the one who does have the depth of understanding to see the true value of all those qualities? So what happens if some so called Buddhist tries to concentrate on what he thinks is a Buddha and the qualities that is possessed by such a one, but in fact is quite ignorant and does this with attachment? The result would be even more perversion of perception, consciousness and understanding would it not?

There is also the problem in thinking in terms of “persons” that this takes the attention away from the qualities themselves. So we risk ending up worshiping the person and this can't be good, can it?

I agree with your paragraph on miracles, I do not live to appease God in the hope of good things happening, I see God as quite detached from the world. I do not pray, or hope to catch a smile or a cheery nod, nor do I live in fear of a frown or a grimace, judgement comes through Creation.

You are probably being too confident. If he is up there somewhere, you will inadvertently every now and then; be seeking approval for your different acts. Just like what happens here, often we write and wonder if anyone will approve of it.

The Nihang/battle issue is murky, I think we may be at odds here, but I will concede that battles can be fought without hate and anger. I also accept that a valid contribution to a battle is to be a medic, the murkiness stems from my lack of belief in reincarnation.

But before reincarnation (rebirth), there must be belief in karma. So yes, I think this is one of the obstacles. In fact it has been pointed out as one of the main obstacles to the development of wisdom. But as I pointed out in our earlier discussions, this is not about blind acceptance, but about understanding. To not believe because one does not yet have the basis to do so is one thing, but to reject it altogether as a result of some wrong understanding about moral cause and effect, this is really harmful.

Ignorance is dark, but on hearing about the Truth a little light can occasionally come through. Wrong understanding on the other hand, is to be facing in a direction where darkness is seen as light, so how can one expect that any real light will ever come through?

Direction-normally I am at peace with myself and my surroundings, at present I feel like I am in a war zone.

We are all more or less in the same boat Harry ji. If I told you about my life, especially in light of what just happened last week, your hair will definitely stand on its ends. I am however encouraged by the fact that although there has been so much aversion (to the point of depression), understanding could still intermittently arise from time to time. But then again the problem is really our habit of thinking in terms of stories about self and other. If instead we could see things in terms of moment to moment experiences, the problems will not appear as such.

Your comments on Karma work well coupled with a belief in reincarnation, as I lack the belief in reincarnation, I cannot comment.

You have perhaps accumulated so many preconceptions about the one that this continues to be an obstacle to taking the first necessary step, namely that karma is about your experience “now”. The idea about future lives comes from understanding the nature of that which makes up your day to day experiences such as attachment, aversion, kindness, morality and so on.

I do not agree with the 'giving is always good'. When I give, I give my all, and am always let down. My wife has made the comment that firstly, I should never even expect a thank you, and secondly, I should never give so much that I am left with nothing, so I guess my idea of giving is flawed.

I am perceived by some people as the most generous person they personally know. This has put me and my family in a lot of financial trouble, so much so that I am now quite sure that I will not be able to pay for my children's college education and I fear this very much. I regret having helped all those people, but only to the extent that I did not at the time consider wisely. But was my giving bad, no, of course it wasn't. Indeed if I thought otherwise, not only will I not get my money back, I will have added more problems and much worse, namely aversion and wrong understanding.

I sense a philosophy of giving and loving and leaving the rest to Karma, is this correct?

Not really. Firstly is it about the development of understanding all the way through. This of course will include seeing the value of giving, kindness and so on, which by virtue of the very understanding are encouraged to arise.
And contrary to what some opponents of Karma think, understanding leads to less and less thinking about what the future will bring, (including what rebirth) but more the nature of the “cause” *now*.

However if one does not believe in Karma as you have defined, then the responsibility surely rests with the giver.

If this sense of responsibility comes with the perception of “me”, “mine” and “I”, how can it be good? Anyway, you will have seen from my previous comment that a correct understanding about karma actually leads to thinking in terms of cause which is this moment, and this to me *is* the only real expression of responsibility.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated, I was sitting at home taking it in turns to annoy the animals when my wife insisted I go to the shop and post, it makes you peaceful, she says....

And thank you for giving me the opportunity to sort out my thoughts and for hearing me. ;-)
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,708
14,381
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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
can any Buddghist tell me....why do Buddhists feel the need to go BALD ??? I have never seen a Buddhist MONK who is long haired....why they believe HAIR interferes with their spirituality ?? Has there ever been a Holy man in Buddhism with long hair/dastaar ??..why NOT ??
 
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