There is a difference between bandhghi and parroting and guru sahib have totally dismissed parroting by saying, ' har har karat nit kapat kamaveh hirda shud n hovie - by parroting one cannot be truthful. what is bhagti i.e. vin gun keetai bhagat n hoey without imbibing the divine trait process of transformation cannot begin if not living with godly traits then it is not bhagti, thus once we start living with divine trait this is automatically bhagti. To see God in all is real puja. To raise voice against injustice is bhagti. To abandon your shortcomings is real puja. Gurbani tells us, ''tan manh dhan arpeu(I tender my thought process which was impure/malafide and as such I used to live disturbed life forever) tissai prabh milaveh mohe' SGGS.256.18. Someone may pose a question if one does not have the 'dhan' then what shall he do. The 'dhan' over here is not being referred to material wealth but your inbuilt belief, our thought process which you consider as your capital or raas that is dhan.
Amrit Vela - Why We Must Put It Into Practice To Hear The Inner Shabad And For Inner Cleansing
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- May 9, 2006
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I'm not trying to bicker and it's disappointing that you see it this way. I'll cease and desist trying to talk about this here.
..just as you've spelt his name incorrectly [Manmohan instead of Mohinder], so too, has Japjisahib a habit of misinterpreting Gurbani correctly ! And hence the reason you don't see the word 'meditation' acknowledged anywhere.
Look here -
Japjisahib Ji has selected the above shabd from page 451, SGGSJ [post #37]. Sorry, I shan't go into the nitty-gritty of it all, but suffice to say the least and indeed a must: where the hell did "leave dehdhari guru" came from ? No where and no way that can be said by any of the Gurus. But of course, since its an agenda item for SPN to breakaway from mainstream Sikhism of parental Punjab to foreign frontiers, hired hands like Japjisahib are recruited to that very end. No surprise !
Ishna Ji, do yourself a favour, do everyone else a favour and get a translation of the above shabd from any learned soul and see if the words "leave dehdhari guru" can be had. Bet you me, you won't. However, for the sake of the argument, let's say Japjisahib have like you above, erred. Even then it doesn't stack up because the author of the above shabd, Guru Ramdas, couldn't have possibly made that statement [leave dehdhari guru] because it'd fly in the face of Him anointing the next dehdhari guru, Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Do you see ?
All is not doom n gloom - there is credit on part Japjisahib for importing the above shabd. Unwittingly, he has supplied the perfect tool to hammer home the message meditation a must.
Look here - [colour]
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਪਰਦੇਸੀ ਵੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਆਉ ਘਰੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਿਲਾਵਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰੇ ॥ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਲੀਆ ਮਾਣਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮੇਲੇ ਹਰੇ ॥੧॥ [SGGSJ, 451 - translation: god is within].
And since God is within and God is non physical, meeting with such a God can only be had via non physical means. One must naturally use non physical means of travelling to visit God in these metaphysical regions, meaning, meditation. The art of meditation is the non physical machinery, or for the better want of the word, "focused mind" used as a vehicle to make contact with the God within. For how else can something that is non physical [God] be realised by something that is physical ?
So yes, it's good to have people like Japjisahib on board to misinterpret Gurbani to allow punters like me to spice it up "desi style" - the true Nanak Sikhism.
Speak soon !
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Oh my!
What are we on to scribble this unintelligent babble?
The stuff must be a lot more potent and hallucinating than the masala cha for sure.
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Finally!
Thanks for your self-reflection and candour.
We all need to clean our inner septic tanks quite often and you have done a great job in cleaning yours.
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Original Jee Thank you for uttering my name five times in a post. Hope this was not part of meditation though I can see your love for Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh. Good luck to you alongwith honeypreet. She is fat little bit, but very sweet.
My only fault is that I try to present the essence of gurbani and in that exercise I had to use the outside subjective dehdhari guru term. Please see the context in which he is telling to his own manh to explore the treasure within and not look outside for subjective understanding.
