Yogism Yoga In Sikhism

[Sikh80]

Re: Sikh Names

Yes, cleansing of mind is the best cure.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Sikh Names

." It's really shocking that people have a Guru and are so completely dislocated from the history as not to recognize basic role of Guru, basic purpose of Guru, basic process of yoga. Every Guru in existence teaches a form of yoga. That is just arguing with words to say otherwise. Just to grab tuk from Gurbani where Guruji says yoga practices don't lead you to God doesn't mean HIS spiritual path (a form of yoga) doesn't lead to God
. You are free to take the meaning of Yoga as you wish; however, Guru Nanak’s followers understand that they do not need it.

PK70 Ji,

What is your understanding of Jog or Yog as per SGGS ?

 

[pk70]

Re: Sikh Names

Quote Harjas Kaur khalsa Ji
Veer ji, I have to admit you did make me laugh.

Respected Bhain ji, I am glad you are in high spirits; it makes me proud of you.
How am I smelling out yoga? Obviously that is the discussion.
Veer ji,
What yoga am I promoting?
Kindly always bear in mind, my target is not you but the views appear to be strange in context of Falling in love with Him as advocated by Gurbani. What the Yogis were doing was not appreciated by Guru ji, so he expressed the real meaning of Yoga. They were expert in physical techniques but their minds were mess. “This is the way to be Yogi” Gur Vaak clears the mist. If now some one is bring that mist again in to Sikhism I shall accuse them that they are doing for money otherwise why they are picking up yoga over mind cleaning?
"So these are not exemplary groups to understand Gurbani."

"Above I answered it how Guru ji gives meaning to the prevailed words (used to influence people to milk money)"

"From what part of brain attaches this Shabad to Yoga (or caste system?)"

You don't even see the unfair implications you're attributing to me when I share an opinion. WHAT MONEY? I don't belong to any yoga group. I feel I am part of a Jatha but I don't get or give a single penny and no one is giving katha on yoga.
If you read the above second my quote, milking money is implied to the people who were influencing people with their expertise of Yoga exercises. The last statement was about attaching that Guru Vaak in which he states about Yogi Dharm, and other Castes as asserted by others. If they do it today, goal remain unchanged.It has nothing to do with you for sure.
You were talking about jap Ji not being totality of Gurbani , I would say that Guru Vaak from Jap Ji ( FIR KE AGGAI RAKHEEAI..)is an essence of Sikhism.Here I must make it clear that I would not use such words for you at all. I have highly regard for you as my fellow Sister. All this is said about those who promote such things in the name of Guru.
Are you suggested Panthic Jathas are not exemplary? Is this how you prove your personal opinion?
Bhain Ji any one who makes link with Yoga, Hinduism etc is not exemplary. Only one source to guide us on Guru Nanak Panth is Guru Granth sahib Ji, period.
Next, you bring up unfavorable associations like "caste system." Why is this? Do you believe yoga has to do with Hinduism, Manu Simritis and Caste discrimination?
If you reread it, you will find out the reason. Let me put it in different way. You wrote in your post that why there are references of Yoga. I wrote back that those are mere reference. If Guru ji makes reference it does not mean Guru ji believe in it. Guru ji makes reference of Castes in the quoted Shabad. My question is, due to those references to Castes, should we think Guru ji believes in them? Answer you know, NO.. So why you are saying that Yoga- references are in GGS Ji therefore Guru ji believe in it. Is it clear why caste reference I used in context of Yoga??
It's all lumped together like one gigantic evil thing, and the mere mention has to do with scoundrels who steal money? Do you think you prove something by talking about caste discrimination?
Bhain Ji, my views are not even mine, they are sculptured by Gurbani, how can this kind of idea come in my mind, just take things easy, read slowly. jumping on conclusion really doesn’t serve purpose of our debate.
Are you implying that I approve of caste discrimination? I never said, how you are multiplying, it is beyond my comprehention. It was used to clear the aim of Guru ji’s references to Yoga, hindu Devtas or mythology or castes.I think you have programing in your own mind that word yoga has so much negative connotation that you can't even accept it in Gurbani.
I gladly accept that Guru Granth Sahib is programming me, thanks.

Where do you come up with such negativity? Guru Sahib Himself has stated in the very shabad there is a true and wholesome yoga and become that Yogi!
Guru ji hasn’t said that, people are dreaming and you know what happens when they dream
Veer ji what on earth do you mean? Guru Sahib is deliberately using such terminology to talk to people from sects and religions to repudiate it all and thus the terms in Gurbani are some kind of accident of history and don't really mean what they say? This doesn't make sense. You admit the yoga terminology is in Gurbani but you reject that it means what it says. So you are redefining words to suit your own interpretation?
Bhain ji, we talk about different cults in U S A, do we believe in their philosophy? Same way Guru ji used their terms to take mist out and help people to walk on right path.
What is meaning of praan?
What is meaning of dhyaan?
What is meaning of chakr?
What is meaning of dasm duar?
What is meaning of vibrate on the tongue?
What is meaning of Ire, Pingala and Shushmana?
Here is your problem; you are sticking with the words in stead of analyzing what Guru ji says himself about these words. “ Brahmin jo Braham binde” Remember, here Braham is not Brahama but GOD Himself, Brahamin, not those pundits but those who knows HIM. See the words and their use in Gurbani. I am glad you have asked it, hope you will not glue to these words only .
And then explain how it is all there by accident, bad translation, and whatever other excuse. All you have shown is Guru is teaching us not to fall into failures of false, hypocritical practice but to accomplish the real inner cleansing which was not available in the past and requires:

