Sikhism Why Do Sikhs Keep Hair?

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji

Well I don't agree that the turban should be the focus and not the hair because one does not wear a turban on one's beard. But I take your point.

Actually I am not disagreeing with you -- the thesis really does contain the notion that going against norms :advocate: places someone in a dilemma.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat ji

Well I don't agree that the turban should be the focus and not the hair because one does not wear a turban on one's beard. But I take your point.

Actually I am not disagreeing with you -- the thesis really does contain the notion that going against norms :advocate: places someone in a dilemma.

I never said a turban should be the focus....

Random X2 ji, you pretty much summarized it all.

You said:

Quote:
I feel that there's really only one reason that a Sikh should keep his/her hair: to ensure that others can easily identify the person as a Sikh. Sikhs are supposed to live with certain moral values and ethics. Upon seeing someone with a turban, one familiar with the Sikh religion should realize, "This person is a Sikh. I can count on them if I need help" et cetera.

so...its not the hair that is the identity, its the turban... since anyone can have long hair and many do.
It seems to me that the identity argument is in support of the turban not hair.. hence you have people with haircuts and turbans.

...

I think my focus is different. It's going against the social norm, and getting everyone to do so... and not worrying about the identity because I think the turban is the Sikh identity (explained in previous post) and not the hair.

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji

OK -- you never said that the turban is the focus. This is what you said, "I think the turban is the Sikh identity (explained in previous post) and not the hair." And I say you cannot wear a turban on your beard. In the interest of considering kes as well an integral part of Sikh identity...

Let us not split hairs (Boo! and pardon the pun.)

 

[BhagatSingh]

First of all, you are not getting what I am saying.
I said that the Sikh identity ironically becomes the turban because its "Upon seeing someone with a turban, one familiar with the Sikh religion should realize, "This person is a Sikh. I can count on them if I need help" et cetera. " - RandomX2
And I agree with him, that's exactly what happends. You don't see a guy with long hair and say that, you say it if you see a guy with a TURBAN.
He could have a guy with no beard and cut hair underneath!!
It's the turban, one will look at and think "He's a Sikh".


Second of all, the following statement does not follow...

And I say you cannot wear a turban on your beard.

Ya I know you can't wear a turban on your beard... technically you could but you dont. SO WHAT? What does that have to do with what you thought I said?

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji

Wait a second. We are forgetting something. Sikhs are not the only ones who wear turbans. Kes is a big part of the total picture.

Of course I was joking about wearing a turban on your beard. It was a bad joke. But you seem to be saying that dastar is the distinctive feature, and not kes, and I am saying that even if hair is covered by a turban, the beard and the turban, together go hand in hand.

Maybe you have to make your point in different words LOL because the image of a Sikh Without His Flowing Hair and Turban is an image that could be depicting something ambiguous.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Nj ji

Wait a second. We are forgetting something. Sikhs are not the only ones who wear turbans.

We are fogetting something else... Sikhs are not the only ones with long hair. Humans have them too! ...long hair lovers, beard lovers, hippies, rastafarians, some hindus, etc... Its not the point but keep this in mind and continue with my post...

When you say that

even if hair is covered by a turban, the beard and the turban, together go hand in hand.

I know what you mean and I would say that too.
BUT! this is not what we find in reality. It's definitely an ideal and I agree that what you say is the Sikh idenity.
The reality is that a short haired, no beard guy specially with a "double patti" turban will come off as a Sikh (even better if he has a kara) . So did hair play any role in his identity? NO
This is the reality we have to face with. Even though, kes is part of identity...since the turban covers up the kes... and we dont get to see them... the turban alone acts as an insignia of a Sikh!



Once you understand, what I am saying here, you will see what I mean but not focuing on the identity... rather we should focus on the social change. Wait, perfect example would be Guru Nanak... he focused on social change, he ould dress like muslims when speaking to muslims... dress like hindus when speaking to hindus. Well, i heard he had a general dress suited to both but you get my point.... right?

 

[spnadmin]

Nj ji

We are fogetting something else... Sikhs are not the only ones with long hair. Humans have them too! ...long hair lovers, beard lovers, hippies, rastafarians, some hindus, etc... Its not the point but keep this in mind and continue with my post...

When you say that I know what you mean and I would say that too.
BUT! this is not what we find in reality. It's definitely an ideal and I agree that what you say is the Sikh idenity.
The reality is that a short haired, no beard guy specially with a "double patti" turban will come off as a Sikh (even better if he has a kara) . So did hair play any role in his identity? NO
This is the reality we have to face with. Even though, kes is part of identity...since the turban covers up the kes... and we dont get to see them... the turban alone acts as an insignia of a Sikh!



Once you understand, what I am saying here, you will see what I mean but not focuing on the identity... rather we should focus on the social change. Wait, perfect example would be Guru Nanak... he focused on social change, he ould dress like muslims when speaking to muslims... dress like hindus when speaking to hindus. Well, i heard he had a general dress suited to both but you get my point.... right?

Bhagat ji

I did get the message about social change at the beginning. But I was just reacting to that one specific issue about the turban trumping the kes. And someone without kes in a turban does not look like a Sikh -- I am sorry -- simply does not.

 

[BhagatSingh]

You dont see the kes in a turban...
now you'll mention the beard...I dont know about you but a beardless Singh or Singhni strikes as a Sikh to me in a crowd... whether the beard maybe cut or shaved or simply not present... What tells me He/She is a Sikh is the turban ... I dont know if they have cut hair, uncut hair or no hair inside...


Again UNCUT Kes + Turban = Identity is an Ideal not reality.

 

[AusDesi]

Can someone explain to me. I understand that as part fo 5Ks sikhs need to keep long hair BUT why do you need to tie them in a turban?

 

[Ishna]

It's interesting to note that, for people of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha, the 5th K is actually Keski, not Kesh.

Some reasons...

The turban was very sensible in 1699. The people in power wore turbans - it wasn't for the common folk. So, Sikhs wore turbans as a symbol of their (and all of humanity's) equality.

The turban is a neat and secure way of covering such a mass of hair on one's head.

It provides some measure of protection during battle (even more if wrapped with metal coils).

It makes a Sikh stand out, easily identifiable on the battlefield and in the community.

 

[Parma]

For me personally my Guru is the Shabad Guru Granth Sahib ji. If a preferred unique uniform is other people's options that is up to them but to live in hukam is to live in accordance with the Guru Granth Sahib ji it isn't wrong regardless of how much sat sangat, I or anyone else stands out or against the message. The shabad Guru Granth Sahib ji Translation; saram surat du-ay saur bha-ay. A TRANSLATION FROM SOMEONE ELSE; Modesty, humility and initiative understanding are my mother-in-law and father-in-law. To me that translation would signal what is most welcoming in your marital home keep within that appearance. When it comes to understanding of the 5 k's systematic initiation of appearance, I don't know what else to say upon the issue of appearance as the Guru Granth Sahib gives its own authority of surat=appearance. The Guru Granth Sahib ji's own expression of surat. The rest I leave for each individual to find out there own knowledge and experience of understanding of it. End of debate for me. God bless.