Sahni Sahib,
Guru Fateh,
Thanks so much for your succulently precise and very thoughtful response to the parrots of the babble who have been trying their utmost in a purposeful manner to not grasp the nuances of our visionary Gurus' message.
Filled with gratitude.
Tejwant Singh
PS- I had no idea that you were being paid by the SPN for your Seva. If that's the case, I want my share too.
Lol fair enough. Yeh we are fools. We're beggers @ His door, for what can we ourselves actually do. Were all baby Sikhs, and we never stop learning n discovering.
The discoveries are infinite but the perfection of the heart is within reach.
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I'm not trying to bicker and it's disappointing that you see it this way. I'll cease and desist trying to talk about this here.
I wasn't speaking about you personally.
There used to be a post about fools who wrangle over meat on this forum. I read it years ago, it went in for years. The same could occur with this topic.
I see that Gurbani isn't easy to decipher for many but if you stop for a moment and truly look to the Guru within (God), all of the answers are there.
My entire family and friendship group was deviod of Sikhs growing up. No-one read Gurbani and I embarked upon the path Alone while everyone around me was busy getting wasted, engaging In rubbish, slandering and gossiping about others, competing with each other etc (Not much has changed.)
I read Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And I sat and meditated,(contemplated on and connected with, learned about, relaxing and feeling peace) on God within. Sometimes I spent hours doing it. I did it while walking, sitting, working, talking.
I learned so much and learned to trust myself, even when everyone was trying to break me, I looked to my Inner Guru, to my Father and sought solace.
Meditating is a vast term, it can mean alot of things at once. Loving someone/ something is meditating on it, thinking about something is meditating on it, feeling something can be meditation. We are in constant samadhi/ meditation, in this show of a world, every Image we meditate on (see) and mediate on too much turning into great desire and attachment.
You can't put logic on that which Is beyond logic. You must simply experience it yourself and feel its gyan.
The reason He says He cannot be known without Love is because he wants us to surpass the Logic of the mind, the Worldly Logic and to Experience Truth.
It's True Unconditional Love. Call it flowery or hippie or whatever, but thats what it is
- May 9, 2006
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.... if you read my post without your antagonistic agenda blinding your vision, you would see that I was referring to Bhai Manmohan Singh Ji's translation on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and the related shabad I posted in full (something you stubbornly refuse to do after so long and despite countless requests to comply with the guidelines you agreed to when you joined) at the end of my post.
Perhaps you should do yourself, and everyone else, a favour by quitting the grumpy old man stuck on repeat routine. If we all work together as a team to change the spirit of SPN's dialogue to be about new topics with inquiring minds instead of attacking each other for the smallest thing, perhaps you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself by entirely misreading my earlier post.
- May 9, 2006
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Thank you for this excellent post!! It's great to start talking about all the different things the English word "meditation" can actually encompass.
When I was new to Sikhi a long time ago, I erroneously understood Sikh meditation in the style of sitting alone in a dark room with eyes closed chanting "Waheguru, Waheguru" to be the crux of Sikh practices. What I came to learn after quite some time that that style of meditation is just one component of Sikh spiritual practice, and isn't even the meaty part, but is a tool for training the mind, and only works in combination with contemplation style meditation on Gurbani, on inner Guru as you kindly put it, and working meditations like seva done with presence and an active practice of remembering "tuhi tuhi", only You. The goal of all this conscious and behavioural training is to have that samaadhi connection 24/7, like you said.
I hope I'm understanding you correctly now. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to elabourate. You've made my day!
Lol great!
First rule is to never lie, not even a white lie. And the laws of Nirboah and Nirvair. He is All so Love All and fear Nothing and no-one.
Be spiritually accepting, some people live their lives one way, others live another.
U lose the laws of nirboah and nirvair and the bhagat is lost.
Bandgi, silencing the 5 thieves, practicing good deeds, not hurting others, not slandering others, refraining from gossip and backtabbing, Practising Truth in Action.