1. Satguru
2. Naam

But it doesn't say there are no no more chakrs no more tenth gate no more nine openings, no more amrit that trickles down from unlocking dasm duar. It doesn't say yoga is fake and bad don't practice anything just listen to Kirtan in Gurdwara it's good enough to liberate you
Your statement seems to be of a Hindu who claims Sikhism is off shoot of Hinduism, Such Hindu would say”Gurbani believes in our Avtars. So you follow Guru and we are right to follow Ram and Krishan but never forget you are Hindu because your Guru believes in what we do ”like Such Hindu,you are forgetting Guru ji also said” Kete Ram Rwel”, that makes Hindu’s Ram very insignificant because like him(Ram), there were many. The last part of your question is just funny. I am saying loudly, it comes down to battle within, here look what you are asking. You quoted above Guru Vaak from Japji, doesn’t it say all?
.1 Explain please HOW you will receive Naam, and2 HOW you will be able to overcome your panj vikaars, and3 HOW you will purify your karam, and4 HOW you will vibrate Naam on your tongue, And5 HOW you will have Naam on your praan, and6 HOW you will seal the nine gates and unlock the tenth gate, and 7HOW you will have amrit-nectar trickle down onto your tongue so you can have darshan of Vaheguru and perceive the three worlds and transcend duality. How exactly does this happen veer ji? By being a married man, a householder, going to job, raising kids, going to Gurudwara and doing seva and listening to kirtan? What practices exactly are going to liberate you, and HOW?
I have given numbers to your questions; let me answer it as per my limited ability.1 Naam is received with only HIS blessings. 2. Follow Gurbani and start a battle against them within. 3. Battle will lead you to purify deeds. 4. Let me answer this with one example. In day to day life, if some thing is extra done for us by any one, we remember him/her for a while. Same way feel Guru’s blessings and Guru’s presence will take over the heart, Guru loudly says to be lost in His memory. This state of mind will differentiate you from others because not others are bad but because they are not in that state of mind Guru led you to it.5 this question is answered in answer # 4; Its an expression, to be tuned to HIM. 6 When battle starts, slowly battle starts turning light, eventually mind takes over the five Vikar, that stage could unlock the unknown gate, but this can happen with His blessings as per Gurbani. 7. Guru Nanak Dev answers this question please follow him strictly, all the answers I gave are part of Guru ji’s guidance. Please read Ram kli Mehla 1 P .877, you will be elevated how Guru ji first takes on the questions then answers them so beautifully. I highly recommend you to study that. I also try to say in this context on another thread, may be it was “Punj beloved pyare” some thing like that.
Please tell where I advocated support of Bramanism or caste discrimination simply because I am pointing out references to yogic terminolgy in Gurbani which you even acknowledge is there. This is not fair to make so negative an association with my words.
You support Brahmanism by saying Vedas are wisdom when Guru ji clearly says Vedas talk about Give and take trade in context of religion but Guru Nanaks wisdom is all about His praise and love for HIM. About caste system, I already elaborated it, you just misunderstood completely. When I see some distort Gurbani, imply meaning which are not meant by Guru ji, I have no other choice to look at such people as harmful to Sikhi; please mind it, it is not about you, it was addressed to those who do that including AJC etc
What yoga group do I belong to veer ji which is so offensive to you? If I read katha by a Taksali baba or Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, how does it become a yoga group teaching against Gurbani? I'm sharing insights others have had because I find them wise and insightful. You don't disprove anything by making attack on credibility of persons or Jathas or alleging caste system, people after money or other irresponsible mistatements. Have I alleged anything like this of you?
Again Bhain ji you are just dragging caste system to debate, secondly, you stated in the beginning as Yoga exercises are ancient wisdom to meet HIM. If you were just posting their views who advocate it, then I was wrong to associate you with them. You quoted these people as Brahm gyani, its hard to swallow their views as Sikhs. When Sikhs were in Jungles, lot of damage was done by people with Hindu mentality. Today we are paying dearly. Just look at Arti, Guru ji says clearly it is being done, why Sikhs do arti, in Gurdwaras?why? To please who? Does Guru Shabad permote that? No. Now one request please doesn’t take this debate to Arti.
I quoted a statement by Yogi Bhajan. That makes me a follower and practitioner of his yoga
Why did you feel important to even quote him? Just to tell me that you know so much about these things?
Raja yoga means raja yoga. It's not even something new. Otherwise the Gurbani would read grehsti and faqiri. Think for a moment of the illogic. Guruji teaches a middle way path, to be a renunciate while being a householder. Be this kind of Yogi he says. Yet, you want to distort the translation to meaning faqir. Raja yoga is ancient, a very specific path. And it is clear to anyone with basic knowledge of yoga that raja yoga is indeed the kind of yoga Guru Nanak Dev Ji has given.
Bhain ji, please do not be adamant on this issue. There are tow main respected Sikh scholars, Bhai Veer Singh ji and Dr sahib singh ji , both agreedthat “Jog” is actually means to be tuned to Him, not to go through Yoga exercises. Gurbani where speaks in favor of Yoga, it is about mind’s total devotion towards GOD,( GGS JI730, 908, 1366) Faqiri also states same meaning, you didn’t like this word, stick to your words but Guru ji says same thing. Promoting Yoga is simply taking masses away from the real goal. Reading Vedas as ancient wisdom, doing Yoga as ancient wisdom, doesn’t fit in us.
If Guruji is saying enjoy the balance of renunciation and family life, how does this condemn yoga? Unless you have the misperception that yoga is only negative, hypocritical, severe renunciation, caste system, Hinduism, etc, and that you can't be a yogi following middle path and teachings of Guru Nanak? Yet, this is exactly what the Gurbani is saying. Guru is saying be a Yogi! So obviously, this is a form of yoga.
So Guru Ji used the word, o Yogi” He also used word “ o pande” and more. You know it is waste of time to take a word as more important than the Guru Shabad as whole and keep writing. All the quotes given by you do not support the views you hold in context of Gurbani. I am hundred percent about that. Keep saying, real Sikhi comes with Yoga and I will keep saying it is not. I thought I understand you, now I feel, I don’t at all.
So Guru Sahib only uses those terms because it was the historical prevailing view. And if He were here now it would all be modern and the words would be different? And all yoga, after all is just hypocrisy and fakery and about taking people's money?
Good thinking, keep it
Veer ji, do you really believe this? That is really misinformed and very prejudiced view.
Say these words to Guru Nanak please,, here is he speaks about it( Ram kli Mehla 1-904)I just learnt from him.
sBsY aUpir gur sbdu bIcwru ] hor kQnI bdau n, sglI Cwru ]
( In essenceOf all, is Guru Shabad and its understanding, rest whatever is said I do not accept)
Where did I say go read the Vedas?
You said They are “Ancient wisdom”, how Sikhs will know unless they read them. Now denying has started, I better just close it up.



Quote:
You just said in your own words "Yoga Dharm is about knowledge to discuss about Him." And Guruji's dharam is for us to do Naam simran.
Obviously you are not reading carefully just jump on answering. Bhainji, this is in essence translation of Guru Vaak. I think most of the time you do this,
"" Which part did the translator mistranslate? The raaj or the jog?
First you need to understand how Bhai Veer Singh ji and Dr Sahib Singh ji unlike you clearly state it is not about “ RAJ YOG”. Both can be wrong except you and I do not want to accept your views at all in this context, their views sound clearer than yours .
Quote: I'm glad you are a spiritual person. Now tell me, why do you persist in thinking yoga is just about physical postures?

I can not claim that. When Yoga word is used, all think like that unless a long lecture is given to clarify it.

The thing is, yoga is actually HOW you battle the inner vikaars. And the yoga taught in Gurbani is ajaapa jap. And just japping meaningless sounds is no use, so we believe shabad-jyot from the Naad is vibrating in the Naam which gives it power to cleanse our panj dhoots, purify our karam, pierce through our chakrs and open dasm duar. And this is *cough* yoga. But don't believe it if you don't want.
Respectfully I reject it out right. For me as guided by Guru Ji, it is battle within as Gurbani says.” Je to pyaar kheln ka chao…”

 

[Amandeep Singh]