The Bhagat lives Truth, speaks Truth, serves Truth, dies Truth.
All this is meditation on Sat
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Ishna Ji, forgive me for oversighting but how was I to know of the phantom Bhai Manmohan Singh ? Is his name mentioned anywhere in the entire thread ? If so pls show location. Accordingly, I admit I erred on account oversight. But otherwise, pls consider the quibble [showing you incorrect, above] best way forward to address anomaly at hand.
You've definitely done the full SP to grill me so [grumpy old man] well, but it was nice n civil. Coming from a young aspirant as yourself, I feel humble for there is lot of love underneath. I take it constructively and will be more mindful next time we chat.
On a positive note, I see the true Sikh in you emerging. By true Sikh I mean, interpreting ancient scriptures with the same ink with which they were written.
Goodnight
You're cool. The first time I read one of your posts I laughed so much because you reminded me of a friend of mine (young), the best person I know. Your post was very entertaining.
People just seem to get wound up on here at times.
- May 9, 2006
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Please refer to my posts #50 and #51 and note the colon at the end of my sentences. It may be because I put the shabads that came after the colon into quote boxes (to reduce clutter on the page) that you perhaps didn't see them. I'll try to be more clear with my posts in the future to avoid misunderstandings.
Ishna Ji - good morning !Please refer to my posts #50 and #51 and note the colon at the end of my sentences. It may be because I put the shabads that came after the colon into quote boxes (to reduce clutter on the page) that you perhaps didn't see them. I'll try to be more clear with my posts in the future to avoid misunderstandings.
I've just had a peep at posts 50 n 51, no third party Bhai Manmohan Singh found. Never mind - let's move fwd ! In the meantime I'll try my hand at clairvoyance so I'm better equipped to read invisible prints, hey !
Must you know, I never read translations I go directly to SGGSJ, much of which is stored in my memory bank. Yes, when n where it's absolutely necessary to read another's translation I do, but on the whole it's usually the ang that triggers my mind to recall information to the conscious part of the brain from its hidden recesses. I don't wish to sound pompous, but it's all Wahegurus grace.
Must you also know Ishna Ji, it doesn't matter what one writes provided one writes from his/her heart. That way the connection with the "absolute truth" [satnam] is never broken. It is when the mind conjures up self manufactured stuff for ulterior motives or ideals that distances the writer from the true source [mool mantar]. Hence the phraseology manmukh n gurmukh.
I, for one commend you for the connection you have with satnam. It will come to fruition soon for you're slowly ripeing.
Have a good start to the week down under - until then best of everything!
Grumpy old man
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- May 9, 2006
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It's not invisible - it's right here in this thread plainly at post #51. I've taken a screenshot and illustrated the post features so you can rest assured.
I'm not going to stop learning using the English translations when I haven't yet mastered Gurmukhi script or the language and words from multiple languages in which Gurbani is composed. Good on you not needing such a bridge to your learning. The rest of us slow learners will just have to go the long way around, and I'm OK with that.
And now I'll stop harping the point and let the thread get back on topic.
I'm not going to stop learning using the English translations when I haven't yet mastered Gurmukhi script or the language and words from multiple languages in which Gurbani is composed. Good on you not needing such a bridge to your learning. The rest of us slow learners will just have to go the long way around, and I'm OK with that.
And now I'll stop harping the point and let the thread get back on topic.
Please listen to this six minute video and see 5 crore people were blinded by this Mahapurash. Guru Nanak first condition was leave the old baggage then listen your inner voice.
Ishna Ji
Thank you for the enlarged exhibit and the beautiful colour coded cosmetics used to highlight the case in point. This indeed, yields two very useful conclusions:
Good day !
Thank you for the enlarged exhibit and the beautiful colour coded cosmetics used to highlight the case in point. This indeed, yields two very useful conclusions:
- Age is catching up, time to call it a day with young blood and,
- when reading literature from down under use of a magnifying glass and a fine-tooth comb is recommended.
Good day !
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