ANyone interested in this topic seriously, should read Yoga Sutra by Patanjali. Things become quiet clear!
I think all classical forms of Yoga, especially patanjali's, and his extention in hatha yoga, as well as bakti-yoga, upanishdic yoga, tantric yoga, buddhist-yogachara, etc are against the core of Sikh Panth.
Yoga- which means to "Yoke together, or bring together two separate entities", has an inherent dualism built into it, which cannot be negated unless you oppose it to the greatest/classical Yoga texts (ie Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, and Hatha Yoga Paradipika).
The irreducible dualism of Purusha and Prakirti- ie the pure conscousness/mind Purusha over and against the active, fluctuating, natural Prakirti- cannot be thought of a life-negating interpretation of body/kudrat/world- Prakirti that is.
The path of Patanjali's and Hatha Yoga is a dualistic approach to life, where the senses, the Mann, the mat, the intellect and (in turn self itself ) has to be negated and suppressed by the practitioner. Through dharana (one-pointed-ness) dhyana (meditation), and samadhi (the cessation of the life-world) one arrive at the final samadhi of Kavaliya (sensation-less pure alone-ness).
This kaivaliya state is NOT union in any (Sikh) sense, firstly it means ALoneness, second, its not a collective/cosmic liberation but an entirely individual, ONE self/PURUSHA's liberation (from diluted, con-fused, existence with nature/prakirti). The collective/social approach of liberation in SIkhi, is irreconcilable with this appraoach. There can be no Sewa of the Other, let alone love. The avestha of "sagal bane aii", the aspirationg of "sarbat da Bhalla" is meaningless here.
Thirdly, there is no room fpr Nadar, Mehar, Kirpa, Bakshish... the singulr Purusha (atomististic yogic self) is on his own, the super-purusha lord- called Ishvara, is not a Waheguru, but another Purusha. He is valued only because he was never tainted by Bodily life, as all other (regular) purushas have been by being born! This is the zenith of perfection in patanjali: not ever having the filthy expereince of bodily existence! It is really quiet sad that people go around comparing, trying to synchretize the Guru Sahiban's Panth with this nihilistic life-negating theory that is a simply a manifestation of hatred of the physical, embodied existence.
What Maharaj has called the house of the True- as in "Balihari Kudrat Vasiya", "eh Sache ki Kothri", " Sache ter Khand Sache Brahmand"... - is devalued and emptied of life here, embodied life in its entirety pushed over to the side of Prakirti and set for annhilation, aka "Nirodha"-"cessation".
The socio-political, embodied, existence of the KHALSA cannot be subsumed under the systematic nihilism of Yoga, without violence and dishonest manipulation of the Texts: as we see in Yogi Bhajan's distortion and commodification of both Sikhi and Yoga. For in Bhajanism, the innocence of Yogic practice dies as well as the life-affirming radiance of Sikhi- at one hand yoga is reduced to "physical fitness" and "good health" subtracted from its spiritual yearnings; and on the other hand the NON-dual Khalsai spirit of spontaneous action= SAHAJ, as well as Political/social/collective fight for justice/sewa is marginalized. [Hence the cooperation of Bhajan with Indian intellegence Agencies in displacing the Sikh Struggle for Soveriegnity in Punjab, not to mention some horrendous acts of sexual abuse of (hence numerous pregnancies and law suitsin 1970s!, and also not to mention the sexual sercvices he offered to Visiting Indian POlitiicians etc. and then used their film records for extortion etc...!) Sorry for going off on to non-entities like Bhajan and his cult, but its really sad to see people get duped into his agencies, out of the good-ness of their heart- but luckily many White-Sikhs are recognizing his reality - seeing the exotic fetishization/mystification of SIkh life, and synchretism with YOga/hinduism/india etc. - and joining the path of the Guru Sahiban.
anyways,
I am open to serious discussion and responses, but please support arguements with Textual and philosophical history of the terms in questions.
Guru Fateh,
Amandeep Singh

 

[Astroboy]

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sidh-gosht/16421-siddha-goshti-projection-sahaj-yoga-professor.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESpyaU4nNZE&feature=related

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Amandeep Singh: "ANyone interested in this topic seriously, should read Yoga Sutra by Patanjali. Things become quiet clear! I think all classical forms of Yoga, especially patanjali's, and his extention in hatha yoga, as well as bakti-yoga, upanishdic yoga, tantric yoga, buddhist-yogachara, etc are against the core of Sikh Panth."

Is Bhai Gurdas Ji anti-Gurmat or does he teach things against the Sikh Panth? Can you please explain the vaar below or why Bhai Gurdas Ji is considered anti-Gurmat. Thank you.

ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਾਤੰਜਲ ਮਥਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਗਿ ਸੁਣਾਈ ।
saykhanaag paatanjal madiaa guramukhi saasatr naagi sunaaee|
Gurmukh Patanjali the (supposed) incarnation of the Sesnaga, very thoughtfully recited, the Naga-Shastra, Yoga Shastra (Patanjal-Yogasutras).

ਵੇਦ ਅਥਰਵਣ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਜੋਗ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਈ ।
vayd adaravan boliaa jog binaa nahi bharamu chukaaee|
He told in consonance with Atharvaveda that illusion cannot be erased without yoga.

ਜਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਮੈਲੀ ਆਰਸੀ ਸਿਕਲ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ ।
jiu kari mailee aarasee sikal binaa nahi mukhi dikhaaee|
It is similar to the fact where we know that without cleansing of the mirror, the face cannot be seen in it.

ਜੋਗੁ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਅਨਹਦ ਧੁਨਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ।
jogu padaarad niramalaa anahad dhuni andari|iv|aaee|
Yoga is cleansing praxis through which the surati gets absorbed into the unstruck melody.

ਅਸਟ ਦਸਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਗੀ ਚਰਨ ਲਗਾਈ ।
asat dasaa sidhi nau nidhee guramukhi jogee charan|agaaee|
Eighteen siddhis and nine treasures fall at the feet of a gurmukh yogi.

ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਜੁਗਾਂ ਕੀ ਬਾਸਨਾ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਾਤੰਜਲਿ ਪਾਈ ।
trihu jugaan kee baasanaa kalijug vichi paatanjali paaee|
In kaliyug, Patanjali talked about fulfillment of desires that remained unfulfilled in the three ages.

ਹਥੋ ਹਥੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਜੋਗ ਕੀ ਪੂਰ ਕਮਾਈ ।
hado hadee paaeeai bhagati jog kee poor kamaaee|
The complete achievement of yogic bhakti is that you every thing hand to hand.

ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨੁ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਸੁਭਾਈ ॥੧੪॥
naam daanu isanaanu subhaaee ॥14॥
The jiv should cultivate the nature of rememberance of God, charity and ablution (internal and external).

Vaar 1 Pauri 14 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji​

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Yoga- which means to "Yoke together, or bring together two separate entities", has an inherent dualism built into it, which cannot be negated unless you oppose it to the greatest/classical Yoga texts (ie Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, and Hatha Yoga Paradipika).

ਨਿਰਗੁਣੁ ਸਰਗੁਣੁ ਆਪੇ ਸੋਈ ॥
niragun saragun aapae soee ||
The Lord Himself is Unmanifest and Unrelated; He is Manifest and Related as well.

ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਹੋਈ ॥
thath pashhaanai so panddith hoee ||
Those who recognize this essential reality are the true Pandits, the spiritual scholars.
~SGGS Ji p. 128​

Parabrahm is 2 aspects, manifest and unmanifest.

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੧॥੪੪॥
naanak eaek joth dhue moorathee sabadh milaavaa hoe ||4||11||44||
O Nanak, the One Light has two forms; through the Shabad, union is attained. ||4||11||44
~SGGS Ji p. 30​

The idea of duality is rooted in a debate over the nature of light and matter dating back to the 1600s, when competing theories of light were proposed by Christiaan Huygens and Isaac Newton. Through the work of Albert Einstein, Louis de Broglie and many others, current scientific theory holds that all particles also have a wave nature.[1] This phenomenon has been verified not only for elementary particles, but also for compound particles like atoms and even molecules. In fact, according to traditional formulations of non-relativistic quantum mechanics, wave–particle duality applies to all objects, even macroscopic ones; we can't detect wave properties of macroscopic objects due to their small wavelengths.
Wave-Particle Duality

Duality is the nature of phenomenal reality. In our dimension of time and space, it is the property of existence. The amazing thing is the Unmanifeat and incomprehensible is shining His light here, where it can be perceived in the darkness of Maya by the grace of Satguru.

The first principle of the conscious energy field is that it's everywhere and that it manifests itself in everything. There is a realm of pure spirit that exists beyond the field - but in terms of the reality that surrounds us and that gave rise to us, the conscious energy field is ubiquitous...

The fifth quality of the field is that the field expresses itself through opposites. The conscious energy field creates experience through opposing energies - or at least that's our perception of it, because at the level of the field these oppositions are able to completely coexist. In the conscious energy field, a coin can be heads and tails at the same time. The distinction between a saint and a sinner doesn't exist. Both are part of the same energy field -- so at the deepest level everyone is both a saint and a sinner.

All of us are divine and diabolical at the same time. Sacred and profane at the same instant. And it's only because we contain these oppositions that our experience of life has any meaning. All experience is by contrast. You can't have hot without cold. You can't have pleasure without pain. You can't have up without down. Opposing energies create experience.

A still higher level of transformation is God consciousness. You can see and feel the life throb of the spirit in every object of perception. You realise that everything you see and hear and touch is animated by the full power and wisdom of the universe. This is the level of consciousness that generates synchronicity. It's very important to recognise and cultivate it within yourself. And the last state is unity consciousness. Where the spirit within you not only perceives but merges with the larger spirit - become one with it.
The 7 PRINCIPLES OF THE CONSCIOUS ENERGY FIELD

Duality is the opposition of energies that provide the matrix of consciousness and matter. Which in other terminology is called the Pakriti and Purusha. But the concepts are the same as Shiva and Shakti.

At the physical level, Prakriti is the body and the mind (kshetra or the field) with all their constituent parts, while Purusha is the indwelling witness Spirit, (kshetragna or the knower of the body), the pure, egoless consciousness that exists beyond the senses and the mind.

The Purushas are said to be of two kinds: the perishable and the imperishable. The body is the perishable Purusha (nothing but Prakriti), while the soul is the Imperishable One (15.16). The Supreme Purusha (Ishwara) is however neither of these. He is beyond the perishable (Prakriti) and higher than the Imperishable (inner Self), who sustains the three worlds by entering into them (15.17). Since He is beyond the perishable and higher than the Imperishable (Self) , He is called Purushottama (The Supreme Purusha) (15.18)

Prakriti is responsible for the illusion and the sense of duality. All vikarams, (changes ) and gunas are possible due to Prakriti only (13.19). Through the interplay of the gunas, it binds the indwelling Purusha to the sense objects and thereby becomes the cause of Its birth in both good and evil wombs (13.21).
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/prakriti.asp

We see that the definition of Ishwara is that of the Supreme Purusha, that which is nirgun, beyond the manifestation. Ishvara, is only another definition of Parabrahm.

ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਿੰਨ ॥
roop n raekh n rang kishh thrihu gun thae prabh bhinn ||
He has no form, no shape, no color; God is beyond the three qualities.
~SGGS Ji p. 283​

Ishvara (Sanskrit Īśvara ईश्वर "lord, master", from an adjective īśvara "capable") is a philosophical concept in Hinduism, meaning controller or the Supreme controller[1] (i.e. 'God') in a monotheistic sense or as an Ishta-deva of monistic thought. Ishvara is the Supreme Cosmic Spirit who maintains complete control over the Universe and all the sentient beings, which together also form the pan-organistic body of Ishvara. The triad of Ishvara along with the universe and the sentient beings is Brahman, which signifies the completeness of existence.

Ishvara is Parabrahman endowed with innumerable auspicious qualities (Kalyana Gunas). Ishvara is perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, incorporeal, independent, Creator of the world, its active ruler and also the eventual destroyer. He is causeless, eternal and unchangeable — and is yet the material and the efficient cause of the world. He is both immanent (like whiteness in milk) and transcendent (like a watch-maker independent of a watch).
Ishvara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥
jeh dhaekhaa theh rav rehae siv sakathee kaa mael ||
Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter.

ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਬੰਧੀ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜੋ ਆਇਆ ਜਗਿ ਸੋ ਖੇਲੁ ॥
thrihu gun bandhhee dhaehuree jo aaeiaa jag so khael ||
The three qualities hold the body in bondage; whoever comes into the world is subject to their play.
~SGGS Ji p. 21​

The three qualities derive from the Pakriti and the Purusha, or Shiva and Shakti, it's just terminology describing different aspects of the same energies. But it's also written in Gurbani, so these definitions can't be anti-Gurmat if their given in Gurbani.

The gunas (the primary qualities of Nature ) are three in number: sattva, rajas and tamas. They exist in all beings, including human beings, in various degrees of concentration and combinations. Depending upon their relative strengths and combinations, they determine nature of beings, its actions, behaviour and attitude and its attachment to the world it lives in. The primary purpose of the gunas is to create delusion, through desires and attachment and keep the beings under the perpetual control of Prakriti (7.13).

The gunas are born from Prakriti. The Divine does not reside in them but they reside in the Divine (7.12). In the Divine consciousness, they remain in a state of perfect balance. When this balance is disturbed, the manifest creation begins and beings come into existence with the combination of gunas in different proportions. Under their influence human beings cannot recognize the presence of God amidst us (7.14). Purusha alone seated in Prakriti enjoys the qualities produced by Prakriti. Because of association with the gunas (qualities), the division of reality and unreality take birth.(13.21). Thus the soul comes under the influence of the gunas.
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/gunas.asp

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਆ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
thrai gun keeaa pasaaraa ||
He formed the expanse of the entire universe from the three gunas, the three qualities.
~SGGS Ji p. 1003​

ਸਾਮ ਵੇਦੁ ਰਿਗੁ ਜੁਜਰੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ॥
saam vaedh rig jujar athharaban ||
The Saam Veda, the Rig Veda, the Jujar Veda and the At'harva Veda

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਹੈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ॥
brehamae mukh maaeiaa hai thrai gun ||
form the mouth of Brahma; they speak of the three gunas, the three qualities of Maya.

ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋ ਤਿਉ ਬੋਲੇ ਜਿਉ ਬੋਲਾਇਦਾ ॥੯॥
thaa kee keemath kehi n sakai ko thio bolae jio bolaaeidhaa ||9||
None of them can describe His worth. We speak as He inspires us to speak. ||9||

ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਸਪਤ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
sunnahu sapath paathaal oupaaeae ||
From the Primal Void, He created the seven nether regions.

ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਭਵਣ ਰਖੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥
sunnahu bhavan rakhae liv laaeae ||
From the Primal Void, He established this world to lovingly dwell upon Him.

ਆਪੇ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਕੀਆ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਕਮਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੦॥
aapae kaaran keeaa aparanpar sabh thaero keeaa kamaaeidhaa ||10||
The Infinite Lord Himself created the creation. Everyone acts as You make them act, Lord. ||10

ਰਜ ਤਮ ਸਤ ਕਲ ਤੇਰੀ ਛਾਇਆ ॥
raj tham sath kal thaeree shhaaeiaa ||
Your Power is diffused through the three gunas: raajas, taamas and satva.

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
janam maran houmai dhukh paaeiaa ||
Through egotism, they suffer the pains of birth and death.

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗੁਣਿ ਚਉਥੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੧॥
jis no kirapaa karae har guramukh gun chouthhai mukath karaaeidhaa ||11||
Those blessed by His Grace become Gurmukh; they attain the fourth state, and are liberated. ||11||

ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਉਪਜੇ ਦਸ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥
sunnahu oupajae dhas avathaaraa ||
From the Primal Void, the ten incarnations welled up.

ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੀਆ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥
srisatt oupaae keeaa paasaaraa ||
Creating the Universe, He made the expanse.
~SGGS Ji p. 1038​

 

[Astroboy]

BHAKTI YOGA OR THE YOGA OF LOVING DEVOTION


He who with unwavering devotion (Bhakti Yoga), does God service, has crossed beyond the strands, and is fit for salvation. BHAGAVAD GITA


It is a yoga of worship with loving and living faith, absolute and steadfast, in one's Isht-deva or the object of one's reverent adoration. It is a very popular path, most suited to those who are endowed with an emotional bent of mind. Selfless devotion is the keynote to success on this path. A bhakta or a devotee delights in rapturous strains, and is ever engaged in singing hymns in praise of his Lord and never gets weary of them. He tends to differ from a jnani both in his outlook on life and approach to God, for instead of seeking the true Self, which is also the Brahman, he sets up a dualism between himself and his God, whom he adores as a separate and superior being. But this dualism is not necessarily ultimate; the bhakta knows the secret that one becomes that which one adores.
The cult of bhakti occupies an important integral place in all the yogic sadhnas. In a jnani, it provides substantial support in the form of devotion to the cause of self-knowledge. In a Karma yogin, it manifests itself in the form of an effect, and finds its efflorescence in acts of loving devotion for the common weal of all creatures, for they are the creation of God.
The path of bhakti is characterized by three salient features: japa, prem and the symbolic representation of the object of veneration.
(i) Japa: It connotes the constant remembrance and repetition of God's name; in the beginning, orally, by means of the tongue, and then mentally. All the devotees engage in this practice irrespective of their religions orders. The practice of telling beads is widespread in the world. The Hindus name it mala, the Christians "rosary" and the Muslims tasbih. Unless it is performed with devotion and concentration, it defeats its purpose, for it runs the risk of becoming mechanical. Thus in some countries the whole practice has resolved itself into a mere rotating of a wheel on which are inscribed various prayers, only the hand being kept busy, while the mind instead of being fixed on God is left free to wander in worldly thoughts.
(ii) Prem Bhava or love-attitude assumes multitudinous forms with a bhakta. Sometimes, he assumes the role of a child, and clings to God as one does to his father or mother, and at other times altogether reverses the process and sports with Him as one does with his child. At times, he adopts an attitude of a friend and a companion (sakha-bhava), of a lover pining for his beloved spouse, of a devoted slave for his Master, or a tippler for the Saqi, as we find in the quatrains of Omar Khayyam. It all depends on one's varying moods and predilections. Christ always spoke of God as the "Father;" Paramhansa Ramakrishna adored Him as the "Mother;" Arjuna, the warrior prince, and Meera, the Rajput princess, always regarded Him as a Sakha or a friend and companion, while the Gopis sang songs of poignancy and grief as any love-smitten maiden would do for her lover.
(iii) Next comes the chosen symbol of the Lord. Everyone has his own conception of incarnations and God's manifestations. As the Nameless assumes many names, so does the Formless appear in many forms according to the desires of His devotees. One may find Him in a stone as Sadna did, another in an idol, for He is immanent in all forms and answers to the prayers of all His sincere bhaktas and never lets them down. One can, of course, serve the Lord when He appears as a Godman, a teacher of humanity like Buddha, Christ, Kabir, Guru Nanak, who by their very presence illumine the world.
The process of bhakti gradually widens the outlook of a bhakta until he sees the light of his chosen idol pervading everywhere in and around him, and he begins to feel himself expanding with love, till he embraces the entire creation of God. This is the climax to which love brings him. The process was powerfully illustrated in our own time by the life of Sri Ramakrishna. At first he worshiped the Divine Mother as the idol in the Dakshineswar temple, then as the principle that manifested itself in all things good and holy, and finally, as the spirit that pervaded everything, the evil no less than the good, considering even the courtesan as its manifestation. The stages of the progress of a true bhakta from dualism to monism, from a limited individuality to universality, are traditionally termed as under:

(a) Salokya: The stage where the devotee desires to dwell in the same region
as his Beloved.
(b) Sampriya: The stage where he not only wishes to dwell in the same region
but also in close proximity to his Beloved.
(c) Sarup: The stage where the devotee wishes for himself the same form
as that of his Beloved.
(d) Sayuja: The final stage when the devotee is content with nothing less than
becoming one with the deity.​

When a bhakta has reached the end of his journey, he no longer sees any duality, but beholds the one Deity pervading everything and everywhere. He may continue to speak of It in the manner in which he used to do, as a Father or a Mother, but he no longer knows any difference between that Being and himself, and so we read of Christ saying: "I and my Father are One."

 

[Astroboy]

JNANA YOGA OR THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE
(RIGHT DISCRIMINATION )
The path of Jnana is for those who are gifted with strong intellect or mental grasp and have a keen insight, capable of penetrating into the why and wherefore of things, so as to reach the core of reality. It means right discrimination and knowledge, the very first essential in the eightfold path of righteousness as enunciated by Buddha. It is from right understanding of the true values of life that everything else proceeds in the right direction, for without right and correct knowledge of Truth, all endeavors, with the best of intentions, are likely to go awry and land us sooner or later into difficulties.
The importance of true knowledge is felt in fact in all aspects of yogic life whether Karma Yoga or Bhakti Yoga. In Karma Yoga, one needs to know and realize that one has a right to action or work and not to the fruit thereof. As one cannot but do work, the work is therefore to be performed in the true spirit of one's duty, a dedication unto the Lord, with the mind fixed on Him. The renunciation of attachment to the fruits brings evenness of temper, and in the calm of self-surrender lies true yoga of contemplation, a perfect peace born of total surrender of one's life to God.
In Bhakti Yoga also, a bhakta or a devotee has, as a preliminary step, to understand the true significance of bhakti or devotion to the Lord and then to develop in himself a correct perspective, which may enable him to see the light of his Isht-Deva not only in human beings but in every form of life.
In short, the path of Jnana Yoga lays emphasis on the true knowledge of the inmost Reality that is, or the true nature of atman. "Self-contemplation," the keynote of a true jnani, tries with the exercise of proper discrimination, to separate the apparently giant little self (the outer man) from the little great Self within (the inner man), for the self is the foe of Self, and self when properly trained becomes the friend of Self. The aim of this yoga is to chase away the darkness of ignorance with the torch of knowledge. It is a highly analytical path and for its successful working, one has to adhere diligently to three things:
(i) Shravan or hearing: hearing the scriptures, the philosophic discourses, and above all, the living teachers of spirituality with first-hand experience of the Reality, who can transmit their own life impulse to those coming into contact with them, for it is in the company of the truly awakened soul that one awakens from one's long slumber.
(ii) Manan or thinking: It consists in intense and thoughtful contemplation of what one has heard and understood so as to concretize the abstract, and make intellectual concepts the pulse of moment-to-moment living through a careful exercise of discrimination that distinguishes at every step the true from the false. It amounts to freeing the soul from the noose of egoism by all possible means at one's command. It is like churning butter out of the buttermilk.
(iii) Nidhyasan or practice: It consists in shifting the center of gravity from the ephemeral and changing self to the abiding and eternal Self, from the circumference to the center of one's being. This gradually brings about detachment from the pairs of opposites--riches and poverty, health and disease, fame and ignominy, pleasure and pain, etc.--into which one and all tend to drift in the normal course of existence.
The path of Jnana is a short-cut to yoga but it is frightfully steep, and very few can take to it. It requires a rare combination of razor-sharp intellect and intense spiritual longing, which only a few like Buddha and Shankara possess.

 

[futurekaur]

okay I went back to the library and got out Dr. Sureet Kaur's book "The Sikh Way to God Realization" This book was part of her doctoral thesis at Punjabi University Patiala. She has an M.A in English and Panjabi, Diploma in Persian and M. Phil and Ph.D in Religious Studies.

She says: "We find that at many places Guru Nanak and other Gurus have used yogic terminology in connection with spiritual experience, which however has not been used in the traditional sense.

These traditional terms receive new meanings in the experience and belief pattern of Guru Nanak. The words like sehaj, anahad-sabad, dasam duar, sunn, etc would not be confused with thier origincal yogic connotations." p. 56

It's a short book so there is no index but I will be leafing through it for mentions of yoga. Since she was awarded her Ph.D. I'd say this is a mainstream opinion of a Sikh scholar.

 

[spnadmin]

futurekaur ji

Do you think that this book would be difficult to find in the US?

 

[futurekaur]

Aad ji;
I just put the worldcat no # 67359590 in Worldcat, (it's a global catalogue of library collections) her book is in University of Pensylvania, Duke University, Columbia University, and lots more university collections.
So see if your public library has Library Loan and they can order it for you for free. Just about every U.S. public library has library loan. A terrific resource.
You usually get it on loan for a month & probably can copy it. Just 167 pages. But so well done, and supported with Gurbani.
But I just looked and Manohar Books in India has it too.

 

[spnadmin]

futurekaur ji


This is great information. This has to be the way to get some other writings that I am interested in reading. Thanks a millions.